Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
I would say that missing data is a form of error in OSM and I have used notes to indicate such things before. The only problem with adding things based only on notes is that we don't know the source or accuracy of the information, especially from anonymous notes. We get a lot of notes from Craigslist. (anything you see that starts with bounds:) Some of them have an address in them but are often a couple blocks away from the indicated street because the user didn't take time to refine the marker position. That is kind of useless. On the other hand, I have added some things like gas stations from notes. If I can see a gas station roof in aerial imagery and the note says it is a BP gas station then I will add that. And of course there are often notes that just indicate that we are missing a new neighborhood. Here in the US I can sometimes fill in the missing roads from TIGER data. Toby On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:34 PM, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alex, Good question and I have since figured out how to access notes I have touched/resolved to demonstrate my point. My treatment of notes is probably the problem. :) I see this note [1] as being a legitimate use case for them in that there used to be a roundabout there and not the intersection has been reconfigured (ie. OSM is in error) I see this note [2] as being an illegitimate use case for them. (ie. OSM is NOT in error rather OSM is missing this data). You can see how I have tried to encourage the user to engage with OSM. Note [3] is similar to Note [2] but my treatment has been to resolve with the comment I have made (At the detriment of a future OSM editor?). This is one of my earlier note exercises. [1]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/6598 [2]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/118639 [3]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/99910 I think the notes are great and I've used them in areas where I have passed through and noted obvious errors for local mappers. With the 4sq channel though I'm wondering if my logic and subsequent action to resolve is too literal and I should leave Notes of Type [2] / [3] in place. Is this the intent of Notes moving forward? Cheers, Jason On 28 March 2014 13:05, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Hey Jason - I'm not sure I follow as Foursquare's page says: If you just want something small fixed but don't have the time to sign up and edit, it's easy to add a note. Which seems to be in line with how you're using notes (reporting errors). What am I missing? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Hi, IMHO missing stuff is some kind of error and it might be correct to store that information in a note. But it's more complex than just add a note and we'll do the rest. Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Adding a note that something is missing in some place is valid, if I know that there's something missing, but don't exactly know where it is (only very rough location, only know that there's one shop missing, but don't know any details yet,...). Here the note is a temporal thing to be replaced after an on-the-ground visit. Adding a note where adding the feature itself is too complex for my own experience (e.g. holes in buildings missing (multipolygons), route relations with missing detours...) is valid. What's not wanted - but better than nothing - are examples like the ones you refer to in your later mail: here is address x, here's my business: foo-store, ..., these should be as simple to be added directly as to add the note, and therefore yes, it would be better the people would add them directly to the osm database instead. On the other hand it depends... OSM has lot's of contributors joining osm, adding their own business as a single-node item, and never doing more. If we motivate these people to add more stuff around, e.g. to improve routing to their business, to get a better looking map around their business or something like that it's great, but if we have more mappers that don't come back at all, why should that be preferred over adding a note, that there's a business missing? I prefer a note over a florist mapped as supermarket, as it's easier to solve the note (if all necessary information is included) than to find errors in wrong data like that. tl;dr: it's not as easy as to say register and add yourself, it's more complex, but missing stuff is an error in OSM, something that has to be fixed and in general *might be* valid use cases for an osm note. regards Peter Am 28.03.2014 03:50, schrieb Jason Ward: Hi Team, I've been doing some SuperUser edits in 4sq recently and poked my head into the OSM page they hold on their site (https://foursquare.com/about/osm) and its slightly at odds with the messaging I have been using when resolving notes I have deemed as irrelevant to use and I thought I'd clarify with this group to see whether I need to: a) Adjust my messaging when resolving notes [1]; OR b) Don't resolve notes that indicate something should be added or is an ommission; OR c) Ask 4sq to amend their copy to better reflect OSM Note usage. So. The OSM Wiki [2] for notes indicates in its first para that notes are for errors and I have taken that quite literally when assessing notes and in resolving something that is missing from OSM I have indicated that notes are for errors. My behaviour may be having a negative effect on these note authors coming from 4sq so I'm keen to ensure I don't unecessarily turn people away from OSM if I shouldn't be. Any thoughts here? Is the first para in the OSM Wiki at odds with the Dos and Don't section on the same page? One suggests errors and the other suggest errors and missing information. [1]: I usually resolve Notes with Business Details suggesting that they are for Errors rather than Ommissions. [2]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Notes Cheers, Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
