Re: [Talk-GB] Large swaths of "heath" on Dartmoor

[Kevin Peat]

On 25 September 2017 17:13:01 BST, ael  wrote:
>On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 01:36:22PM +0100, SK53 wrote:
>> Moor (or possibly fell) covers a decent amount of Corine data
>imported
>> across Europe as natural=heath. In effect natural=heath on OSM no
>longer
>> means heath. It may mean any of the following:
>> 
>>- Upland vegetation in its broadest sense: unimproved upland
>grassland,
>>drier blanket bogs (covered by heather), Racometrium heath,
>Bilberry
>>dominated heath, Shrubby vegetation dominated by brooms (at least
>in France
>>& Spain), and no doubt a few others I've missed.
>>- Moorland in Britain, which is probably a slightly smaller subset
>of
>>the above
>>- Lowland heathland: places like the Surrey Heaths, Suffolk
>Sandlings,
>>Norfolk Brecks etc.
>>- Other less obvious lowland areas known as heaths: particularly
>with
>>large swathes of bracken and patches of birch.
>> 
>> When this thread first started I thought we could work to remove
>these
>> multiple meanings, but having seen what places with natural=heath
>from
>> Corine imported-data in the Cevennes,  suspect that this is an
>unrealistic
>> objective.
>
>Well, surely this make the tag so general as to be pretty useless. The
>original meaning was pretty specific and useful. "Moor" or something
>equivalant is well understood (in the UK, at least) and is useful as
>a broad description where detailed mapping is absent.
>
>Anyway, I take it that no one is objecting to my changes and wanting to
>revert them?
>
>ael
>
>
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This was discussed in a thread here a number of years ago. There is a lot of 
upland heath on the moor:

http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/wildlife-and-heritage/habitats2/moorland/upland-heathland

I think it would be better if it was kept as heath with a sub type. Just 
changing it to moor doesn't add anything useful.

Kevin


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Re: [Talk-GB] Use of leisure=sports_centre at Silverstone etc

[Kevin Peat]

I believe that Silverstone is also an active airfield.


Only for helicopters on race weekends and for sightseeing trips, the runway was 
repurposed a few years ago. To complicate things further there is a new 
university building on the site so you could add campus to the list of possible 
tags.

Kevin


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Re: [Talk-GB] Hants CC - Open Government Licence use of data

[Kevin Peat]

Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com wrote:

Case in point (green dots on OS Explorer, sort of track on NPE, nothing
in OS Streetview, perfectly good track for 4x4s (maybe even cars -
memory is fuzzy now)  mountain bikes).
Something I've mapped  (Potlatch2 claims AndyS has modified it - but
then I've never quite understood Potlatch2's change list compared to
one from the OSM website).
I don't think it was marked as a Byway hence I did not mark it as such
but feels like one (presumably the reasons for the additions Sailor
Steve has made).

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/41984943/history

'Hampshire's maintained highways list'
Are you referring to
http://www3.hants.gov.uk/roads/highway-factsheets/maintained-roads.htm
? Or something else?

However it's hard to search for unamed/unknown ways, such as the above.
...


I have mapped many of these green lanes in Devon and tagged them as:

   highway=track
   designation=unclassified_highway

They were discussed in the past on the list. You sometimes see them signed as 
unmetalled roads and they appear to have the same legal access rights as 
normal public roads.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Usage of lanes / turn restrictions versus multiple ways when road is not divided

[Kevin Peat]

On 9 May 2013 13:06, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:


 What do people think of this:

 http://osm.org/go/0EQSJEoZT-- (aerial: http://binged.it/10kuDNm )

 and this:

 http://osm.org/go/eu6_VCkLp-- (aerial: http://binged.it/16js1Ye )


These look good to me. I have mapped a number of junctions in a similar way.

As for traffic islands, I wouldn't create a divided highway for a 2 metre
long refuge but I probably would for a 50 metre section. If it means
anything, the other mapping providers (OS, Google) seem to do that as well.

Is there any consensus tagging scheme for providing OSM based lane guidance
and if there is does anyone know of an app that implements it?

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Review of Skobbler

[Kevin Peat]

Interesting, although Privacy-conscious Apple fanbois seems like it might
be a very small market and why do the media often call the project
OpenStreetMaps, where does that come from?

Kevin



On 3 May 2013 10:19, david da...@avoncliff.com wrote:

 http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2013/05/02/open_source_**mapping_skobbler/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/02/open_source_mapping_skobbler/

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Re: [Talk-GB] Natural England Data

[Kevin Peat]

Dudley,

On 1 May 2013 19:42, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 Am I correct in assuming we cannot use this data.  It talks about OGL but
also mentions 3rd party and OS (again!!)

 http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/publications/data/


This dataset was discussed on the list before. I seem to remember most of
the data was okay to use in OSM. Search the list archive to confirm.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] the brilliant and constantly improving Wikipedia of maps

[Kevin Peat]

On 29 Apr 2013 22:01, Rovastar rovas...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Great however the OSM referenced has been shoehorned in there (not
 complaining though), as the cartographers mentioned finding the new 2000ft
 mountain just seemed to use Ordinance Surveynotably the wrong height
 appears on OSM and not updated. :(

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.81021lon=-2.60709zoom=16layers=M


What's with the feet, I thought 'ele' was supposed to be in metres?

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Re: [Talk-GB] Dartmoor needs fixing (heath area missing a chunk)

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Jason,

On 24 April 2013 11:55, Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com wrote:


 I think the problem is back


Is it not just a browser caching issue? Looks okay to me in Firefox and
Chromium and I took a look at the way in josm and couldn't see anything
wrong.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Dartmoor needs fixing (heath area missing a chunk)

[Kevin Peat]

Brad,

On 24 April 2013 16:17, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote:

 Strange, as I find it to be okay on the French map, and broken on
 streetmap.org.


I assume you mean openstreetmap.org ?

Most of the time stale tiles are due to them being cached by the browser.
In Firefox you can hold down the CTRL key while clicking reload to force a
reload from the server. In Chrome/Chromium CTRL SHIFT r does the same
thing.

If a higher zoom tile doesn't automatically re-render for some reason you
can force it by (in Firefox),

   Right clicking on the tile in the slippy map and selecting View Image
   Add /dirty to the url of the image and press return
   eg. http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/12/2006/1381.png/dirty

You should get the message Tile submitted for rendering

You can also add /status to a tile image to find out when it was last
rendered,
   eg. http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/12/2006/1381.png/status

If none of this makes a difference to your problem then let people know as
there may be something else that needs to be investigated.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] BBC News - Google Map Maker edit tools extended to cover the UK

[Kevin Peat]

On 11 April 2013 08:12, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 No mention of OSM in this piece:

 http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22099960


Google has been getting a free pass from the media but now they are making
hardware that may change, waiting for the Nexus sweatshop / employee
suicide stories to emerge.

It will be interesting to see if they get enough contributors to even sort
out the mess that gmaps poi's are in let alone to add buildings, etc.
Outside of a few urban centres I don't see it myself.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] NCN 28?

[Kevin Peat]

Richard,

On 9 April 2013 09:31, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:

 Hi all,

 Is anyone able to verify the existence or otherwise of NCN 28 from Exeter
 to Dartmoor, as shown on OSM right now?


