Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
My experience has been that although a missing FHRS entry is a useful warning of what to resurvey, there are too many false positives to remove businesses without checking on the ground. -- Andrew From: GregrsSent: 21 January 2018 21:25:07 To: Rob Nickerson Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over. Hi Rob, On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 03:58:37PM +, Rob Nickerson wrote: >I don't think it has been mentioned, but having the link to FHRS is one >way of keeping on top of changes in places where we have fewer active >mappers. That is, by monitoring for changes in FHRS we can identify >closures, takeovers, new cafes etc (assuming a detectable change in the >source data). In a way this is similar to the ref:navads tag that was >added to Shell petrol station data -> it is now a much simpler task of >finding out what has changed by comparing to third party data thus >allowing mappers to hone in on relevant areas. > >If anyone wants to have a go at building something that would be >amazing. Similarly we still have the idea of visualising a "crap data" >map floating around (e.g. map of Lloyds TSB, map of Total petrol >stations, BHS etc..). FHRS is certainly a good way to keep on top of changes, and in fact you can already use my FHRS/OSM comparison tool [https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/] to view fhrs:id tags that don't currently match an establishment in the FHRS database, such as an establishment that has closed down. You can look out for red blobs on the map (which may also be matched OSM entities with mismatched/missing postcodes) or examine the table with the heading 'Mismatched fhrs:id tags'. Hope it's useful. Thanks, Greg -- Twitter: @gregrs_uk http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org PGP key ID: 64907C8A Fingerprint: EBD1 077F CCDD 841E A505 3FAA D2E8 592E 6490 7C8A ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
Hi Rob, On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 03:58:37PM +, Rob Nickerson wrote: I don't think it has been mentioned, but having the link to FHRS is one way of keeping on top of changes in places where we have fewer active mappers. That is, by monitoring for changes in FHRS we can identify closures, takeovers, new cafes etc (assuming a detectable change in the source data). In a way this is similar to the ref:navads tag that was added to Shell petrol station data -> it is now a much simpler task of finding out what has changed by comparing to third party data thus allowing mappers to hone in on relevant areas. If anyone wants to have a go at building something that would be amazing. Similarly we still have the idea of visualising a "crap data" map floating around (e.g. map of Lloyds TSB, map of Total petrol stations, BHS etc..). FHRS is certainly a good way to keep on top of changes, and in fact you can already use my FHRS/OSM comparison tool [https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/] to view fhrs:id tags that don't currently match an establishment in the FHRS database, such as an establishment that has closed down. You can look out for red blobs on the map (which may also be matched OSM entities with mismatched/missing postcodes) or examine the table with the heading 'Mismatched fhrs:id tags'. Hope it's useful. Thanks, Greg -- Twitter: @gregrs_uk http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org PGP key ID: 64907C8A Fingerprint: EBD1 077F CCDD 841E A505 3FAA D2E8 592E 6490 7C8A signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
Hi all, On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 01:12:07PM +, Mark Goodge wrote: If there has been a change of ownership, then yes, the old FHRS rating doesn't carry over to the new one. So it would need to be deleted from OSM as well. Whilst it's great to include the fhrs:id for an establishment and perhaps the fhrs:authority, it's generally not considered useful to store ephemeral data such as the FHRS rating in OSM as this can change regularly and it's fairly simple to fetch this for a particular establishment using the FHRS API given the fhrs:id. Thanks, Greg -- Twitter: @gregrs_uk http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org PGP key ID: 64907C8A Fingerprint: EBD1 077F CCDD 841E A505 3FAA D2E8 592E 6490 7C8A signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
Thanks everyone The pub I was looking at has a FHRS reference under its new name as "awaiting inspection". This is useful confirmation that its old inspection is not valid. On 21 January 2018 at 15:58, Rob Nickersonwrote: > Hi, > > I don't think it has been mentioned, but having the link to FHRS is one > way of keeping on top of changes in places where we have fewer active > mappers. That is, by monitoring for changes in FHRS we can identify > closures, takeovers, new cafes etc (assuming a detectable change in the > source data). In a way this is similar to the ref:navads tag that was added > to Shell petrol station data -> it is now a much simpler task of finding > out what has changed by comparing to third party data thus allowing mappers > to hone in on relevant areas. > > If anyone wants to have a go at building something that would be amazing. > Similarly we still have the idea of visualising a "crap data" map floating > around (e.g. map of Lloyds TSB, map of Total petrol stations, BHS etc..). > > *Rob* > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Camera and OSM leaflets
P.S. the leaflet is an updated version of the one that has been translated an adapted over the years. It now looks like this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_FOSSGIS_2017_English.jpeg *Rob* On 21 January 2018 at 16:03, Rob Nickersonwrote: > Hi all, > > In case you missed it in the recent OSM UK newsletter, the 360 camera is > now available to rent. Please see https://osmuk.org/360-degree- > camera-rental/ > > And as a reminder, thanks to the generosity of our friends in Germany, we > still have plenty of the OSM leaflets to distribute. I will include some > with the camera rental but can also send them direct to anyone (member or > non-member) who would like them. Please contact me so I can arrange > postage. Due to limited funds you will have to cover the postage fees but > this should be a lot less than for the camera as I can send them in a large > letter (if not too many) or non-recorded delivery if you want a box full. > > Best wishes, > *Rob* > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Camera and OSM leaflets
