Re: [talk-au] Anything remapping an armchair mapper can help with in Australia?
+1 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: OSM HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO EXCLUDE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Going separate ways
[SNIP] Flames [/SNIP] Hi, Sorry to get involved in this discussion. But it has been filling up my inbox again. Besides all the flames and smoke, what are the real issues here? I think that we dont need to continue this endless discussion. Lets just stop the fighting and do something more productive. Can we make a list of real issues to be resolved and stick with them. There are some issues that wont be resolved, such as hurt feelings and lost trust. But we dont need to have a fight to the death over them. I find that now we have the fosm going, there should be less reasons to fight, everyone has basically what they need. Of course it could be better. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
Sorry for the way he is treating you Liz. Liz is like the grandma of osm. She has been a tireless supporter, She spent months helping in OSM kosovo and flossk. She dontated laptops, gps devices and lots of love. I dont know if you follow that at all steve, but I am shocked how you are speaking to her. Steve, please be a little more respectful of your elders, thanks, mike On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: On 7/8/2011 2:01 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:05:28 -0700 Steve Coastst...@asklater.com wrote: If you go look at talk@ you'll find a lot of history from the people who now inhabit this list. In fact, several of them have either been banned or moderated. big snip of trash I've known them for a lot longer than you have it seems, and as I mention they've been kicked, banned or moderated before. I have not been kicked, banned or moderated, not on any list in my life. Don't you ever say Hello? Am I missing out on something here? Why am I discriminated against? Are such questions on your mind often? I can confirm that other mappers have received emails telling them that their views are well known, and don't require repeating. Likewise I can confirm that All Blokes is not a pseudonym of John Smith. I see. And to return to the topic I'm hardly mapping anything now - since the big argument blew up I have little interest and decided to do some other things. Did you come to me because you are hardly mapping anything now - since the big argument blew up you have little interest and decided to do some other things? __**_ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-auhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au __**_ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-auhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
The control seems to be good, but I have no personal say in it. The new license maybe good, but I dont want to accept it if I dont understand it 100%. With the new distributed system we are building I can : 1. Host my own maps without begging or asking for permissions. 2. Commit my own code to my own repositories 3. Own my own edits without having them deleted by someone for some reason 4. Develop new tools that work with osm that everyone can use and benefit from. The more forks there are, the more possibilities are there for software developers. Kinda like arms dealers. So as long as there is war and conflict, you will need weapons (and maps). As long as there is conflict in the OSM, you will need more software developers, At least my work seems to be more appreciated in the forks. Also I am still working on my new kestrel distributed rendering system, and when that has enough cpus we will be able to do alot more than osm has ever done, because we will have a flexible and reusable decentralized processing system. That is the biggest problem with mindset of the people who are controlling osm, the mindset monolithic and too over controlled. We need to change the mindset to distributed and federated. mike On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:56 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: What you say mike is mostly reasonable apart from the control bit. It's a democratically elected nonprofit, so it's hard to cast that as a dictatorship. Steve stevecoast.com On Jul 7, 2011, at 20:47, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com cbar...@pobox.com wrote: Personally I don't care about the licence. I feel that the forks and this resulting dilution of effort will become a drain on all the projects (united we stand/divided etc etc), and have become a shouting match where the 'political' goals of the forked projects are trumpeted over the stated reason for the thing being there - an open map. Cries of We're more open don't help when you can't rustle up the hosting fees or development volunteers. So a fork must become popular. More popular than other forks or the parent project. Was this the real reason for your post with mention of FOSM (and no other OSM spin-offs), and seeding fear uncertainty and doubt regarding *possible* data deletion.. you were recruiting? My reasons for helping out are simple, because there are more chances to develop software if there is a not a monolithic database. There are more possibilities for OSM if everything is not in the control of a few people. The only way to be able to negotiate is to be in a position to negotiate, so being able to fork is an important part in not having to fork. Already we have developed new and innovative solutions and more. I am also willing to work with osm as much as possible. A fork does not have to be anything bad, and to be honest I see the new license as a fork, a forced one. what we are doing is just setting up the tools and resources for people to continue, and these tools and technologies are needed by everyone and everyone will benefit. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Reassurance and Licensing
