Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On 07/11/08 17:28, James Stewart wrote: There has just been this discussion on the spanish list - and the conclusion was to label these roads as 'residential', since they are generally public roads with traffic similar to residential areas, rather than roads between places which would be 'unclassified' or 'classified', and are not really 'service' roads, which might apply to the roads within a private industrial complex. James Residental should only be applied if people live on the road. Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Lester wrote: This still does not 'answer the question'. Which selection should take priority - tag all roads of this type 'unclassified' or tag some bits 'unclassified' outside private property and some 'service' for those inside private property? I understand the definition of 'unclassified', and many of the 'residential' and 'service' roads currently tagged as such ARE 'unclassified'. I would expect both 'residential' and 'service' roads to have a default status of unclassified, otherwise they would be tagged 'primary' or 'secondary' since THAT takes priority over 'residential' and 'service'? It's a matter of creating some consistency in tagging. I think there will always be some judgment calls involved when it comes to classifying roads which don't have signs indicating primary or secondary. There are country lanes around here I tag as unclassified as it seems to make sense, even though there may be one or two residential properties along their length (often with large drives and plenty of land). Switching from unclassified to residential for the width of their gates (or property limits if I can guess them) could make sense, I suppose. In the case of industrial estates I tend to use unclassified if it is a through route (or even tertiary if it is a major unclassified through route) and service otherwise. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The purpose of the service road is to service an industrial area - therefore it is not simply unclassified. Unclassified is only appropriate - in my opinion - when the road has no identified other use. Why bother with residential or service if they are all going to be called unclassified? highway=unclassified is a specific classification, just one with a confusing name. It has special meaning in some countries, including the UK. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway%3Dunclassified for more details. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Andy Allan wrote: On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The purpose of the service road is to service an industrial area - therefore it is not simply unclassified. Unclassified is only appropriate - in my opinion - when the road has no identified other use. Why bother with residential or service if they are all going to be called unclassified? highway=unclassified is a specific classification, just one with a confusing name. It has special meaning in some countries, including the UK. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway%3Dunclassified for more details. This still does not 'answer the question'. Which selection should take priority - tag all roads of this type 'unclassified' or tag some bits 'unclassified' outside private property and some 'service' for those inside private property? I understand the definition of 'unclassified', and many of the 'residential' and 'service' roads currently tagged as such ARE 'unclassified'. I would expect both 'residential' and 'service' roads to have a default status of unclassified, otherwise they would be tagged 'primary' or 'secondary' since THAT takes priority over 'residential' and 'service'? It's a matter of creating some consistency in tagging. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Lester Caine wrote: Sent: 07 November 2008 11:47 AM To: OSM Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads David Earl wrote: On 07/11/2008 11:31, Christoph Boehme wrote: Joshua Scotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. I usually tag these roads as highway=unclassified. Only if they are public, surely. highway=service seems the best choice for areas that are purely 'industrial' with an added access=private for roads within security areas. unclassified is certainly out of place where the purpose of the road is known, but perhaps THAT is what needs to be defined as a tagging guideline? A point of note here for the UK. Whether a road is actually private or not is not always clear. The import is whether the road has been adopted or not by the local authority. Some industrial areas stick gates across the road to improve security but that doesn't necessarily mean the road is private. You will quite often find that if there is a public sewer running along the road then the road will have been adopted. The other point is about permissive access. During the working day, most estates permit access for trade. Some have a security station on them which further complicates matters. Ultimately, I tag a road as unadopted=true if the road is signed as being unadopted, otherwise I leave the status blank unless I really am sure it's a privately owned road, in which case I add the private=true. This same situation also holds true for some residential roads. If a road has a gate and a button alongside that opens the gate (no restriction) then chances are that its perhaps not a private road. Cheers Andy -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1772 - Release Date: 06/11/2008 8:23 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Tom Chance wrote: This is what I always do, with one distinction: if it is a signposted road going into the estate, then I use highway=unclassified; if it is a service road running through the estate I use highway=service. I like that as a general principle - the concept of routeyness, if you will. It's similar to what (old chestnut time) I'd consider the difference between tertiary and unclassified. Tertiary roads are more routey than unclassified roads. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
David Earl wrote: On 07/11/2008 11:31, Christoph Boehme wrote: Joshua Scotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. I usually tag these roads as highway=unclassified. Only if they are public, surely. highway=service seems the best choice for areas that are purely 'industrial' with an added access=private for roads within security areas. unclassified is certainly out of place where the purpose of the road is known, but perhaps THAT is what needs to be defined as a tagging guideline? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Joshua Scotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. I usually tag these roads as highway=unclassified. Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Joshua Scotton wrote: Hi, I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. Should I use something like highway=industrial, or something else? highway=service or highway=unclassified, I would say. - -Alex Mauer hawke -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkUblsACgkQ66h/gpo37v/9ugCfVITF2MIRnRMzZaphA1hlWF8r 5DQAmwZ35tDbVjZ1jreVMgS980EyVo6o =UBwf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
