Re: [Talk-GB] “Correcting” existing data wi th OS Opendata

2010-07-19 Thread Jerry Clough - OSM
This was me, but I know that Paul Sladen, Simon Halsey, and probably others, 
were also affected.

Has anyone has sent the offending user a message? 

He/she is a relative newcomer, and has edited in Trowbridge as well as 
Carlton/Gedling. They have also edited in Germany, but no indication of traces 
or on-the-ground surveys. Some of my GPS ways unfortunately also had 
fixme=location approximate, which was probably as a result of over use of 
copying tags from one way to another. This may have invited editing, but other 
'corrections' have been made so that now many streets are slightly misaligned 
from GPS traces.

I, and I would guess other active contributors around Nottingham, have been 
avoiding using StreetView and Locator other than to add names on stuff mapped 
from aerial images. In particular the Carlton/Gedling area is one which my 
personal preference was to leave the current status as is until ground 
surveys 
were done. Obviously other contributors have different preferences, 
time-scales, 
needs etc., so I recognise that this might not be possible. I would hope 
thought 
that some contact with active local mappers would be made before bulk in-fill 
with StreetView or similar sources, particularly as it cannot have escaped 
their 
attention that this was possible.

Last Summer I mapped a tiny part of Middlesbrough over 2.5 hours. When 
StreetView became available an area about 25 times larger was mapped in a 
similar timescale. The 'productivity' difference is so huge that a single 
armchair mapper can swamp contributions from people doing ground survey. On the 
other hand, places like Oldham, Rochdale, Darlington, Middlesbrough are now so 
much more usable in OSM. 


So we still have the trade-off between usability of the map data, contributor 
'happiness', mapping from an armchair versus on-the-ground. The use of 
StreetView exemplifies all these issues.

Jerry





From: Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Sun, 18 July, 2010 13:54:30
Subject: [Talk-GB] “Correcting” existing data with OS Opendata

I just added a comment to the talk page about OS Opendata[1]:  It seems
that some people have been using OS Opendata to “correct” existing data,
moving ways to match OS Opendata, and in some cases removing attributes
(such as surface=paved).

Please, please, please, pretty please don’t just assume your data is
better than the existing data, especially if yours is derived from
another source and the existing data is from a ground survey.

[1]: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Ordnance_Survey_Opendata#Modifying_Existing_Data


Simon
-- 
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.—John Gall



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Re: [Talk-GB] “Correcting” existing data wi th OS Opendata

2010-07-19 Thread Dave F.

 On 19/07/2010 11:40, Jerry Clough - OSM wrote:
This was me, but I know that Paul Sladen, Simon Halsey, and probably 
others, were also affected.


Has anyone has sent the offending user a message?

He/she is a relative newcomer, and has edited in Trowbridge as well as 
Carlton/Gedling.
I've been keeping an eye on his/her Trowbridge edits  can't see 
anything destructive, just a couple of minor errors, but we all make 
those don't we?


Overall I thinks he's adding to map.

Cheers
Dave F.

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Re: [Talk-GB] “Correcting” existing data wi th OS Opendata

2010-07-19 Thread Simon Ward
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:18:45PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
 In principle I understand what your saying  agree to some extent;
 except that I think it's incorrect to assume that on ground
 surveying is necessarily more accurate. GPS tracks are prone to
 being sent off course by the surroundings such as heavy tree
 coverage  steep topography. In these cases the maps are probably
 more accurate.

OSM primarily maps what is on the ground, not what other geodata says is
there.

Other data has been shown to be quite inaccurate compared to OSM,
including mastermap data.  Using our own collective knowledge just
produces better results anyway.

I’m well up for using OS OpenData to enhance our data, but the cases
I’ve seen involve arbitrary moving of ways to directly match OS data,
and loss of metadata.

Simon
-- 
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.—John Gall


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[Talk-GB] “Correcting” existing data wi th OS Opendata

2010-07-18 Thread Simon Ward
I just added a comment to the talk page about OS Opendata[1]:  It seems
that some people have been using OS Opendata to “correct” existing data,
moving ways to match OS Opendata, and in some cases removing attributes
(such as surface=paved).

Please, please, please, pretty please don’t just assume your data is
better than the existing data, especially if yours is derived from
another source and the existing data is from a ground survey.

[1]: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Ordnance_Survey_Opendata#Modifying_Existing_Data

Simon
-- 
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.—John Gall


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