Re: [Talk-GB] Warwickshire footpaths - prow ref

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 7 July 2018 at 13:17, Rob Nickerson  wrote:
> I'm not sure if I will add the prow_ref as I'm not so sure it has much value
> given that they are not signed on the ground. I also don't know what code to
> add. Nick has it showing the Parish name/code, then a space, then the ref. I
> think this is just a copy from Barry's rowmaps datasets. In the Warwickshire
> data Barry has, it is a parish code (e.g. 214). This gives values such as
> "214 SS92/1".
>
> A quick check of the prow map that Warwickshire CC put online (scanned map),
> they only show the "SS92" part.
>
> In my WCC data (which I think is an earlier version that they released prior
> to Robert W forcing them to make it OGL), the parishes are listed by names.
> As an example, for one way I have these key=value pairs:
>
> ID_NO=SS92
> Type=BR
> DIST_BOR=Stratford-upon-Avon District
> Parish=Long Compton

Having looked at the Warwickshire IDs when I was adding them to my
tool, the initial letters correspond to former government districts,
and the paths are then numbered uniquely within each one. Parishes do
not feature in the numbering scheme, so I would regard the parish
information in the GIS data as being an attribute of the path (or a
section of the path) rather then being part of its ID. Accordingly I
would recommend that you use the prow_ref=SS92 format, without any
redundant parish information. (The prefix letters denoting the area --
SS corresponds to the former Shipstone-on-Stour Rural District for
example -- take the place of the parish name or code used in other
counties.)

A relatively small number of Rights of Way have letter suffixes (this
applies across other counties too). These correspond to separate
Rights of Way, and typically come about when an original Right of Way
is modified or diverted, and it's more convenient to retain an
association with the original number than to use a completely new one.
So please include an suffix letters in the prow_ref tag.

You'll also sometimes see /1, /2 etc suffixes added in GIS data.
Typically these are not part of the official PRoW numbering, but are
added by the GIS software to allow each PRoW to be split into
segements where-ever another PRoW connects to it. Since these aren't
part of the official numbering, I would not add them to the prow_ref
tag.

Counties seem to vary in whether they allow the same numbered route to
have multiple statuses. Some do not, in which case if part of a path
got upgraded or downgraded, then they'd need to assign a different
number (or suffix) to the different parts. Other Counties appear to.
But then I think it's ok in OSM to just have the same prow_ref=* value
with different designation=* values on different sections. (My tool
doesn't quite handle the latter situation correctly. The maps are
correct, but the table only lists one type for each number. I need to
alter the primary key in a database able to fix this -- which will
need some thought.)

As far as Warwickshire is concerned, my tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/warks/ looks for prow_ref
tags of the form '[area id][num][suffix]' using the regular expression
/^()([A-Z][A-Z]?)()([1-9][0-9]*)([A-Za-z]?)$/, so values like "SS92"
or "SS112b". Even if the reference number is not signed on the ground,
I think it's definitely worthwhile adding, as it then makes it much
easier for tools to check the completeness of Rights of Way mapping
and highlight any errors or discrepancies. See e.g.
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/warks/stratford-on-avon/stratford-upon-avon-municipal-borough/

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Nick Whitelegg]

401 would mean you're not logged in.. when you login it stores your OAuth token 
in a session, which expires after a certain time (15 minutes I think, need to 
check the configuration).


I'll modify the code when I have a moment so that if it gives a 401 it comes up 
with a more friendly message to tell the user they need to log back in.


I have changed the code slightly to reduce the risk of caching old versions of 
the JavsScript.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
Sent: 07 July 2018 18:20:15
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

Still having issues.

I was getting the correct message box but now I just get "OpenStreetMap 
returned an error: code 401".

BTW: I am adding designation but no prow_ref. For now I will continue with JOSM.

Rob


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 17:38, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Rob,


To add to Martin's comment, try using Ctrl+F5 on MapThePaths itself as you 
might be using a cached old version of the scripts.


When you add a designation and/or prow_ref, an alert box reading 'Way NNN 
successfully updated in OSM' should appear. Does this appear?


The way you mentioned doesn't seem to have any edits even after refreshing.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 07 July 2018 12:37:26
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

In that case it is not working for me. Username is RobJN (with capitalisation). 
Tried to edit a few ways including this one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/454674177

Anyone else having success? problems?