If you create a new note at openstreetmap.org, you get a prompt that begins: 'Spotted a mistake or something missing?' So I think your understanding of what is a valid note is at fault. -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Err, some thoughts after some heavy note-closing in France. Le 28/03/2014 09:14, Peter Wendorff a écrit : Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing /my/ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot...) Adding a note that something is missing in some place is valid, if I know that there's something missing, but don't exactly know where it is (only very rough location, only know that there's one shop missing, but don't know any details yet,...). Here the note is a temporal thing to be replaced after an on-the-ground visit. Sure, but I've never seen an answer to a note asking for re-surveying, excepted for the creator when asked for details. In my opinion, just congesting the database. Don't want to go too fast, as I presenting some work done on notes in France at SotM-FR next week-end, but forecast some additional info on my diary page afterwards. JB. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Perhaps it is because English is not my native language but I understand a Note to be a comment, whether about missing data or wrong data or in fact, as I've sometimes done, a note about imagery missing for a future imagery refresh. I mapped my hometown last summer and one part of it was missing good imagery, so I added a note there (a cluster of 3 newly built streets) which was something like imagery missing - resurvey when updated which I then resolved a few weeks back when I noticed the imagery had been updated for that part. Thus these notes form a sort of to-do list where the doing can't be done at this point in time. It is quite curious to name them Notes when they are then understood to be Errors. Or are they Notes? --Jói Þann 28.03.2014 08:32, JB reit: Err, some thoughts after some heavy note-closing in France. Le 28/03/2014 09:14, Peter Wendorff a écrit : Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing _my_ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot…) Adding a note that something is missing in some place is valid, if I know that there's something missing, but don't exactly know where it is (only very rough location, only know that there's one shop missing, but don't know any details yet,...). Here the note is a temporal thing to be replaced after an on-the-ground visit. Sure, but I've never seen an answer to a note asking for re-surveying, excepted for the creator when asked for details. In my opinion, just congesting the database. Don't want to go too fast, as I presenting some work done on notes in France at SotM-FR next week-end, but forecast some additional info on my diary page afterwards. JB. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
JB wrote: Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing /my/ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot...) It's supported by the API. When I fetch notes for an area that I'm going to be in (https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/Notes01), if I only want my own, I use it. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Didn't know that. Is it documented somewhere? Not on the wiki about the api (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Map_Notes_API). Good to know, anyway, but still unusable for the basic contributor (even I would not use it easily). JB. Le 28/03/2014 10:25, SomeoneElse a écrit : JB wrote: Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing /my/ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot...) It's supported by the API. When I fetch notes for an area that I'm going to be in (https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/Notes01), if I only want my own, I use it. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
JB wrote: Didn't know that. Is it documented somewhere? Not on the wiki about the api (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Map_Notes_API). Good to know, anyway, but still unusable for the basic contributor (even I would not use it easily). JB. Sorry - my fault - it's not. I had to add support for that separately. (must remember not to post to lists before first coffee of the day!) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Well, it's not errors only, but notes of course. My argument goes into: it might be useful to add a note *about* an error, too. It's best to fix errors immediately, of course; but it's better to document them for later to fix than to do nothing and forget about it. Therefore notes are like an issue tracker, containing tasks to be done (like resurvey at arrival of new imagery), bugs to fix (like shop has been closed; intersection is a roundabout now,...) and enhancements (here the business X is missing). Anything fits into notes as it would fit into an issue tracker; but like in an issue tracker it's best t solve issues directly, which might even make opening the issue in the tracker (opening the note in osm) obsolete at all. The Foursquare (and similar) case for trivial notes like business missing here is address X is like a typo in a UI translation file of a software: it is more easy to fix it than to file an issue - at least, when you have an account already and know how to use the tools. Our own todo list is perfect to add to the notes - but it requires to write notes in a way that others can understand, because it's a PUBLIC issue tracker. The same way I can add my personal tasks in a software project to the global issue tracker I can do it with notes, too - it must be clear what is to be done, and it should not be more work with an issue tracker than it would be without. regards Peter Am 28.03.2014 10:03, schrieb Jóhannes Birgir Jensson: Perhaps it is because English is not my native language but I understand a Note to be a comment, whether about missing data or wrong data or in fact, as I've sometimes done, a note about imagery missing for a future imagery refresh. I mapped my hometown last summer and one part of it was missing good imagery, so I added a note there (a cluster of 3 newly built streets) which was something like imagery missing - resurvey when updated which I then resolved a few weeks back when I noticed the imagery had been updated for that part. Thus these notes form a sort of to-do list where the doing can't be done at this point in time. It is quite curious to name them Notes when they are then understood to be Errors. Or are they Notes? --Jói Þann 28.03.2014 08:32, JB reit: Err, some thoughts after some heavy note-closing in France. Le 28/03/2014 09:14, Peter Wendorff a écrit : Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing _my_ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot…) Adding a note that something is missing in some place is valid, if I know that there's something missing, but don't exactly know where it is (only very rough location, only know that there's one shop missing, but don't know any details yet,...). Here the note is a temporal thing to be replaced after an on-the-ground visit. Sure, but I've never seen an answer to a note asking for re-surveying, excepted for the creator when asked for details. In my opinion, just congesting the database. Don't want to go too fast, as I presenting some work done on notes in France at SotM-FR next week-end, but forecast some additional info on my diary page afterwards. JB. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
On 2014-03-28 08:32, JB wrote: Err, some thoughts after some heavy note-closing in France. Le 28/03/2014 09:14, Peter Wendorff a écrit : Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing /my/ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot…) The wiki page says Don't use it to put your personal notes here. Notes should be of wider interest and make sense to other mappers. So you can add notes as reminders for yourself, so long as they are also helpful for other mappers. I have added a few notes as reminders for things to check. Sometimes I get back there to survey it myself, sometimes another mapper fixes it first. It doesn't really matter who fixes it, its still improving the map. To see a list of your notes, go to your user page on openstreetmap.org, and click the link for My Notes. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Ok, as long as it can be understood by anybody. It is not always the case. As for the page on your profile, have you ever tried to use it after contributing to more than 20 notes? 50 notes? 1000 notes? Very rapidly unusable. JB. Le 28/03/2014 12:59, Craig Wallace a écrit : On 2014-03-28 08:32, JB wrote: Err, some thoughts after some heavy note-closing in France. Le 28/03/2014 09:14, Peter Wendorff a écrit : Adding a note even as a personal note for adding it later is a valid action, if e.g. don't have the time to do more now or don't have an editor at hand - provided I'm going to resolve that myself later. Dos and don'ts section does not validate this in the wiki : « Don't use it to put your personal notes here. ». Rather use personal stuff like gpx files or whatever. Many personal notes just get forgotten (where is this filtering tool showing /my/ notes? Ha, doesn't exist, I forgot…) The wiki page says Don't use it to put your personal notes here. Notes should be of wider interest and make sense to other mappers. So you can add notes as reminders for yourself, so long as they are also helpful for other mappers. I have added a few notes as reminders for things to check. Sometimes I get back there to survey it myself, sometimes another mapper fixes it first. It doesn't really matter who fixes it, its still improving the map. To see a list of your notes, go to your user page on openstreetmap.org, and click the link for My Notes. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Hi Team, I've been doing some SuperUser edits in 4sq recently and poked my head into the OSM page they hold on their site (https://foursquare.com/about/osm) and its slightly at odds with the messaging I have been using when resolving notes I have deemed as irrelevant to use and I thought I'd clarify with this group to see whether I need to: a) Adjust my messaging when resolving notes [1]; OR b) Don't resolve notes that indicate something should be added or is an ommission; OR c) Ask 4sq to amend their copy to better reflect OSM Note usage. So. The OSM Wiki [2] for notes indicates in its first para that notes are for errors and I have taken that quite literally when assessing notes and in resolving something that is missing from OSM I have indicated that notes are for errors. My behaviour may be having a negative effect