Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Rob Nickerson]

> so something should be defined and documented

I agree with my fellow mappers. There is no need to add this to the UK
tagging guideline.

> motorways indicated by the international chop sticks sign

That is brilliant. I have to find a way to use that expression somewhere :-)

P.S. I wish other countries would put more speed signs up. Or at least the
car rental should tell you to pay extra attention for the town name signs
as these indicate a lower speed limit. Was nearly caught out by a speed
camera on one of these! My eyes are just not trained to look for the town
name signs.

Regards,
*Rob*
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

By not implicitly signed I mean there is no number on a NSL sign, the limit 
changes between 60/70 when roads change between single and dual carriageways 
and there is no explicit 70 sign on motorways.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 30 April 2018 20:31:11 BST, Adam Snape  wrote:
>I'm not sure I'd call any of the national speed limits implicit. All
>are
>explicit in that they are (or should be) physically signed at least
>where
>the limit changes, so they are verifiable rather than merely implied.
>The
>only practical difference is whether small repeater signs are required
>to
>remind drivers of the speed limit and (as Phil says) in these days
>zonal
>20mph limits can sometimes be implemented without repeater signs.
>
>Adam
>
>On 30 April 2018 at 20:05, Philip Barnes  wrote:
>
>> For practical purposes the only non-implicitly signed speed limits
>are
>> national speed limits, (start indicated by black diagonal on white)
>and
>> motorways indicated by the international chop sticks sign.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> On 30 April 2018 19:54:37 BST, Tobias Zwick 
>wrote:
>>
>>> I apologize for the misunderstanding, this is about implicit speed
>>> limits when there is *no sign* that ordains another speed limit, of
>course.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Tobias
>>>
>>> On 30/04/2018 20:50, Brian Prangle wrote:
>>>
  You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major
>roads
  in in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits
>are
  being reduced to 20mph in built up areas

  Regards

  Brian

  On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick > wrote:

  Hi there

  On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the
>wiki lists
  the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":

  GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway
>(=70 mph)

  I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
  road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit
>speed limit
  of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no
>GB:urban,
  GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should
>be defined
  and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.

  My question:
  How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for
>built-up
  areas applies?

  The question is motivated by an issue report for
>StreetComplete [2]

  Cheers
  Tobias

  [1]
 
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
 
>

  [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
  

 --

  Talk-GB mailing list
  Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
  



>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

Also, I don't think we need a special tagging scheme just because each
individual road is not signed. We don't do so for analogous restrictions
such weight, width or access restrictions which are generally only signed
when entering or leaving the zone where the restriction applies.

Adam

On 30 April 2018 at 20:31, Adam Snape  wrote:

> I'm not sure I'd call any of the national speed limits implicit. All are
> explicit in that they are (or should be) physically signed at least where
> the limit changes, so they are verifiable rather than merely implied. The
> only practical difference is whether small repeater signs are required to
> remind drivers of the speed limit and (as Phil says) in these days zonal
> 20mph limits can sometimes be implemented without repeater signs.
>
> Adam
>
> On 30 April 2018 at 20:05, Philip Barnes  wrote:
>
>> For practical purposes the only non-implicitly signed speed limits are
>> national speed limits, (start indicated by black diagonal on white) and
>> motorways indicated by the international chop sticks sign.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> On 30 April 2018 19:54:37 BST, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>>
>>> I apologize for the misunderstanding, this is about implicit speed
>>> limits when there is *no sign* that ordains another speed limit, of course.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Tobias
>>>
>>> On 30/04/2018 20:50, Brian Prangle wrote:
>>>
  You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major roads
  in in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits are
  being reduced to 20mph in built up areas

  Regards

  Brian

  On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick > wrote:

  Hi there

  On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
  the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":

  GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 
 mph)

  I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
  road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
  of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
  GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be 
 defined
  and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.

  My question:
  How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
  areas applies?

  The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]

  Cheers
  Tobias

  [1]
  
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
  
 

  [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
  

 --

  Talk-GB mailing list
  Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
  



>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

I'm not sure I'd call any of the national speed limits implicit. All are
explicit in that they are (or should be) physically signed at least where
the limit changes, so they are verifiable rather than merely implied. The
only practical difference is whether small repeater signs are required to
remind drivers of the speed limit and (as Phil says) in these days zonal
20mph limits can sometimes be implemented without repeater signs.

