Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites

[Warin]

On 05/04/19 08:02, Ian Sergeant wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm sure we're all well intentioned.

If I understand your proposal, what you're saying is we build a wiki 
page that lists the relevant authority and what should not be mapped 
in that area.  Then a local mapper would check against that when 
mapping significant local features?


So that raises two issues I see.

Firstly, since it's defined in the negative it relies on someone 
seeking out the local authority and recording their wishes. Rather 
than imposing a positive obligation to seek permission. In that way it 
seems a little different to what others seem to be proposing.


Secondly, we may end up with a wiki page with the areas and 
significant features all laid out.  Which may be counter to what we're 
trying to achieve here.


+1 ...

Usually it will be a large area - many square kilometres rather than a 
small area.
The name of the 'tribe' should be enough for 'local' mappers to 
determine the area, some areas overlap which is a problem as you would 
need permission from both.





Ian.

From: Sebastian S.
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org, Graeme Fitzpatrick, Ian Sergeant
Cc: OSM-Au


I second that the elders wishes should be respected.

With regards to documenting.
One way would be to mark the local indigenous area/tribe/... And then 
outline in the wiki what should not be mapped in order to respect the 
wishes. I recall a recent blog post or Diary entry regarding 
indigenous communities mapping.


In a sense this falls in the same category as 'I don't want my 
backyard shed or pool mapped from satellite images'. Although the 
cultural aspects are not the same :-)


In some areas backyard pools can form a significant fire fighting 
resource .. and there is some merit in mapping them. Usually the pool 
owner signifies permission for this by placing a small sign at the 
property entrance that fire fighters can see.


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 3 April 2019 8:17:25 am AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
 wrote:



On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 20:27, Ian Sergeant > wrote:

How do we actually contact "local elders"?


Would have to be done "on the ground" in that local area


  Where do we record their consent?


Possibly in Notes? Maybe the Oz Data Catalogue page 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue or similar?



  What if they change their minds?


Then I think we would need to delete the entries, similar to the way 
that you can request your premises not be shown on Google Maps. I 
have seen a comment on the Tagging list that some town in the US 
requested that all it's minor streets be deleted from all online maps 
to prevent rat-runners from driving down them!




Are we saying other mappers should delete these sites if they see 
them on the map?  How do they know if approval was obtained?


I would hope that people have done things "properly". As mentioned 
though, if the site is advertised / signposted, then it's fine to 
map. But if you're walking in the Kimberley & find a cave full of 
paintings, then you should ask for approval before mapping them. This 
was discussed a while back about mapping a track up in that area, but 
I can't find the reference in the archives


is this form of censorship practised anywhere else in OSM - maybe 
for other indigenous people - that we could copy their model?


I don't know? I'll post the question on the Tagging list.


P.S. It's Strait - not "Straight".


Thanks! Corrected :-)

Thanks

Graeme





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Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites

[Ian Sergeant]

Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm sure we're all well intentioned.

If I understand your proposal, what you're saying is we build a wiki page that 
lists the relevant authority and what should not be mapped in that area.  Then 
a local mapper would check against that when mapping significant local features?

So that raises two issues I see.

Firstly, since it's defined in the negative it relies on someone seeking out 
the local authority and recording their wishes.  Rather than imposing a 
positive obligation to seek permission.  In that way it seems a little 
different to what others seem to be proposing.

Secondly, we may end up with a wiki page with the areas and significant 
features all laid out.  Which may be counter to what we're trying to achieve 
here.

Ian.

From: Sebastian S.
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org, Graeme Fitzpatrick, Ian Sergeant
Cc: OSM-Au


I second that the elders wishes should be respected.

With regards to documenting.
One way would be to mark the local indigenous area/tribe/... And then outline 
in the wiki what should not be mapped in order to respect the wishes. I recall 
a recent blog post or Diary entry regarding indigenous communities mapping.

In a sense this falls in the same category as 'I don't want my backyard shed or 
pool mapped from satellite images'. Although the cultural aspects are not the 
same :-)

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 3 April 2019 8:17:25 am AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:


On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 20:27, Ian Sergeant 
mailto:inas66%2b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
How do we actually contact "local elders"?