There has just been this discussion on the spanish list - and the conclusion was to label these roads as 'residential', since they are generally public roads with traffic similar to residential areas, rather than roads between places which would be 'unclassified' or 'classified', and are not really 'service' roads, which might apply to the roads within a private industrial complex. James Dr James Stewart Research centre for Social Sciences Institute for the Study of Science, Technology and Innovation University of Edinburgh http://www.issti.ed.ac.uk http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/jkstew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On 07/11/2008 11:31, Christoph Boehme wrote: Joshua Scotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. I usually tag these roads as highway=unclassified. Only if they are public, surely. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: Lester Caine wrote: Sent: 07 November 2008 11:47 AM To: OSM Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads David Earl wrote: On 07/11/2008 11:31, Christoph Boehme wrote: Joshua Scotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. I usually tag these roads as highway=unclassified. Only if they are public, surely. highway=service seems the best choice for areas that are purely 'industrial' with an added access=private for roads within security areas. unclassified is certainly out of place where the purpose of the road is known, but perhaps THAT is what needs to be defined as a tagging guideline? A point of note here for the UK. Whether a road is actually private or not is not always clear. The import is whether the road has been adopted or not by the local authority. Some industrial areas stick gates across the road to improve security but that doesn't necessarily mean the road is private. You will quite often find that if there is a public sewer running along the road then the road will have been adopted. The other point is about permissive access. During the working day, most estates permit access for trade. Some have a security station on them which further complicates matters. That is part of the 'private'. Our own estate has a security post with gates closed over night - but I'd not classify it as private. Many large industrial areas I attend require signing into the estate and having permission to enter. So 'private' is well defined here. The estates I'm thinking of around Coventry and Birmingham have public service roads connecting to a number of private areas owned by large organisations. The 'private' road systems are quite complex in areas, but at the end of the day the whole area is highway=service - except for the highway=primary going straight through the middle. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.5249lon=-1.69868zoom=15layers=B000FTF A lot of private service roads are missing here :( But the little zigzag bit towards the middle was as far as I got into 'Expeditors' area ;) Ultimately, I tag a road as unadopted=true if the road is signed as being unadopted, otherwise I leave the status blank unless I really am sure it's a privately owned road, in which case I add the private=true. This same situation also holds true for some residential roads. If a road has a gate and a button alongside that opens the gate (no restriction) then chances are that its perhaps not a private road. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 12:14 +, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: ...snip... Usually highway=service You might want to mark the boundary of the industrial area out and tag it landuse=industrial. +1, that's what the highway=service was intended for when I created the original map features. ...snip... Thanks, Josh -- Joshua Scotton, MAAT My PGP public key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x3E4E0E21 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
David Earl wrote: Sent: 07 November 2008 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads On 07/11/2008 06:48, Joshua Scotton wrote: Hi, I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. Should I use something like highway=industrial, or something else? Usually highway=service You might want to mark the boundary of the industrial area out and tag it landuse=industrial. +1, that's what the highway=service was intended for when I created the original map features. Cheers Andy David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1772 - Release Date: 06/11/2008 8:23 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
David Earl wrote: On 07/11/2008 06:48, Joshua Scotton wrote: Hi, I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. Should I use something like highway=industrial, or something else? Usually highway=service Personally, I'd use highway=unclassified (which is like residential but without residents :-)) But hey, as long as it renders and makes sense to you... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On 07/11/2008 06:48, Joshua Scotton wrote: Hi, I added some streets recently on an industrial estate and tagged them highway=road as I'm not sure what other tag to use. They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. Should I use something like highway=industrial, or something else? Usually highway=service You might want to mark the boundary of the industrial area out and tag it landuse=industrial. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:30:34 +, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 07/11/2008 06:48, Joshua Scotton wrote: They are roads on a uk industrial estate with the normal white lines in the middle of the road. Usually highway=service You might want to mark the boundary of the industrial area out and tag it landuse=industrial. This is what I always do, with one distinction: if it is a signposted road going into the estate, then I use highway=unclassified; if it is a service road running through the estate I use highway=service. See, for example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.37642lon=-0.15474zoom=16 Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
2008/11/7 James Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There has just been this discussion on the spanish list - and the conclusion was to label these roads as 'residential', since they are generally public roads with traffic similar to residential areas, rather than roads between places which would be 'unclassified' or 'classified', and are not really 'service' roads, which might apply to the roads within a private industrial complex. James Yet residential implies just that - the road is abutted by residences. Although the rationale is there, the additional implication makes the tag an invalid choice. As others have said, service or unclassified depending on size. Regards, Thomas Wood ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] UK Industrial Estate Roads
On Friday 07 November 2008 12:47:07 Lester Caine wrote: unclassified is certainly out of place where the purpose of the road is known, ??? Can you explain what you mean by this? -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
