Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:07:45 + (GMT), Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com You make a valid point, but the instant reaction of a few people I showed openstreetmap.org to in Australia was oh a map of Europe/UK. It was only after a bit of scrolling/panning that they got the idea, it was a bit like Google Maps but with different colours. Obviously after much ranting on my part they 'got it' but if I hadn't been there, they would have looked at the map, and surfed onto another site. That's exactly why I think the front page needs to really highlight more than the slippy map, which just says we're Google maps with different colours (and with gaps, slooo search and no obvious way to send a link with a marker). It's funny how a lot of people just ignore most of the UI elements on a web page and stick to what looks like the main content. We've learned to ignore adverts, menus we probably don't need, etc. The idea that many people will understand OpenStreetMap by seeing the map, noticing the edit link and maybe signing up, or read and understand the text on the left, or following a link to Help/Wiki and navigating through the tremendously confusing pages, is a bit fanciful. People are different; some like text, others like pictures, and those we can't help much with a web page like sounds and touchy-feely learning. The least we could do is give stronger visual clues to the distinctiveness of OSM, which so far the 3 column layout does better than any other suggestions I've read about so far. Regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Free-thinking from ignorance of how practical it would be for the developer... Maybe one way of foregrounding OSM's data-richness would be to have access to some of this detail - and ideally an edit option (just the tags for that area/way/node) - if you click on something. This takes you from I can see it to I know what it is to I could change it in the minimum number of steps. You could go further - shift click to add a new point (at high zoom levels), perhaps. Richard On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:07:45 + (GMT), Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com You make a valid point, but the instant reaction of a few people I showed openstreetmap.org to in Australia was oh a map of Europe/UK. It was only after a bit of scrolling/panning that they got the idea, it was a bit like Google Maps but with different colours. Obviously after much ranting on my part they 'got it' but if I hadn't been there, they would have looked at the map, and surfed onto another site. That's exactly why I think the front page needs to really highlight more than the slippy map, which just says we're Google maps with different colours (and with gaps, slooo search and no obvious way to send a link with a marker). It's funny how a lot of people just ignore most of the UI elements on a web page and stick to what looks like the main content. We've learned to ignore adverts, menus we probably don't need, etc. The idea that many people will understand OpenStreetMap by seeing the map, noticing the edit link and maybe signing up, or read and understand the text on the left, or following a link to Help/Wiki and navigating through the tremendously confusing pages, is a bit fanciful. People are different; some like text, others like pictures, and those we can't help much with a web page like sounds and touchy-feely learning. The least we could do is give stronger visual clues to the distinctiveness of OSM, which so far the 3 column layout does better than any other suggestions I've read about so far. Regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
You're correct. Everybody knows it should centre on Dublin... k. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: It's just the Brits trying to re-establish their imperial dominance over the world. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: On 17 Jun 2009, at 18:17, Joe Richards wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? It will default to the following if nothing else works (from url, cookie, user home location, session cookie, and GeoIP) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1lon=-0.1zoom=5 The code of the algorithm is at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/app/views/site/index.html.erb#L55 Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://short.ie/savenenaghhospital/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com: On Jun 18, 2009, at 3:07 AM, Joe Richards wrote: Maybe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=0lon=-0zoom=2 would be more diplomatic, but then we should be using a map that did not make the Uk, India, Brazil and New Zealand all the same size. snip Maybe we should be using a projection whose critical data-preserving quality is the number of OSM contributors in the area. Don't like the look of the map?? Edit it and mark your home! You just end up with a very big map of germany :-) Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Dave Stubbsosm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk wrote: 2009/6/18 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com: On Jun 18, 2009, at 3:07 AM, Joe Richards wrote: Maybe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=0lon=-0zoom=2 would be more diplomatic, but then we should be using a map that did not make the Uk, India, Brazil and New Zealand all the same size. snip Maybe we should be using a projection whose critical data-preserving quality is the number of OSM contributors in the area. Don't like the look of the map?? Edit it and mark your home! You just end up with a very big map of germany :-) like this one? http://blog.cloudmade.com/2008/11/07/wheres-interesting/ cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK.I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 17 Jun 2009, at 18:17, Joe Richards wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? It will default to the following if nothing else works (from url, cookie, user home location, session cookie, and GeoIP) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1lon=-0.1zoom=5 The code of the algorithm is at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/app/views/site/index.html.erb#L55 Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
It's just the Brits trying to re-establish their imperial dominance over the world. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote: On 17 Jun 2009, at 18:17, Joe Richards wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? It will default to the following if nothing else works (from url, cookie, user home location, session cookie, and GeoIP) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1lon=-0.1zoom=5 The code of the algorithm is at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/app/views/site/index.html.erb#L55 Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/17 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com: It's just the Brits trying to re-establish their imperial dominance over the world. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: On 17 Jun 2009, at 18:17, Joe Richards wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? It will default to the following if nothing else works (from url, cookie, user home location, session cookie, and GeoIP) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1lon=-0.1zoom=5 The code of the algorithm is at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/app/views/site/index.html.erb#L55 Shaun Maybe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=0lon=-0zoom=2 would be more diplomatic, but then we should be using a map that did not make the Uk, India, Brazil and New Zealand all the same size. We should at least have the option of which projection is used, maybe some kind of menu. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Wednesday 17 Jun 2009 19:19:20 Eric Wolf wrote: It's just the Brits trying to re-establish their imperial dominance over the world. I'll submit a suggestion on trac for the appropriate changes to the stylesheets: http://tinyurl.com/ns8852 Regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/three.jpg I don't find that too bad actually. But it has no map on the first page. I vehemently stated that we're about data, not about slippy maps, in the talk-de discussion; however we also need to show off. Ah yeah, those were the days when we didn't have a reliably working map on the front page, so we were looking for alternatives (you can just make out the map image is the old linework-on-landsat version. But that's not an issue any more. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Ah yeah, those were the days when we didn't have a reliably working map on the front page, so we were looking for alternatives (you can just make out the map image is the old linework-on-landsat version. But that's not an issue any more. Well, but it is an issue that the map we show off now, is not exactly feature rich (plain text: is nothing to show off). So I think the discussion is warranted to either add more bliing bling to the map, or give it a less dominant status. I personally prefer the second approach. The map on osm.org is mainly a working tool. It is not shiny, but it has a purpose and it does itss job well. So we should present it that way and give the first row advantage to those shiny feature-laden applications that serve well to impress and convince new people of OSM. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/16 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Well, but it is an issue that the map we show off now, is not exactly feature rich (plain text: is nothing to show off). So I think the discussion is warranted to either add more bliing bling to the map, or give it a less dominant status. I personally prefer the second approach. The map on osm.org is mainly a working tool. It is not shiny, but it has a purpose and it does itss job well. So we should present it that way and give the first row advantage to those shiny feature-laden applications that serve well to impress and convince new people of OSM. I disagree because I think, the map is the best way to show our potential (and is also used to serve access to online(potlatch-)editors and to export data). Some more features wouldn't harm though, if inserted into the common interface without any cluttering (e.g. intelligent search, GUI for adding markers in permalinks, etc.). Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/three.jpg I don't find that too bad actually. But it has no map on the first page. I vehemently stated that we're about data, not about slippy maps, in the talk-de discussion; however we also need to show off. I tend to agree with Frederik: no prominent map, we are about data, geodata, map is just one of the byproducts. If I would redesign the main page I would rather give more emphasis to top examples of how those data can come out of the DB, local contacts, and a way to see that given any single area of the world a map can come out differently (i.e. aimed at different kind of users: cycle, auto). Show of what you can do with CC-BY-SA data...not just slippymap. -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
I agree with Martin. It would be nice to keep the map prominent on the home page... but add more interactivity. Permalinks with markers would be a big advantage as it would make the map more functional without adding too much overhead. When I want to point something out to someone, I send the URL of the area they should view and say take a look at the [insert colour here] part in the middle, you'll find it there. I think a big first step for people becoming involved in the project is for them to start using it in every day life. Perhaps a compromise would be to have some links to other versions of the map with a small thumbnail of what they look like (like the cycle map), as well as some basic drawing ability (permalink ruler maybe?). Thoughts? Regards, Brendan 2009/6/16 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/6/16 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Well, but it is an issue that the map we show off now, is not exactly feature rich (plain text: is nothing to show off). So I think the discussion is warranted to either add more bliing bling to the map, or give it a less dominant status. I personally prefer the second approach. The map on osm.org is mainly a working tool. It is not shiny, but it has a purpose and it does itss job well. So we should present it that way and give the first row advantage to those shiny feature-laden applications that serve well to impress and convince new people of OSM. I disagree because I think, the map is the best way to show our potential (and is also used to serve access to online(potlatch-)editors and to export data). Some more features wouldn't harm though, if inserted into the common interface without any cluttering (e.g. intelligent search, GUI for adding markers in permalinks, etc.). Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
I disagree because I think, the map is the best way to show our potential Well, clearly not. The potential of OSM is not that we can produce a nice slippy map. Google did that just fine. The potential is that you can do a lot more with the osm data, than you can with any copyrighted map-API from one of the big guys. So if we want to show off our potential, then we should not present our slippy map, but cool projects that have been realised with osm data. (and is also used to serve access to online(potlatch-)editors and to export data). As I said, it is a tool (in a very positive sense). Some more features wouldn't harm though, if inserted into the common interface without any cluttering (e.g. intelligent search, GUI for adding markers in permalinks, etc.). I am with you here. I think those should be implemented in any case. Greetings, Peter Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:56 PM, brendan barrettshogun...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps a compromise would be to have some links to other versions of the map If the layer selector was exposed by default, that would have a big impact. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Andy Allangravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps a compromise would be to have some links to other versions of the map If the layer selector was exposed by default, that would have a big impact. better IMHO would be to have thumbnails of same area, different design/features. -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:40:35 +0200, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com better IMHO would be to have thumbnails of same area, different design/features. I like this approach as part of the three column layout, and I would use four thumbnails for people to get at the map: - default - osmarender - cycle - public transport (http://www.öpnvkarte.de) Each linking through to the slippy map with that layer selected, and the public transport tiles optionally mirrored on OSM infrastructure to ensure it can cope. Other points to reinforce what others have said: - the front page should promote the unique selling points of OSM - free data, versatility, participation, detail, coverage (not just a slippy map that's not really as functional as Google Maps) - features on the front page that are really unique to OSM in the map world, and that are underplayed now: export, edit and blogs.openstreetmap.org Regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
- public transport (http://www.öpnvkarte.de) Oh. I like that. I didn't realise it covered countries outside Germany as well. And I didn’t know that there were bus route relations anywhere near here. There's an added incentive to get around to adding the two bus routes I traced the weekend before last. The way it renders the roads is a bit strange when you zoom in though. Trunk roads don't appear until z13, though lower ranked roads seem to appear at z12 (and it looks like primary appear at z11). Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
I also like the 3 column layout as it is a lot more inviting to potential new recruits than the current page. Map thumbnails also seem like a good idea although I would drop osmarender as a thumbnail and replace it with a topographic hiking map or maybe a rotating spot for the likes of cloudmade/ito to show off what can be done with the data. Kevin On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: I like this approach as part of the three column layout, and I would use four thumbnails for people to get at the map: - default - osmarender - cycle - public transport (http://www.öpnvkarte.dehttp://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de ) Regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 16 Jun 2009, at 05:55, Simone Cortesi wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/three.jpg I don't find that too bad actually. But it has no map on the first page. I vehemently stated that we're about data, not about slippy maps, in the talk-de discussion; however we also need to show off. I tend to agree with Frederik: no prominent map, we are about data, geodata, map is just one of the byproducts. Yes but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater in removing the map. We should have the basics to show people what it is we do up front and allow them to explore and edit. I like the bubble ideas much more. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Jun 16, 2009, at 7:35 AM, Tom Chance wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:40:35 +0200, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com better IMHO would be to have thumbnails of same area, different design/features. I like this approach as part of the three column layout, and I would use four thumbnails for people to get at the map: - default - osmarender - cycle - public transport (http://www.öpnvkarte.de) How about something a bit more graphic, like this piece Tom Carden did for historical Oakland maps? http://www.tom-carden.co.uk/flash/hello-oakland/ I agree with Richard Mann, the map *is* the data. I also agree with Andy Allan, multiple layers should be visible up-front in some form. An addition that would help round this out would be an improved version of the current data layer, a view that directly exposes the fact of raw, underlying vector data exposed for the use and modification of visitors. -mik. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. What are people's thoughts about the default zoom? I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. At present the website does not have a remember me / persistent login - so that a user has to view the UK area on the map first, as a logged out user, before manually logging in, and thereby possibly seeing the map change. Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? How about using cookies for non-logged in users? How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn? (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
What I was thinking about for some time for experimenting on www.openstreetmap.pl was that the subset of data would be loaded together with the bitmap tiles in a txt or json file and objects such as big roads or buildings highlight when you mouse over them, perhaps after a short delay. Particularly I wanted this in order to display somewhere the link to the wikipedia page linked by the means of the wikipedia= tag that is getting more popular these days, at the same time the object's shape highlights on the map. My idea for implementing this would be that the txt/json files would be generated by the renderer at the same time the tiles are generated and in a similar directory structure of z/x/y.txt tiles, with the amount of objects conforming to zoom level. A single txt tile would perhaps cover nine or sixteen bitmap tiles area as to not generate so many http requests, and hopefully the browser would cache them like the bitmaps. Note that I don't know how doable this is yet, but I think it would serve the purpose of showing off the data well. 2009/6/16 Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com: Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? How about using cookies for non-logged in users? How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn? (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) And functional (i.e actually works). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Hi, Kevin Peat wrote: I don't think we should drop maps completely from the front page but I think we should show more of what is special about the project. That's what I was thinking. Whether the map is the data or not - Google has a map, and it is (currently) more complete and faster than ours, it has a better search function and aerial imagery on top of that. Yes, ours has much more detail, ours is free for the taking and open to contributors, ours has a huge community behind it and has the data for anyone who cares - but none of THAT is visible at first glance. It is probably very hard to make these advantages visible at first glance, and we're not marketing or communications experts, but we ought to try. This does not mean the map has to vanish from page 1 but I'd like to highlight the bits where we are actually better than everyone else, rather than just catching up. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Maybe we could also leverage the new part of HTML 5 that enables geolocation to center the map on the user's current location. I know IE doesn't support it yet, but waiting for IE support of a new technology is pretty much like saying that you will lag years behind... Yann Le 16 juin 09 à 21:14, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Hi, Kevin Peat wrote: I don't think we should drop maps completely from the front page but I think we should show more of what is special about the project. That's what I was thinking. Whether the map is the data or not - Google has a map, and it is (currently) more complete and faster than ours, it has a better search function and aerial imagery on top of that. Yes, ours has much more detail, ours is free for the taking and open to contributors, ours has a huge community behind it and has the data for anyone who cares - but none of THAT is visible at first glance. It is probably very hard to make these advantages visible at first glance, and we're not marketing or communications experts, but we ought to try. This does not mean the map has to vanish from page 1 but I'd like to highlight the bits where we are actually better than everyone else, rather than just catching up. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/16 Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com: (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) I don't even see more than 5 pixels at it at my resolution. To suggest something less radical than a complete redesign of osm.org: Could it please be moved above the SOTM advert? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 16 Jun 2009, at 11:38, Tim Waters (chippy) wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I thought that the IP 2 geo stuff was in there to make it default to the country it thinks you're in? What are people's thoughts about the default zoom? I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. At present the website does not have a remember me / persistent login - so that a user has to view the UK area on the map first, as a logged out user, before manually logging in, and thereby possibly seeing the map change. Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? How about using cookies for non-logged in users? How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn? (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On 16 Jun 2009, at 19:38, Tim Waters (chippy) wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. Only if they have a UK IP. Getting more specific than country level is usually unreliable. Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? Already done to the country level. How about using cookies for non-logged in users? This is already the case. It doesn't matter if you are logged in to get it to show the last place viewed. How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn? (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) The search is intentionally not prominent because it struggles when more then a couple of people try searching at the same. Once improved search facilities are provided (they are currently in, this des Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Shaun McDonaldsh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? Already done to the country level. I'm in South Africa... and it defaults to the UK for me. Obviously if I return to the site, then the cookie kicks in and the map shows me the last viewed area (regardless of whether I have logged in or not). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/15 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Move the map Please don't move the map. It sums-up a lot (not everything but a lot) of what we do. OPEN - edit button STREET - the data MAP - its geo -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/17 Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. Presumably these are people who are in the UK? What are people's thoughts about the default zoom? Mine are mostly that you clearly have no idea what the current algorithm is ;-) I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. Wrong. There has for a long time now been a location cookie that is independent of whether you are logged in or not.. As of a few weeks ago it is no longer a session cookie so it now lasts across browser sessions. If you are logged in and you have no location cookie then your home location is used. Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? We've been doing that for a couple of years - if you have no location cookie then we us GeoIP to get a country and zoom to that country. How about using cookies for non-logged in users? We've been doing that for a couple of years, as described above. (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) Because it works. Ours doesn't for practical purposes - once that is sorted we can think about moving it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Le mardi 16 juin 2009 à 22:45, SteveC a écrit : One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I thought that the IP 2 geo stuff was in there to make it default to the country it thinks you're in? It is. When I open my browser on OSM it is centered on belgium (except from some place where it is whole europe, probably because it can't associate the IP there to a specific country). -- Renaud Michel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Peter wrote: there has been a quite lively debate on talk-de about the appearance of the openstreetmap.org page to newcomers to the project The front page design was mentioned here in early March, and pointed to a wiki page where there was some brief discussion: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Front_Page Whether this is any help with the talk-de discussions, and how much work is involved with a redesign since the i18n changes I don’t know. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Hi, Ed Loach wrote: Peter wrote: there has been a quite lively debate on talk-de about the appearance of the openstreetmap.org page to newcomers to the project The front page design was mentioned here in early March, and pointed to a wiki page where there was some brief discussion: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Front_Page Every single design that was thrown around at the time had the map very prominently on the front page. I do not necessarily want to say that the map should be removed from the front page; I'm not sure. www.openstreetmap.de tries to have it all with the map sandwiched inside a larger page. About two years ago, a completely different, three-column design was discussed on the lists but did not find too many friends at the time; I have an old copy of it here but I don't know who the original author was: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/three.jpg I don't find that too bad actually. But it has no map on the first page. I vehemently stated that we're about data, not about slippy maps, in the talk-de discussion; however we also need to show off. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Hi, Ed Loach wrote: Peter wrote: there has been a quite lively debate on talk-de about the appearance of the openstreetmap.org page to newcomers to the project The front page design was mentioned here in early March, and pointed to a wiki page where there was some brief discussion: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Front_Page Every single design that was thrown around at the time had the map very prominently on the front page. I like the idea of a small or even bigger bubble over the map, when you enter the website the first time (see example 1, 3, 6) This also could be a compromise between the three-column design and the current design. Personally i also like the three-column design quite a lot. It would need some kind of update with the history and other things of course, but it would be a base to think about further designs in this direction. Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