Ashamed to say I am not at all familiar with NCN 28 despite the low zoom
map on Sustrans site showing it coming within a couple of hundred metres of
my house.

I assume the open section they are talking about on their website is the
new path and bridge around the back of Newton Abbot racecourse which I have
ridden a couple of times and does I think have some NCN signage which must
be 28. I will check this next time I am up there unless someone else has
confirmed it already.

The South Devon Link Road construction gives rise to new cycle paths from
Newton Abbot down to Torquay which this document:

   http://www.devon.gov.uk/ldfpaper-newtonabbot.pdf

mentions as being part of NCN 28. Those paths will be finished around the
end of next year. They have recently started on the groundworks so there is
nothing to see as yet.

Torbay Council are working on some cycle paths in Paignton right now which
might become part of this but I haven't seen any signage around as yet. I
think the work has been held up a bit due to the poor weather of late.

Kevin (user: devonshire)
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Re: [Talk-GB] NCN 28?

[Kevin Peat]

Replying to my own post,

On 9 April 2013 10:44, Kevin Peat k...@k3v.eu wrote:


 I assume the open section they are talking about on their website is the
 new path and bridge around the back of Newton Abbot racecourse which I have
 ridden a couple of times and does I think have some NCN signage which must
 be 28. I will check this next time I am up there unless someone else has
 confirmed it already.


Seems as if the new path is signed as route 2 per this timely twitter post,

   https://twitter.com/CycleDevon/status/321614115296657408/photo/1

Route 28 seems to run along the Templer Way cycle path but I don't recall
seeing any specific signage along there.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM on BBC TV

[Kevin Peat]

On 8 April 2013 12:13, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:

 ...I think it was this website:
 http://www.netweather.tv/indeI think it would be nice to have a wiki page
 OSM spotted in the wild or notable OSM use, 
 x.cgi?action=lightning;sess=http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=


 Nothing in the credits. Is it worth looking into this?


I also noticed this, probably because I have been using the
netweather.tvsite for quite a while. Free weather radar on an OSM
basemap is pretty
cool. The website attributes OSM which I think is all that could be
expected. I don't think TV would ever be expected to attribute things which
appear fairly incidentally and if anything they should have credited
netweather rather than OSM.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named street shown as missing on ITO OSM analysis

[Kevin Peat]

Donald,

On 29 March 2013 10:36, Donald Noble drno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hullo all,

 Wondering if anyone can shed any light on this. I added a street/name
 following a survey a couple of weeks ago, but it is still showing as missing
 on the ITO OSM analysis map.


Should be name = Columba Terrace not service = Columba Terrace

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] prow_ref

[Kevin Peat]

Dudley,

On 29 March 2013 15:25, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Many Thanks

 I'll use the code without the county council letters as this is what is in
 the name tag in JOSM.  I'll debate as to whether to split the path number
 according to the last number as this would require quite a bit of work and
 I've still not mapped all the paths in the parish yet!


I have integrated quite a lot of the DCC prow data for South Devon and
a typical example of what I have done tagging wise is:

highway = footway
designation = public_footpath
prow_ref = Chivelstone Footpath 12
source:prow_ref = definitive_statement

I used a perl script to reformat the data beforehand so I could just
copy and paste the tag values in josm as it takes way too long to do
it manually for hundreds of prows.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] Possible Boundary Vandalism Warning

[Kevin Peat]

Colin,

On 23 March 2013 14:24, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up...

 User SemanticTourist has been very busy recently with Neighbourhood Plan
 areas, particularly in East/West Sussex, Kent and central England.
 He has been adding them to the map in a way that IMHO is not compatible with
 current practice...

I noticed these uploads in the SW. I tried to find some mention of
them on the imports page without success and I don't remember reading
anything on the lists. There is something fairly unhelpful about them
in the wiki. What use are they exactly?

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] Mid Devon Mappers - on your marks...

[Kevin Peat]

On 19 March 2013 08:49, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 In case anybody has been updating OSM by removing the apostrophes, you might
 need to put them back again...


Most of the councils down here are so strapped for cash that I have
been waiting for one of them to argue that as everyone has a satnav we
don't need to bother with road signs at all.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] Highways Leading to Farms and single residential properties in rural areas

[Kevin Peat]

Dudley,

On 11 Mar 2013 21:27, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Is there a correct answer for this or is it a matter of mapping style?  I
am leaning towards using Highway=Service for these and keeping
Highway=Track for tracks that link from fields to farms or roads to
fields (i.e. not from roads to farmyards or residential properties...

Modern farms are more like industrial estates with access designed for 40t
trucks and massive farm machinery so in those cases I favour
highway=service for the main farm access road even if it has a central
divide like a track might have.

Highway=track is better for typical bridleways, green lanes, etc that only
a tractor or 4x4 could use.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Dartmoor needs fixing (heath area missing a chunk)

[Kevin Peat]

On 28 Feb 2013 23:08, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote:

 ...looks excellent as a get away from it all destination...

Bring some good boots as it's pretty muddy after 6 months of rain.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Dartmoor needs fixing (heath area missing a chunk)

[Kevin Peat]

On 1 Mar 2013 13:48, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Looks like I'm missing something here as I always assumed Dartmoor was a
moor, given its name.  Is there a reason for moors being tagged as heaths?


http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/protectedsites/sacselection/sac.asp?EUcode=UK0012929

Dartmoor is often described as upland heath which I suppose is basically
what moorland is.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode data

[Kevin Peat]

Aidan,

On 27 Feb 2013 09:04, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 Please don't load this data into OpenStreetMap. It's not a good idea.


100% agree with Andy. To be acceptable your script would need to do at
least as good a job as mappers could do by hand which I don't think is
possible with only centroids being available. It's easy for a person to
look at a postcode overlay and spot that a postcode just applies to one
side of a street but I don't see how your script can do this with any
degree of confidence.

What I would like to see is a tool (similar to ITO's OS Locator
reconciliation) to encourage people to add more postcodes.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode data

[Kevin Peat]

Aidan,

On 27 February 2013 11:12, Aidan McGinley
 ... I've only included the highest quality data
 which is postcode centroids that fall within a building within the area of
 the postcode...

 Does that allay any concerns about the import?

Does the centroid always fall within the postcode area? I didn't
realise that was the case if true, or is there an indicator in the
dataset for that?

I still think that these kinds of things are best structured so
mappers can run them themselves against their own areas if they want
to. In that way there is always someone to check the results and to
clean-up any problems that do occur.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] road names along the A50 (and elsewhere)

[Kevin Peat]

On 20 Feb 2013 19:38, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 ...I certainly wouldn't defend his attitude...


I don't know Mauls from Adam but how would you feel if you had been
contributing to the project for five years and someone you'd never heard of
sent you an unfriendly message threatening a ban for adding a name to a
road?

IMHO, individual contributors shouldn't be threatening others with bans
under any circumstances, this is what the OSMF is for.

Kevin (440k nodes)
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Re: [Talk-GB] road names along the A50 (and elsewhere)

[Kevin Peat]

On 20 Feb 2013 21:14, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 ...He copied data from a local newspaper article to name a road
wrongly...

