Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging modal filters and school streets
Would it be worth adding something like traffic_intervention:website to link to the relevant traffic order in The Gazette (an OGL source) or the relevant highway authority's website? On 27/09/2020 00:53, Stephen Colebourne wrote: > Here is the outline proposal: > > """ > The traffic_intervention tag is used to identify locations where roads > have been closed to general traffic for the purpose of preventing > undesirable through traffic. > > The traffic_calming tag covers many use cases where the road is open > but something physical has been added to slow down traffic. Sometimes > however, the local traffic authority goes further and closes a road to > through traffic - traffic_intervention is used to record these > interventions. Mappers should ensure that all normal tags are still > applied to the relevant road segment, traffic_intervention is intended > to be used in addition to existing tags to capture the semantic > meaning. > > traffic_intervention=modal_filter > A modal filter is a road closure that is designed to allow certain > modes of transport through, typically bicycles and pedestrians. It is > intended for short sections of road that used to be open to general > traffic and are no longer. The standard modal filter that allows > cycles should be mapped as follows: > * A way representing the section of road that is closed to general traffic: > highway=cycleway, traffic_intervention=modal_filter, other tags as > necessary, especially including the road name. > * A barrier in the middle of the way representing what is being used > to close the road. For example: > barrier=bollard, foot=yes, bicycle=yes > > traffic_intervention=bus_gate > A bus gate is a short section of road that has been closed to general > traffic but is open to buses, bicycles and pedestrians. It should be > mapped as a bus road would be, but with the additional > traffic_intervention tag. > * A way representing the section of road that is closed to general traffic: > highway=service, bus=yes, bicycle=yes, foot=yes, traffic_intervention=bus_gate > > traffic_intervention=school_street > A school street is a section of road near a school that is closed to > general traffic, often only at certain times of day. The access > restrictions are normally mapped using motor_vehicle:conditional. > Simply use traffic_intervention=school_street to add the additional > semantic meaning. > > Mappers may additionally specify the year, month or full date when the > road was restricted if known: > traffic_intervention:date= > traffic_intervention:date= > traffic_intervention:date= > > """ > > Example modal filter: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/851872727 > Example bus gate: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/851872729 > > What do people think? Should this be put forward to the tagging list? > Would anyone here use this scheme? > > Stephen > > > > On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 18:20, Stephen Colebourne wrote: >> >> Given we have hundreds of existing and new modal filters* and school >> streets**, I think we could do with having a *high level* tag for them >> that captures the concept. >> >> Currently, these are hard to find as they can be represented in many >> ways. eg. for modal filters: >> - highway=cycleway >> - highwat=footway >> - highway=service/residential with motor_vehicle=no >> - plus potential associated barrier=xxx >> >> School streets are no more than a motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (xxx) >> which again loses the semantic meaning. >> >> What I'd like is a new tag that captures the high level concept. It >> would be a bit like traffic_calming, but I don't think that adding >> more values to that is appropriate. Any new value would go on the way >> that is no longer open. These are generally verifiable on the ground, >> even for filters that were added in the 1970s. >> >> Unfortunately, I don't have a great name. "traffic_restrictions" is >> taken as is "traffic_control". My best suggestion is >> "traffic_intervention=modal_filter"/"school_street", as they are >> essentially interventions by local government to better manage the >> street space. >> >> Any thoughts? >> Stephen >> >> * a "modal filter" is a place where the road is closed, or made one >> way for the purposes of controlling traffic, such as to stop rat >> running. It is commonly linked to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) >> but they have been around for 50 years, and are generally easy to >> spot. >> >> ** a "school street" is a street that is only accessible by residents >> at school drop-off and pick-up time > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging modal filters and school streets
Here is the outline proposal: """ The traffic_intervention tag is used to identify locations where roads have been closed to general traffic for the purpose of preventing undesirable through traffic. The traffic_calming tag covers many use cases where the road is open but something physical has been added to slow down traffic. Sometimes however, the local traffic authority goes further and closes a road to through traffic - traffic_intervention is used to record these interventions. Mappers should ensure that all normal tags are still applied to the relevant road segment, traffic_intervention is intended to be used in addition to existing tags to capture the semantic meaning. traffic_intervention=modal_filter A modal filter is a road closure that is designed to allow certain modes of transport through, typically bicycles and pedestrians. It is intended for short sections of road that used to be open to general traffic and are no longer. The standard modal filter that allows cycles should be mapped as follows: * A way representing the section of road that is closed to general traffic: highway=cycleway, traffic_intervention=modal_filter, other tags as necessary, especially including the road name. * A barrier in the middle of the way representing what is being used to close the road. For example: barrier=bollard, foot=yes, bicycle=yes traffic_intervention=bus_gate A bus gate is a short section of road that has been closed to general traffic but is open to buses, bicycles and pedestrians. It should be mapped as a bus road would be, but with the additional traffic_intervention tag. * A way representing the section of road that is closed to general traffic: highway=service, bus=yes, bicycle=yes, foot=yes, traffic_intervention=bus_gate traffic_intervention=school_street A school street is a section of road near a school that is closed to general traffic, often only at certain times of day. The access restrictions are normally mapped using motor_vehicle:conditional. Simply use traffic_intervention=school_street to add the additional semantic meaning. Mappers may additionally specify the year, month or full date when the road was restricted if known: traffic_intervention:date= traffic_intervention:date= traffic_intervention:date= """ Example modal filter: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/851872727 Example bus gate: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/851872729 What do people think? Should this be put forward to the tagging list? Would anyone here use this scheme? Stephen On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 18:20, Stephen Colebourne wrote: > > Given we have hundreds of existing and new modal filters* and school > streets**, I think we could do with having a *high level* tag for them > that captures the concept. > > Currently, these are hard to find as they can be represented in many > ways. eg. for modal filters: > - highway=cycleway > - highwat=footway > - highway=service/residential with motor_vehicle=no > - plus potential associated barrier=xxx > > School streets are no more than a motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (xxx) > which again loses the semantic meaning. > > What I'd like is a new tag that captures the high level concept. It > would be a bit like traffic_calming, but I don't think that adding > more values to that is appropriate. Any new value would go on the way > that is no longer open. These are generally verifiable on the ground, > even for filters that were added in the 1970s. > > Unfortunately, I don't have a great name. "traffic_restrictions" is > taken as is "traffic_control". My best suggestion is > "traffic_intervention=modal_filter"/"school_street", as they are > essentially interventions by local government to better manage the > street space. > > Any thoughts? > Stephen > > * a "modal filter" is a place where the road is closed, or made one > way for the purposes of controlling traffic, such as to stop rat > running. It is commonly linked to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) > but they have been around for 50 years, and are generally easy to > spot. > > ** a "school street" is a street that is only accessible by residents > at school drop-off and pick-up time ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging modal filters and school streets
I don't think it can be a barrier value because we need to record what kind of barrier it is, such as gate, swing gate or bollard (or planter which is undocumented but in use) Two of the modal_filter are mine, and some people are objecting in comments. I do think modal_filter=yes is too narrow, as I'd really like to cover school streets. I don't think it can be traffic_restriction because a road could be "no stopping" and a school Street for example. Stephen On Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 19:16 Dan S, wrote: > Hi > > That could be a good idea. > > How about barrier=modal_filter? Using barrier=* we might expect it to > be on the barrier itself (e.g. a row of bollards/planters), perhaps > less appropriate if a whole street area with camera-based enforcement. > But, after all, they're all intended as a barrier to some forms of > traffic. > > In what sense is traffic_restriction "taken"? I see there are plenty > of "traffic_restriction=no_stopping" tagged. Could this sit alongside? > > BTW, according to taginfo, in the UK there are 4 "modal_filter=yes" > and various notes/descriptions mentioning "modal" that could be a good > way to find examples: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=modal#keys > > > Best > Dan > > Op ma 21 sep. 2020 om 18:21 schreef Stephen Colebourne < > scolebou...@joda.org>: > > > > Given we have hundreds of existing and new modal filters* and school > > streets**, I think we could do with having a *high level* tag for them > > that captures the concept. > > > > Currently, these are hard to find as they can be represented in many > > ways. eg. for modal filters: > > - highway=cycleway > > - highwat=footway > > - highway=service/residential with motor_vehicle=no > > - plus potential associated barrier=xxx > > > > School streets are no more than a motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (xxx) > > which again loses the semantic meaning. > > > > What I'd like is a new tag that captures the high level concept. It > > would be a bit like traffic_calming, but I don't think that adding > > more values to that is appropriate. Any new value would go on the way > > that is no longer open. These are generally verifiable on the ground, > > even for filters that were added in the 1970s. > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have a great name. "traffic_restrictions" is > > taken as is "traffic_control". My best suggestion is > > "traffic_intervention=modal_filter"/"school_street", as they are > > essentially interventions by local government to better manage the > > street space. > > > > Any thoughts? > > Stephen > > > > * a "modal filter" is a place where the road is closed, or made one > > way for the purposes of controlling traffic, such as to stop rat > > running. It is commonly linked to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) > > but they have been around for 50 years, and are generally easy to > > spot. > > > > ** a "school street" is a street that is only accessible by residents > > at school drop-off and pick-up time > > > > ___ > > Talk-GB mailing list > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging modal filters and school streets
Hi That could be a good idea. How about barrier=modal_filter? Using barrier=* we might expect it to be on the barrier itself (e.g. a row of bollards/planters), perhaps less appropriate if a whole street area with camera-based enforcement. But, after all, they're all intended as a barrier to some forms of traffic. In what sense is traffic_restriction "taken"? I see there are plenty of "traffic_restriction=no_stopping" tagged. Could this sit alongside? BTW, according to taginfo, in the UK there are 4 "modal_filter=yes" and various notes/descriptions mentioning "modal" that could be a good way to find examples: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=modal#keys Best Dan Op ma 21 sep. 2020 om 18:21 schreef Stephen Colebourne : > > Given we have hundreds of existing and new modal filters* and school > streets**, I think we could do with having a *high level* tag for them > that captures the concept. > > Currently, these are hard to find as they can be represented in many > ways. eg. for modal filters: > - highway=cycleway > - highwat=footway > - highway=service/residential with motor_vehicle=no > - plus potential associated barrier=xxx > > School streets are no more than a motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (xxx) > which again loses the semantic meaning. > > What I'd like is a new tag that captures the high level concept. It > would be a bit like traffic_calming, but I don't think that adding > more values to that is appropriate. Any new value would go on the way > that is no longer open. These are generally verifiable on the ground, > even for filters that were added in the 1970s. > > Unfortunately, I don't have a great name. "traffic_restrictions" is > taken as is "traffic_control". My best suggestion is > "traffic_intervention=modal_filter"/"school_street", as they are > essentially interventions by local government to better manage the > street space. > > Any thoughts? > Stephen > > * a "modal filter" is a place where the road is closed, or made one > way for the purposes of controlling traffic, such as to stop rat > running. It is commonly linked to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) > but they have been around for 50 years, and are generally easy to > spot. > > ** a "school street" is a street that is only accessible by residents > at school drop-off and pick-up time > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Tagging modal filters and school streets
Given we have hundreds of existing and new modal filters* and school streets**, I think we could do with having a *high level* tag for them that captures the concept. Currently, these are hard to find as they can be represented in many ways. eg. for modal filters: - highway=cycleway - highwat=footway - highway=service/residential with motor_vehicle=no - plus potential associated barrier=xxx School streets are no more than a motor_vehicle:conditional=no @ (xxx) which again loses the semantic meaning. What I'd like is a new tag that captures the high level concept. It would be a bit like traffic_calming, but I don't think that adding more values to that is appropriate. Any new value would go on the way that is no longer open. These are generally verifiable on the ground, even for filters that were added in the 1970s. Unfortunately, I don't have a great name. "traffic_restrictions" is taken as is "traffic_control". My best suggestion is "traffic_intervention=modal_filter"/"school_street", as they are essentially interventions by local government to better manage the street space. Any thoughts? Stephen * a "modal filter" is a place where the road is closed, or made one way for the purposes of controlling traffic, such as to stop rat running. It is commonly linked to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) but they have been around for 50 years, and are generally easy to spot. ** a "school street" is a street that is only accessible by residents at school drop-off and pick-up time ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