Hi - good work. One thing not mentioned on that website - is there any particular use you'd like to see? Are there particular things in need of recording this way, eg urban or rural, high-traffic or low-traffic? Best Dan 2018-01-21 16:03 GMT+00:00 Rob Nickerson: > Hi all, > > In case you missed it in the recent OSM UK newsletter, the 360 camera is now > available to rent. Please see https://osmuk.org/360-degree-camera-rental/ > > And as a reminder, thanks to the generosity of our friends in Germany, we > still have plenty of the OSM leaflets to distribute. I will include some > with the camera rental but can also send them direct to anyone (member or > non-member) who would like them. Please contact me so I can arrange postage. > Due to limited funds you will have to cover the postage fees but this should > be a lot less than for the camera as I can send them in a large letter (if > not too many) or non-recorded delivery if you want a box full. > > Best wishes, > Rob > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Camera and OSM leaflets
Hi all, In case you missed it in the recent OSM UK newsletter, the 360 camera is now available to rent. Please see https://osmuk.org/360-degree-camera-rental/ And as a reminder, thanks to the generosity of our friends in Germany, we still have plenty of the OSM leaflets to distribute. I will include some with the camera rental but can also send them direct to anyone (member or non-member) who would like them. Please contact me so I can arrange postage. Due to limited funds you will have to cover the postage fees but this should be a lot less than for the camera as I can send them in a large letter (if not too many) or non-recorded delivery if you want a box full. Best wishes, *Rob* ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
Hi, I don't think it has been mentioned, but having the link to FHRS is one way of keeping on top of changes in places where we have fewer active mappers. That is, by monitoring for changes in FHRS we can identify closures, takeovers, new cafes etc (assuming a detectable change in the source data). In a way this is similar to the ref:navads tag that was added to Shell petrol station data -> it is now a much simpler task of finding out what has changed by comparing to third party data thus allowing mappers to hone in on relevant areas. If anyone wants to have a go at building something that would be amazing. Similarly we still have the idea of visualising a "crap data" map floating around (e.g. map of Lloyds TSB, map of Total petrol stations, BHS etc..). *Rob* ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
On 20/01/2018 22:39, Andrew Black wrote: If a pub has been taken over by a chain (and changed name), should one delete FHRS info. My gut feeling is yes but. ... If there has been a change of ownership, then yes, the old FHRS rating doesn't carry over to the new one. So it would need to be deleted from OSM as well. If it's merely a change of trading name, though, then it does remain applicable, and can be left on the data too. You'd need local knowledge to tell the difference, in most cases. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
2018-01-21 12:14 GMT+00:00 Dave F: > > On 21/01/2018 12:09, Philip Barnes wrote: > > rarely accepted by the locals,... > > > loc_name IMHO keeping one old_name is good practice, in particular to allow a little lag time for people who might search OSM data for "the hare and hounds" not yet knowing it's been changed to something else. No need to be very formal about it, and no need to keep more than one old name (in most cases). (NB "old_name" is very common in tags, "old:name" is not) Cheers Dan ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
On 21/01/2018 12:09, Philip Barnes wrote: rarely accepted by the locals,... loc_name DaveF ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 00:39 +, Dave F wrote: > Bearing in mind OSM isn't a historical database, how far back > should > we go with old:? These things are worth keeping, trendy names dreamed up by marketing types are rarely accepted by the locals, they will go on referring to a pub by its proper name. Pubs have been landmarks for generations and one day someone with a sense of place, and history, will change it back. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.
Hi all, On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:36:34AM +, Dave F wrote: I've been prefixing them with disused: as the fhrs:id will be probably be updated after a new review. I found keeping the old one was useful as a checking reference. Prefixing with disused, old or not could be useful. (I haven't checked which is in more frequent use.) EdLoach added an issue for the FHRS/OSM comparison tool that suggests the use of not:fhrs:id. Whilst the functionality he describes isn't currently supported by the tool, I will try to get round to adding it at some point: see https://github.com/gregrs-uk/python-fhrs-osm/issues/50 I've also compiled a list of disused: objects to send to my LA's hygiene team in an attempt to get them to update their database. Not much luck with that. If you're on Twitter, it might be worth tweeting @drsiant (Head of Information Management at FSA) as she seems keen for this sort of exchange of information. I would also agree with Colin that you should definitely leave the address data in place. Also the source:addr=FHRS Open Data should be left in place if present and probably added if not present. Thanks, Greg -- Twitter: @gregrs_uk http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org PGP key ID: 64907C8A Fingerprint: EBD1 077F CCDD 841E A505 3FAA D2E8 592E 6490 7C8A signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb