[talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
Hi What (if any) is the correct tagging for unauthorised trails in national and state parks? For example, Ant Track https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.92599/145.32051 I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. I have not yet worked out how to contact the author of Ant Track. Thanks Tony ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] [SA] Survey marks released as open data
Hi, I’ve noticed that the SA Survey marks have been released as open data on the 27th of July (3 days ago) https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/survey-marks-and-survey-mark-plans-reference https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/survey-marks-and-survey-mark-plans-reference This should be quite useful for georeferencing the Bing Imagery as there are many survey marks visible in the photographs and the offset is often 2-3 meters. I’m intending to add marks I can see on the ground (square rusty metal plates about 10cm plates labelled ACC in the Adelaide City Council) and in Bing and use this to better align North Adelaide and put data in the OSM Imagery Offset database, which seems very deficient in Australia generally. This is quite a pleasing addition but to be of value will need other mappers to use the imagery offset database, rather than simply tracing Bing without an offset. Next one on my wishlist is the Property Cadastre, which will no doubt come to pass. Off topic my previous wishes have included Traffic Volumes AADT, Road Crashes - individual crashes not summated, now all available on data.sa.gov.au http://data.sa.gov.au/ Alex___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
On 30/07/2015 10:20 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi What (if any) is the correct tagging for unauthorised trails in national and state parks? For example, Ant Track https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.92599/145.32051 I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. I have not yet worked out how to contact the author of Ant Track. The trail physically exists? Then it is mappable. However .. tag it access=no (or similar) ... If the trail is blocked off so people cannot use it tag disused. The track is Way: Ant Track (289298073) Added extra details to 'tracks' behind birdsland, and the new access bridge to birdsland, from 3 seperate GPS tracks. Edited 10 months ago by steve91 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/steve91 Version #3 · Changeset #25600646 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25600646 So contact steve through OSM https://www.openstreetmap.org/login?referer=%2Fmessage%2Fnew%2Fsteve91 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
If the path exists then shouldn't it be tagged access=no + foot=yes? From:fors...@ozonline.com.au fors...@ozonline.com.au Date:Thu, 30 Jul, 2015 at 11:53 Subject:Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks Thanks for the replies The track exists and is mappable. It is not blocked off. Parks Vic prefers light handed regulation so I used mild language to describe the track status. http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/315692/Park-note-Lysterfield-Lake-mountain-bike-riding.pdf actually states: Cyclists are not permitted to create new tracks, ride through bush or ride on tracks other than those designated for Mountain Bike riding. Possibly tag it access=no and rename it to Track closed depending on how widely the name Ant Track is known. It may be known as Ant Track by a very small group of riders. Thanks for the contact info, I didn't want to start an edit war with the author. I will contact them. Tony ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
I lean towards mapping what's physically there, so if the trail exists I think it's ok to map it if you want to. If the trail is blocked by a fence/barrier and signage saying keep out etc, then I think access=no would be appropriate as it's facts based on what's physically there. I also default to If in doubt, leave the map as it is. So if someone has mapped something and I'm not really sure of any changes I'm thinking of making are correct, then I leave it alone. Anyway that's just my thoughts. Hi What (if any) is the correct tagging for unauthorised trails in national and state parks? For example, Ant Track https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.92599/145.32051 I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. I have not yet worked out how to contact the author of Ant Track. Thanks Tony _ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
The access issues get very murchy very quickly. We have a Forestry area that is clearly signposted for bikes to stick to vehicle tracks, however for 10 years or more Forestry has sponsored volunteer mountain bikers to build and maintain trails in this area. Go figure. Parks have a category for some trails called keep but don't promote. ie they are not going to close the trail but they are not going to signpost it either. Maybe the Ant trail is one of these?? We have a council with a trail on an un-made road reserve. This is legal access for walkers and bike riders and possibly motor vehicles, however the trail is littered with no-bikes signs. Contact the council and they confirm it is ok for bikes to use. We have a council with signposted downhill mountain bike trails saying no-walkers, but there is not legal standing for the signage. We have a trail that seems to be randomly ok or not ok for bikes depending on the Ranger. One Ranger says, yep not supposed to ride bikes on that trail, that Ranger moves on and another Ranger takes his place, yep it's fine to ride bikes on that trail. Ranger moves on and another Ranger takes his place, no bikes shouldn't be on that trail DOH! We have trails that local volunteers have made up their own signage to limit use of a trail to their liking, with no authority from anyone, and some of this signage looks very professional. Walkers excluding bike riders, bike riders excluding walkers Good luck putting accurate access info in OSM. lol David Hi We have much the same issue with walking tracks and old surveying/mining roads is Tasmania. Parks has played a very dominating roll with Tasmapi it is actually dangerous as you can be standing on a made road/track and as it does not appear on the map you can get confused and lost. Also had a track appeared on a map a walking group could have walked out using it rather than calling in search and rescue to cross a flooded river. I use a simple rule, if it appears on the ground then it should appear in OSM. I do fully agree that access should be no. Just my thoughts based on lot of ground truthing. Ie getting lost. Cheers Brett Russell On 30 Jul 2015, at 12:09 pm, David Clark dbcl...