Mauls might be wrong in this case but the name of a road in the local paper
isn't copyrighted. It's a basic fact, the newspaper didn't create it and
they certainly don't own it.

If I read in the local paper that the  Blockbusters down the road has
closed down I am perfectly free to use that information to remove it from
OSM. It is just ridiculous FUD to say otherwise.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenTrail - Freemap for Android

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Nick,

On 11 February 2013 12:59, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

 If you're interested in trying it out...


I installed the apk on a Nexus 7. The smallish downloadable packaged
maps are great and the render is nice and clear which is good for
mobile devices.

I did notice a couple of things from first use.

Had to try the map download quite a few times (mostly getting
Connection to http://www.free-map.org.uk refused) but managed to
download the SX map in the end. A download progress bar might be a
good idea for a future version as it is hard to know if anything is
happening.

Street name labels are extremely small and don't expand as you zoom in.

The POI search (only checked pubs) seems to only find those mapped as
nodes and not those mapped as areas. Search for other POI types would
also be useful (toilets, convenience stores, etc.).

highway=pedestrian doesn't appear to render.

The sea is rendered as white with just a thick blue line for the
coastline. I guess that is a feature?

Hope this is useful.

regards,
Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenTrail - Freemap for Android

[Kevin Peat]

On 11 Feb 2013 18:06, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

  ...I'm guessing most pois have a node even if they have an area as well.

That might be the case today but I am assuming that as more buildings are
added then more and more POI's will just be areas.

Mkgmap has a feature to generate POI nodes from POI areas. Maybe you should
do something similar to just compute nodes and add them to free-map.

 - sea: this is because it would be somewhat awkward to have a blue sea
and white land...


No problem.

I have been using AFTrack on Android which has a bunch of other neat gpx
and track related features but if it ever stops raining down here I will
definitely test your app some more.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Fowey estuary coastline problem

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Jason,

On 30 January 2013 08:00, Jason Woollacott wool...@hotmail.com wrote:
 This relates to some work I did on the Cornish county boundary a while back,
 the same also has happened at Newton Ferrers, just south of Plymouth.


I had been meaning to ask you about the boundary changes you made. Is
it right that the county boundaries now go some way up the rivers? In
the case of the River Dart all the way up to Dittisham. Just seems
counterintuitive (+ also looks crap).

Kevin (user:devonshire)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Fw: Fowey estuary coastline problem

[Kevin Peat]

So it seems, although the OS at least manages to limit the ugliness
factor. I wonder if there is some historical reason for it? Next time
I use the ferry I'll ask the guy to make sure he stays in Devon :]

Kevin



On 30 January 2013 11:37, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:
 That's how it appears on OS maps, e.g.
 http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=286849Y=54821A=YZ=115

 Steve


 On 30/01/2013 10:46, Jason Woollacott wrote:

 Hi Kevin,

 Agreed, it looks wrong...  The data came from the OS Boundary Line data,
 which I took from the gpx trace from Colin's site,
 http://csmale.dev.openstreetmap.org/os_boundaryline/

 I wish I knew the reasoning behind it...   I can understand the boundary
 being at the low water mark,  but it seems very odd just to draw it across
 at Dittisham.

 Jason




 -Original Message- From: Kevin Peat
 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:48 AM
 To: Jason Woollacott
 Cc: talk-gb
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Fowey estuary coastline problem

 Hi Jason,

 On 30 January 2013 08:00, Jason Woollacott wool...@hotmail.com wrote:

 This relates to some work I did on the Cornish county boundary a while
 back,
 the same also has happened at Newton Ferrers, just south of Plymouth.


 I had been meaning to ask you about the boundary changes you made. Is
 it right that the county boundaries now go some way up the rivers? In
 the case of the River Dart all the way up to Dittisham. Just seems
 counterintuitive (+ also looks crap).

 Kevin (user:devonshire)
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Barry,

 On 24 Jan 2013 11:38, Barry Cornelius barrycorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Please can you confirm that the routes are now better...


The Devon kml data looks spot on now.

thanks,
Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 23 Jan 2013 23:22, Barry Cornelius barrycorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, 23 Jan 2013, Kevin Peat wrote:

 The Converted kml file for Devon on this page:
 http://www.rowmaps.com/kmls/DN/


 Great, thanks.  Each path has a name, e.g.:
DN Seaton Footpath 2
 It would help if you gave the names of some of the paths you have
problems with.  Sorry, I should have asked this earlier

If you look at DN Dartmouth Bridleway 1 with the OS map background you can
see it is offset a little to the south.

As I said before not a big deal.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 24 January 2013 09:09, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com wrote:
 highway=track, access=yes, designation=unclassified_highway

...makes sense to me for those I have seen. These tracks have no
signage at all but clearly there are public access rights which would
be nice to reflect in osm.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 24 Jan 2013 11:38, Barry Cornelius barrycorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Please can you confirm that the routes are now better...

Thanks for that. I'll check it out and let you know (will probably be
tomorrow now).

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 24 Jan 2013 15:02, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com wrote:

 Since the public rights of way tagging using designation=* is a very
 British (actually English and Welsh) thing, I doubt it will ever be
 rendered on the main OSM map. :-(

I don't really see why that would be the case. There must be quite a few
tags that are only popular in single countries but that still get rendered.

Using designation for legal status effectively deprecates highway=byway and
highway=bridleway so if the standard map renders don't keep up they wont be
much use for countryside users.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 23 Jan 2013 18:58, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:


 ...

Thanks for that. Any thoughts on whether they should be specifically tagged
in OSM?

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 23 Jan 2013 19:38, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote

 Ideas welcome (I've not seen enough examples to get an understanding of
what these roads are actually like on the ground - photos ...

This is one:

http://m.google.co.uk/u/m/R9HAqI

The ones I have surveyed are glorified farm tracks with mostly gravel or
broken concrete surfaces, currently tagged as highway=track which seems
appropriate given the surface.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW surveying authorities (Was: Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=)

[Kevin Peat]

On 23 Jan 2013 21:42, Barry Cornelius barrycorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Which kml file are you referring to?

 Please give me a URL so that I can download the kml and check...

The Converted kml file for Devon on this page:

http://www.rowmaps.com/kmls/DN/

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Kevin Peat]

On 1 Jan 2013 20:34, Richard Fairhurst richard@systeme...

 Until then, the advanced mappers must share in OSM's collective
 responsibility to keep the project editable by newbies. That's why I
believe
 widespread farm landuse mapping in the countryside is an actively harmful
 indulgence.

Couldn't disagree more. Editing complexity is an urban problem. Even with
farming landuse added rural editing has got to be an order of magnitude
easier than editing a dense city centre.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] When is a police station not a police station?

[Kevin Peat]

On 31 December 2012 09:36, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:
 Many police services are considering providing front counter services out of
 post offices, cafes, supermarkets!

+ libraries as they have done in my town.


 I would suggest that we continue to use amenity=police both for police
 stations and for police amenities placed in other buildings (like front
 counters in fire stations).

