Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread James 
If every license was perfect, we wouldnt need lawyers...

On Mar 4, 2017 10:03 AM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:

> On 2017-03-04 09:09 AM, James wrote:
> > As the LWG said, it's not a blanket acceptance of all OGL variants, but
> > if future licenses we come across are exactly the same(kdiff of text or
> > something as proof) except the city/entity name. We will have a strong
> > case that it is compatible with ODbL.
>
> Yes, it would definitely help to show that the text of a new licence is
> only trivially different from an accepted one. We'd still need to run it
> past the LWG, though. Any new licence creates new obligations for the
> Foundation. Sometimes these new obligations are trivial, but they need
> to be recognized.
>
> > So if future cities are looking to change their license they can use
> > Ottawa license as an example so they are sure it's compatible
>
> Ottawa's licence isn't exactly a shining example. It was good they
> changed their licence from a grievously incompatible one after you
> contacted them about it.
>
> Annoyances with the Ottawa licence include:
>
> * it still includes the third party rights exemption that was brought
>   over from the UK licence. I don't see any way that this will go away
>   for existing data.
>
> * it doesn't have the statement on compatibility that the UK OGL
>   licence includes. This would definitely ease adoption.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread Stewart C. Russell 
On 2017-03-04 09:09 AM, James wrote:
> As the LWG said, it's not a blanket acceptance of all OGL variants, but
> if future licenses we come across are exactly the same(kdiff of text or
> something as proof) except the city/entity name. We will have a strong
> case that it is compatible with ODbL.

Yes, it would definitely help to show that the text of a new licence is
only trivially different from an accepted one. We'd still need to run it
past the LWG, though. Any new licence creates new obligations for the
Foundation. Sometimes these new obligations are trivial, but they need
to be recognized.

> So if future cities are looking to change their license they can use
> Ottawa license as an example so they are sure it's compatible

Ottawa's licence isn't exactly a shining example. It was good they
changed their licence from a grievously incompatible one after you
contacted them about it.

Annoyances with the Ottawa licence include:

* it still includes the third party rights exemption that was brought
  over from the UK licence. I don't see any way that this will go away
  for existing data.

* it doesn't have the statement on compatibility that the UK OGL
  licence includes. This would definitely ease adoption.

cheers,
 Stewart




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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread James 
Weird there was the same thing yesterday in Ottawa with open.canada.ca

On Mar 4, 2017 9:39 AM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:

> On 2017-03-04 08:20 AM, Bjenk Ellefsen wrote:
> >
> > We can follow the same steps and workflow in the future if we
> potentially move to another city.
> > This is also something municipalities can use in defining their open
> data licenses.
>
> Yup - for that reason, I will be asking the LWG about the licences for
> Ontario, Toronto and Toronto Public library (yup, all different).
>
> For the record:
>
>  1) LWG's decision on Ottawa doesn't immediately open up all Canadian
> open data to be imported into OSM. The LWG, for now at least, plans
> to review them on a case by case base.
>
>  2) If you're wishing to get a new licence approved, the timeline from
> approaching the LWG to getting approval was about two months.
> Please build that delay into any critical path
>
> And belated happy Open Data Day! The reason I was late posting this (LWG
> gave me access to the draft minutes mid-afternoon) that I was in an
> all-day session with Government of Ontario open data people in Toronto.
> Government of Ontario has some very committed open data people.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread Stewart C. Russell 
On 2017-03-04 08:20 AM, Bjenk Ellefsen wrote:
> 
> We can follow the same steps and workflow in the future if we potentially 
> move to another city.
> This is also something municipalities can use in defining their open data 
> licenses. 

Yup - for that reason, I will be asking the LWG about the licences for
Ontario, Toronto and Toronto Public library (yup, all different).

For the record:

 1) LWG's decision on Ottawa doesn't immediately open up all Canadian
open data to be imported into OSM. The LWG, for now at least, plans
to review them on a case by case base.

 2) If you're wishing to get a new licence approved, the timeline from
approaching the LWG to getting approval was about two months.
Please build that delay into any critical path

And belated happy Open Data Day! The reason I was late posting this (LWG
gave me access to the draft minutes mid-afternoon) that I was in an
all-day session with Government of Ontario open data people in Toronto.
Government of Ontario has some very committed open data people.

cheers,
 Stewart


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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread James 
As the LWG said, it's not a blanket acceptance of all OGL variants, but if
future licenses we come across are exactly the same(kdiff of text or
something as proof) except the city/entity name. We will have a strong case
that it is compatible with ODbL. The problem lies when cities decide to add
lines/restrictions that can make it non-open.

So if future cities are looking to change their license they can use Ottawa
license as an example so they are sure it's compatible

On Mar 4, 2017 8:50 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> I assume then this means that other municipalities that use the municipal
> 2.0 version of the Treasury Board Open Data License can now have their bus
> stops imported if the local mappers wish to do so?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 3 March 2017 at 21:15, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
>
>> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I
>> have good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM
>> database.
>>
>> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/docume
>> nt/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft
>> so may not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>>
>> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>>
>> Approval of the following statement:
>>
>> ---
>>
>> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open
>> Data, Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction
>> with importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be
>> found here
>> 
>> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
>> 
>>
>> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
>> 
>> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>>  which in turn
>> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
>> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
>> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
>> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>>
>> The LWG has determined
>>
>>-
>>
>>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met by
>>adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and corresponding
>>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>>attribution requirement,
>>-
>>
>>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the
>>licence and referenced legislation,
>>
>> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap
>> dataset and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>>
>> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
>> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
>> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
>> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
>> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
>> case base.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>>
>>
>> I've also updated the wiki page.
>>
>> Have a great weekend!
>>  Stewart
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread john whelan 
I assume then this means that other municipalities that use the municipal
2.0 version of the Treasury Board Open Data License can now have their bus
stops imported if the local mappers wish to do so?

Thanks John

On 3 March 2017 at 21:15, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:

> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I have
> good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM database.
>
> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/document/d/
> 1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft so may
> not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>
> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>
> Approval of the following statement:
>
> ---
>
> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open Data,
> Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction with
> importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be found here
> 
> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
> 
>
> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
> 
> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>  which in turn
> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>
> The LWG has determined
>
>-
>
>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met by
>adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and corresponding
>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>attribution requirement,
>-
>
>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the licence
>and referenced legislation,
>
> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap dataset
> and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>
> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
> case base.
>
> ---
>
> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>
>
> I've also updated the wiki page.
>
> Have a great weekend!
>  Stewart
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-04 Thread Bjenk Ellefsen 

This is fantastic news!

Thank you everyone for your help!

We can follow the same steps and workflow in the future if we potentially move 
to another city.
This is also something municipalities can use in defining their open data 
licenses. 

Bjenk Ellefsen
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-03 Thread Denis Carriere 
Thanks Stewart for bringing this information forward.

We will surely make sure to spread the announcement locally here in Ottawa.

Enjoy the weekend!

*~~*
*Denis Carriere*
*GIS Software & Systems Specialist*

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 1:01 AM, James  wrote:

> Thank you scruss for digging up the meeting notes :)
>
> On Mar 4, 2017 12:40 AM, "Heather Leson"  wrote:
>
> Fantastic. Happy open data day!
>
> On 4 Mar 2017 04:12, "John Marshall"  wrote:
>
>> Great news
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2017 9:16 PM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:
>>
>>> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I
>>> have good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM
>>> database.
>>>
>>> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/docume
>>> nt/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft
>>> so may not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>>>
>>> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>>>
>>> Approval of the following statement:
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open
>>> Data, Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction
>>> with importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be
>>> found here
>>> 
>>> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
>>> 
>>>
>>> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
>>> 
>>> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>>>  which in turn
>>> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
>>> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
>>> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
>>> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>>>
>>> The LWG has determined
>>>
>>>-
>>>
>>>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met
>>>by adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and 
>>> corresponding
>>>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>>>attribution requirement,
>>>-
>>>
>>>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the
>>>licence and referenced legislation,
>>>
>>> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap
>>> dataset and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>>>
>>> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
>>> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
>>> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
>>> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
>>> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
>>> case base.
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've also updated the wiki page.
>>>
>>> Have a great weekend!
>>>  Stewart
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-03 Thread James 
Thank you scruss for digging up the meeting notes :)

On Mar 4, 2017 12:40 AM, "Heather Leson"  wrote:

Fantastic. Happy open data day!

On 4 Mar 2017 04:12, "John Marshall"  wrote:

> Great news
>
> On Mar 3, 2017 9:16 PM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:
>
>> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I
>> have good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM
>> database.
>>
>> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/docume
>> nt/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft
>> so may not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>>
>> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>>
>> Approval of the following statement:
>>
>> ---
>>
>> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open
>> Data, Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction
>> with importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be
>> found here
>> 
>> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
>> 
>>
>> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
>> 
>> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>>  which in turn
>> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
>> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
>> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
>> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>>
>> The LWG has determined
>>
>>-
>>
>>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met by
>>adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and corresponding
>>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>>attribution requirement,
>>-
>>
>>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the
>>licence and referenced legislation,
>>
>> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap
>> dataset and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>>
>> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
>> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
>> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
>> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
>> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
>> case base.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>>
>>
>> I've also updated the wiki page.
>>
>> Have a great weekend!
>>  Stewart
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-03 Thread Heather Leson 
Fantastic. Happy open data day!

On 4 Mar 2017 04:12, "John Marshall"  wrote:

> Great news
>
> On Mar 3, 2017 9:16 PM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:
>
>> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I
>> have good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM
>> database.
>>
>> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/docume
>> nt/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft
>> so may not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>>
>> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>>
>> Approval of the following statement:
>>
>> ---
>>
>> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open
>> Data, Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction
>> with importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be
>> found here
>> 
>> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
>> 
>>
>> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
>> 
>> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>>  which in turn
>> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
>> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
>> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
>> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>>
>> The LWG has determined
>>
>>-
>>
>>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met by
>>adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and corresponding
>>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>>attribution requirement,
>>-
>>
>>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the
>>licence and referenced legislation,
>>
>> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap
>> dataset and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>>
>> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
>> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
>> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
>> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
>> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
>> case base.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>>
>>
>> I've also updated the wiki page.
>>
>> Have a great weekend!
>>  Stewart
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-03 Thread John Marshall 
Great news

On Mar 3, 2017 9:16 PM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:

> I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I have
> good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data *can* be included in the OSM database.
>
> The minutes link - https://docs.google.com/document/d/
> 1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit - is still draft so may
> not be generally readable, so I've included the text in full below:
>
> *5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*
>
> Approval of the following statement:
>
> ---
>
> The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open Data,
> Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in conjunction with
> importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be found here
> 
> *http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0*
> 
>
> The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL Canada
> 
> *http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada*
>  which in turn
> is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the OGL Canada due
> to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa) and reference to the
> definition of "personal information" as defined in the "Ontario Municipal
> Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act",
>
> The LWG has determined
>
>-
>
>that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be met by
>adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and corresponding
>changeset source attribute values, and that there is no downstream
>attribution requirement,
>-
>
>that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the licence
>and referenced legislation,
>
> and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap dataset
> and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.
>
> In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely and
> have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
> incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this reason
> we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised versions of
> the OGL at this point in time and will continue to review them on a case by
> case base.
>
> ---
>
> Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.
>
>
> I've also updated the wiki page.
>
> Have a great weekend!
>  Stewart
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing with Statistics Canada (Ottawa ODL 2.0 is go!)

2017-03-03 Thread Stewart C. Russell 
I just got access to the OSMF LWG draft minutes from yesterday, and I
have good news: Ottawa ODL 2.0 data /can/ be included in the OSM database.

The minutes link -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit
- is still draft so may not be generally readable, so I've included the
text in full below:

*5. Statement on Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0 compatibility*

Approval of the following statement:

---

The LWG has been asked to determine the compatibility of Ottawa Open
Data, Licence Version 2.0 (Ottawa ODL 2.0) with the ODbL 2.0 in
conjunction with importing so licensed data. The text of the Ottawa
ODL 2.0 can be found

here_http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#open-data-licence-version-2-0_

The Ottawa ODL 2.0 is a localised version of the OGL

Canada_http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada_which
in turn is loosly based on the UK OGL. The changes relative to the
OGL Canada due to localisation are the licensor (the City of Ottawa)
and reference to the definition of "personal information" as defined
in the "Ontario Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of
Privacy Act",

The LWG has determined

  *

that the attribution requirements of the Ottawa ODL 2.0 can be
met by adding the required text to the wiki contributor page and
corresponding changeset source attribute values, and that there
is no downstream attribution requirement,

  *

that we are not using "Personal Information" as defined in the
licence and referenced legislation,

and that so licensed material can be included in the OpenStreetMap
dataset and distributed on ODbL 1.0 terms.

In the past the local variants of the OGL Canada have varied widely
and have in some cases included additional terms that have made them
incompatible with the ODbL and in some instances non-open. For this
reason we are not making a blanket statement on other such localised
versions of the OGL at this point in time and will continue to
review them on a case by case base.

---

Approved with 4 yes, 1 abstain.


I've also updated the wiki page.

Have a great weekend!
 Stewart

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