on these note authors coming from 4sq so I'm keen to ensure I don't unecessarily turn people away from OSM if I shouldn't be. Any thoughts here? Is the first para in the OSM Wiki at odds with the Dos and Don't section on the same page? One suggests errors and the other suggest errors and missing information. [1]: I usually resolve Notes with Business Details suggesting that they are for Errors rather than Ommissions. [2]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Notes Cheers, Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Hey Jason - I'm not sure I follow as Foursquare's page says: If you just want something small fixed but don't have the time to sign up and edit, it's easy to add a note. Which seems to be in line with how you're using notes (reporting errors). What am I missing? On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Team, I've been doing some SuperUser edits in 4sq recently and poked my head into the OSM page they hold on their site ( https://foursquare.com/about/osm) and its slightly at odds with the messaging I have been using when resolving notes I have deemed as irrelevant to use and I thought I'd clarify with this group to see whether I need to: a) Adjust my messaging when resolving notes [1]; OR b) Don't resolve notes that indicate something should be added or is an ommission; OR c) Ask 4sq to amend their copy to better reflect OSM Note usage. So. The OSM Wiki [2] for notes indicates in its first para that notes are for errors and I have taken that quite literally when assessing notes and in resolving something that is missing from OSM I have indicated that notes are for errors. My behaviour may be having a negative effect on these note authors coming from 4sq so I'm keen to ensure I don't unecessarily turn people away from OSM if I shouldn't be. Any thoughts here? Is the first para in the OSM Wiki at odds with the Dos and Don't section on the same page? One suggests errors and the other suggest errors and missing information. [1]: I usually resolve Notes with Business Details suggesting that they are for Errors rather than Ommissions. [2]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Notes Cheers, Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare and OSM Note Instructions
Hi Alex, Good question and I have since figured out how to access notes I have touched/resolved to demonstrate my point. My treatment of notes is probably the problem. :) I see this note [1] as being a legitimate use case for them in that there used to be a roundabout there and not the intersection has been reconfigured (ie. OSM is in error) I see this note [2] as being an illegitimate use case for them. (ie. OSM is NOT in error rather OSM is missing this data). You can see how I have tried to encourage the user to engage with OSM. Note [3] is similar to Note [2] but my treatment has been to resolve with the comment I have made (At the detriment of a future OSM editor?). This is one of my earlier note exercises. [1]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/6598 [2]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/118639 [3]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/99910 I think the notes are great and I've used them in areas where I have passed through and noted obvious errors for local mappers. With the 4sq channel though I'm wondering if my logic and subsequent action to resolve is too literal and I should leave Notes of Type [2] / [3] in place. Is this the intent of Notes moving forward? Cheers, Jason On 28 March 2014 13:05, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Hey Jason - I'm not sure I follow as Foursquare's page says: If you just want something small fixed but don't have the time to sign up and edit, it's easy to add a note. Which seems to be in line with how you're using notes (reporting errors). What am I missing? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
There will probably be a heads up immediately before work on the DB starts. If you are concerned about the effects of the change, it would be best to simply stop consuming the diffs at that point in time and reimport the planet after the changeover, when you feel that is appropriate (note: that at least for a clean change, you should take a reimport in to account anyway). There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching out to data consumers and keeping them informed (except the couple of large ones that we naturally know about). If you are such a data consumer I would suggest at least subscribing to the announce mailing list. Simon Am 07.03.2012 08:40, schrieb Stephan Knauss: On 07.03.2012 05:23, Steve Bennett wrote: 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the self-imposed deadline of April 1 Would it be even more clever for map tile providers like mapquest so simply stop updates for a week (or probably serve static tiles as of march 31) until the ODbL data reached a level the tile users are happy with? It is the decision of tile providers how fast they update... Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: If this actually happens, it will be by far the stupidest thing OSM has ever done. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase about database rebuilding? Since I'm getting some off-list snark about this, let me make clear: 1) I'm not arguing against the licence change 2) I am participating in remapping 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the self-imposed deadline of April 1 Yeah... the timing of this is shaping up to be very unfortunate. We've had several high profile sites switch to using OSM since the beginning of the year and all the PR that came along with that has put a bright light on the project. On the other hand, this license change has been ongoing since before I joined the project and drawing it out even longer is going to be painful too... At least there is steady improvement: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Steve Bennett wrote: I can't speak for other countries, but in my city (Melbourne, population 4 million, second biggest in Australia), parts of the largest freeway, right near the centre of town, are currently on the chopping board. That's a lot worse than any other everyday missing roads, holes etc. Yup. Australia and Poland are much, much worse affected than any other country. There are local circumstances which you know already. That isn't at all representative of the wider impact. In the UK the main effect is going to be that a few towns (such as Weybridge) drop down, for a couple of months, to the quality level of less well-mapped towns (such as Banbury or Rochdale) - which is a shame but not cataclysmic. Our principal road network will not be affected. Britain is roughly representative of the worldwide situation (odbl.poole.ch reports 97.6% highways 'safe' in the UK, 97.5% worldwide). Given that we still have over three weeks to go; that the pace of remapping is picking up; and that there are no doubt acceptances still to come, the picture outside Australia and Poland is pretty optimistic. Foursquare are clearly pretty smart people - you don't get to be a $600m business otherwise ;) . I am sure they, and others, did at least a trivial level of research before switching to OSM. If they, or any other tile users, are concerned about the licence change, there are several options open to them: stop taking updates for a week or two, perhaps, or continue to serve pre-changeover tiles for Australia (there's no licensing reason not to) until the datasets approach parity. AIUI, and I stand to be corrected, Foursquare's tiles are actually prerendered rather than being rendered on demand, so this is particularly easy for them. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/FourSquare-and-OSM-tp5531933p5543677.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
An interesting article on the value (or issues) of FourSquare
generated spatial data:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/06/spatial_junk/
Joseph
On 5 March 2012 11:22, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
In their blog they made some cryptic comments about helping OSM with data...
No idea what they actually meant though, could just be helping direct users
to OSM, could be employing people to map stuff... who knows.
Bob
if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; }
On 5 Mar 2012, at 11:17, Joseph Reeves wrote:
I think they're just using tiles for mapping background on their
(not-mobile) website. No api, no POIs, no data sharing, just raster
images. Having said that, I can't remember reading anything proper
about this and appear to have learnt it all through osmosis.
Cheers, Joseph
On 5 March 2012 10:59, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
mmm i want to know deeply about POI inside 4SQ and OSM, will 4SQ share with
OSM database for POI?
F
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users
type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information
there.
Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Replying to a few messages at once here: Toby Murray: On the other hand, this license change has been ongoing since before I joined the project and drawing it out even longer is going to be painful too... IMHO, the pain is over and done with. The decision is made, and the decliners have, by and large, moved on. So we're back into the state of moving forward productively. Moving that deadline is not delaying the inevitable, it's reducing the impact of the not-inevitable. At least there is steady improvement: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html Excellent. Data. The slope of the graph looks fairly constant. It's easy to see that the data won't be anything like ready in two weeks. Maybe 20 weeks. Richard Fairhurst: I am sure they [foursquare], and others, did at least a trivial level of research before switching to OSM. If they, or any other tile users, are concerned about the licence change, there are several options open to them: Yeah. I don't know how MapBox works exactly, but I emailed MapBox and their response was they actually still haven't decided what to do about the licence change, and are keeping their options open. Simon Poole: There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching out to data consumers and keeping them informed I was surprised that I couldn't find anything much about the April 1 cutover on osmfoundation.org. Certainly no recent announcements at all. wiki.openstreetmap.org makes no mention of it at all, apart from the banner link to osmfoundation. So, updating the blog would be a good start. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Le 07/03/2012 22:38, Steve Bennett a écrit : Simon Poole: There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching out to data consumers and keeping them informed I was surprised that I couldn't find anything much about the April 1 cutover on osmfoundation.org. Certainly no recent announcements at all. wiki.openstreetmap.org makes no mention of it at all, apart from the banner link to osmfoundation. So, updating the blog would be a good start. A banner on www.openstreetmap.org and the wiki would be a good second step ! Yves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