Would have to be done "on the ground" in that local area

  Where do we record their consent?

Possibly in Notes? Maybe the Oz Data Catalogue page 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue or similar?

  What if they change their minds?

Then I think we would need to delete the entries, similar to the way that you 
can request your premises not be shown on Google Maps. I have seen a comment on 
the Tagging list that some town in the US requested that all it's minor streets 
be deleted from all online maps to prevent rat-runners from driving down them!


Are we saying other mappers should delete these sites if they see them on the 
map?  How do they know if approval was obtained?

I would hope that people have done things "properly". As mentioned though, if 
the site is advertised / signposted, then it's fine to map. But if you're 
walking in the Kimberley & find a cave full of paintings, then you should ask 
for approval before mapping them. This was discussed a while back about mapping 
a track up in that area, but I can't find the reference in the archives

is this form of censorship practised anywhere else in OSM - maybe for other 
indigenous people - that we could copy their model?

I don't know? I'll post the question on the Tagging list.

P.S. It's Strait - not "Straight".

Thanks! Corrected :-)

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: [talk-au] OSGeo Oceania as a not-for-profit entity? Your feedback, please

[John Bryant]

Hi Sebastian, the question of the available pool of volunteers is a great
question. I feel in the short term, we have sufficient levels of
volunteerism and enthusiasm to get it started, but will need to work on
growing the pool to make it sustainable.

We will need new people getting involved every year. The FOSS4G SotM
Oceania conference will be one way to draw in fresh energy, but there are
other branches of this community, such as these mailing lists and other
events, that can also give people the chance to get involved. Setting up
OSGeo and OSMF local chapters will hopefully be a step in the right
direction, and operating transparently will be important to make sure
people can see opportunities to contribute where they have specific
interests and skills.

For the purposes of setting up an entity - we probably need a core group of
at least ~6 active people to fulfil the executive/director roles and
provide sufficient oversight. The annual conference requires a committee of
something like 5-15 people (it's only the 2nd time around so we're learning
as we go), and there could be additional subcommittees depending on
people's initiative & interest.

IMHO it's the more, the merrier, and the sky is the limit. I think we can
keep this alive with a relatively small group, but the point is to get
people involved and engaged, and collaborating to make things happen, so I
hope we can grow a large pool of contributors.

Anyway - good question, the answer is 'we will see' but I'm optimistic!
This community has a bright future.

Cheers!
John

On Wed, 3 Apr 2019 at 05:41, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I do welcome the initiative to put OSM and OSGEO interested people onto a
> more solid foundation. Personally I hope this can be a starting point for
> more face-2-face interactions and engagement.
>
> I did read through your proposal and I see no issues with Option2 as
> suggested as favourable.
> For all options there is the need for several people to fill positions
> with varying degrees of liability. Do you have an understanding how big the
> pool of active volunteers is and how many would be required for Option 2?
>
> Cheers,
> Sebastian
>
>
> On 18/3/19 8:01 pm, John Bryant wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As promised, following on the heels of the successful FOSS4G SotM Oceania
> conference  in November 2018, we have
> embarked on a journey to lay down a strong foundation for the growth of
> this community. In addition to planning a new instance of the conference in
> Wellington, New Zealand, for November 2019, we are also doing significant
> ground work on establishing a not-for-profit that can manage funds, enter
> into agreements, and act as a local chapter of OSGeo and OSMF.
>
> We have developed a recommendation for an initial path forward, and we'd
> like you, the community, to provide your feedback. If you have experience
> or knowledge here, and can provide insight, or wish to contribute your
> thoughts, please chime in. Your comments are most welcome, and can be
> provided by responding to this email, or by commenting in the Google Doc.
>
> The draft recommendation is attached as a PDF, and a live Google Doc
> version is linked here
> .
> We will take input until the end of next week (29 March). At that point,
> we'll make adjustments where warranted, and hopefully be in a position to
> raise a motion to the OSGeo Oceania board to accept the recommendation, and
> begin the process.
>
> If this is all new to you, and you're wondering what the heck OSGeo
> Oceania even is, please check out this basic wiki page
>  that will give you a bit of
> background. We'll be fleshing this out in the coming months, but I hope it
> gives you enough of an idea. We will certainly be aiming to increase our
> outreach, and get people involved from across the region.
>
> Any questions, please ask!
>
> Cheers
> John Bryant
> on behalf of OSGeo Oceania
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal art sites

[Sebastian S.]

