Re: [OSM-talk] Changing Bing to bing

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 6 March 2017 5:41:01 PM GMT+01:00, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>On 06/03/2017 07:32, Werner Poppele wrote:
>
>  I'd also suggest that
>whatever it is in JOSM that's recommending this be changed so as not
>to.  A couple of times in the past I've suggested that JOSM's rules be
>relaxed in this way and I've always found the JOSM developers to be
>extremely helpful with this sort of issue.

Done: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/14554

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Re: [OSM-talk] Changing Bing to bing

[Martin Koppenhöfer]

> On 07 Mar 2017, at 09:44, molto...@gmail.com wrote:
> FWIW I've alway ignored JOSM's "Bing" -> "bing" warning and would be glad to 
> see it removed, or reversed and downgraded to notice.
> 
> While we do have a "standard values should be lowercase" best-practice in 
> OSM, I don't think this should apply to source tags except maybe "survey" and 
> "local_knowledge” :


note that “local knowledge” comes in a series of sauces, local knowledge, 
local_knowledge, Local knowledge, …
IMHO there doesn’t seem need to unify any of those. You can easily unify all 
spaces and underscores and capitalisation downstream for making statistics or 
similar.

FWIW, personally I prefer “Bing aerial imagery” over “Bing”, as the latter is 
not sufficiently accurate (it’s the name of a search engine). Seems more to 
type, but autocompletion makes this difference almost vanish. Looking at 
taginfo, there are many others who prefer being more explicit.


> * Most source values, like Bing, are proper names and capitalisation matters.


according to our contract with them, they might be called “MICROSOFT® BING™ 
MAPS IMAGERTY SERVICE” (sic! MS managed to get a typo in the contract headline)
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Bing_license.pdf

And maybe interesting for some, you may not use them anyway if you are editing 
osm in a commercial context.

There also appear to be very few changesets based on other Bing maps sources 
that are explicitly forbidden and these contributions should eventually be 
redacted:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/source=bing%20Bird's%20eye
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/source=bing%20bird's%20eye%20view



> * "Bing" is twice as frequent as "bing" on taginfo, so suggesting the later 
> goes against the general trend.


+1

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Changing Bing to bing

[moltonel]

On 6 March 2017 5:41:01 PM GMT+01:00, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>1) If JOSM is really recommending that you change "source=Bing" to 
>"source=bing" or vice versa then I'd suggest that you ignore it. With 
>both "Bing" and "bing" it's pretty obvious what the source is and not 
>worth "editing" lots of objects to change it.  I'd also suggest that 
>whatever it is in JOSM that's recommending this be changed so as not 
>to.  A couple of times in the past I've suggested that JOSM's rules be 
>relaxed in this way and I've always found the JOSM developers to be 
>extremely helpful with this sort of issue.


FWIW I've alway ignored JOSM's "Bing" -> "bing" warning and would be glad to 
see it removed, or reversed and downgraded to notice.

While we do have a "standard values should be lowercase" best-practice in OSM, 
I don't think this should apply to source tags except maybe "survey" and 
"local_knowledge" :
* Most source values, like Bing, are proper names and capitalisation matters.
* Exact capitalisation is often expected/demanded by soures which allow 
importing into OSM.
* There's no reason to treat Bing specially, yet I don't think that JOSM warns 
about "Mapbox" or "Mapillay".
* "Bing" is twice as frequent as "bing" on taginfo, so suggesting the later 
goes against the general trend.


-- 
Vdp
Sent from a phone.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Changing Bing to bing

[Andy Townsend]

On 06/03/2017 07:32, Werner Poppele wrote:


before uploading data to OSM, JOSM showed an error / warning message 
about the "suspect" writing of "Bing". That was the reason for 
changing "Bing" to "bing". 


Hi Werner,

I'm guessing that the context of this message is changeset discussion 
comments such as on here:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/46520040

I think its worth making a couple of points:

1) If JOSM is really recommending that you change "source=Bing" to 
"source=bing" or vice versa then I'd suggest that you ignore it. With 
both "Bing" and "bing" it's pretty obvious what the source is and not 
worth "editing" lots of objects to change it.  I'd also suggest that 
whatever it is in JOSM that's recommending this be changed so as not 
to.  A couple of times in the past I've suggested that JOSM's rules be 
relaxed in this way and I've always found the JOSM developers to be 
extremely helpful with this sort of issue.


2) The fact that you're replying here suggests that you might be trying 
to reply to a changeset discussion; so it's perhaps worth explaining 
what's happening how those work.


When someone adds a comment to the discussion on a changeset, you'll get 
an email about it.  Unlike with OSM mapper-to-mapper messages, you can't 
just reply and have that reply go back to the person who sent it.  You 
need to click on the link in the message that takes you to the changeset 
and login to OSM (if you're not already).  Then you can type your 
comments in the text box and click "comment" which will add your comment 
to the discussion.


You can use one of Pascal Neis' tools to see who's commented on your 
changesets if you know your userid; the example for mine would be 
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=61942 .


Best Regards,

Andy

PS: Obviously I'm assuming that you're the same Werner that made that 
"Bing" change in Ireland; my apologies if I'm getting confused by 
different people called Werner editing using the Bing imagery as a 
background.




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