I am not sure that makes sense. A police admin office with no public
facing services is not a police station as most people would
understand it. Maybe office=police (or something similar) would be
better for those locations.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: Footpath segmentation

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Bill,

On 30 December 2012 22:52, Bill Chadwick bill.chadwi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would be interested to hear how council released prow data has / has not
 been used within OSM to add to or replace existing contributed path data.
 Hants and Devon have released PROW data but sadly many of the paths in the
 New Forest and Dartmoor are not PROW (black dashes on the OS 1:50K). It
 would be good to use a blend of OSM and council data in such areas but I am
 unsure how to avoid duplicate paths if there are paths in OSM not tagged as
 PROW.


Anyone who has used the OS Dartmoor maps will know that they contain
rights of way across the open moor that don't actually exist as paths
on the ground and I can see some of them in this data. So although the
dataset may be useful I don't think anyone who doesn't know the areas
concerned should just try to blindly integrate it with what we already
have.

I also just checked a couple of sections of the SW Coastal Path near
me and the accuracy of the path in the dataset is pretty poor compared
to what we already have which is disappointing.

Kevin (user:devonshire)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Kevin Peat]

Steven,

On 31 Dec 2012 21:19, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
You can see what I did here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17


From just a quick glance your fields look okay but the names of the roads
and woods should be capitalised (not sure if you mapped those as well).

If you enjoy adding fields keep doing so. There may not be many now but I
expect more people will add them in the future when their areas are
complete for roads, buildings, etc.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Added road schemes announced in the Autumn Statement in OSM

[Kevin Peat]

On Dec 10, 2012 1:25 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote

 No. We should be mapping physical objects...

There are plenty of non-physical objects mapped in OSM but I don't see the
point of adding road schemes to the db before contracts are awarded.  The
South Devon Link Road near me was in the planning stage for more than 25
years before work started and having proposed routes in OSM for such long
periods wouldn't benefit anyone.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] FW: Office of National Statistics data

[Kevin Peat]

On 31 October 2012 18:14, Brian Quinion
openstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk wrote:

 Making this sort of distinction (what can have a postcode) is incredibly
 difficult - for instance NCP carparks do have a postcode.


Shame about that, but if someone does a full postcode search and there
are OSM objects tagged with that exact postcode then wouldn't it be
better just to return those objects or at least have them at the top
of the list?

In my case there are 3 buildings tagged with the full postcode but
when I search for it they appear below an entry for the suburb of the
town which I think if shown at all should be further down the list.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] FW: Office of National Statistics data

[Kevin Peat]

On 31 October 2012 14:50, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:
 I think this is quite a confusing approach. Post code searches often end up
 returning the wrong street that is also near the centroid, houses that don't
 belong to that post code that happen to be nearby, and also weird objects
 like trees and car club parking bays.

+1 on that. When I search for my own postcode, as well as the
buildings actually tagged with it the pub car park next door is also
returned and a nearby unclassified road neither of which have a
postcode set. I think in a postcode search it would be better not to
return things that could never have a postcode.

Kevin

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Re: [Talk-GB] importing house shapes

[Kevin Peat]

On Oct 16, 2012 9:15 PM, Adam Hoyle adam.li...@dotankstudios.com wrote:

 Hi Talk-GB,

 Sorry if I'm posting on the wrong list.

 ...I have a huge preference for Potlatch over JOSM...

You can get therapy for that :]

In JOSM you can press Q after drawing a building to cure the wobbles, not
sure if Potlatch has something similar.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Garmin eTrex 30 - just reduced on amazon

[Kevin Peat]

On Oct 8, 2012 3:15 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
  today..
  Garmin eTrex 30 Outdoor Handheld GPS Unit £157.49

 Thanks Peter. I've been humming and hahing (however it is spelled)
 for ages about whether to get one or not. So I now have, via the
 Amazon link here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Merchandise#Amazon
 and added a bike mount to the order (self-justified by the price
 reduction, so effectively a freebie).

I have owned a 20 for quite a while and subjectively the accuracy seems
better than the hcx I had before. Not sure if that is due to the glonass
support or just a more modern chipset. The interface hasn't improved much,
if at all.  I preferred the cycling of pages on the older models to the
back button used on the new ones. My hcx bike mount had an irritating
rattle which the new one doesn't have so I guess that is an improvement.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Donington Park

[Kevin Peat]

Haven't been to Donington for a couple of years but the only recent
change to the track itself that I am aware of is them moving the final
chicane back a few metres as shown in this image.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Donington_as_of_2010.svg

Kevin



On 8 May 2012 14:29, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote:
 (on a different mailing list) Philip Barnes wrote:


 Very true, and it really grates hearing Donington Park refered to as
 being in Derbyshire.


 Seeing that, I had a look to see if anyone had managed to get the current
 circuit layout for Donington in yet.  Unfortunately they haven't, and the
 Bing imagery's fairly antique (it still has the Dunlop Bridge, which hasn't
 been there for several years).

 Surely there must be some OSMers who are or know track day enthusiasts?  We
 can't all be lentil munching cyclists, surely? :-)

 Cheers,
 Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] On footpaths

[Kevin Peat]

On 5 May 2011 11:41, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote:

  getting people interested in (say) the southwest?

  area, and the National Parks. Time for some footpath parties, or
 There's me, living just off Exmoor.  Time limited, but I do what I can.


Ditto myself, around Torbay and on Dartmoor. We'll have to try and get those
surfer dudes up on the north coast to go out mapping when there are no
waves.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapdust Newbie Question

[Kevin Peat]

On 29 March 2011 17:14, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote:

 I think the roundabout symbol is where the user raised the bug - MapDust
 seams a rather apt name in my experience though - Dust doesn't serve any
 useful purpose  (in reality) and neither does mapdust's bugs.

 Kev


Despite the low signal to noise ratio I actually find mapdust quite
encouraging as it is obvious that normal members of the public are using the
maps which can only be a good thing for OSM. I would like the developers to
get rid of the other issue type which is pretty useless and also try to
differentiate between problems with the map data and problems with the
skobbler app itself.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapdust Newbie Question

[Kevin Peat]

Well I find it encouraging that people are using OSM otherwise what is the
point of us making it? The fact they are too stupid to work a satnav is
probably true as most members of the crowd are unfortunately idiots. The
mapdust folks just need to take that into account by stopping people raising
bugs with no descriptions or vague bug types.

Despite that I have picked up a couple of missing turn restrictions and some
missing speed limits in my area so I think it has value even if you have to
search for it.

Kevin


On 29 March 2011 18:40, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:


  Despite the low signal to noise ratio I actually find mapdust quite
 encouraging as it is obvious that normal members of the public are using the
 maps...


 Are you certain about that?

 I get the impression many are automatic sends (default fault descriptions)
  random positioning (accidentally pressed touch screens).
 I've seen many 'wrong turn indicated' messages in residential areas, that I
 suspect have been sent in error by users when handling their phone after
 they've parked their car.

 Dave F.



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Re: [Talk-GB] inferred single-carriageway NSL?

[Kevin Peat]

On 16 March 2011 17:00, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:




 Then there are the '30mph' which should for consistency be '30 mph' (with a
 space).


I don't see the point of editing just for consistency. Developers should
handle leading/trailing spaces, or the lack thereof, and different
capitalisation, as without any input validation the data will always be
inconsistent.




