Re: [talk-au] access=destination
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: ... I've emailed QLD gov and Brisbane CC about what the signs mean, though I'm not holding my breath for a response... An email response from the Road Safety System Management Division, Department of Transport and Main Roads (QLD): --- The 'Local Traffic Only' sign is an advisory sign only and is not regulatory. An extract from the MUTCD is produced below. 20.3.3 Local traffic only (G9-40-1) The LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY sign may be used at the entrance to a local area to advise road users that the street is not intended for through traffic. This sign may be installed by either The Department of Transport and Main Roads or Local Government with the appropriate delegation. It is an advisory sign to all road users advising the street is not intended to be used by through traffic, however vehicles are the primary target (bicycles and pedestrians are generally not an issue). --- Suggestions for tagging, then? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] access=destination
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: ... I've emailed QLD gov and Brisbane CC about what the signs mean, though I'm not holding my breath for a response... An email response from the Road Safety System Management Division, Department of Transport and Main Roads (QLD): --- The 'Local Traffic Only' sign is an advisory sign only and is not regulatory. An extract from the MUTCD is produced below. 20.3.3 Local traffic only (G9-40-1) The LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY sign may be used at the entrance to a local area to advise road users that the street is not intended for through traffic. This sign may be installed by either The Department of Transport and Main Roads or Local Government with the appropriate delegation. It is an advisory sign to all road users advising the street is not intended to be used by through traffic, however vehicles are the primary target (bicycles and pedestrians are generally not an issue). --- Suggestions for tagging, then? Great work Roy (not providing any suggestions) Last time I emailed RTA (NSW) for information was June 09 I'm still awaiting the reply. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] access=destination
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Great work Roy Cheers :) (not providing any suggestions) Alright how's this It is an advisory sign to all road users advising the street is not intended to be used by through traffic, however vehicles are the primary target (bicycles and pedestrians are generally not an issue). Unfortunately, this response is still a little unclear. But I would read that generally not an issue here means excluded. Please let me know if you disagree (in which case, you in fact aren't allowed to *walk* through a Local Traffic Only sign, and access=destination is the correct tag to use). So, if everyone agrees that response means bicycles/pedestrians are excluded, then from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access we could use: vehicle=destination (which - perhaps wrongly - includes bicycles), or motor_vehicle=destination (which - perhaps wrongly - excludes a horse and carriage). motor_vehicle=destination seems best to me. I'd propose, for tags in Queensland (and possibly elsewhere in AU): 1) a bulk change of access=destination to motor_vehicle=destination + FIXME=does access=destination really apply to bicycles/pedestrians here? 2) an update to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines recommending the use of motor_vehicle=destination + motor_vehicle:source=Local Traffic Only sign in these cases. I propose a bulk update because a) I can't think of any other reason why access=destination would be applied to ways in Queensland, other than due to the observance of Local Traffic Only sign, and b) this reportedly adversely affects foot routing, so it should be fixed. The 'Local Traffic Only' sign is an advisory sign only and is not regulatory. I don't think this is important, but this could be specified using motor_vehicle:regulatory=no (or inferred from motor_vehicle:source=Local Traffic Only sign) Thoughts? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] access=destination
2010/1/25 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
The 'Local Traffic Only' sign is an advisory sign only and is not
regulatory.
I don't think this is important, but this could be specified using
motor_vehicle:regulatory=no (or inferred from
motor_vehicle:source=Local Traffic Only sign)
Actually, this is the important bit. By saying it is not regulatory
means that it can not be enforced. I am legally allowed to drive past
a Local traffic sign and totally ignore it. By the definitions in
the Wiki, this means it should be tagged access=yes {The public has an
official, legally-enshrined right of access}. We could also skip the
tag entirely, as this is assumed the default.
A Local Traffic sign is a recommendation, not a law. As such, it is
sort of the opposite of access=designated, which is designed to show
places we would prefer certain vehicles to go, this is designed to
show places we would prefer them not to. We don't actually have a tag
for this at the moment, maybe we need one.
I propose a bulk update because a) I can't think of any other reason
why access=destination would be applied to ways in Queensland
I can think of quite a few ways which should be marked
access=destination in QLD. Almost any large factory or industrial
complex has some sort of access road, some of which are quite long and
mapped. Access to these is (theoretically) restricted to people
visiting the factory, though enforcement varies. Roads through
Enoggera barracks and similar places are similarly restricted. We
don't want routing software trying to take anybody through these, even
if you're on foot.
Maybe we need to do a data extract and look at how many such tags
exist - ie how big a problem it is. There may be few enough that we
can do some sort of check before we do any automated changing.
Stephen
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