Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[SK53]

Dont forget the amenity=bicycle_parking usage (mentioned in the wiki) where
the semantics are different from those you describe.12200+ examples in
England.

Probably the more usual way of mapping a platform canopy is with
building=roof or building=canopy with possibly wall=no.

Jerry



On 29 May 2018 at 15:48, Dan S  wrote:

> > On 29/05/18 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:
> >>
> >> At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I
> know
> >> to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.
> >
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue seems to be that the
> carto change works on the assumption that covered=yes implies the
> feature isn't visible (e.g. because partly underground), whereas
> others may be are working on the assumption that covered=yes means you
> won't get rained on (e.g. there is some kind of roof)?
>
> The wiki seems pretty clear actually - it only really talks about the
> first of the two meanings.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered
> I'm not aware of any "UK-local" consensus to be different about that.
>
> I personally haven't use the "covered" tag (no reason), but I do add
> building=roof objects to some train stations.
>
> Dan
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[Dave F]

I think Carto & anyone who added it to underground metro stations have 
misinterpreted the 'covered' tag.


As it's not the whole length of the platform, you could add a 
building=roof polygon.


Shelters, bins, benches etc are better mapped as individual nodes at 
their locations, rather than adding them as sub-tags to the platform.


Cheers
DaveF

On 29/05/2018 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:


Guys

Recently changed Chorley station adding more details. Added 
covered=yes cos there is a canopy for us to huddle under but not the 
whole length of the platform, there are also bus shelter type of 
shelters so shelter=yes was also added.


Checked that my changes had rendered ok but found to my horror that 
the platforms had disappeared. Investigations showed -


https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kocio/diary -


OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.11.0


Posted bykocio on 11 May 
2018 inEnglish (Englis h) 



  * Hiding railway=platform with location=underground, tunnels and
covered=yes

Have changed Chorley to delete covered tag - expect the render to show 
as expected for the surface.
A quick overpass  (inexpertly done) shows the following railway 
stations may be affected adversely -

Holyhead
Manchester Airport
Salford Quays - Anchorage
Manchester Piccadilly
Harrogate
Hull
Sleaford
Bury St Edmunds
Guildford
Bracknell
Westbury
and many in London and there are others

I know we shouldn't map to the render but the meaning of covered seems 
to vary globally.   I know that

Manchester Airport
Salford Quays - Anchorage
Manchester Piccadilly
Harrogate
Guildford
Bracknell
Westbury
are all similar to Chorley - I've visited or passed through them; 
Manchester Piccadilly  I know well and the solitary (covered=yes) 
platform 12 is the same as the other 11 platforms - mostly under the 
glass train shed.
In my mind accurate representation of platform location is so 
important when travelling.


At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I 
know to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.


Looking at Manchester Piccadilly I can see that there are many 
opportunities to improve the data and thus the representation, anyone 
fancy a mapping party there?


Regards
Tony  - TonyS999









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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[Dan S]

> On 29/05/18 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:
>>
>> At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I know
>> to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.
>

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue seems to be that the
carto change works on the assumption that covered=yes implies the
feature isn't visible (e.g. because partly underground), whereas
others may be are working on the assumption that covered=yes means you
won't get rained on (e.g. there is some kind of roof)?

The wiki seems pretty clear actually - it only really talks about the
first of the two meanings.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered
I'm not aware of any "UK-local" consensus to be different about that.

I personally haven't use the "covered" tag (no reason), but I do add
building=roof objects to some train stations.

Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[Mark Goodge]

On 29/05/2018 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:

Guys

Recently changed Chorley station adding more details. Added covered=yes 
cos there is a canopy for us to huddle under but not the whole length of 
the platform, there are also bus shelter type of shelters so shelter=yes 
was also added.


I think 'covered' is the wrong tag, in this context. According to the 
wiki, it doesn't simply mean something that has a roof (or canopy), it 
means something that is underneath something else.