 Finally, I have a technical question on speed limits. What exactly is a
 dual carriageway? Are the slip-roads between two dual carriageways also dual
 carriageways (and therefore have 70mph limits) or are they not and are they
 therefore 60mph limits? Similarly for short sections where a single
 carriageway road divides for a short section.


I am also curious about this. There is a dual carriageway near me that has 3
roundabouts along its length. Two of the roundabouts have signed 40mph
limits but the third one has no signed limit. I assume the limit for that
roundabout is 60mph?

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] inferred single-carriageway NSL?

[Kevin Peat]

He added these tags to some dual carriageway in my area that already had
speed limit tags. I was just going to delete them as they seem pointless.
Anyone know otherwise?

Kevin

On 13 Mar 2011 12:28, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 Hi

 You've probably seen the numerous edits by chriscf. Can anyone explain the
purpose of these edits  what the the tags below even mean?
 I've had no reply to an email sent to him a couple of days ago

 In my locality, each of his edits already had a maxspeed (with units) tag
accurately mapped by people on the ground. I don't understand what these
extra tags add to the OSM's quality

 I'm most concerned about the 'inferred' references, which, to me, is no
better than guessing; something that should not be a part of OSM.

 Comment: units in speed limts, add/remove special road status, attempt
to infer NSL status

 Tags:
 FIXME:nsl = inferred single-carriageway NSL - remove this tag once
verified
 source:maxspeed = UK:nsl_single

 Cheers
 Dave F.




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Re: [Talk-GB] Incorrect use of OS VectorMap District when mapping?

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Jason,

I am the mapper (user:devonshire) who imported the woods in your first
example around Dartmouth but it was last May so not exactly recently. The
woods that are there now are a lot better than the NPE traced ones that we
had before. I took the view at the time that importing the VectorMap data
would be a major improvement.

Since the Bing imagery (old as it is) became available I am not sure why
anyone would bother importing VectorMap woods as it is a lot less hassle to
trace from Bing and just take the names from the OS StreetView. Ultimately I
will probably replace the OS sourced data but it isn't a big priority for me
right now. Feel free if you have nothing better to do.

The VectorMap data for streams is good especially as they are virtually
impossible to survey well on the ground. Filling in the blanks may seem like
a good idea but whether it is a track bridging the stream, the stream is
piped or just disappears for a bit (as often happens in wetland areas) is
hard to know without a survey.

Kevin







On 9 February 2011 18:42, Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com wrote:

 OS VectorMap District is an excellent source of data for features like
 streams and woodland, but these layers of data tend to be a bit of a mess
 and need to be stitched together as part of a method in importing into OSM.
 eg Streams will end when they meet a bridge, then reappear the other side
 of the bridge, so for OSM you need to link all the separate sections of the
 streams into one long stream

 Started to notice that the VectroMap District data in its raw state has
 started to appear in the map, from more than one mapper
 http://osm.org/go/erduA_U9K--
 http://osm.org/go/eugeBnUca-
 You can see stream are broken presumably at locations of bridges, and
 woodland has strips missing presumably along paths (and is also made up of
 several sections if you look at it in an editor)

 Doesn't appear to be guidance in the wiki about how to deal with VectorMap
 District. I just want to check I'm right in thinking this is the wrong way
 to go about it? If so I'll try and write up some guidance in the wiki.

 Jason


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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding a further 250, 000 UK roads quickly using a Bot?

[Kevin Peat]

I agree with you 100% on this. I think if OSM is street-level complete
(preferably with postcodes as well) then it will be picked up by a lot more
developers for their iPhone and Android apps and the amount of feedback we
could get would be a 100 times greater than now. A standardised, OSM hosted,
bug reporting api could also be offered to developers so they don't end up
building their own versions of MapDust.

Kevin




On 4 February 2011 01:14, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:


 Also, we are getting some of the most comprehensive on the ground
 verification and improvement reports from applications like the Sat-Nav
 Skobbler bugs with MapDust. The more complete the map is, the more people
 will use things like that and give feedback on errors.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding a further 250, 000 UK roads quickly using a Bot?

[Kevin Peat]

Richard,

I don't think we need a bot for this as the current tools seem quite
adequate to me. If the missing streets are added this year then that would
be great.

Building a community is ideal but I think outside the successful parts of
the country we are not going to get a lot of people wanting to do ground
surveys of whole towns. Mapping is a geeky activity and in large parts of
the SW, Wales and the North there just aren't that many of those people
about.

As I said before I think the only realistic approach in those areas is to
get the maps onto as many devices as we can (for which they need to be
street level complete) and then cultivate feedback from satnav/smartphone
users to add some richness to the data. Hopefully some of those people would
join the OSM community along the way.

Kevin





On 4 February 2011 12:15, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:


 Can't we actually have a go at doing it ourselves and finishing the UK this
 year? Say right, let's look at a bot in spring 2012, but we have a year to
 get this right? I'll do a town this weekend if you will.

 cheers
 Richard


 --
 View this message in context:
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Adding-a-further-250-000-UK-roads-quickly-using-a-Bot-tp5986539p5992349.html
 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-GB] pay_scale_area

[Kevin Peat]

I don't think this data serves any useful purpose. The polygon for my area
cut right across the middle of arbitrary areas so I deleted it a long time
ago. I've never had any feedback on that so assume no-one was using it.

Kevin






On 2 February 2011 10:40, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 Hi,

 I am presently doing some tracing in Dumfries and there is a way which is
 marked public_transport=pay_scale_area. It is part of a Naptan import. The
 area seems to be vague and is cutting across a number of areas where I am
 doing some detailed work.

 Is there a good reason that this should still be kept?

 Cheers

 Bob


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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode centroids

[Kevin Peat]

Hello Chris,

I was wondering why you don't see any value in just adding the postcode
centroids to the map?

There are probably 25000+ buildings in my area so it isn't feasible for me
to add them all and their addresses in less than a lifetime whereas adding
the postcode centroids would surely allow an instant improvement in
navigation for many users who are used to tapping a postcode into their
satnavs?

Kevin



On 20 January 2011 18:17, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 Now that people are tracing buildings from Bing etc addressing is getting
 more widespread, but one awkward area is postcodes. The Open data that OS
 released last year included the Code Point Open dataset which has the
 location of postcode centroids. These can help with adding postcodes to
 addresses.

 I have created an overlay from the postcode centroids. You can see it here
 http://codepoint.raggedred.net/ One way to use this is as an overlay in an
 editor. Blackadder has added how to set this up in JOSM on the wiki page
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Opendata#Code-Point_OpenIt 
 also works in Potlatch 2.

 I have only loaded some of the postcode areas so far. You can see these on
 the wiki page:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Chillly/codepoint

 Please do not just add the centroid to the map. I don't see the value of
 that. I am interested in the experience people gain from using this data,
 for example to add postcodes to an address such as addr:postcode.

 --
 Cheers, Chris
 user: chillly


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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode centroids

[Kevin Peat]

So I should delete the various admin boundaries in the db then as they
cannot be viewed on the ground?

That's great for Nominatim but what if I want to find a postcode on my
Garmin?

Kevin




On 21 January 2011 09:58, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:


 Because postcode centroids are not real - they don't exist so fail the
 ground truth rule.