I second that the elders wishes should be respected.

With regards to documenting.
One way would be to mark the local indigenous area/tribe/... And then outline 
in the wiki what should not be mapped in order to respect the wishes. I recall 
a recent blog post or Diary entry regarding indigenous communities mapping.

In a sense this falls in the same category as 'I don't want my backyard shed or 
pool mapped from satellite images'. Although the cultural aspects are not the 
same :-)

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 3 April 2019 8:17:25 am AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 20:27, Ian Sergeant  wrote:
>
>> How do we actually contact "local elders"?
>>
>
>Would have to be done "on the ground" in that local area
>
>
>>   Where do we record their consent?
>>
>
>Possibly in Notes? Maybe the Oz Data Catalogue page
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue or
>similar?
>
>  What if they change their minds?
>>
>
>Then I think we would need to delete the entries, similar to the way
>that
>you can request your premises not be shown on Google Maps. I have seen
>a
>comment on the Tagging list that some town in the US requested that all
>it's minor streets be deleted from all online maps to prevent
>rat-runners
>from driving down them!
>
>
>>
>> Are we saying other mappers should delete these sites if they see
>them on
>> the map?  How do they know if approval was obtained?
>>
>
>I would hope that people have done things "properly". As mentioned
>though,
>if the site is advertised / signposted, then it's fine to map. But if
>you're walking in the Kimberley & find a cave full of paintings, then
>you
>should ask for approval before mapping them. This was discussed a while
>back about mapping a track up in that area, but I can't find the
>reference
>in the archives
>
>
>> is this form of censorship practised anywhere else in OSM - maybe for
>> other indigenous people - that we could copy their model?
>>
>
>I don't know? I'll post the question on the Tagging list.
>
>
>> P.S. It's Strait - not "Straight".
>>
>
>Thanks! Corrected :-)
>
>Thanks
>
>Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Large contribution to update OSM rural / offroad tracks in Australia

[Sebastian S.]

When uploading your traces you can name and tag them to ensure they would be 
identified as coming from you.
For this you could also have a maproulette challenge.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 4 April 2019 9:45:15 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Apr 2019 at 16:00, James Nuccio 
>wrote:
>
>> I'm relatively new to using and contributing to OSM but must say I'm
>> really getting into it.  I am currently building a navigation app
>targeted
>> towards the 4wding market which makes use of OSM.  Part of our
>offering is
>> to geo-track our users as they navigate through the bush to better
>> understand the 4wd tracks themselves.
>>
>
>Welcome!
>
>Have you seen the smoothness tag?
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness It can be used to
>flag
>how "off-road" a track is.
>
>
>> A byproduct of this process is that we have hundred of traces to be
>able
>> to validate the geometry of current tracks, as well as add new tracks
>to
>> the database.  All of these traces are an aggregation of user data,
>not
>> traces of individual users.
>>
>> I am keen to get this info back into OSM but I'm looking for help as
>I
>> don't have capacity to do so myself.  However I'd still like the
>> contributions to be entered under my OSM userid.
>>
>
>Just to add to what David said, the OSM gps traces are at
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/traces, if you choose those traces will
>be
>entered under your OSM username.
>
>This then immediately makes your data available to OSM editors who can
>use
>the traces to improve geometry of ways, identify and add in missing
>tracks
>etc from your traces, to be entered under each mapper's OSM username.
>
>Alternatively you could go with Sebastian's suggestion which would keep
>your gps traces separate from all the other traces submitted to OSM.
>
>With those gps traces available, either you or the community could run
>a
>process to flag areas where OSM and your traces differ and create new
>maproulette.org tasks, like Sebastian suggested. Any edits though will
>fall
>under the actual mapper's username.
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