So at the risk of pointing out the obvious: aren't we about to start purging data from decliners? Last I heard, we're begin[ning] the process of database re-building and hope to complete by 2012-04-01. Are we about to start inflicting maps with big holes, missing roads etc on these big sites that have finally made the decision to start trusting OSM with their core business? Or will the intermediary service provided by MapBox etc somehow protect them? Discuss. Steve On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? F ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Or will the intermediary service provided by MapBox etc somehow protect them? MapQuest is updated minutely? So changes to the database are going to be felt by FourSquare, Nestoria, et al pretty immediately. This is pretty off topic, of course... Presumably the good folks behind the license change will say that any short-term damage to OSM caused by removing data is outweighed by the benefits of a new license; the ODbL even, possibly, makes data exchange with these 3rd parties more secure in the long term. That's the optimistic way of putting it. You could be a pessimist and say that OSM data is already hugely inconsistent and full of holes, missing roads and imaginary data. I guess it just depends on how you judge the contents of your glass (or mailing list). Cheers, Joseph On 6 March 2012 22:15, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: So at the risk of pointing out the obvious: aren't we about to start purging data from decliners? Last I heard, we're begin[ning] the process of database re-building and hope to complete by 2012-04-01. Are we about to start inflicting maps with big holes, missing roads etc on these big sites that have finally made the decision to start trusting OSM with their core business? Or will the intermediary service provided by MapBox etc somehow protect them? Discuss. Steve On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? F ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote: Presumably the good folks behind the license change will say that any short-term damage to OSM caused by removing data is outweighed by the benefits of a new license; the ODbL even, possibly, makes data exchange with these 3rd parties more secure in the long term. Ouch. So after years of laboring in the background, we finally make a splash on the world scene, getting picked up by some pretty prominent sites. Weeks later, we start removing large slabs of data, because of an arcane licensing debate that no one outside OSM gives a toss about. If this actually happens, it will be by far the stupidest thing OSM has ever done. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase about database rebuilding? That's the optimistic way of putting it. You could be a pessimist and say that OSM data is already hugely inconsistent and full of holes, missing roads and imaginary data. I can't speak for other countries, but in my city (Melbourne, population 4 million, second biggest in Australia), parts of the largest freeway, right near the centre of town, are currently on the chopping board. That's a lot worse than any other everyday missing roads, holes etc. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: If this actually happens, it will be by far the stupidest thing OSM has ever done. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase about database rebuilding? Since I'm getting some off-list snark about this, let me make clear: 1) I'm not arguing against the licence change 2) I am participating in remapping 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the self-imposed deadline of April 1 Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
2012/3/7 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: If this actually happens, it will be by far the stupidest thing OSM has ever done. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase about database rebuilding? Since I'm getting some off-list snark about this, let me make clear: 1) I'm not arguing against the licence change 2) I am participating in remapping 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the self-imposed deadline of April 1 I agree with you. The license change is ok but: the big sites (Foursquare) must have the possibility to use the CC-BY-SA database also after the 1st April, till we have remapped almost all lacking data. I don't know if it's possible, but new contributions can be backported to the old database? Steve Regards, Stefano ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On 07.03.2012 05:23, Steve Bennett wrote: 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the self-imposed deadline of April 1 Would it be even more clever for map tile providers like mapquest so simply stop updates for a week (or probably serve static tiles as of march 31) until the ODbL data reached a level the tile users are happy with? It is the decision of tile providers how fast they update... Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information there. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
mmm i want to know deeply about POI inside 4SQ and OSM, will 4SQ share with OSM database for POI? F On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information there. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
In their blog they made some cryptic comments about helping OSM with data... No
idea what they actually meant though, could just be helping direct users to
OSM, could be employing people to map stuff... who knows.