 As I understand things the new version of Nominatim that is coming up
 will search the OpenData postcode data (and various other postcode
 databases for other countries) directly anyway.

 Tom

 --
 Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
 http://compton.nu/

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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode centroids

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Ed,

With the advent of Bing tracing and OS Opendata I wouldn't be surprised if
we had all the roads in Britain complete this year even in the areas where
there are never going to be many mappers on-the-ground. But house numbers
cannot be added remotely so it might take another 10 years for all that data
to be added by local people. In the meantime it would be nice to be able to
make a postcode search.

Kevin



On 21 January 2011 10:03, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 I can’t speak for Chris, but I don’t see any point in just adding the
 centroids to the map as any satnav application already has access to that
 data and can even keep it updated easier by keeping it separate and just
 replacing the Opendata source file each time a new version is released.



 I’m still not absolutely convinced that if we have all the roads and house
 numbers that postcodes are even necessary (other than for satnav users who
 are in the habit of entering them). Searching for the address should find it
 with or without the postcode being present. I can see they might be useful
 to distinguish between two roads with the same name in the same town, but I
 think that is fairly rare.



 Ed



 *From:* Kevin Peat [mailto:ke...@kevinpeat.com]
 *Sent:* 21 January 2011 09:52
 *To:* Chris Hill
 *Cc:* Talk-GB
 *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode centroids



 Hello Chris,

 I was wondering why you don't see any value in just adding the postcode
 centroids to the map?

 There are probably 25000+ buildings in my area so it isn't feasible for me
 to add them all and their addresses in less than a lifetime whereas adding
 the postcode centroids would surely allow an instant improvement in
 navigation for many users who are used to tapping a postcode into their
 satnavs?

 Kevin



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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcode centroids

[Kevin Peat]

Chris,

I'll go with the flow on this, there isn't much point adding stuff to the db
where there isn't a consensus. My postcode area is TQ so if you could add
this to the layer that would be great, it would be useful for tagging
buildings anyway.

Kevin



On 21 January 2011 11:46, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 On 21/01/11 09:51, Kevin Peat wrote:

 Hello Chris,

 I was wondering why you don't see any value in just adding the postcode
 centroids to the map?

 There are probably 25000+ buildings in my area so it isn't feasible for me
 to add them all and their addresses in less than a lifetime whereas adding
 the postcode centroids would surely allow an instant improvement in
 navigation for many users who are used to tapping a postcode into their
 satnavs?

 Kevin

 As others have said, the postcode centroids are completely artificial. I
 believe they were included as part of the Open Data as a way of giving some
 address information out without giving away the real address file data that
 would have been much more useful. Clearly OS  RM did not want to give any
 of this data away, they make money from it. They were forced to give some
 Open Data, so the fudged, soft detail of Street View and the postcode
 centroids are the result.

 The overlay is intended for anyone to use to assist with adding postcodes
 to OSM objects by referring to the centroids without adding them.

 I will add more data over time, but if anyone would like specific areas
 (e.g. HU) adding first please speak up.

 --
 Cheers, Chris
 user: chillly


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Re: [Talk-GB] Quiet lanes and one car per minute

[Kevin Peat]

Richard,

I think in my part of the SW the large majority of highway=unclassified
would be =1 car a minute average so just from a tagging perspective it
would be a lot easier just tagging those few that are busier.

Kevin






On 20 January 2011 12:48, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:

 Hi all,

 Sending this to talk-gb@ first (rather than tagging@ or talk@) as I'm just
 floating an idea...

 I've long wanted to get motor traffic levels on rural roads into OSM.
 Traffic levels make a huge difference to the enjoyability of rural cycling,
 and would enable really fun rendering and routing possibilities.
 OpenCycleMap could highlight quiet minor lanes even if they weren't in the
 NCN. CycleStreets could prefer them. I could do a lovely cycle touring map
 in the style of the old quarter-inch OS maps. And so on.

 Traffic levels are, also, a real pain in the saddle to record.

 OSM's iterative; always has been. We start as a broad-brush survey and get
 more detailed as time goes on. So it doesn't matter if we don't get detailed
 hour-by-hour traffic averages to begin with - it'll get better once people
 are used to recording it. But how to do that?

 Looking at some Sustrans and Countryside Agency design documents, it turns
 out that they share a criterion for quiet lanes: 1000 vehicles per day.
 Let's say (remember, we're talking really broad-brush here) that traffic is
 reasonably even between 6am and 10pm, i.e. 16 hours, and absent at other
 times. That's 1000/16=62.5 vehicles per hour.

 One car per minute.

 So, how about it? Find a country lane. If you're standing there at a
 typical time of day, and there's less than one car per minute, that's a
 quiet lane. Tag it traffic=quiet, or if you'd like to be precise,
 traffic:hourly=60 (or whatever). Really simple.

 We could do great things with this. As time went on, no doubt people would
 get into surveying it with more and more detail. Comments welcome!

 cheers
 Richard



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[Talk-GB] Fwd: Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO - apostrophes

[Kevin Peat]

Post to list as well

-- Forwarded message --
From: Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com
Date: 5 November 2010 09:27
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO -
apostrophes
To: Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com




On 4 November 2010 14:23, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:

 I am sorry to reopen this topic but I think it would be a good idea to
 reconsider
 the checking of punctuation in the OS Locator tiles.

 Look at central Exeter for example:
 
 http://oscompare.raggedred.net/?zoom=15lat=50.72407lon=-3.52609layers=B0TF
 

 Three-quarters of the differences reported here are in the presence or
 absence
 of a single apostrophe.  This masks the more important discrepancies and
 makes
 the report less useful.

 I know that in principle, apostrophe differences can be resurveyed, tracked
 down, investigated with phone calls to the council's naming department,
 etc.
 But in practice many mappers will prefer to concentrate on substantial
 differences and missing streets, considering punctuation less important.


Ed - I think specifically for Exeter as there are only 118 total differences
if the OS names are added where we don't have a name at all and any obvious
typos fixed then what is left (max 50?) could easily be surveyed in a couple
of trips. I did that for Torbay and managed to get the differences down to
zero. In most cases we were in error but there were a couple of OS errors
(when compared to the signage) so I think it is worth doing.

More generally mappers will have to decide if they can be bothered or not.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO -apostrophes

[Kevin Peat]

On 5 November 2010 12:38, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote:

 Aren't there two separate issues here:-

 1) Disagreements between OS and OSM,

 2) Representation of those disagreements in the tools.


I'm quite happy with the ITO tools as they are but if they had the resources
to render another map layer without the apostrophe differences then great
but I don't think they should change the current layer.

My main problem is how to define what is authoritive as far as names go. As
with most mappers I default to the road signs but as pointed out previously
they are put up by council staff not known for their infallability. Where I
am the council mapping can be accessed via their website but all the data is
OS based so doesn't add anything to the sources we already have. I have also
noticed name differences between the OS Streetview and Locator products. All
part of the fun.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] oscompare

[Kevin Peat]

It gets updated most days but from my observation is a day or two behind in
picking up changes.

Kevin


On 5 November 2010 15:03, Nikolay Metchev nikolaymetc...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have only recently found the oscompare website as a result of
 joining this mailing list.
 http://oscompare.raggedred.net/
 I was wondering if that gets updated and if so how often. I corrected
 one mistake on OSM and its still showing up in the compare website.

