Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions

[Denis Carriere]

That's unfortunate to hear, I'm not shocked to hear that since we've since
this behavior in Ottawa as well (without investigating too much, I've seen
some questionable road edits from Telenav in the past).

+1 Andrew, thanks for sharing.

I'm sure Telenav as a company means well in their edits and they aren't
purposely trying to vandalise OSM, but might be good to pass down a word to
their OSM editors to be careful when they attempt to delete existing data
(especially if it clearly shows that a local mapper edited the area with
high details).

On Mar 25, 2017 11:53 PM, "Andrew Lester"  wrote:

> I just discovered that user georges_telenav has been mapping turn
> restrictions in the Victoria, BC area. While some of them seem valid, there
> are hundreds of right-turn restrictions that can't possibly be based on
> either Mapillary or OpenStreetView as stated below, because these
> restrictions simply don't exist in reality. Here's an example:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7014602
>
> I don't know about the rest of Canada, but at least in BC, this type of
> turn is perfectly legal unless otherwise indicated. Most drivers would use
> the link road and I'd expect routers should always prefer that, but there's
> nothing wrong if a driver gets past the link road and then changes their
> mind and wants to turn right. I can think of a handful of locations around
> town where there may be a sign explicitly forbidding this or at least
> implying it (e.g. "only left turn"), but the vast majority of the instances
> that this user has mapped do not have such signage. I'm in the process of
> cleaning all these up, but I'm worried there may be thousands more of these
> all over the place outside my immediate region.
>
> However, what I discovered while cleaning these up is even more
> disturbing. This is a region with significant growth, and there are
> frequent changes and additions to the road network. So far, I've discovered
> several cases where a reconfigured intersection or new road I had carefully
> mapped by GPS has been obliterated and replaced with an old configuration,
> apparently based on out-of-date aerial imagery. I take pride in mapping
> these changes as soon as possible after they're completed so end-users have
> the most reliable data (and I often mention this to people as one of the
> benefits of using OSM data in applications), so it's disappointing to see a
> distant armchair mapper destroy this careful on-the-ground work based on
> faulty assumptions and out-of-date imagery. I've also seen Telenav mappers
> adding residential roads that are clearly driveways and making edits
> without properly aligning aerial imagery, so I'm not exactly filled with
> confidence that they should be making widespread changes like they are.
>
> Martijn, I think Telenav needs to stop what they're doing and have a
> careful discussion with us about their plans and editing procedures before
> making any more edits. At least in my area, their edits have not only
> failed to improve the dataset, but in a number of cases has actually
> degraded it. Something needs to be done about this before things go too
> far. I already have a lot of cleanup work ahead of me, and I'd like to
> avoid this happening again in the future (at least by Telenav).
>
> Andrew
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> --
> *From: *"James" 
> *To: *"John Marshall" 
> *Cc: *"talk-ca" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:44:53 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions
>
> Yeah no one really wants to do that, except maybe mapbox's india
> contractors
>
> On Oct 19, 2016 2:43 PM, "John Marshall"  wrote:
>
>> Make sense to me. Adding turn restrictions is something I don't want to
>> add.
>> Happy to see all my Mapillary and OpenStreetView imagery being used to
>> help improve the map.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Begin Daniel  wrote:
>>
>>> Go with the recommended scheme as described on the wiki.
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 17 October, 2016 23:53
>>> *To:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
>>> *Subject:* [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to give you a heads up that my colleagues on the Telenav map
>>> team are starting work on adding turn restrictions in Toronto, Montréal,
>>> and later on also Vancouver, Ottawa and Calgary. We are using
>>> OpenStreetView and Mapillary as sources. If you have any questions or
>>> concerns, please reach out to me and we will address it right away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For conditional (time-restricted) turn restrictions, we intend to use
>>> the schema described in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_
>>> restrictions. We encounter a more complex mapping of conditional turn
>>> restrictions sometimes, where 

Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions

[Andrew Lester]

I just discovered that user georges_telenav has been mapping turn restrictions 
in the Victoria, BC area. While some of them seem valid, there are hundreds of 
right-turn restrictions that can't possibly be based on either Mapillary or 
OpenStreetView as stated below, because these restrictions simply don't exist 
in reality. Here's an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7014602 

I don't know about the rest of Canada, but at least in BC, this type of turn is 
perfectly legal unless otherwise indicated. Most drivers would use the link 
road and I'd expect routers should always prefer that, but there's nothing 
wrong if a driver gets past the link road and then changes their mind and wants 
to turn right. I can think of a handful of locations around town where there 
may be a sign explicitly forbidding this or at least implying it (e.g. "only 
left turn"), but the vast majority of the instances that this user has mapped 
do not have such signage. I'm in the process of cleaning all these up, but I'm 
worried there may be thousands more of these all over the place outside my 
immediate region. 

However, what I discovered while cleaning these up is even more disturbing. 
This is a region with significant growth, and there are frequent changes and 
additions to the road network. So far, I've discovered several cases where a 
reconfigured intersection or new road I had carefully mapped by GPS has been 
obliterated and replaced with an old configuration, apparently based on 
out-of-date aerial imagery. I take pride in mapping these changes as soon as 
possible after they're completed so end-users have the most reliable data (and 
I often mention this to people as one of the benefits of using OSM data in 
applications), so it's disappointing to see a distant armchair mapper destroy 
this careful on-the-ground work based on faulty assumptions and out-of-date 
imagery. I've also seen Telenav mappers adding residential roads that are 
clearly driveways and making edits without properly aligning aerial imagery, so 
I'm not exactly filled with confidence that they should be making widespread 
changes like they are. 

Martijn, I think Telenav needs to stop what they're doing and have a careful 
discussion with us about their plans and editing procedures before making any 
more edits. At least in my area, their edits have not only failed to improve 
the dataset, but in a number of cases has actually degraded it. Something needs 
to be done about this before things go too far. I already have a lot of cleanup 
work ahead of me, and I'd like to avoid this happening again in the future (at 
least by Telenav). 

Andrew 
Victoria, BC, Canada 


From: "James"  
To: "John Marshall"  
Cc: "talk-ca"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:44:53 AM 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions 



Yeah no one really wants to do that, except maybe mapbox's india contractors 

On Oct 19, 2016 2:43 PM, "John Marshall" < rps...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Make sense to me. A dding turn restrictions is something I don't want to add. 
Happy to see all my Mapillary and OpenStreetView imagery being used to help 
improve the map. 

John 

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Begin Daniel < jfd...@hotmail.com > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN



Go with the recommended scheme as described on the wiki. 

Daniel 



From: Martijn van Exel [mailto: m...@rtijn.org ] 
Sent: Monday, 17 October, 2016 23:53 
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions 





Hi all, 





I wanted to give you a heads up that my colleagues on the Telenav map team are 
starting work on adding turn restrictions in Toronto, Montréal, and later on 
also Vancouver, Ottawa and Calgary. We are using OpenStreetView and Mapillary 
as sources. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to me and 
we will address it right away. 





For conditional (time-restricted) turn restrictions, we intend to use the 
schema described in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions 
. We encounter a more complex mapping of conditional turn restrictions 
sometimes, where mappers have used day_on / day_off and hour_on / hour_off. 
This is uncommon and as far as I know not recommended for mapping 
time-restricted turn restrictions. If we encounter these, our proposal would be 
to remove these tags and if necessary replace them with the preferred scheme as 
described on the wiki. Opinions? 





Best, 


Martijn 




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[Talk-ca] Suivi edition, pour une zone particulière

[Pierre Béland]

L'outil en ligne OSM Changeset Analyzer permet de filtrer les données récemment 
éditées selon différents critères et selon un bbox (on definit une zone avec 
coordonnées minimum et maximum).
Voir exemple pour le sud du 
Québec.http://osmcha.mapbox.com/?is_suspect=False_whitelisted=True=All=-74.47961945754%2C+45.00277713588%2C+-70.40376112532%2C+45.85179321058


  
Pierre 
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