Bob
if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; }
On 5 Mar 2012, at 11:17, Joseph Reeves wrote:
I think they're just using tiles for mapping background on their
(not-mobile) website. No api, no POIs, no data sharing, just raster
images. Having said that, I can't remember reading anything proper
about this and appear to have learnt it all through osmosis.
Cheers, Joseph
On 5 March 2012 10:59, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
mmm i want to know deeply about POI inside 4SQ and OSM, will 4SQ share with
OSM database for POI?
F
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users
type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information
there.
Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote: In their blog they made some cryptic comments about helping OSM with data... No idea what they actually meant though, could just be helping direct users to OSM, could be employing people to map stuff... who knows. They sprinkled this URL in the comments a couple of times. I'm not sure what they're doing with submissions though: http://support.foursquare.com/entries/21066492-improving-our-map-coverage At one point it was suggested to let 4sq users say this venue isn't on the map or something like that to which I replied that such reports could maybe go to OpenStreetBugs. This was responded to positively by one of the 4sq guys. They definitely seem to want to help but haven't said much about what that will look like. I'm guessing they haven't really hammered out all the details themselves yet so I guess we'll wait and see. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? F ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
Frousquare is not using any OSM API. They are just using map tiles provided by MapBox with the leaflet library to display it in the browser. Toby On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
does this mean that OSM API is not usefull for integration? F On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Frousquare is not using any OSM API. They are just using map tiles provided by MapBox with the leaflet library to display it in the browser. Toby On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
The OSM API(s) are certainly useful for integration, but a different kind - if they were pulling small chunks of data, etc., then they'd be using an API, but at this point they're mainly using tiles. More to come, but at this point the process looks like OSM Planet + update chunks - TileMill rendering - MapBox Hosting - Foursquare. Tom On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: does this mean that OSM API is not usefull for integration? F On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Frousquare is not using any OSM API. They are just using map tiles provided by MapBox with the leaflet library to display it in the browser. Toby On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
i wish OSM can provide like what GMAP API can :0 rather using this model. API wrapper to TILE will be interesting F On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:03 AM, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote: The OSM API(s) are certainly useful for integration, but a different kind - if they were pulling small chunks of data, etc., then they'd be using an API, but at this point they're mainly using tiles. More to come, but at this point the process looks like OSM Planet + update chunks - TileMill rendering - MapBox Hosting - Foursquare. Tom On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: does this mean that OSM API is not usefull for integration? F On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.comwrote: Frousquare is not using any OSM API. They are just using map tiles provided by MapBox with the leaflet library to display it in the browser. Toby On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: hi all we have great news that foursquare using OSM now anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ? the ruby one? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On 02/03/12 22:07, Frans Thamura wrote: i wish OSM can provide like what GMAP API can :0 rather using this model. API wrapper to TILE will be interesting I think you are confusing what Google call their API with what OSM call our API. They are not the same thing. What Google call their API is JavaScript to display a map on a web page as a series of tiles. OSM use open tools like OpenLayers or Leaflet to do the same job. OSM API retrieves and updates the data that is later used to create the tiles. Of course you cannot access the data Google has. These are very different things. If you want to display OSM map tiles on a web page take a look at OpenLayers or Leaflet. You can see more about this in http://switch2osm.org/ -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
On 2 March 2012 23:00, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: does this mean that OSM API is not usefull for integration? What Toby says is they don't need to use the API. They source the tiles from mapbox, who in turn use the OSM planet files or diffs as their interface to OSM. And they use leaflet as their javascript thing. The OSM toolchain, like Unix, is naturally made up of small utilities each of which solves one problem at a time. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM
hehe, i see my self was brainwashed by API jargon :0 F On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:51 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.comwrote: On 2 March 2012 23:00, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: does this mean that OSM API is not usefull for integration? What Toby says is they don't need to use the API. They source the tiles from mapbox, who in turn use the OSM planet files or diffs as their interface to OSM. And they use leaflet as their javascript thing. The OSM toolchain, like Unix, is naturally made up of small utilities each of which solves one problem at a time. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