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Re: [Talk-GB] How to split the OS VectorMap District NaturalFeature_Line data into smaller squares?

[Kevin Peat]

Rather than splitting the data into smaller squares, I used the process
described on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OS_Shapefiles to
extract specific things, in my case waterways and woods. You just extract
the features you want in QGIS and the Python scripts can easily be modified
to add the correct tags for whatever you have extracted.

Kevin



On 30 September 2010 01:01, m902 m902@gmail.com wrote:


 I tried using OGR2OSM on one of the 10kmX10km squares of
 NaturalFeature_Line data, but it crashes with a KeyError.
 I can reproject it and examine it with QGIS, so the data  seems to be OK.
 In any case it is far too much data for me to work with.
 Does anyone know of a tool that can split this easily into smaller squares?
 Obviously I can select an area with QGIS and save it, but I couldn't see a
 way to split into multiple squares.

 Thanks...Martin


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Re: [Talk-GB] How to split the OS VectorMap District NaturalFeature_Line data into smaller squares?

[Kevin Peat]

Not a great solution but for those I used the OS tiles as a background in
JOSM and cut and pasted just the streams between layers, joining the
segments where needed. Worked okay for me just doing my local area.

Kevin


On 30 September 2010 10:18, m902 m902@gmail.com wrote:

  Yes, I tried that (succesfully) to get woodland, ponds and rivers
 (riverbanks). I'm now trying to get streams, which only exist in the
 NaturalFeature_Line data.
 Unfortunately all the riverbanks and ponds also exist in that data (as
 lines and with the same feature code).
 And in many (most) cases, the streams are in many multiple segments so the
 process described doesn't really work.
 So I'm just trying to find an alternative.
 When OGR2OSM works, the results are good enough (to then modify with JOSM).



 On 30/09/2010 09:15, Kevin Peat wrote:

 Rather than splitting the data into smaller squares, I used the process
 described on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OS_Shapefiles to
 extract specific things, in my case waterways and woods. You just extract
 the features you want in QGIS and the Python scripts can easily be modified
 to add the correct tags for whatever you have extracted.

 Kevin


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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Bike Shop dataset obtained: please merge in locations in your area

[Kevin Peat]

Yes, that was exactly the same for me so local knowledge is definitely
required.

Kevin



On 14 September 2010 21:44, Richard Mann 
richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote:

 At least one of the ones round here is the home/workshop of a roving
 bike mechanic, so treat the data with care!

 Richard


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Re: [Talk-GB] Dorset/Wilts county boundary wrong...is there adefinitive source?

[Kevin Peat]

On 8 September 2010 10:07, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com wrote:

 Until the issue of whether the OS datasets can be used under the new
 license/CT is resolved it seems a bit pointless doing anything like this
 whatever the merits might be.


 The OS datasets are compatible with OSM as it stands at the moment.
 Worrying about future incompatibilities that may or may not happen is not
 helpful to the project.
 ...



True enough, and everyone is free to use their time as they see fit, but I
wouldn't want someone to invest a significant amount of effort on something
like this without knowing there might be a problem even if it works out fine
in the end.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Why I'm not currently using OS Opendat as a source WAS The last 2%

[Kevin Peat]

 However, that doesn't change the fact that the OS OpenData license is
 incompatible with the contributor terms, and DbCL, and quite possibly
 ODbL too.


I thought this was still to be confirmed?  It may not be that important to
townies but there is a lot of value in the OS data for rural mappers (woods,
streams, rivers, coastline, etc.) and it is a crucial issue for me.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Use of OS OpenData in OSM

[Kevin Peat]

Nice work, but as the OS data is a good dataset and compatible with our
current license why would anyone be surprised that people are using it. I've
uploaded woods and waterways for my area so it looks pretty blue but the
streets were surveyed on the ground and I would think that might be the same
for quite a few areas. This sort of data (woods, streams, etc.) is a bit
less core to the map than areas where people are filling in missing streets
from OS data.

In 6 months time the OS data will be so entrenched in the UK map that we
could never strip it out in any useful way without vast amounts of fixup
being required and I can't imagine many people being interested in doing
that. So for me at least whatever license we change to must be OS
compatible.

Kevin








On 21 July 2010 22:57, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I have tidied up my OS Opendata Map (
 http://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata).

 The changes are:

- Lines and dots are smaller so it looks less of a mess.
- It excludes source tags containing '25k', 'os7' and 'photos', which
were giving quite a lot of false positives, especially in Scotland.  Let me
know if you see any others and I can exclude them.
- I have left my original layer available as 'tiles1', but this is not
displayed by default - you can add it with the '+' control to see the
differences.
- The about http://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata/about.html page
has been updated to describe how it works better (still crude, but more
complicated SQL!).

 There are still some surprising things here - for example National Cycle
 Route 1 is highlighted, even though I know that the bits I added are not
 from OS Opendata (see the bit from Whitby to Sunderland 
 herehttp://www.maps.webhop.net/osm_opendata/?zoom=10lat=54.6778lon=-1.37818layers=BFT).
   It seems that someone has tagged the relation (Relation Number 9579) with
 'OS_OpenData_StreetView' - I don't know why they would have done this?

 Regards

 Graham.


 On 20 July 2010 23:40, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Thank you all for your comments.
 I'll not get into the licence change debate here - plenty of that on
 osm-talk

 -  I agree that there are a few surprises highlighted here.   There are a
 couple of cycle tracks highlighted that I survryed myself, so I will have to
 check the underlying data.  When I get home I will improve the filtering to
 exclude os 1:25k references.
 - I will see what I can do with the rendering as Gregory suggests.
 - The supermarkets reference is copy-and-paste-itis on my behalf - sorry!
 - Emilie is probably right that strictly I should be interested in
 history, but I cant do that easily from a planet extract, and I don't think
 it will matter too much with opendata being so recent.   A curious legal
 point is that if a way was originally derived from os-opendata, but
 subsequently re-surveyed, is it still derived from opendata?

 Graham

 
 Graham Jones
 (from my phone)

 On Jul 20, 2010 4:41 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Robert Whittaker (OSM) 
 robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com robert.whittaker%2b...@gmail.com wrote:
  ...
 What's more, because Produced Works can be published under a restrictive
 license we couldn't get the additional data back by tracing either.  ODbL +
 CT makes getting data back into OSM much harder than it is now by a massive
 degree.

 BTW, how would a corporation agree to the Contributor Terms anyway?  The
 sign-up page only caters for individuals.  Has, for example, CloudMade,
 agreed to the contributor terms yet and how could we tell if they had?

 80n



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 --
 Dr. Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK
 email: grahamjones...@gmail.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging gates on cycle path

[Kevin Peat]

I think barrier=gate is more for open/closing gates across a highway (like a
farm gate for instance) whereas barrier=cycle_barrier is for the typical
offset barrier you see on paths/cycleways. Also tagging the barrier node as
bicycle=yes|true might help the routing.

Kevin



On 20 July 2010 18:11, Peter Reed peter.r...@aligre.co.uk wrote:

  Near to Littlewick Green there is an off-road section of Sustrans
 National Route NCN4 which has series of gates across it. They are plotted as
 nodes on the cycle path, tagged as “barrier=gate”.



