Re: [Talk-GB] Reception desks

[Warin]

From tag info
amenity=reception_desk 121 uses
tourism=reception_desk 3 uses
office=reception_desk 0 uses

There are a few buildings named 'Reception', I think those are not named but 
used to indicate where the reception function is.
I have one of these myself.
 


On 15-Nov-17 10:03 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:

There was a proposal for this:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/amenity%3Dreception_desk

but since people could not agree on amenity vs. tourism vs. office
during the voting process, it got rejected.
There is probably a lengthy discussion on the tagging mailing list
archive about the proposal.

I still believe amenity=reception_desk could be used though.

regards

m.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Will Bailey  wrote:

Hi



I’m doing some internal mapping of hospitals in North Wales with the
objective of allowing people to navigate from their front doors to the front
desk of a relevant hospital department in our accessible journey planner. I
haven’t been able to find a definitive way to tag a reception desk – can
anyone help me with this please? Is their agreed approach to doing this?

Thanks!

Will


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Brian Prangle]

Like most discussions we get a useful survey of opinion and some
elucidation of the nature of the problem, with lots of suggestions, but no
actual decision on how we are going to proceed, except maintain the status
quo.  As one of the core objectives of the UK OSM Chapter is to "promote
and facilitate the release by organisations in the United Kingdom of  data
that is suitable for use in OpenStreetMap" I'd like to suggest we focus on
how we can achieve that objective and use this dataset as  a template for a
methodology we can adopt for future datasets. I might be wrong but I think
this is the first UK- wide release of data from a commercial body rather
than a public one and we need to encourage others.

Here's a strawman to start the discussion:

Use Harry Wood's improved visualisation as a progress checker, with a
colour change for  missing filling stations to red
Get active mappers to add/amend data around their localities or journeys
Change marker colour for filling stations that are "complete" with Shell
data where it is correct to green
Watch the map turn green as we make progress
We can get going on this straight away whilst we decide on POI checker or
Map Roulette as a better tool
Review progress- see if we need a Qarterly Project
After   say 3 months, we should see how much the active mapping community
can achieve, and maybe  import the remainder with a "Review=yes/no" tag
Ask Shell to release their data on the rollout of ev charging points once
we've made some progress (ev charging points is another story but as we
move away from fossil fuels OSM can demonstrate its utility in keeping up
to date for vehile navigation)

Regards

Brian

.

On 11 November 2017 at 17:36, Rory McCann  wrote:

> On 06/11/17 16:45, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > Some years ago, we had a data donation, here in the United Kingdom, of
> > data on cycle shops. These were imported into a tool which (if memory
> > serves) enabled users to compare them to existing entries, and import
> > the data to them if useful, or add new objects if necessary. I recall
> > that it didn't take long for the UK community to process them.
> >
> > Can that tool not be repurposed, and thereby avoid the friction that
> > imports like this seem sadly to cause?
>
> I have come across this tool which is designed for "merging" in 3rd
> party data into OSM in a semi-manual manner. But it's a bit rough around
> the edges, with no way to add new datasets (I think)
>
>  http://poichecker.com/en
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Miguel Sevilla-Callejo]

Very good news!

I was "fighting" last summer about the use of Welsh in OSM, here [0], here
[1] and here [2]

You could have a look in to the wiki [3] too

Have luck!

[0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/50943658

[1a] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-July/020416.html
[1b]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-August/020465.html

[2] https://twitter.com/msevilla00/status/895940842321567744

[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales

--
*Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
Doctor en Geografía

On 15 November 2017 at 15:55, Ben Proctor  wrote:

>
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Good to hear.
>>
>> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
>> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
>> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
>> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
>> The style also has blue motorways!
>>
>
> Hi Jerry
>
>
>
> That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)
>
>
>>
>> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
>> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
>> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
>> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
>> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
>> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
>> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
>> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>>
>
> There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this
> bit:
> - the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
> very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
> - the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
> something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
> only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
> a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>>
>>> This is our announcement
>>>
>>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>>
>>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>>
>>> We hope to:
>>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>>> project)
>>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>>> language uses
>>>
>>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>>
>>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>>
>>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any
>>> suggestions, insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc
>>> would be very gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Proctor
>>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> Technical Director
> b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
> *The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK
>
>
> The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
> Registered number: 8857719.
> Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Andy Townsend]

https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=10=51.8697=-5.068 
also shows Welsh names in Welsh-speaking parts of Wales (using a .poly 
from Jerry, actually), but that's really a solution to a different 
problem (described at 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/42069 ).


On 15/11/2017 15:24, SK53 wrote:
I heartily agree that both english & welsh names need to be shown side 
by side, for this reason can I suggest that when editing names to add 
a Welsh name if the existing name is English (London Road for 
instance) also add a name:en tag. If we can work just with name:cy & 
name:en tags in rendering we can achieve a lot more.


"Displaying side by side" (perhaps one bracketed after the other) is 
very doable in lua; 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=53.233295=-0.991688 
is an example of that in another context.


The basic overlay idea works for street & place names (and one can 
offset welsh language names in one direction and english names in the 
opposite ones. Finding colours which dont create conflicts and 
legibility issues is another thing. I'll see if I can fish out an 
example from my carto rendering experiments.


I suspect that an overlay may not be the way to go (if possible) because 
you won't get collision avoidance between the overlay and the main 
map*.  Here's an example of that: 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=53.2387=-1.01152 
those two names apply to the same bit of track but Mapnik's clever 
enough to ensure there's no clash.


Best Regards,

Andy

* although maybe having the overlay also containing every other piece of 
text, but in "transparent on a transparent background", may work!


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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[SK53]

I heartily agree that both english & welsh names need to be shown side by
side, for this reason can I suggest that when editing names to add a Welsh
name if the existing name is English (London Road for instance) also add a
name:en tag. If we can work just with name:cy & name:en tags in rendering
we can achieve a lot more.

The basic overlay idea works for street & place names (and one can offset
welsh language names in one direction and english names in the opposite
ones. Finding colours which dont create conflicts and legibility issues is
another thing. I'll see if I can fish out an example from my carto
rendering experiments.

Jerry


On 15 November 2017 at 14:55, Ben Proctor  wrote:

>
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Good to hear.
>>
>> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
>> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
>> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
>> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
>> The style also has blue motorways!
>>
>
> Hi Jerry
>
>
>
> That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)
>
>
>>
>> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
>> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
>> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
>> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
>> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
>> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
>> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
>> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>>
>
> There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this
> bit:
> - the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
> very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
> - the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
> something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
> only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
> a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>>
>>> This is our announcement
>>>
>>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>>
>>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>>
>>> We hope to:
>>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>>> project)
>>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>>> language uses
>>>
>>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>>
>>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>>
>>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any
>>> suggestions, insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc
>>> would be very gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Proctor
>>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> Technical Director
> b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
> *The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK
> 
>
>
> The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
> Registered number: 8857719.
> Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
> 
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Ben Proctor]

On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Good to hear.
>
> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
> The style also has blue motorways!
>

Hi Jerry



That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)


>
> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>

There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this bit:
- the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
- the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...


>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>
>> This is our announcement
>>
>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>
>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>
>> We hope to:
>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>> project)
>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>> language uses
>>
>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>
>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>
>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
>> insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
>> very gratefully received.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>> Ben Proctor
>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>
>


-- 
Ben Proctor
Technical Director
b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
*The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK


The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
Registered number: 8857719.
Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[SK53]

Hi Ben,

Good to hear.

I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
The style also has blue motorways!

Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.

Regards,

Jerry

On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>
> This is our announcement
>
> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>
> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>
> We hope to:
> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
> project)
> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to encourage
> more mapping in Wales
> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
> language uses
>
> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>
> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but I'm
> conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>
> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
> insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
> very gratefully received.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Hospital Departments (was Re: Reception desks)

[SK53]

In general health facility tagging on OSM is very poor. About the best you
can say that amenity=hospital actual means is that there is some kind of
health facitlity at the location rather than a hospital. Worldwide there
are far more amenity=hospital than amenity=doctors. This has also been true
in parts of the UK (there was a particular batch around Wrythe Green in S
London which I think now has been resolved).

The various schemes on the wiki have not had much uptake, almost certainly
because they are too complex and also fail to account for common scenarios.

