Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)
Hi Nick, I like your idea. Breaking the tasks down in to chunks makes sense. One group of beginners contribute data (a gps trace all coordinated via a simple app) whilst another group make the edits in OSM. P.S. On mapthepaths.org.uk (the website) can you make it such that when I click a local authority line it highlights the full line. I would like to see the start and end point of the line so that I can properly add the reference to OSM. Currently I have to click along the path several times to see where the reference changes. Thank you, *Rob* ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)
Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph. I meant to say: "They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with trksegs tagged with ROW designation and surface* (which was done by the first version of the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users *are alerted*. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and, *using the tags in the trksegs of the GPX* then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending)." Nick From: Nick Whitelegg Sent: 13 May 2020 18:08 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!) Hi, Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been noticing that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away from the 'honeypot' areas with little or now ROW mapping at all meaning there's still quite a big job to be done. As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to MapThePaths. In the first version of this (around two years ago) I experimented with auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I was dissatisfied with the results, the ways generated were really rather nasty and I ended up having to prettify them significantly in JOSM afterwards, rendering the auto-creation facility a little pointless. Consequently later versions of the app have focused on merely presenting the council and OSM data overlaid (like the website), with only limited editing facilities, to change the designation of a path. However (and I may have mentioned this before, it's been a while) I am wondering about a 'two-user' approach in which a new user merely does the GPX survey, using an easy to use UI (a refined version of the MapThePaths app with the UI re-designed by someone more versed in UX than myself). They select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated (which was done by the first version of the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending). Any thoughts? Thanks, Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)
Hi, Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been noticing that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away from the 'honeypot' areas with little or now ROW mapping at all meaning there's still quite a big job to be done. As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to MapThePaths. In the first version of this (around two years ago) I experimented with auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I was dissatisfied with the results, the ways generated were really rather nasty and I ended up having to prettify them significantly in JOSM afterwards, rendering the auto-creation facility a little pointless. Consequently later versions of the app have focused on merely presenting the council and OSM data overlaid (like the website), with only limited editing facilities, to change the designation of a path. However (and I may have mentioned this before, it's been a while) I am wondering about a 'two-user' approach in which a new user merely does the GPX survey, using an easy to use UI (a refined version of the MapThePaths app with the UI re-designed by someone more versed in UX than myself). They select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated (which was done by the first version of the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending). Any thoughts? Thanks, Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Lancashire prow_ref format (Was: Public Rights of Way - legal vs reality)
Hi, I'm so glad the information is being used and progress is being made. However, I do have to agree with Rob about the Council's online map. Re:OS copyright they are really highly protective about what they perceive to be derived data. I think it would be difficult to add rights of way whilst consulting the Council's OS-based map, yet completely avoid using any geographic information in it at any point to clarify, adjust or update the routes or surrounding features. But, in any case, we definitely do not have the Council's permission to use the data in the online map, which does differ slightly from the dataset they supplied in response to my foi/ rpsi request in 2018. It may seem trivial but we need explicit permission when using data for OSM, so I really do suggest we avoid this source. Please keep up the good work though, Adam ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
By all means create a UK-specific page to document discussions, show differences to the rest of the world, and/or state how we do things round these parts. The naming convention is "[Primary subject] in the United Kingdom", as in "Showgrounds in the United Kingdom". On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:30 PM Paul Berry wrote: > Not sure about the tagging/proposal politics but since there are a small > number of showgrounds, is there anything to stop a UK-specific page being > set up on the Wiki for visibility? Then if anyone wants to harmonise the > tags they can use that as a guide to do so. > > There's nothing to say we can't tag in any way we want—and again for this > small collection of entities which are clearly all the same fundamental > object—it's only if we want people to be consistent, or to adopt our tags, > that we would need to go through the process of proposed tag adoption. > > Regards, > *Paul* > > On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 10:10, nathan case wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Just to drag this back up - I encountered an unmapped showground >> (Chipping, Lancashire) whilst adding PROWs and don't know the best way to >> tag. It appears to hold a several large shows each year (well presumably >> not this year!) but doesn't appear to be a recreational site. >> >> I found this abandoned proposal for amenity=show_grounds: >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/show_grounds It's >> a shame it never got traction as it might enable us to come to some >> consensus on these sites. Can an abandoned proposal be re-opened or does it >> have to be re-proposed? >> >> Cheers. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Andy Townsend >> Sent: 25 February 2020 00:23 >> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org >> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds >> >> Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered >> at map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too. >> These are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and >> car parks", sorted by one of the main tags. >> >> I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or >> "tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a >> showground". "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that tag >> was for. "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I suspect >> isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it was often >> correct. In most or all cases it probably needs a local to make the call, >> though... >> >> place: >> >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440 >> name Mannsfield Showground >> place locality >> source OS OpenData StreetView >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963 >> name Great Harwood Showground >> place neighbourhood >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541 >> addr:postcode BS37 8QZ >> addr:street Westerleigh Road >> name The Windmill Fisheries Showground place locality >> >> >> events_venue only: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782 >> alt_name Royal Cornwall Event Centre amenity events_venue name >> Royal Cornwall Showground >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833 >> amenity events_venue >> name Hertfordshire County Showground operator Hertfordshire >> Country Council >> >> >> tourism=attraction only: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694 >> name Devon County Showground >> tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877 >> name Kent Showground >> source Bing >> tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963 >> barrier fence >> name Norfolk Showground >> tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558 >> name Great Yorkshire Showground >> tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888 >> barrier fence >> name Royal Bath and West of England Showground tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854 >> name Hennock Showground >> tourism attraction >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540 >> addr:city Newark >> addr:postcode NG24 2NY >> addr:street Lincoln Road >> alt_name Newark Show Ground >> name Newark Showground >> operator Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society phone +44 >> 1636 705796 tourism attraction website >> http://www.newarkshowground.com/ wikidata Q15262122 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728 >> name Lincolnshire Showground >> tourism attraction >> >> >> recreation_ground only: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353 >> alt_name Briscwm Fields >> description Normally farmland, Used to hold events such as the >> Cardigan County Agricultural Show. >> landuse recreation_ground >> name Cardigan County Showground >> note Located from information on Coflein. >> phone +44 1545 570501 >> recreation_ground
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
Not sure about the tagging/proposal politics but since there are a small number of showgrounds, is there anything to stop a UK-specific page being set up on the Wiki for visibility? Then if anyone wants to harmonise the tags they can use that as a guide to do so. There's nothing to say we can't tag in any way we want—and again for this small collection of entities which are clearly all the same fundamental object—it's only if we want people to be consistent, or to adopt our tags, that we would need to go through the process of proposed tag adoption. Regards, *Paul* On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 10:10, nathan case wrote: > Hi all, > > Just to drag this back up - I encountered an unmapped showground > (Chipping, Lancashire) whilst adding PROWs and don't know the best way to > tag. It appears to hold a several large shows each year (well presumably > not this year!) but doesn't appear to be a recreational site. > > I found this abandoned proposal for amenity=show_grounds: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/show_grounds It's a > shame it never got traction as it might enable us to come to some consensus > on these sites. Can an abandoned proposal be re-opened or does it have to > be re-proposed? > > Cheers. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Townsend > Sent: 25 February 2020 00:23 > To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds > > Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered at > map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too. These > are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and car > parks", sorted by one of the main tags. > > I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or > "tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a > showground". "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that tag > was for. "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I suspect > isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it was often > correct. In most or all cases it probably needs a local to make the call, > though... > > place: > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440 > name Mannsfield Showground > place locality > source OS OpenData StreetView > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963 > name Great Harwood Showground > place neighbourhood > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541 > addr:postcode BS37 8QZ > addr:street Westerleigh Road > name The Windmill Fisheries Showground place locality > > > events_venue only: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782 > alt_name Royal Cornwall Event Centre amenity events_venue name > Royal Cornwall Showground > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833 > amenity events_venue > name Hertfordshire County Showground operator Hertfordshire > Country Council > > > tourism=attraction only: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694 > name Devon County Showground > tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877 > name Kent Showground > source Bing > tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963 > barrier fence > name Norfolk Showground > tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558 > name Great Yorkshire Showground > tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888 > barrier fence > name Royal Bath and West of England Showground tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854 > name Hennock Showground > tourism attraction > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540 > addr:city Newark > addr:postcode NG24 2NY > addr:street Lincoln Road > alt_name Newark Show Ground > name Newark Showground > operator Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society phone +44 > 1636 705796 tourism attraction website > http://www.newarkshowground.com/ wikidata Q15262122 > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728 > name Lincolnshire Showground > tourism attraction > > > recreation_ground only: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353 > alt_name Briscwm Fields > description Normally farmland, Used to hold events such as the > Cardigan County Agricultural Show. > landuse recreation_ground > name Cardigan County Showground > note Located from information on Coflein. > phone +44 1545 570501 > recreation_ground showground > website https://cardigancountyshow.org.uk/ > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34993687 > landuse recreation_ground > name Mirfield Showground > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/89151502 > addr:city Peterborough > addr:housename Peterborough Arena > addr:postcode PE2 6XE > addr:street East of England Showground landuse recreation_ground > name East of England Showground phone +44 1733 363500 website >
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
Hi all, Just to drag this back up - I encountered an unmapped showground (Chipping, Lancashire) whilst adding PROWs and don't know the best way to tag. It appears to hold a several large shows each year (well presumably not this year!) but doesn't appear to be a recreational site. I found this abandoned proposal for amenity=show_grounds: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/show_grounds It's a shame it never got traction as it might enable us to come to some consensus on these sites. Can an abandoned proposal be re-opened or does it have to be re-proposed? Cheers. -Original Message- From: Andy Townsend Sent: 25 February 2020 00:23 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered at map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too. These are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and car parks", sorted by one of the main tags. I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or "tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a showground". "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that tag was for. "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I suspect isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it was often correct. In most or all cases it probably needs a local to make the call, though... place: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440 name Mannsfield Showground place locality source OS OpenData StreetView https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963 name Great Harwood Showground place neighbourhood https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541 addr:postcode BS37 8QZ addr:street Westerleigh Road name The Windmill Fisheries Showground place locality events_venue only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782 alt_name Royal Cornwall Event Centre amenity events_venue name Royal Cornwall Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833 amenity events_venue name Hertfordshire County Showground operator Hertfordshire Country Council tourism=attraction only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694 name Devon County Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877 name Kent Showground source Bing tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963 barrier fence name Norfolk Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558 name Great Yorkshire Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888 barrier fence name Royal Bath and West of England Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854 name Hennock Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540 addr:city Newark addr:postcode NG24 2NY addr:street Lincoln Road alt_name Newark Show Ground name Newark Showground operator Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society phone +44 1636 705796 tourism attraction website http://www.newarkshowground.com/ wikidata Q15262122 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728 name Lincolnshire Showground tourism attraction recreation_ground only: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353 alt_name Briscwm Fields description Normally farmland, Used to hold events such as the Cardigan County Agricultural Show. landuse recreation_ground name Cardigan County Showground note Located from information on Coflein. phone +44 1545 570501 recreation_ground showground website https://cardigancountyshow.org.uk/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34993687 landuse recreation_ground name Mirfield Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/89151502 addr:city Peterborough addr:housename Peterborough Arena addr:postcode PE2 6XE addr:street East of England Showground landuse recreation_ground name East of England Showground phone +44 1733 363500 website http://www.peterborougharena.com wheelchair yes https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/415636494 leisure recreation_ground name Christow Playing Fields and Showground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4587165 leisure recreation_ground name Essex Showground source approximate https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/30813084 leisure recreation_ground name North Somerset Showground tourism attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/547075306 addr:postcode LE15 7TW addr:street Burley Park Way landuse recreation_ground name Rutland Showground note The new county showground site. source EsriWorldImagery website https://www.rutlandshowground.com/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/588128321 leisure recreation_ground name Strithians Showground