Thanks,
Rob


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 11:10, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Rob,


Should be immediate: for example I've added a number of prow_ref tags in just 
the last few minutes. See:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60485630


One update today BTW - formerly each edit had a separate changeset, which 
wasn't ideal. Now multiple edits in one session are grouped into a single 
changeset.


Let me know if you're still having problems; let me know what edits you're 
trying to do and I'll try and reproduce them.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 06 July 2018 23:42:41
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

Hi Nick,

How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to be 
live but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks,
Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths QP

[Rob Nickerson]

Robert's tool does number of kilometres (km) but just for the counties
where we have OGL data to compare against.
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/

It would be good to have km for all counties. I'm sure even with non-OGL
data we can show the target km versus the OSMF KM mapped.

Is this possible Robert?

Thanks,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Rob Nickerson]

Still having issues.

I was getting the correct message box but now I just get "OpenStreetMap
returned an error: code 401".

BTW: I am adding designation but no prow_ref. For now I will continue with
JOSM.

*Rob*


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 17:38, Nick Whitelegg 
wrote:

>
> Hello Rob,
>
>
> To add to Martin's comment, try using Ctrl+F5 on MapThePaths itself as you
> might be using a cached old version of the scripts.
>
>
> When you add a designation and/or prow_ref, an alert box reading 'Way NNN
> successfully updated in OSM' should appear. Does this appear?
>
>
> The way you mentioned doesn't seem to have any edits even after refreshing.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
> --
> *From:* Rob Nickerson 
> *Sent:* 07 July 2018 12:37:26
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg
> *Cc:* Talk-GB
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and
> prow_ref
>
> In that case it is not working for me. Username is RobJN (with
> capitalisation). Tried to edit a few ways including this one:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/454674177
>
> Anyone else having success? problems?
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
>
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 11:10, Nick Whitelegg 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Rob,
>
>
> Should be immediate: for example I've added a number of prow_ref tags in
> just the last few minutes. See:
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60485630
>
>
> One update today BTW - formerly each edit had a separate changeset, which
> wasn't ideal. Now multiple edits in one session are grouped into a single
> changeset.
>
>
> Let me know if you're still having problems; let me know what edits you're
> trying to do and I'll try and reproduce them.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Rob Nickerson 
> *Sent:* 06 July 2018 23:42:41
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and
> prow_ref
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to
> be live but this doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Rob,


To add to Martin's comment, try using Ctrl+F5 on MapThePaths itself as you 
might be using a cached old version of the scripts.


When you add a designation and/or prow_ref, an alert box reading 'Way NNN 
successfully updated in OSM' should appear. Does this appear?


The way you mentioned doesn't seem to have any edits even after refreshing.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
Sent: 07 July 2018 12:37:26
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

In that case it is not working for me. Username is RobJN (with capitalisation). 
Tried to edit a few ways including this one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/454674177

Anyone else having success? problems?

Thanks,
Rob


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 11:10, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Rob,


Should be immediate: for example I've added a number of prow_ref tags in just 
the last few minutes. See:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60485630


One update today BTW - formerly each edit had a separate changeset, which 
wasn't ideal. Now multiple edits in one session are grouped into a single 
changeset.


Let me know if you're still having problems; let me know what edits you're 
trying to do and I'll try and reproduce them.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 06 July 2018 23:42:41
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

Hi Nick,

How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to be 
live but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks,
Rob
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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #415 2018-06-26-2018-07-02

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 415,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/10481/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-GB] Warwickshire footpaths - prow ref

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Brian,

cc: talk-gb where there is an ongoing discussion about prow ref. I want to
use this post to highlight that even the local authorities are not
internally consistent.

Good to see you on Thursday. As discussed I will start with Stratford upon
avon district (admin level 8) rights of way:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/176449

I'm not sure if I will add the prow_ref as I'm not so sure it has much
value given that they are not signed on the ground. I also don't know what
code to add. Nick has it showing the Parish name/code, then a space, then
the ref. I think this is just a copy from Barry's rowmaps datasets. In the
Warwickshire data Barry has, it is a parish code (e.g. 214). This gives
values such as "214 SS92/1".

A quick check of the prow map that Warwickshire CC put online (scanned
map), they only show the "SS92" part.

