Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Andrew Hain]

You might want to ask for Nominatim to return relations for queries of road 
names.

--
Andrew

From: Paul Berry 
Sent: 25 June 2018 15:59:36
To: David Woolley
Cc: Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation: 
http://osm.org/relation/2776562

Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or 
otherwise).

Regards,
Paul

On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:
On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the sections of 
A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the street names at 
points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose the Great North 
Road tag - just to demote it.


I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted, for 
which you will need an on the ground survey.

I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North Road" for 
the entirety, should be a [route] relation.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Andrew Hain]

You could also check the way histories to see if the local road names have been 
mapped in the past.

--
Andrew

From: Adam Snape 
Sent: 25 June 2018 17:11:04
To: Stuart Reynolds
Cc: Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

And, to actually deal with your question, I'd do a ground survey to see where 
the name changes. Failing that, the OS Open Map Local roads vector layer will 
show where the OS thinks the road name changes.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 17:01 Adam Snape, 
mailto:adam.c.sn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Stuart,

Sorry, to clarify I meant the Great North Road relation.

It is entirely right that the verifiable current names are mapped.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 16:41 Stuart Reynolds, 
mailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk>> 
wrote:
What do you mean by the “this” that is to be mapped? Do you mean “Great North 
Road” or High Road / London Road, etc. The latter are not historic - they are 
current (as you can verify on e.g. Postcode Finder looking for 11 High Road, 
Beeston, Sandy)

Regards,
Stuart


Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia




On 25 Jun 2018, at 16:38, Adam Snape 
mailto:adam.c.sn...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi,

If this is to be mapped  shouldn't it be as a historic feature rather than a 
(current) road route?

By the way I tend to use loc_name for a colloquial name regardless of whether 
it is just used by local people.

Kind regards,

Adam



On 25 June 2018 at 15:59, Paul Berry 
mailto:pmberry2...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation: 
http://osm.org/relation/2776562

Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or 
otherwise).

Regards,
Paul

On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:
On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the sections of 
A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the street names at 
points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose the Great North 
Road tag - just to demote it.


I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted, for 
which you will need an on the ground survey.

I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North Road" for 
the entirety, should be a [route] relation.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Adam Snape]

And, to actually deal with your question, I'd do a ground survey to see
where the name changes. Failing that, the OS Open Map Local roads vector
layer will show where the OS thinks the road name changes.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 17:01 Adam Snape,  wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
>
> Sorry, to clarify I meant the Great North Road relation.
>
> It is entirely right that the verifiable current names are mapped.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 16:41 Stuart Reynolds, <
> stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> What do you mean by the “this” that is to be mapped? Do you mean “Great
>> North Road” or High Road / London Road, etc. The latter are not historic -
>> they are current (as you can verify on e.g. Postcode Finder looking for 11
>> High Road, Beeston, Sandy)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stuart
>>
>> 
>> Stuart Reynolds
>> for traveline south east & anglia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 Jun 2018, at 16:38, Adam Snape  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If this is to be mapped  shouldn't it be as a historic feature rather
>> than a (current) road route?
>>
>> By the way I tend to use loc_name for a colloquial name regardless of
>> whether it is just used by local people.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 June 2018 at 15:59, Paul Berry  wrote:
>>
>>> Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation:
>>> http://osm.org/relation/2776562
>>>
>>> Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or
>>> otherwise).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> *Paul*
>>>
>>> On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:

> So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the
> sections of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the
> street names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to 
> lose
> the Great North Road tag - just to demote it.
>
>
 I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted,
 for which you will need an on the ground survey.

 I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North
 Road" for the entirety, should be a [route] relation.



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 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Adam Snape]

Hi Stuart,

Sorry, to clarify I meant the Great North Road relation.

It is entirely right that the verifiable current names are mapped.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 16:41 Stuart Reynolds, <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> What do you mean by the “this” that is to be mapped? Do you mean “Great
> North Road” or High Road / London Road, etc. The latter are not historic -
> they are current (as you can verify on e.g. Postcode Finder looking for 11
> High Road, Beeston, Sandy)
>
> Regards,
> Stuart
>
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
>
> On 25 Jun 2018, at 16:38, Adam Snape  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> If this is to be mapped  shouldn't it be as a historic feature rather than
> a (current) road route?
>
> By the way I tend to use loc_name for a colloquial name regardless of
> whether it is just used by local people.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On 25 June 2018 at 15:59, Paul Berry  wrote:
>
>> Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation:
>> http://osm.org/relation/2776562
>>
>> Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or
>> otherwise).
>>
>> Regards,
>> *Paul*
>>
>> On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
>>>
 So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the
 sections of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the
 street names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose
 the Great North Road tag - just to demote it.


>>> I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted,
>>> for which you will need an on the ground survey.
>>>
>>> I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North
>>> Road" for the entirety, should be a [route] relation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Stuart Reynolds]

What do you mean by the “this” that is to be mapped? Do you mean “Great North 
Road” or High Road / London Road, etc. The latter are not historic - they are 
current (as you can verify on e.g. Postcode Finder looking for 11 High Road, 
Beeston, Sandy)

Regards,
Stuart


Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia




On 25 Jun 2018, at 16:38, Adam Snape 
mailto:adam.c.sn...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi,

If this is to be mapped  shouldn't it be as a historic feature rather than a 
(current) road route?

By the way I tend to use loc_name for a colloquial name regardless of whether 
it is just used by local people.

Kind regards,

Adam



On 25 June 2018 at 15:59, Paul Berry 
mailto:pmberry2...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation: 
http://osm.org/relation/2776562

Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or 
otherwise).

Regards,
Paul

On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:
On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the sections of 
A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the street names at 
points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose the Great North 
Road tag - just to demote it.


I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted, for 
which you will need an on the ground survey.

I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North Road" for 
the entirety, should be a [route] relation.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Adam Snape]

Hi,

If this is to be mapped  shouldn't it be as a historic feature rather than
a (current) road route?

By the way I tend to use loc_name for a colloquial name regardless of
whether it is just used by local people.

Kind regards,

Adam



On 25 June 2018 at 15:59, Paul Berry  wrote:

> Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation:
> http://osm.org/relation/2776562
>
> Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or
> otherwise).
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley 
> wrote:
>
>> On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>> So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the
>>> sections of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the
>>> street names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose
>>> the Great North Road tag - just to demote it.
>>>
>>>
>> I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted,
>> for which you will need an on the ground survey.
>>
>> I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North
>> Road" for the entirety, should be a [route] relation.
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Paul Berry]

Someone's had a brave go at defining that very relation:
http://osm.org/relation/2776562

Feel free to extend it, bearing in mind the Great North Road != A1 (M or
otherwise).

Regards,
*Paul*

On 25 June 2018 at 14:44, David Woolley  wrote:

> On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
>
>> So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the
>> sections of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the
>> street names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose
>> the Great North Road tag - just to demote it.
>>
>>
> I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted, for
> which you will need an on the ground survey.
>
> I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North Road"
> for the entirety, should be a [route] relation.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[David Woolley]

On 25/06/18 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the 
sections of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the 
street names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to 
lose the Great North Road tag - just to demote it.




I would say that the name should be that which is locally sign posted, 
for which you will need an on the ground survey.


I think I would agree with the discussion that suggests "Great North 
Road" for the entirety, should be a [route] relation.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[SK53]

Discussed as long ago as 2011 on Sabre:
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28139#p571505.

This discussion on Sabre highlights the fact that the Great North Road and
current A1, A1(M) route may not always be identical. I know I might refer
to older dual carriageway sections of the A1 as the GNR, but not newer
motorway sections. The bypasses around Stamford, Grantham & Newark I think
I would call A1.

The A52 between Nottingham & Derby was named "Brian Clough Way" and has
name signs in several places. Parts which have no other name receive the
Brian Clough Way name otherwise it goes in alt_name. Personally I think a
relation might be better, but this is, nonetheless a precedent.

Jerry


On 25 June 2018 at 14:13, Stuart Reynolds 
wrote:

> So here’s a question.
>
> As the A1 passes Sandy in Central Bedfordshire, and further south, the
> road has local road names. For example, it is London Road past Sandy, and
> High Road as it passes Beeston to the south of Sandy. These names are
> verifiable from other sources, and while I note that these are DEFRA’s
> OS-derived MAGIC map, and Google, I am only using these to confirm data
> that I have been given in other contexts. OSM here, though, has “Great
> North Road”. This is *_not_* the name of the road. It is more of a
> colloquial name for the entire A1 than anything official … although it is
> still recognised as a name.
>
> So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the sections
> of A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the street
> names at points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose the
> Great North Road tag - just to demote it.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks
> Stuart
>
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Stuart Reynolds]

Thanks, but that seems the wrong way round. When I said that they were local 
names, what I meant is that local bits of the A1 have different official names. 
 So name=* . It isn’t a “local” usage in the same way that e.g. Squinty Bridge 
from the Wiki is. And “Great North Road” isn’t a local name, is it, since it 
applies from London to Scotland?

Stuart




On 25 Jun 2018, at 14:27, Dave F 
mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#loc_name

DaveF

On 25/06/2018 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
local road names


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Re: [Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Dave F]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#loc_name

DaveF

On 25/06/2018 14:13, Stuart Reynolds wrote:

local road names



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[Talk-GB] Local names of bits of trunk roads

[Stuart Reynolds]

So here’s a question.

As the A1 passes Sandy in Central Bedfordshire, and further south, the road has 
local road names. For example, it is London Road past Sandy, and High Road as 
it passes Beeston to the south of Sandy. These names are verifiable from other 
sources, and while I note that these are DEFRA’s OS-derived MAGIC map, and 
Google, I am only using these to confirm data that I have been given in other 
contexts. OSM here, though, has “Great North Road”. This is _not_ the name of 
the road. It is more of a colloquial name for the entire A1 than anything 
official … although it is still recognised as a name.

So how should I tag this? I want to have the correct name for the sections of 
A1, yet I don’t know how far these extend (my data lists the street names at 
points, not over lengths), and equally I don’t want to lose the Great North 
Road tag - just to demote it.

Thoughts?

Thanks
Stuart


Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia




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