From my understanding of it, a more correct use of this in a railway 
context would be at somewhere like, say, St Pancras, where you would map 
the building as a whole and then map the platforms underneath the train 
shed as "covered". But I think it's complicated anyway, as even where 
there is a separate train shed, it doesn't usually cover the entire 
length of all of the platforms. (And I note that St Pancras doesn't 
actually have the platforms tagged as "covered", anyway).


At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I 
know to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.


I think removing it would be correct, too.

Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[Andy Townsend]

On 29/05/2018 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:


Checked that my changes had rendered ok but found to my horror that 
the platforms had disappeared. Investigations showed -


https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kocio/diary -


OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.11.0


Posted bykocio on 11 May 
2018 inEnglish (Englis h) 



  * Hiding railway=platform with location=underground, tunnels and
covered=yes



Personally I think that's an error on their part (although it's their* 
style not mine etc. etc.).  The relevant issue is 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3162 and no one 
said "it's a silly idea" so it's difficult to criticise the person who's 
idea it was going forward on that basis.


Have changed Chorley to delete covered tag - expect the render to show 
as expected for the surface.


If it was me I wouldn't change the tagging just to match one particular 
renderer - someone might come along and do something useful with the tag 
later, but they can only do that if the data's there.  Personally I've 
tended to do partially-covered station platforms as "building=roof" (if 
I've even remembered to do that) but I might be in a minority of 1 there.


In the meantime I'm sure that there are lots of maps that show covered 
railway platforms - I know that 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=53.653154=-2.626704 
does.




Looking at Manchester Piccadilly I can see that there are many 
opportunities to improve the data and thus the representation, anyone 
fancy a mapping party there?
I'm sure that you'd get a few takers for that - might be worth trying to 
contact the group that organised the "Joy Diversion" the other week and 
see if you can invite attendees to that along.


Best Regards,

Andy

* the people who put the hard graft into designing and developing the 
style are naturally the people who get most influence over how it looks.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[David Woolley]

On 29/05/18 14:53, Tony Shield wrote:
At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I 
know to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.


I disagree; it is tagging for the renderer.

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[Talk-GB] Railway Platforms - Covered=yes are not shown in latest rendering

[Tony Shield]

Guys

Recently changed Chorley station adding more details. Added covered=yes 
cos there is a canopy for us to huddle under but not the whole length of 
the platform, there are also bus shelter type of shelters so shelter=yes 
was also added.


Checked that my changes had rendered ok but found to my horror that the 
platforms had disappeared. Investigations showed -


https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kocio/diary -


   OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.11.0
   

Posted bykocio on 11 May 2018 
inEnglish (Englis h) 



 * Hiding railway=platform with location=underground, tunnels and
   covered=yes

Have changed Chorley to delete covered tag - expect the render to show 
as expected for the surface.
A quick overpass  (inexpertly done) shows the following railway stations 
may be affected adversely -

Holyhead
Manchester Airport
Salford Quays - Anchorage
Manchester Piccadilly
Harrogate
Hull
Sleaford
Bury St Edmunds
Guildford
Bracknell
Westbury
and many in London and there are others

I know we shouldn't map to the render but the meaning of covered seems 
to vary globally.   I know that

Manchester Airport
Salford Quays - Anchorage
Manchester Piccadilly
Harrogate
Guildford
Bracknell
Westbury
are all similar to Chorley - I've visited or passed through them; 
Manchester Piccadilly  I know well and the solitary (covered=yes) 
platform 12 is the same as the other 11 platforms - mostly under the 
glass train shed.
In my mind accurate representation of platform location is so important 
when travelling.


At the end of this week (2nd June) I intend to change the platforms I 
know to remove covered=yes, if you disagree please challenge.


Looking at Manchester Piccadilly I can see that there are many 
opportunities to improve the data and thus the representation, anyone 
fancy a mapping party there?


Regards
Tony  - TonyS999







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