The current main things we need to get generally right & consistent are:

   - *GP practices*: these will normally be amenity=doctors
   - *Health Centres*. Many larger GP practices will be called  Health
   Centre (or more rarely  Medical Centre). Again in general I think most
   of these will be amenity=doctors. The ones which need to be mapped as
   distinct entities are where a single health centre is shared between
   several GP practices, and in addition there may be other services offered
   in the same building. amenity=health_centre is fine for this, although
   there is a significant usage of healthcare=centre as well. I think the
   latter tag should be avoided: it is hopelessly ambiguous as a wide range of
   different healthcare facilities will have names ending in Centre (such as
   my local daycase hospital which is called the NHS Treatment Centre, or NHS
   drop-in centres).
   - *Clinics*. clinic is probably really a term to be avoided because it
   tends to have multiple meanings: a) a session
   

   where a doctor, nurse or other healthcare worker sees patients (Dr Y's
   Clinic); b) dedicated areas in hospitals which are used for various kinds
   of out-patient appointments, these may be completely general (Out Patients
   Clinics 1-4 in Birmingham QEH), general but specific (Rare Diseases clinic
   in the same hospital), or specific (ENT Clinic, Eye Clinic). I certainly
   use amenity=clinic for these; c) standalone places, often called XXX Clinic
   (or Centre) which offer a broader range of primary care services than a
   typical health centre. (these used to be common in Portugal where they were
   known as polyclincs, which may be a useful term for our purposes; d) small
   places offering healthcare related services such as single-handed
   physiotherapy practices (one added in Hickling recently). I suggest that we
   accept amenity=clinic for b) & c), but add something like clinic:type which
   could be hospital, polyclinic etc. Broadly I don't see good reasons for
   trying to map (a) as the location of these will change (and many primary
   healthcare clinics move around the local area to limit patient
   inconvenience.
   - *Multiservice Centres*. These seem to emerging as a recent trend. We
   have at least 3 in Nottingham (Clifton, St Ann's, and Bulwell). They
   include social housing, healthcare and social services on a single site
   (building). The 3 know include multiple GP practices. I'm not aware of a
   good tag for them, but amenity=social_facility is a good start.
   - *Single site Multiple Hospitals*. Not as uncommon as one might think.
   The main QEH has at least 2 other hospitals on site: the Birmingham Women's
   Hospital and the MoD facility within the main building. The NHS Treatment
   Centre at QMC Nottingham is a separate institution run by Circle (and I
   think they have others). In both these cases the main campus has got the
   names and tags of the principle hospital on site, and the other hospitals
   are mapped individually.
   - *Hospital Types*. Apart from emergency=yes to indicate hospitals with
   an A department, I'm not aware of any tags to separate out different
   hospitals by role. If we assume the standard hospital is a district
   hospital with the typical mix of main specialties then it is the other
   hospitals which need to be noted, and particularly those with a) limited
   facilities (GP hospitals, cottage hospitals); and b) totally specialised
   such as the National Hospital, the Marsden etc. It's certainly also useful
   to know which hospitals are regional centres. A complication here is that
   in larger cities all the local hospitals may be managed together, so that
   certain illnesses and conditions will only be treated at one location.
   Psychiatric facilities and other places were patients are in for a longer
   time (almost all will not take patients referred from a GP, but from a
   hospital) also should be distinguished.
   - *Departments
   
*&
   *Specialties
   
*.
   Department seems too vague a term (at least from looking at the NHS Data
   

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 15/11/17 13:18, Adam Snape wrote:
Interesting, but if your interpretation of the law regarding red/green 
distinctions is correct, why do the majority of road road atlases on 
sale and most maps (both open and proprietary) supplied by Ordnance 
Survey maintain the red/green colouring?


OS certainly have thought about colour blindness, e.g. 
, 
and .  My 
guess, though, is that paper maps are not legally a service, unlike web 
sites, so are immune from the legislation.  There probably also haven't 
been test cases.


Incidentally, my father is red/green colour blind and can tell the 
difference between the two shadesused in road atlases. He does however 


Varying the shade as well as the colour, is one way of making maps 
colour blind friendly.  My understanding, though, is that the degree of 
colour blindness varies, even within the predominant type found in UK 
males.  Also colour vision is affected by the yellowing of the eye with 
age, so something that works for one person, may not do so for another.


The Wired article, above, indicates that there were problems with 
non-traditional colours for roads, which were resolved by creating 
lightness/darkness contrasts.



sometimes struggle with the picking out  the green dashed rights of way 
on the OS 1:25K Explorer mapping.


Googling "colour blindness os maps" throws up a lot of potentially 
interesting material on the subject.



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[Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Ben Proctor]

Hi all

The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
some work around the Welsh language on OSM.

This is our announcement

In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/

In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at the
last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.

We hope to:
- create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
project)
- do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to encourage
more mapping in Wales
- encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh language
uses

The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be looking
for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
infrastructure viable into the medium term.

We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but I'm
conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.

We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
very gratefully received.

Cheers

-- 
Ben Proctor
ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Adam Snape]

Interesting, but if your interpretation of the law regarding red/green
distinctions is correct, why do the majority of road road atlases on sale
and most maps (both open and proprietary) supplied by Ordnance Survey
maintain the red/green colouring?

Incidentally, my father is red/green colour blind and can tell the
difference between the two shadesused in road atlases. He does however
sometimes struggle with the picking out  the green dashed rights of way on
the OS 1:25K Explorer mapping.

Adam

On 15 November 2017 at 11:33, David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 15/11/17 01:53, Gervase Markham wrote:
>
>> Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads?:-)  Or do people
>> not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?
>>
>
> Whilst the OSM map renderings probably fall in a grey area, between public
> services and private hobby, for any map rendering provided as a service to
> the general public, especially in a part of the world with a high
> prevalence of red-green colour blindness, using just a red-green
> distinction would be illegal under anti-discrimination law.
>
> I'm not colour blind, but I rather suspect that most OSM cartographers
> have not considered people with vision defects in their decisions.
>
> The other accessibility issue that is likely to arise is low colour
> contrasts.  Web sites will fail accessibility guidelines, if, when you
> reduce them to black and white with the same luminance components, there is
> insufficient contrast.
>
> The UK philosophy on law is to have laws which say things will be safe,
> accessible, etc., and then use non-legislative standards (building
> regulations approved documents, W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines,
> etc), to try and judge whether the law is being obeyed).  As such, you will
> not find a law that explicitly states you can't rely on just a red-green
> distinction.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 15/11/2017 12:15, Dave F wrote:


I thought the French rendering showed an aligned zebra crossing, but 
it appears to have been rescinded. Anyone know why?




Correction, it does. Two in fact. The grey zebra (uncontrolled & the man 
crossing a zebra to the left on Corn St.(traffic_signals)


http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19=51.379=-2.36216=B00FF

I think the rotation of the zebra works well.



Cheers
DaveF




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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 15/11/2017 11:25, Andy Townsend wrote:

(somewhat belatedly, re crossings)

On 02/11/2017 15:42, Dave F wrote:



Apologies, forgot to permalink. Try:
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=20=51.3779057=-2.35836 



Yes, the way these are shown is a bit rubbish.  I'm assuming that it's 
not possible to render a symbol for a node "parallel to the way that 
it is part of"


I thought the French rendering showed an aligned zebra crossing, but it 
appears to have been rescinded. Anyone know why?



, but any suggestions for a same-size replacement for


Until a more specific icon is agreed, how about a generic dot as used by 
CycleMap? https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.37871/-2.36074=C


Cheers
DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 15/11/17 01:53, Gervase Markham wrote:

Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads?:-)  Or do people
not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?


Whilst the OSM map renderings probably fall in a grey area, between 
public services and private hobby, for any map rendering provided as a 
service to the general public, especially in a part of the world with a 
high prevalence of red-green colour blindness, using just a red-green 
distinction would be illegal under anti-discrimination law.


I'm not colour blind, but I rather suspect that most OSM cartographers 
have not considered people with vision defects in their decisions.


The other accessibility issue that is likely to arise is low colour 
contrasts.  Web sites will fail accessibility guidelines, if, when you 
reduce them to black and white with the same luminance components, there 
is insufficient contrast.


The UK philosophy on law is to have laws which say things will be safe, 
accessible, etc., and then use non-legislative standards (building 
regulations approved documents, W3C's Web Content Accessibility 
Guidelines, etc), to try and judge whether the law is being obeyed).  As 
such, you will not find a law that explicitly states you can't rely on 
just a red-green distinction.


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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

(somewhat belatedly, re crossings)

On 02/11/2017 15:42, Dave F wrote:



Apologies, forgot to permalink. Try:
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=20=51.3779057=-2.35836 



Yes, the way these are shown is a bit rubbish.  I'm assuming that it's 
not possible to render a symbol for a node "parallel to the way that it 
is part of", but any suggestions for a same-size replacement for 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/blob/master/symbols/highway_crossing.png 
and optionally 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/blob/master/symbols/highway_crossing2.png 
would definitely be considered.  See also 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/commit/2077839ba0f51a565991cad7be2697896d0737d2 
.


Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

On 15/11/2017 07:48, Adam Snape wrote:
Most map users don't understand the distinction between primary 
(green) and non-primary (red) A-roads so I understand why not all maps 
use it. Since OSM makes this distinction anyway it makes sense to use 
the standard uk green/red colour scheme in the UK map.


I believe that http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/ still has red trunk 
roads with a slightly enhanced border.  I made that change because it 
was difficult to see trunk roads in woodland etc.  See 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=-24.99256=135.02047 
for a map legend.


One change that I believe that Nick has made is to change bridleways 
from blue (see 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99289=135.08475 
and 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=51.06398=-0.88857 
) to red see the top of http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/ .


Best Regards,
Andy


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[Talk-GB] Osmand, was "Re: The OSM UK map"

[Andy Townsend]

On 15/11/2017 09:13, Lester Caine wrote:


I keep looking at OSMAND and thinking ... I must look at what is needed
for a UK road theme there we have American and German! Vector display
really is the way forward then one can select the right default for any
area.

The last time I looked at it (last year), I used 
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=30682 for reference for 
"OsmAndMapCreator" . 
http://osmand.net/help/docs/TechnicalArticles_Wiki-orig.txt gave a clue 
where the docs are (but things were in a state of flux and may have 
changed).


See also

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE_talk:OsmAndMapCreator
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:OsmAndMapCreator

and

http://osmand.net/help/docs/Custom_Rendering_How-To.htm

https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-resources/blob/master/obf_creation/rendering_types.xml#L5170

contains

    
        
        
    

so I suspect that you don't have to worry about the "horrible" XML 
elsewhere and just add your own definitions.


I never got to a proof of concept though because (a) even using 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html online the data usage is 
minimal and (b) I now have a phone with a SIM card with coverage in most 
of the places I actually go.


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Reception desks

[Marc Gemis]

There was a proposal for this:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/amenity%3Dreception_desk

but since people could not agree on amenity vs. tourism vs. office
during the voting process, it got rejected.
There is probably a lengthy discussion on the tagging mailing list
archive about the proposal.

I still believe amenity=reception_desk could be used though.

regards

m.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Will Bailey  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I’m doing some internal mapping of hospitals in North Wales with the
> objective of allowing people to navigate from their front doors to the front
> desk of a relevant hospital department in our accessible journey planner. I
> haven’t been able to find a definitive way to tag a reception desk – can
> anyone help me with this please? Is their agreed approach to doing this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Will
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Hospital Departments (was Re: Reception desks)

[Andy Townsend]

Actually, prompted by Will's question below, I've always wondered about 
the best way to map hospital departments.  There's plenty of examples of 
mapping of "clinics", which would work for the more standalone 
departments, but there are also those that don't deal with external 
patients but only with those referred internally.


Obviously the people on the "tagging" list 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging may have a view too, 
but it struck me as worth asking here first.


Best Regards,
Andy

On 15/11/2017 10:43, Will Bailey wrote:


Hi

I’m doing some internal mapping of hospitals in North Wales with the 
objective of allowing people to navigate from their front doors to the 
front desk of a relevant hospital department in our accessible journey 
planner. I haven’t been able to find a definitive way to tag a 
reception desk – can anyone help me with this please? Is their agreed 
approach to doing this?


Thanks!

Will



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[Talk-GB] Reception desks

[Will Bailey]

Hi

I'm doing some internal mapping of hospitals in North Wales with the objective 
of allowing people to navigate from their front doors to the front desk of a 
relevant hospital department in our accessible journey planner. I haven't been 
able to find a definitive way to tag a reception desk - can anyone help me with 
this please? Is their agreed approach to doing this?

Thanks!

Will
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Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Lester Caine]

On 15/11/17 07:48, Adam Snape wrote:
> Most map users don't understand the distinction between primary (green)
> and non-primary (red) A-roads so I understand why not all maps use it.
> Since OSM makes this distinction anyway it makes sense to use the
> standard uk green/red colour scheme in the UK map.

I keep looking at OSMAND and thinking ... I must look at what is needed
for a UK road theme there we have American and German! Vector display
really is the way forward then one can select the right default for any
area.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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