In my WCC data (which I think is an earlier version that they released
prior to Robert W forcing them to make it OGL), the parishes are listed by
names. As an example, for one way I have these key=value pairs:

   - ID_NO=SS92
   - Type=BR
   - DIST_BOR=Stratford-upon-Avon District
   - Parish=Long Compton

There is also a way with the exact same details, except Parish=Little
Compton. There are also 3 cases (AE103, AE56 and AL24) where the same ID_NO
is both a bridleway and a footpath!

No ID_NOs have any "/1" or similar (although we do have letters, such as
"SS92a"). I wonder if this was introduced automatically by computer
software which needed the ID_NO column to be a unique key. In which case
the addition of "/1", "/2" etc is unknown/unofficial to the council.

Given all this, and the fact that the council don't seem to be very
consistent with their own data, I propose either:

   - Adding just the ID_NO (e.g. SS92)
   - Or following the wiki advise *(parish name, two-letter type
   abbreviation, path number without leading zeros)* (e.g. Long Compton BR
   SS92).

What do you plan to add?

Thanks,
*Rob*
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Warwickshire footpaths - prow ref

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Brian,

cc: talk-gb where there is an ongoing discussion about prow ref. I want to
use this post to highlight that even the local authorities are not
internally consistent.

Good to see you on Thursday. As discussed I will start with Stratford upon
avon district (admin level 8) rights of way:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/176449

I'm not sure if I will add the prow_ref as I'm not so sure it has much
value given that they are not signed on the ground. I also don't know what
code to add. Nick has it showing the Parish name/code, then a space, then
the ref. I think this is just a copy from Barry's rowmaps datasets. In the
Warwickshire data Barry has, it is a parish code (e.g. 214). This gives
values such as "214 SS92/1".

A quick check of the prow map that Warwickshire CC put online (scanned
map), they only show the "SS92" part.

In my WCC data (which I think is an earlier version that they released
prior to Robert W forcing them to make it OGL), the parishes are listed by
names. As an example, for one way I have these key=value pairs:

   - ID_NO=SS92
   - Type=BR
   - DIST_BOR=Stratford-upon-Avon District
   - Parish=Long Compton

There is also a way with the exact same details, except Parish=Little
Compton. There are also 3 cases (AE103, AE56 and AL24) where the same ID_NO
is both a bridleway and a footpath!

No ID_NOs have any "/1" or similar (although we do have letters, such as
"SS92a"). I wonder if this was introduced automatically by computer
software which needed the ID_NO column to be a unique key. In which case
the addition of "/1", "/2" etc is unknown/unofficial to the council.

Given all this, and the fact that the council don't seem to be very
consistent with their own data, I propose either:

   - Adding just the ID_NO (e.g. SS92)
   - Or following the wiki advise *(parish name, two-letter type
   abbreviation, path number without leading zeros)* (e.g. Long Compton BR
   SS92).

What do you plan to add?

Thanks,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Martin Wynne]

How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to
be live but this doesn't seem to be the case.


Hi Rob,

Press CTRL+F5 to refresh the page from the server to see the edits. It 
sometimes takes a few seconds to update.


The map rendering takes longer at some zoom levels.

regards,

Martin.


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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Rob Nickerson]

In that case it is not working for me. Username is RobJN (with
capitalisation). Tried to edit a few ways including this one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/454674177

Anyone else having success? problems?

Thanks,
*Rob*


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 11:10, Nick Whitelegg 
wrote:

>
> Hello Rob,
>
>
> Should be immediate: for example I've added a number of prow_ref tags in
> just the last few minutes. See:
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60485630
>
>
> One update today BTW - formerly each edit had a separate changeset, which
> wasn't ideal. Now multiple edits in one session are grouped into a single
> changeset.
>
>
> Let me know if you're still having problems; let me know what edits you're
> trying to do and I'll try and reproduce them.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Rob Nickerson 
> *Sent:* 06 July 2018 23:42:41
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and
> prow_ref
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to
> be live but this doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Rob,


Should be immediate: for example I've added a number of prow_ref tags in just 
the last few minutes. See:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60485630


One update today BTW - formerly each edit had a separate changeset, which 
wasn't ideal. Now multiple edits in one session are grouped into a single 
changeset.


Let me know if you're still having problems; let me know what edits you're 
trying to do and I'll try and reproduce them.


Nick



From: Rob Nickerson 
Sent: 06 July 2018 23:42:41
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

Hi Nick,

How long does it take for the edits to go through to OSM? I expected it to be 
live but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks,
Rob
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