Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting

2017-10-02 Thread Rob Nickerson 
Wednesday seems best (just) as it's me, maybe Todd and maybe Andy. Thursday
is just Eike.

We can switch back to Thursday next month.

@Andy: Let me know re the pub.
@Todd: Will you be able to make it this Wednesday?

*Rob*

On 28 September 2017 at 22:22, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> Wed it is then. Not 100% sure I can make it currently.
>
>
>
> We did use the Shakespeare before but I think we found it a bit small and
> noisy (sky tv). Wherever we go its best that there isn’t a big screen in
> eye/ear shot.
>
> I have a friend that used the Wellington a lot. Will ask his view.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 27 September 2017 22:57
> *To:* Andy Robinson
> *Cc:* Brian Prangle; talk-gb-westmidlands
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting
>
>
>
> With two people saying no to Thursday (3 if you include me) this month, we
> might as well go for Wednesday 4th October.
>
> For pubs those in Birmingham may know better but here are some ideas. I
> suggest the first on the list unless anyone knows a reason to rule it out.
>
> - The gunmakers arms. Just round the corner from the bull. (seems to have
> it's own micro brewery)
>
> - Queen's Arms, Newhall St
>
> - The Shakespeare, Summer Row
>
> - The Wellington (no event on Wednesday / live folk music on Thursday). 
> Bennetts
> Hill
>
> - The Lost and Found. Bennetts Hill
>
> See you soon,
>
>
>
>
> *Rob*
>
>
>
> On 27 September 2017 at 10:16, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>
> I’m easy, though in Cheshire more and more.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 27 September 2017 08:15
> *To:* Rob Nickerson
> *Cc:* talk-gb-westmidlands
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting
>
>
>
> Hi Rob
>
> No progress on alternative venue and I definitely can't make Thurs 5th
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On 26 September 2017 at 23:59, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Are we back in Birmingham for Octobers meeting? I seem to recall some
> discussion about trying a new venue. Where did we get to on that one?
>
> Also I've screwed up my calendar so Thursday 5th October isn't looking
> that great for me :-( I might have to skip it but throwing the idea of a
> one off Wednesday meeting out there if that works for others. If not the go
> ahead without me on Thursday.
>
> *Rob*
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

2017-10-02 Thread Matt Ellery 
I agree with the idea that living_street isn't appropriate for the town
centre roads identified here. I did notice that New Road in Brighton
(mentioned in the shared space Wikipedia article) has also been changed to
living_street by Pete Owens, although he has added access tags as well.

East Street in Horsham is another (sort of) example of a shared space and
has been tagged with the pedestrian/access tags method by lakedistrict. In
fact, the OSM wiki example of highway=pedestrian with access tags gets
pretty close to what I think of as a shared space, although there are some
differences in the priorities that are implied.

So I'd be OK with any of highway=* plus access tags; shared_space=yes;
traffic_calming=shared_space; or maybe even go for duck tagging them as
highway=shared_space?

Regards,
Matt

On 2 October 2017 at 12:35, Adam Snape  wrote:

> The photo of Exhibition Rd on Wikipedia makes it look deserted. I guess it
> is sensible to photograph a new road layout at a quiet time.  I actually
> walked along it not so long ago when visiting a museum and it certainly
> seemed to still be used by quite a lot of motor traffic. Not that I think
> traffic volume should necessarily determine tagging, but examples such as
> this, the primary roads in Poynton, anda couple of thoroughfares in
> Preston, do rather weaken the comparison to Home Zones or woonerven. There
> traffic would typically be very light, very slow and almost entirely for
> access. The more I look at the above examples, the more I am convinced that
> the presence of shared use design doesn't make these thoroughfares
> comparable to living_streets
>
> Adam
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 08:56, Paul Berry  wrote:
>
>> One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country
>> (at least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's
>> part of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as
>> living street even though it is not residential.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road
>>
>> Should it be changed also?
>>
>> Regards,
>> *Paul*
>>
>> On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:
>>
>>> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>>>
>>> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>>>
>>> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>>>
>>> has no tags that I can see.
>>>
>>> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
>>> "special" type of traffic calming.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
 "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".

 A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
 safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
 moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
 little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
 well.

 On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:

 Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...

 The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.or
 g/viewforum.php?id=12 might be worth a read, since the shared space
 concept was pioneered there; https://forum.openstreetmap.or
 g/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about "shared_space" but a search
 for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole bunch more hits.

 Best Regards,

 Andy


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[Talk-GB] Merse Gateway

2017-10-02 Thread Andy Robinson 
Mersey Gateway bridge due to open Sunday.

 

Cheers

Andy

 

 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

2017-10-02 Thread Adam Snape 
The photo of Exhibition Rd on Wikipedia makes it look deserted. I guess it
is sensible to photograph a new road layout at a quiet time.  I actually
walked along it not so long ago when visiting a museum and it certainly
seemed to still be used by quite a lot of motor traffic. Not that I think
traffic volume should necessarily determine tagging, but examples such as
this, the primary roads in Poynton, anda couple of thoroughfares in
Preston, do rather weaken the comparison to Home Zones or woonerven. There
traffic would typically be very light, very slow and almost entirely for
access. The more I look at the above examples, the more I am convinced that
the presence of shared use design doesn't make these thoroughfares
comparable to living_streets

Adam

On 2 October 2017 at 08:56, Paul Berry  wrote:

> One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country (at
> least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's part
> of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as
> living street even though it is not residential.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road
>
> Should it be changed also?
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>>
>> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>>
>>
>> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>>
>> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>>
>> has no tags that I can see.
>>
>> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
>> "special" type of traffic calming.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
>>> "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".
>>>
>>> A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
>>> safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
>>> moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
>>> little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
>>> well.
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...
>>>
>>> The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.or
>>> g/viewforum.php?id=12 might be worth a read, since the shared space
>>> concept was pioneered there; https://forum.openstreetmap.or
>>> g/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about "shared_space" but a search
>>> for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole bunch more hits.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

2017-10-02 Thread Paul Berry 
One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country (at
least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's part
of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as living
street even though it is not residential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road

Should it be changed also?

Regards,
*Paul*

On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:

> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>
> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>
>
> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>
> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>
> has no tags that I can see.
>
> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
> "special" type of traffic calming.
>
> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>> Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
>> "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".
>>
>> A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
>> safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
>> moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
>> little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
>> well.
>>
>> On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>> Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...
>>
>> The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=12
>> might be worth a read, since the shared space concept was pioneered there;
>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about
>> "shared_space" but a search for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole
>> bunch more hits.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
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