 The map is here -
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.5088lon=-0.78743zoom=16layers=00B0FTF



 These are proper gates, on a wide path, that act as barriers to cars.
 However, they are not barriers to pedestrians or cyclists, who just walk or
 ride around them.



 Open Cycle Map routes through the gates.

 Gosmore doesn’t – it shows a route that takes a long way round on proper
 roads (which is a bit strange on a national cycle path!) - here -
 http://nroets.dev.openstreetmap.org/demo/index.html?lat=51.49958lon=-0.78261zoom=15layers=B000FTFTT



 Any thoughts on the best way to address this?



 My take is that one option would be to plot the little diversions that the
 cycle path takes  around the gates, and mark them as part of the cycleway.

 Another approach would be to use some combination of tags that marks these
 as gates that are barriers to cars, but not to cycles or pedestrians.



 I’m inclined towards the first, since that would be the most accurate
 reflection of what is on the ground, but it does seem unnecessarily
 complicated.

 I am not sure what the best combination of tags for the second would be.



 I am aware that this kind of thing must have been discussed somewhere
 before now, so my apologies in advance if I am raising it unnecessarily.
 However, I have not been able to find any guidance, so a link to any
 guidance that exists would be a big help.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Strange Search Result in Devon or should that be Kelland Cross?

[Kevin Peat]

Ed,


 In fact, I don't think it should even be that.  In rural Devon it is common
 for
 crossroads to be named - you can see the name on the side of the crossroad
 sign.
 This doesn't necessarily indicate a 'locality', although sometimes there
 are
 small villages or hamlets named after a crossroads.

 The normal way I tag such things is to add a name tag to the intersection
 node.
 At the moment Mapnik doesn't render them, but I think I will file an
 enhancement
 request for that.


As a Devon mapper I agree with you on this, it is the crossroads that is
named not necessarily the locality so I tag the crossroads node, but it
seems that place=locality is trendy so people are doing that instead by
putting a node near the junction.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Using OS Shapefiles

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for this, very helpful.  I just followed this through and converted
data for some woods near me and it all worked okay apart from your ogr2ogr
command line has the output and input files around the wrong way (gdal
1.7.2).

Kevin




On 11 May 2010 18:28, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 Tim Francois wrote:
  Chris
 
  Any chance of providing some command snippets for using gdal's ogr2ogr
  for us plebs who've never used it? I do not understand the man page
  whatsoever!!
 
  Thanks
  Tim
 Done.

 Cheers, Chris

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Re: [Talk-GB] Liam123 again

[Kevin Peat]

 these data may contain errors, you can use it at your own risk, but
 you can't sue us.


This whole wikipedia comparison seems bogus to me.  Kids use wikipedia to do
their homework, people don't trust their lives to it like they do with maps
every day of the week.  I've used an OS map many times to navigate
across Dartmoor in bad weather.  I would like to do the same with an OSM map
but I don't want to end up falling into a quarry because of some idiot's
vandalism.

Total freedom to edit can only work if the number of good mappers
outweighs the bad in a particular area.  This might be the case in
Birmingham or Bonn but I bet there are loads of smaller towns and rural
areas even in the UK where one mapper has done the bulk of the work.

I don't think that putting some basic restrictions on newbies for a few
weeks (maybe just being able to add POI's or raise bugs on existing work)
would discourage people who really want to get involved but it would stop
random kids from signing up and immediately screwing up months of other
people's efforts.

Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mentors

[Kevin Peat]

Hi Jack,

Welcome to mapping in the west country.

Without any in-depth checking the service roads you've mapped look okay

Drawing in a roundabout isn't too hard.  Just split the road(s) that you
want to insert the roundabout into, draw in a rough circle for the
roundabout (doesn't have to be a perfect geometric circle), tag it
appropriately and reconnect the previously split roads to the roundabout.
Practice makes perfect.

My experience with built-in mobile phone GPS receivers is that the accuracy
isn't as good as dedicated GPS units.  I guess you can test it by travelling
over some roads that have already been mapped to see if what you get is
usable.

regards,
Kevin


On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Jack Stringer jack.ix...@googlemail.comwrote:

 Well as we are on the subject of people being mentors.

 I have just done my first bit of mapping today. After I finished work
 I went to KFC for dinner (can't be bothered to cook) then all of a
 sudden I felt like doing some driving around. So I went around the
 trading estate and as it is a weekend its easy to drive about with out
 looking too suspicious. I have just got home and uploaded my gps log
 and I have added a few ways, added a few businesses. Could someone
 have a quick look and tell me if I am half way there.


...
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Re: [Talk-GB] Clarifying tagging for footway/cycleway etc

[Kevin Peat]

Just an idea, practical doesn't come into it ;-

But if we've always done it that way wins out every time then the maps 
we produce probably aren't going to be as useful as they could be.

Kevin


Tom Hughes wrote:
 Kevin Peat wrote:
 Richard Mann wrote:
 As a general principle, I think Key:highway should do most of the 
 work. It should concentrate on describing the physical nature of the 
 way...

 +1 on this...I also think highway should just describe the physical 
 way so probably just:

 highway=path|track|road

 With the rest of the stuff split out:
 
 Do you think that, just possibly, having to change the tagging on every 
 single road in the database to implement your scheme might make it just 
 a tad impractical...
 
 Tom
 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Mappers in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and Somerset

[Kevin Peat]

John McKerrell wrote:
 Thanks for the replies:
 
 On 4 Feb 2008, at 12:34, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 
 Sounds like you might consider arranging a mapping party. I bet there
 would
 be plenty of takers for a trip to Cornwall on a warm weekend
 Or even Dorset and Somerset (more accessible hence more time for  
 mapping
 :-) )

 I wasn't sure a mapping party would be ideal as what's most needed is  
 mapping over a large area (i.e. driving), but it's certainly a  
 possibility.
 
 
 On 4 Feb 2008, at 09:24, Kevin Peat wrote:
 I've very recently started to map my own area, Torbay in South Devon,
 and the coverage is currently pretty poor with even A roads and the
 railway not fully mapped.

 Looking around the rest of the area there is an awful lot to be done
 although I suppose it depends on exactly what data is required.

 There's definitely a lot needs doing to get the area complete, but  
 I'm really only after major roads, possibly with a few lower  
 classification roads when there's an attraction nearby. Do you have a  
 car, do you think you would be able to help with specifically mapping  
 major roads?

I'm a bit short on free time but am happy to map anything specific 
within an hour or so's drive from Paignton.  I'm in the tourism industry 
and know most of the attractions around the area so if you can get a 
list of what is to be included then I could easily check to see if the 
relevant roads are mapped.

Kevin



 
 
 On 3 Feb 2008, at 22:30, Tom Hughes wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   John McKerrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The maps are sold on a county-by-county basis and he's going to start
 with Cornwall, Devon, and Dorset and Somerset (3 maps) and see how
 they sell before deciding whether to go further.
 Probably not the best choices in terms of OSM coverage.
 
 Unfortunately that's not the guiding force behind the choices,  
 they're mainly looking at popular tourist regions.
 
 John
 
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