@fastmail.com.au wrote: I lean towards mapping what's physically there, so if the trail exists I think it's ok to map it if you want to. If the trail is blocked by a fence/barrier and signage saying keep out etc, then I think access=no would be appropriate as it's facts based on what's physically there. I also default to If in doubt, leave the map as it is. So if someone has mapped something and I'm not really sure of any changes I'm thinking of making are correct, then I leave it alone. Anyway that's just my thoughts. Hi What (if any) is the correct tagging for unauthorised trails in national and state parks? For example, Ant Track https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.92599/145.32051 I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. I have not yet worked out how to contact the author of Ant Track. Thanks Tony _ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au _ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
Hi We have much the same issue with walking tracks and old surveying/mining roads is Tasmania. Parks has played a very dominating roll with Tasmapi it is actually dangerous as you can be standing on a made road/track and as it does not appear on the map you can get confused and lost. Also had a track appeared on a map a walking group could have walked out using it rather than calling in search and rescue to cross a flooded river. I use a simple rule, if it appears on the ground then it should appear in OSM. I do fully agree that access should be no. Just my thoughts based on lot of ground truthing. Ie getting lost. Cheers Brett Russell On 30 Jul 2015, at 12:09 pm, David Clark dbcl...@fastmail.com.au wrote: I lean towards mapping what's physically there, so if the trail exists I think it's ok to map it if you want to. If the trail is blocked by a fence/barrier and signage saying keep out etc, then I think access=no would be appropriate as it's facts based on what's physically there. I also default to If in doubt, leave the map as it is. So if someone has mapped something and I'm not really sure of any changes I'm thinking of making are correct, then I leave it alone. Anyway that's just my thoughts. Hi What (if any) is the correct tagging for unauthorised trails in national and state parks? For example, Ant Track https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.92599/145.32051 I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. I have not yet worked out how to contact the author of Ant Track. Thanks Tony ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
On 30 July 2015 at 11:52, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: The track exists and is mappable. It is not blocked off. Parks Vic prefers light handed regulation so I used mild language to describe the track status. http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/315692/Park-note-Lysterfield-Lake-mountain-bike-riding.pdf actually states: Cyclists are not permitted to create new tracks, ride through bush or ride on tracks other than those designated for Mountain Bike riding. Possibly tag it access=no and rename it to Track closed depending on how widely the name Ant Track is known. It may be known as Ant Track by a very small group of riders. Is it mode specific? See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Transport_mode_restrictions Also perhaps access=discouraged would be better? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Values So perhaps bicycle=discouraged? Don't name it Track closed, that's not a name, that's a description or note http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:description ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
On 7/29/2015 6:52 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Possibly tag it access=no and rename it to Track closed depending on how widely the name Ant Track is known. It may be known as Ant Track by a very small group of riders. The name might not be Ant Track, but it's almost certainly not Track closed. The name tag is for names. access=no already indicates that it is closed (or more precisely that you aren't allowed to access it). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unauthorised bike trails in national parks
On 30 July 2015 at 10:20, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I have spoken with Parks Vic and they request that bike riders do not create additional trails and only use official trails. They would prefer if such unofficial trails were not mapped or named because it implies official status to park users. Would they just 'prefer' it. Or is there actually a regulation preventing their use? We have ways to tag to indicate there is no legal access to bikes. However, I'm not sure how we would tag to indicate someone's preference for things not being used. There is a tag value of official and designated, but someone has tied themselves in knots with this stuff, and I doubt it would be effective here. As another (somewhat related) example, the Parks often don't map Aboriginal sites and drawing on their maps - only the 'official' ones where there are fences, etc. In the past I've chosen not to map these sites, but I've no idea what I would do if I saw someone else had mapped them. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