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: The LWG is well aware of the NearMap licensing issue and we are trying to get it resolved as soon as we can but we are an all volunteer team with day jobs. The Contributor Terms v1.2.4 reduces the project's freedoms in an attempt to appease NearMap. NearMap Pty Ltd is a company owned by Ipernica. NearMap is an awesome company for allowing us to use their aerial imagery. As others in this thread have mentioned, the NearMap licensing issue is just a specific case of the compatibility of CC-BY data and CC-BY-SA data with the proposed CTs and ODBL. Given the massive amount of data already licensed under CC, I think it would be better to work out an umbrella solution that allows a future OSMF OSM database to continue using CC data without needing more licenses from the huge number of copyright holders of the CC BY / SA data already in the OSM database. What is the status of using CC-BY-SA in the future? Will other people be able to import my data that I will continue to publish under the old license? BTW, i wanted to say that I found a tilehost now and many of parts are in place for a distributed OSM without a central server. http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2011/04/dream-come-true-tile-hosting-on.html mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bing
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Ian Callahan igcalla...@gmail.com wrote: I would caution against any use of Bing and any relationship with Microsoft. Microsoft has a long history of shafting its partners, and of using devious means to acquire rights and control over other peoples IP. IBM was almost destroyed through its collaboration with M$ over OS/2. Sybase gave away what was one of the best RDBMSs around at the time, so M$ could have SQLServer. Where is Sybase now? If you get into bed with Microsoft you will catch a pox. I agree on that. I dont trust them at all. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.comwrote: fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? I think you can use toolserver from wikipedia or even the *hypercube*. telascience.org for hosting and rendering tiles, wikipedia should even prefer creative commons data over incomprensible new licensed data. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:27 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 April 2011 22:18, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: As was said on talk, it seems pretty absurd to be moving an open mapping project in 2011 such that it is shutting out Ordinance Survey and NearMap when all they ask for is attribution. It's a GPL v BSD type issue, some people want share a like, others think a BSD/PD style license is the way to go, No. It's much closer to a Wikipedia transition from GNU FDL to CC-By-SA. OpenStreetMap is moving to a license that is much better suited to data, while maintaining the Share Alike and Attribution aspects. I dont understand this, because the GFDL and CC are largely compatible and there is a dual license, which is not the case here. with the new CT you are leaving the realm of copyleft totally, it becomes contract law and not copyright law. As far as I can tell, the ODBL is not compatible , but I dont really understand it. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
Sorry If I am stupid here, but is it not possible to use CC-BY data for tracing to create new CC-BY-SA data, just not the other way around? According to the compatibility chart, http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cclearn-explanations-cc-license-compatability.pdf By can be used in BY-SA, just give attribution. or am I missing something again? that is the problem when you create all new licenses, no one understands them. mike On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:59 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Does this mean talks with Nearmap has failed to come to an amicable arrangement? From http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-au@openstreetmap.org/msg06524.html Where, Ben Last said: I asked Richard F to remove NearMap support from Potlatch, since we didn't want to encourage anyone to add data to OSM which might be, or become, incompatible with the CTs. Seems like it just took a little longer for this to be reflected in the JOSM plugin. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Steve Bennett wrote: Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: 1. OSMF needs a written out strategic plan. Hear, hear. The equivalent of Patches welcome in this case is: OSMF is a democratically elected body. Candidates welcome. ...provided they've paid their membership dues. Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? FAIL! ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Yeah, I dont pay in money, I pay in code and data. Does that count? Also I payed in trips all over to collect data, dinners with people, etc etc. Why do I need to pay money to a bank account so that I have a say? FAIL! You could make that argument for virtually every volunteer organisation. Virtually all organisations need some kind of funds, and if there is no other form of revenue, it comes from members. Nothing unusual there. The question is of funds for voting rights or merit for voting rights. This means that the people with funds will have a vote and the people who are just working will not. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Neal Schulz neal.sch...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi, In any case, candidates welcome was a ridiculous comment. I agree with this... If the only way to give feedback to an organisation is to run for a position... well it's a ridiculous notion. I have been trying to stay out of the licensing issue because I really don't understand the details. I am also going to dive into real geek work now and get out of this discussion. I love to talk about licenses and such, but unless I have some compelling code or data, no one will listen to me. I don't spend money on memberships of any sort, I am a member of no parties, subscribe to no magazines or newspapers and really don't spend money on things that I don't think are important, and if my work is not of value to some, others might find it good. I am going to try my best to work with the osmf, and with everyone else, donating time and resources to open data and open sources, free software and freedom. mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Following these principles would put an end to a large amount of bickering. I wouldn't read emails which can be summarised as just a little bit longer, and it will be all right. Reference could be made I totally agree with this. I was shocked to hear from some people that they think I am against OSM because I am criticizing the problems that I see. I have spend now two years working almost full time on osm, and I am being put under indirect pressure from people to accept things that are full of problems, that is just wrong. If you want my support, then involve me in the decisions. Don't exclude people from the process and then expect them to wonder the emperors new license that is really not very impressive. I fully support osm and if someone wants to cite references to anything otherwise please do. I also think the forks are a good idea to increase competition, and as programmer, I think there will be more jobs out there when there are more forks and more server than one central server. thanks, mike ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
That is funny, I hope we don't get into a forking of josm as well. OMG. The osm trac is taking forever to load, how lame. Luckily we are using github, which has real performance : https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm-plugins/commit/7402a2349583a250db930b8ac41b5ffa9885acc0#commitcomment-203309 It was removed by Firefishy aka gslater, grant-webs...@firefishy.com I cced him on this mail so he can answer you directly. hope that helps, and peace and love to you all. Happy thanksgiving! thanks, mike On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:24 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2010 20:18, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I can tell, we are still talking with Nearmap to find a compromise acceptable to both party. The last email I exchanged with Ben Last was last night. I don't think we are near a breakdown in communication at all. I Is there any kind of time line on this? It'd be nice if there was some sort of guide to license change over for that matter too, it seems previous time lines agreed upon are being ignored... don't know who did this but I suspect it is for the same reason that it was removed from Potlatch in the first place. Unlike potlatch, JOSM is usually only used by advanced users and it's a lot more complicated to access Nearmap imagery than potlatch... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
Great Grant, thanks alot! so john, you gotta talk to big fred : nearmap does not support the planned license change so we'd rather have people using bing Hope I am helping the discussion not harming. peace and love, thanks, mike On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 26 November 2010 10:32, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: That is funny, I hope we don't get into a forking of josm as well. OMG. The osm trac is taking forever to load, how lame. Luckily we are using github, which has real performance : https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm-plugins/commit/7402a2349583a250db930b8ac41b5ffa9885acc0#commitcomment-203309 It was removed by Firefishy aka gslater, grant-webs...@firefishy.com I cced him on this mail so he can answer you directly. The real code was remove in a previous commit. https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm-plugins/commit/9610061c1c86f4fd55d10730ff4edc3831b5ac82 My commit removed an old NearMap reference so the code would compile. / Grant -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
I find that it scares me that OSM tools are being locked down. One we have flash tools that need a non free runtime, and developers who dont give a damn, then we have this silverlight drama about to unfold. The tools should not be dependant on one license or server or one point of view. We need to adopt a more neutral point of view like wikipedia has, and stop pushing people towards one technology or license. I maintain that competition will help and not harm osm as a project, and that Is why I support creative and not destructive usages of osm and its tools and data in different ways. We need to make sure the tools are open and free, and to be used without a specific purpose or intent. Putting in code changes for the purpose of motivating a certain behavior, to motivate a license change or purpose of usage to limit it to a certain server is wrong in my view. thanks, mike On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: nearmap does not support the planned license change so we'd rather have people using bing --frederik Where is the license information from bing that makes deriving information from their maps compatiable with OSM? Time to fork josm... fjosm! -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