Adam

On 30 April 2018 at 20:05, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> For practical purposes the only non-implicitly signed speed limits are
> national speed limits, (start indicated by black diagonal on white) and
> motorways indicated by the international chop sticks sign.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> On 30 April 2018 19:54:37 BST, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>
>> I apologize for the misunderstanding, this is about implicit speed
>> limits when there is *no sign* that ordains another speed limit, of course.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tobias
>>
>> On 30/04/2018 20:50, Brian Prangle wrote:
>>
>>>  You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major roads
>>>  in in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits are
>>>  being reduced to 20mph in built up areas
>>>
>>>  Regards
>>>
>>>  Brian
>>>
>>>  On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick >>  > wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi there
>>>
>>>  On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
>>>  the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":
>>>
>>>  GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 
>>> mph)
>>>
>>>  I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
>>>  road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
>>>  of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
>>>  GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
>>>  and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
>>>
>>>  My question:
>>>  How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
>>>  areas applies?
>>>
>>>  The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]
>>>
>>>  Cheers
>>>  Tobias
>>>
>>>  [1]
>>>  
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>  [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
>>>  
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>  Talk-GB mailing list
>>>  Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
>>>  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

For practical purposes the only non-implicitly signed speed limits are national 
speed limits, (start indicated by black diagonal on white) and motorways 
indicated by the international chop sticks sign.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 30 April 2018 19:54:37 BST, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>I apologize for the misunderstanding, this is about implicit speed
>limits when there is *no sign* that ordains another speed limit, of
>course.
>
>Cheers
>Tobias
>
>On 30/04/2018 20:50, Brian Prangle wrote:
>> You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major
>roads
>> in in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits are
>> being reduced to 20mph in built up areas
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there
>> 
>> On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki
>lists
>> the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":
>> 
>> GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway
>(=70 mph)
>> 
>> I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
>> road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed
>limit
>> of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no
>GB:urban,
>> GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be
>defined
>> and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
>> 
>> My question:
>> How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for
>built-up
>> areas applies?
>> 
>> The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete
>[2]
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Tobias
>> 
>> [1]
>>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
>>
>
>> 
>> [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>___
>Talk-GB mailing list
>Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

Whilst in theory there is an implicit 30mph when street lights are present and 
there are no repeater signs indicating a higher limit then the speed limit is 
30 mph. It has nothing to do with urban, the same rule will apply on lit rural 
roads. These days it is complicated by 20mph limits which also have no 
repeaters.

That is the theory, however in over 40 years of driving and even longer cycling 
I have never come across an unsigned 30mph limit. It is always signed as you 
enter the zone. Whilst it's useful for confirmation whilst driving, it is not 
really useful for mapping, you need to survey the start points so that it can 
be split at the appropriate points. 

Phil (trigpoint) 


On 30 April 2018 18:41:26 BST, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>Hi there
>
>On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
>the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":
>
>GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70
>mph)
>
>I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
>road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
>of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
>GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
>and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
>
>My question:
>How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
>areas applies?
>
>The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]
>
>Cheers
>Tobias
>
>[1]
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
>
>[2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
>
>___
>Talk-GB mailing list
>Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Tobias Zwick]

I apologize for the misunderstanding, this is about implicit speed
limits when there is *no sign* that ordains another speed limit, of course.

Cheers
Tobias

On 30/04/2018 20:50, Brian Prangle wrote:
> You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major roads
> in in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits are
> being reduced to 20mph in built up areas
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick  > wrote:
> 
> Hi there
> 
> On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
> the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":
> 
> GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 mph)
> 
> I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
> road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
> of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
> GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
> and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
> 
> My question:
> How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
> areas applies?
> 
> The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]
> 
> Cheers
> Tobias
> 
> [1]
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
> 
> 
> 
> [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> 
> 
> 


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Brian Prangle]

You can't make that assumption of an implicit 30mph limit. Major roads in
in built up areas can be 40 mph and increasingly speed limits are being
reduced to 20mph in built up areas

Regards

Brian

On 30 April 2018 at 18:41, Tobias Zwick  wrote:

> Hi there
>
> On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
> the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":
>
> GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 mph)
>
> I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
> road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
> of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
> GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
> and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
>
> My question:
> How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
> areas applies?
>
> The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]
>
> Cheers
> Tobias
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_
> code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
>
> [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Colin Smale]

The UK definition of a "built-up area" for traffic purposes is still
occasionally subject to discussions [1] 

In 99.9% of the cases the speed limit will be signed explicitly anyway. 

--colin

[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built-up_area_(Highway_Code)#Legal_definition


On 2018-04-30 19:41, Tobias Zwick wrote:

> Hi there
> 
> On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
> the following values [1 [1]] for "maxspeed:type":
> 
> GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 mph)
> 
> I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
> road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
> of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
> GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
> and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.
> 
> My question:
> How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
> areas applies?
> 
> The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2 [2]]
> 
> Cheers
> Tobias
> 
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
> 
> [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037
> 
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
 

Links:
--
[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
[2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Tobias Zwick]

Hi there

On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki lists
the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":

GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway (=70 mph)

I understand that the current legislation defines a road with
road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed limit
of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no GB:urban,
GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be defined
and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.

My question:
How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up
areas applies?

The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]

Cheers
Tobias

[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table

[2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb