Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 15/11/17 13:18, Adam Snape wrote:
Interesting, but if your interpretation of the law regarding red/green 
distinctions is correct, why do the majority of road road atlases on 
sale and most maps (both open and proprietary) supplied by Ordnance 
Survey maintain the red/green colouring?


OS certainly have thought about colour blindness, e.g. 
, 
and .  My 
guess, though, is that paper maps are not legally a service, unlike web 
sites, so are immune from the legislation.  There probably also haven't 
been test cases.


Incidentally, my father is red/green colour blind and can tell the 
difference between the two shadesused in road atlases. He does however 


Varying the shade as well as the colour, is one way of making maps 
colour blind friendly.  My understanding, though, is that the degree of 
colour blindness varies, even within the predominant type found in UK 
males.  Also colour vision is affected by the yellowing of the eye with 
age, so something that works for one person, may not do so for another.


The Wired article, above, indicates that there were problems with 
non-traditional colours for roads, which were resolved by creating 
lightness/darkness contrasts.



sometimes struggle with the picking out  the green dashed rights of way 
on the OS 1:25K Explorer mapping.


Googling "colour blindness os maps" throws up a lot of potentially 
interesting material on the subject.



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Adam Snape]

Interesting, but if your interpretation of the law regarding red/green
distinctions is correct, why do the majority of road road atlases on sale
and most maps (both open and proprietary) supplied by Ordnance Survey
maintain the red/green colouring?

Incidentally, my father is red/green colour blind and can tell the
difference between the two shadesused in road atlases. He does however
sometimes struggle with the picking out  the green dashed rights of way on
the OS 1:25K Explorer mapping.

Adam

On 15 November 2017 at 11:33, David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 15/11/17 01:53, Gervase Markham wrote:
>
>> Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads?:-)  Or do people
>> not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?
>>
>
> Whilst the OSM map renderings probably fall in a grey area, between public
> services and private hobby, for any map rendering provided as a service to
> the general public, especially in a part of the world with a high
> prevalence of red-green colour blindness, using just a red-green
> distinction would be illegal under anti-discrimination law.
>
> I'm not colour blind, but I rather suspect that most OSM cartographers
> have not considered people with vision defects in their decisions.
>
> The other accessibility issue that is likely to arise is low colour
> contrasts.  Web sites will fail accessibility guidelines, if, when you
> reduce them to black and white with the same luminance components, there is
> insufficient contrast.
>
> The UK philosophy on law is to have laws which say things will be safe,
> accessible, etc., and then use non-legislative standards (building
> regulations approved documents, W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines,
> etc), to try and judge whether the law is being obeyed).  As such, you will
> not find a law that explicitly states you can't rely on just a red-green
> distinction.
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 15/11/2017 12:15, Dave F wrote:


I thought the French rendering showed an aligned zebra crossing, but 
it appears to have been rescinded. Anyone know why?




Correction, it does. Two in fact. The grey zebra (uncontrolled & the man 
crossing a zebra to the left on Corn St.(traffic_signals)


http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19=51.379=-2.36216=B00FF

I think the rotation of the zebra works well.



Cheers
DaveF




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 15/11/2017 11:25, Andy Townsend wrote:

(somewhat belatedly, re crossings)

On 02/11/2017 15:42, Dave F wrote:



Apologies, forgot to permalink. Try:
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=20=51.3779057=-2.35836 



Yes, the way these are shown is a bit rubbish.  I'm assuming that it's 
not possible to render a symbol for a node "parallel to the way that 
it is part of"


I thought the French rendering showed an aligned zebra crossing, but it 
appears to have been rescinded. Anyone know why?



, but any suggestions for a same-size replacement for


Until a more specific icon is agreed, how about a generic dot as used by 
CycleMap? https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.37871/-2.36074=C


Cheers
DaveF

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 15/11/17 01:53, Gervase Markham wrote:

Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads?:-)  Or do people
not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?


Whilst the OSM map renderings probably fall in a grey area, between 
public services and private hobby, for any map rendering provided as a 
service to the general public, especially in a part of the world with a 
high prevalence of red-green colour blindness, using just a red-green 
distinction would be illegal under anti-discrimination law.


I'm not colour blind, but I rather suspect that most OSM cartographers 
have not considered people with vision defects in their decisions.


The other accessibility issue that is likely to arise is low colour 
contrasts.  Web sites will fail accessibility guidelines, if, when you 
reduce them to black and white with the same luminance components, there 
is insufficient contrast.


The UK philosophy on law is to have laws which say things will be safe, 
accessible, etc., and then use non-legislative standards (building 
regulations approved documents, W3C's Web Content Accessibility 
Guidelines, etc), to try and judge whether the law is being obeyed).  As 
such, you will not find a law that explicitly states you can't rely on 
just a red-green distinction.


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

(somewhat belatedly, re crossings)

On 02/11/2017 15:42, Dave F wrote:



Apologies, forgot to permalink. Try:
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=20=51.3779057=-2.35836 



Yes, the way these are shown is a bit rubbish.  I'm assuming that it's 
not possible to render a symbol for a node "parallel to the way that it 
is part of", but any suggestions for a same-size replacement for 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/blob/master/symbols/highway_crossing.png 
and optionally 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/blob/master/symbols/highway_crossing2.png 
would definitely be considered.  See also 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/openstreetmap-carto-AJT/commit/2077839ba0f51a565991cad7be2697896d0737d2 
.


Best Regards,
Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

On 15/11/2017 07:48, Adam Snape wrote:
Most map users don't understand the distinction between primary 
(green) and non-primary (red) A-roads so I understand why not all maps 
use it. Since OSM makes this distinction anyway it makes sense to use 
the standard uk green/red colour scheme in the UK map.


I believe that http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/ still has red trunk 
roads with a slightly enhanced border.  I made that change because it 
was difficult to see trunk roads in woodland etc.  See 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=-24.99256=135.02047 
for a map legend.


One change that I believe that Nick has made is to change bridleways 
from blue (see 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99289=135.08475 
and 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=51.06398=-0.88857 
) to red see the top of http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/ .


Best Regards,
Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Lester Caine]

On 15/11/17 07:48, Adam Snape wrote:
> Most map users don't understand the distinction between primary (green)
> and non-primary (red) A-roads so I understand why not all maps use it.
> Since OSM makes this distinction anyway it makes sense to use the
> standard uk green/red colour scheme in the UK map.

I keep looking at OSMAND and thinking ... I must look at what is needed
for a UK road theme there we have American and German! Vector display
really is the way forward then one can select the right default for any
area.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Adam Snape]

Most map users don't understand the distinction between primary (green) and
non-primary (red) A-roads so I understand why not all maps use it. Since
OSM makes this distinction anyway it makes sense to use the standard uk
green/red colour scheme in the UK map.

Adam

On 15 Nov 2017 1:54 a.m., "Gervase Markham"  wrote:

> On 30/10/17 01:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> > Would also be good to see a few suggestions for features.
>
> Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads? :-) Or do people
> not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?
>
> Gerv
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Gervase Markham]

On 30/10/17 01:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Would also be good to see a few suggestions for features. 

Can we please have blue motorways and green A-roads? :-) Or do people
not like green A-roads because so many other things are green?

Gerv



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/02/17 14:21, Dave F wrote:



On 02/11/2017 13:25, Andy Townsend wrote:



On 11/02/17 13:02, Dave F wrote:


It's great pedestrian crossings are rendered, but the icon gets 
swallowed by the road way.


I'd probably need to see an example of that - any chance of a 
permalink?  It's supposed to render on top (albeit small), but it may 
be I've missed something and there's a situation in which they get 
missed.


They are there, just quite feint.
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=51.344207=-2.344501 





What's the OSM object ID of one of them?  At first glance I can't see any...


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[Paul Berry]

Michael,

Yes, I stand corrected: the tracks have been lifted here but everything
else is very visible.

The old (< 2015) rendering of the Standard Layer (which was until recently
available on http://tile.openstreetmap.fr and perhaps still is elsewhere)
did show this feature.

Andy,

I'm loath to map in such a way as to favour the Standard Layer (or any
layer, view, etc) as that's against good practice (though it does happen),
and we're not in control of what the layers show anyway. But point taken :)

Regards,
*Paul*

On 2 November 2017 at 14:00, Michael Booth  wrote:

> Assuming you are talking about this way: https://www.openstreetmap.org/
> way/201674137
>
> Nothing to do with disused=yes - it's not rendered because it's marked as
> railway=abandoned, which is the correct way to tag a former railway line
> where the tracks have been lifted but the route is still visible (which I
> presume is the case here).
>
> Though I do agree that bridge=* and railway=abandoned would be useful to
> have rendered.
>
>
> On 02/11/2017 13:43, Paul Berry wrote:
>
> Thirded.
>
> Examples abound but an egregious one, in this context, is the south side
> of Leeds City Centre where you have the Holbeck Viaduct with its 92 brick
> arches 3 stories high marching across the urban landscape. An extremely
> visible structure in reality but rendered invisible on all the main layers
> simply due to *disused=yes*.
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On 2 November 2017 at 13:37, Philip Barnes  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 2 November 2017 13:23:53 GMT+00:00, ael 
>> wrote:
>> >On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the
>> >rendering
>> >> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,
>> >
>> >But please render existing bridges: these are quite common in Cornwall
>> >and are highly significant particulary where they cross roads.
>> >Just because the railway is dismantled or abandoned does not mean the
>> >bridges have magically evaporated.
>> >
>> +1
>>
>> The embankments, cuttings and trackbed have not evaporated either. Their
>> presence on the map is useful for rural navigation (ROW still climb disused
>> embankments and cutting), and they are potential routes for ROW improvement
>> projects which start by staring at a map so let's make OSM useful for this
>> purpose.
>>
>> With 2026 looming we need to avoid hiding useful countryside information.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing 
> listTalk-GB@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 02/11/2017 13:25, Andy Townsend wrote:



On 11/02/17 13:02, Dave F wrote:


It's great pedestrian crossings are rendered, but the icon gets 
swallowed by the road way.


I'd probably need to see an example of that - any chance of a 
permalink?  It's supposed to render on top (albeit small), but it may 
be I've missed something and there's a situation in which they get 
missed.


They are there, just quite feint.
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=51.344207=-2.344501

DaveF

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[Michael Booth]

Assuming you are talking about this way: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/201674137


Nothing to do with disused=yes - it's not rendered because it's marked 
as railway=abandoned, which is the correct way to tag a former railway 
line where the tracks have been lifted but the route is still visible 
(which I presume is the case here).


Though I do agree that bridge=* and railway=abandoned would be useful to 
have rendered.


On 02/11/2017 13:43, Paul Berry wrote:

Thirded.

Examples abound but an egregious one, in this context, is the south 
side of Leeds City Centre where you have the Holbeck Viaduct with its 
92 brick arches 3 stories high marching across the urban landscape. An 
extremely visible structure in reality but rendered invisible on all 
the main layers simply due to *disused=yes*.


Regards,
/Paul/

On 2 November 2017 at 13:37, Philip Barnes > wrote:




On 2 November 2017 13:23:53 GMT+00:00, ael
> wrote:
>On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
>> >
>> > o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the
>rendering
>> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,
>
>But please render existing bridges: these are quite common in
Cornwall
>and are highly significant particulary where they cross roads.
>Just because the railway is dismantled or abandoned does not mean the
>bridges have magically evaporated.
>
+1

The embankments, cuttings and trackbed have not evaporated either.
Their presence on the map is useful for rural navigation (ROW
still climb disused embankments and cutting), and they are
potential routes for ROW improvement projects which start by
staring at a map so let's make OSM useful for this purpose.

With 2026 looming we need to avoid hiding useful countryside
information.

Phil (trigpoint)

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/02/17 13:43, Paul Berry wrote:


Thirded.

Examples abound but an egregious one, in this context, is the south 
side of Leeds City Centre where you have the Holbeck Viaduct with its 
92 brick arches 3 stories high marching across the urban landscape. An 
extremely visible structure in reality but rendered invisible on all 
the main layers simply due to *disused=yes*.


If it's what I'm thinking about at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=53.78962=-1.55777 
, wouldn't man_made=bridge (closed way around the bridge structure) make 
sense?  It might look a bit odd, but at least you'd see something in the 
"standard" style.


Best Regards,

Andy

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[Paul Berry]

Thirded.

Examples abound but an egregious one, in this context, is the south side of
Leeds City Centre where you have the Holbeck Viaduct with its 92 brick
arches 3 stories high marching across the urban landscape. An extremely
visible structure in reality but rendered invisible on all the main layers
simply due to *disused=yes*.

Regards,
*Paul*

On 2 November 2017 at 13:37, Philip Barnes  wrote:

>
>
> On 2 November 2017 13:23:53 GMT+00:00, ael 
> wrote:
> >On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
> >> >
> >> > o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the
> >rendering
> >> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,
> >
> >But please render existing bridges: these are quite common in Cornwall
> >and are highly significant particulary where they cross roads.
> >Just because the railway is dismantled or abandoned does not mean the
> >bridges have magically evaporated.
> >
> +1
>
> The embankments, cuttings and trackbed have not evaporated either. Their
> presence on the map is useful for rural navigation (ROW still climb disused
> embankments and cutting), and they are potential routes for ROW improvement
> projects which start by staring at a map so let's make OSM useful for this
> purpose.
>
> With 2026 looming we need to avoid hiding useful countryside information.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[Philip Barnes]

On 2 November 2017 13:23:53 GMT+00:00, ael  wrote:
>On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
>> > 
>> > o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the
>rendering
>> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,
>
>But please render existing bridges: these are quite common in Cornwall
>and are highly significant particulary where they cross roads.
>Just because the railway is dismantled or abandoned does not mean the
>bridges have magically evaporated.
>
+1

The embankments, cuttings and trackbed have not evaporated either. Their 
presence on the map is useful for rural navigation (ROW still climb disused 
embankments and cutting), and they are potential routes for ROW improvement 
projects which start by staring at a map so let's make OSM useful for this 
purpose. 

With 2026 looming we need to avoid hiding useful countryside information. 

Phil (trigpoint) 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map railway bridges

[ael]

On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,
> 
> I agree with removing all of the above, except where they're co-tagged with
> objects which still exist ie disused bridges:
> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=51.344207=-2.344501

Oops. Sorry. I didn't scroll down far enough to notice that the point
was already made!

ael


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/02/17 13:02, Dave F wrote:


It's great pedestrian crossings are rendered, but the icon gets 
swallowed by the road way.


I'd probably need to see an example of that - any chance of a 
permalink?  It's supposed to render on top (albeit small), but it may be 
I've missed something and there's a situation in which they get missed.



Could the text size in the legend be increased?
That's tricky.  The legend isn't "special", it's just a map, so the text 
size for names is exactly what would appear on the main map. The icon 
spacing in the POI section of the legend is chosen so that they're not 
too far away from each other at high zoom levels, and sometimes you have 
to zoom in so that text isn't obscured.  The text size above each POI 
could be changed, but any bigger and lots of text wouldn't appear 
because of label clashes.  I've tried various sizes and what's currently 
there is a compromise between readability and label clashes.




A link to the main site at the same location so the notes & queries 
features (right hand side) can be easily accessed.


That's probably doable, but it'd probably have to wait until someone 
gets a "round tuit" to write the relevant Javascript.  Notes (and 
fixmes) should be doable in Leaflet as an extra layer (but that's 
another round tuit), and a search option also makes sense here too. I 
probably wouldn't want to link to (say) .../relation/50288 because 
displaying the location information of that on mobile will likely 
overwhelm some mobile browsers, but a page of tags (and a location for 
POIs) would be nice.


Best Regards,
Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map: abandoned railways may still have bridges.

[ael]

On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 01:02:13PM +, Dave F wrote:
> > 
> > o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the rendering
> > of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones,

But please render existing bridges: these are quite common in Cornwall
and are highly significant particulary where they cross roads.
Just because the railway is dismantled or abandoned does not mean the
bridges have magically evaporated.

ael


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 30/10/2017 17:34, Andy Townsend wrote:

On 30/10/2017 08:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:




As you may know, the plan is to produce a UK specific OSM mapping 
site. A start on this has been made here:



http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/


using a fork of SomeoneElse (Andy)'s cartography with one very minor 
tweak so far, namely footpaths and bridleways are rendered in a style 
similar to Landranger maps.




Glad to be of service :)

There are a couple of other tweaks you'd probably want to do:

o One is to reinstate cycleways as "a thing".

+1


o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the 
rendering of dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones, 


I agree with removing all of the above, except where they're co-tagged 
with objects which still exist ie disused bridges:

https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=51.344207=-2.344501

but I'd suggest keeping proposed ones so that people can see where HS2 
is going(!) (as an example, 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419=-1.31171 
shows all three types).


Personally I don't add proposed items & they seem to rarely come to 
fruition & often fail to be removed.


Other items:

It's great pedestrian crossings are rendered, but the icon gets 
swallowed by the road way.


Could the text size in the legend be increased?

A link to the main site at the same location so the notes & queries 
features (right hand side) can be easily accessed.


DaveF




o If you want to do "Welsh Language first in Wales" as described in 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/42069 I can make 
the load scripts available for that.  It's pretty much what's in the 
diary entry but is a runnable script.


In terms of server space, we did have a server available to us for 
development purposes (provided by Birmingham in Real Time) however 
this will be unavailable for a month or two; however our contact 
there is going to recommend some cheap hosting options.




For info, the map.atownsend.org.uk site (which covers the UK and 
Ireland) currently fits nicely on a 4Gb memory / 100Gb SSD disk server 
at Hetzner; at <£15 per month you could probably short-term fund it 
with a whip-round in a pub.  I'm sure that the other competing options 
- OVH et al - are similar; for the size of server I wanted for the UK 
Hetzner made sense for me at the beginning of the year; slightly 
larger or smaller on any spec parameter and something else might have 
been better.


Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/02/17 10:32, David Woolley wrote:

On 31/10/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:
2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “/permissive paths need 
showing/


I hope this means distinguishing from public ones, rather than that 
they are currently not rendered!




They'll currently appear like the top "undesignated" row at:

http://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99242=135.08868

(that legend's at 
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style-legend BTW - it's 
just some data pretending to be in the middle of Australia).


I'd encourage anyone who wants to see how things look to just have a go 
with changing the rendering (colours, dashes instead of dots or 
whatever) and seeing what works and what doesn't.   Nick's changed the 
rendering of bridleways in the OSM UK rendering to be closer to the OS's 
dashed rendering, but obviously that has knock-on effects elsewhere, and 
it's often easier to show a screenshot of the effect of a change rather 
than try to describe it.


Best Regards,

Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 31/10/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:

2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “/permissive paths need showing/


I hope this means distinguishing from public ones, rather than that they 
are currently not rendered!


Almost every path in a council or Royal park is a permissive path, even 
if very few of them are correctly tagged as such.



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Nick Whitelegg]

>2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; 
>Andy's >cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have 
>experience with.”  >Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a 
>permissive footpath >and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map 
>>(https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419;>lon=-1.31171<https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419>on=-1.31171>):
> the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the >bridleway is shown 
>as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as >permissive paths 
>are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse >riders a tremendous 
>service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW >route would 
>have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, >which we 
>can enjoy so much now.


By this I mean permissive paths are shown (Andy, correct me if I'm wrong) with 
the default black dashed lines rather than their own colour scheme, e.g


https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=50.97926=-0.9845


If you look at Butser Hill (the area round the 270m summit) there are various 
paths rendered in black dashed lines; all these are tagged as permissive.



Nick


From: Bob Hawkins <bobhawk...@waitrose.com>
Sent: 31 October 2017 19:04:55
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

I wish to add my own pennies’ worth from a walker’s and mapper’s perspective on 
three matters:
1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but 
are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers 
stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, 
kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for 
this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish 
more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, 
even, so that they are more visible.
2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's 
cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience 
with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive 
footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map 
(https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419=-1.31171):
 the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as 
others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are 
concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous 
service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have 
to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy 
so much now.
3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have 
commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like 
the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such 
roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in 
the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could 
achieve?

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
  Virus-free. 
www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map - signed walking routes

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/02/17 03:31, Andrew Black wrote:


 My request. Signed walking routes such as
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6084014



There's logic in the style that has been forked to handle those:

https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=17=51.424012=-0.06819

There's obviously a discussion to be had about which ones and at what 
zoom level, but the capability is there.


Can i ask about context. Are we talking abou a layer or a website that 
could potentially have optional overlays. If the latter could routes 
be such an overlay. I appreciate they ate not everyones taste.


That's something that I'd thought about (entirely separately to this 
project).  The tricky bit with overlays is that you won't get any 
collision avoidance between layers, and as route names tend to be quite 
long that's likely to be an issue.  You might be able to get away with a 
large enough "halo" around the route text - the best way to find out is 
to try it and see.


Best Regards,

Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] The OSM UK map - signed walking routes

[Andrew Black]

My request. Signed walking routes such as
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6084014

Can i ask about context. Are we talking abou a layer or a website that
could potentially have optional overlays. If the latter could routes be
such an overlay. I appreciate they ate not everyones taste.


>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Bob Hawkins]

I wish to add my own pennies’ worth from a walker’s and mapper’s perspective on 
three matters:
1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but 
are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers 
stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, 
kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for 
this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish 
more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, 
even, so that they are more visible.
2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's 
cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience 
with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive 
footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map 
(https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419=-1.31171):
 the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as 
others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are 
concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous 
service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have 
to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy 
so much now.
3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have 
commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like 
the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such 
roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in 
the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could 
achieve?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Nick Whitelegg]

Thanks for all the suggestions, and Andy - thanks for the hosting info.


To answer the questions that came up:


- contours should be easy, yes as I already have a DB containing them. It's 
just a case of using them with the current version of Mapnik; I've added 
contours with Mapnik before but a good number of years ago now.


- The carto style is indeed a fork of the original OSM carto style, forked by 
Andy some time ago (I believe before the road colour scheme was altered); it's 
now been further forked for the OSM UK project.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com>
Sent: 30 October 2017 17:34:11
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

On 30/10/2017 08:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:



As you may know, the plan is to produce a UK specific OSM mapping site. A start 
on this has been made here:


http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/


using a fork of SomeoneElse (Andy)'s cartography with one very minor tweak so 
far, namely footpaths and bridleways are rendered in a style similar to 
Landranger maps.

Glad to be of service :)

There are a couple of other tweaks you'd probably want to do:

o One is to reinstate cycleways as "a thing".  In order to free up a colour to 
use for public bridleways I used blue for that and just rendered cycleways like 
other paths (coloured according to designation, dashed for wide and dotted for 
narrow).  Green's a problem because so much on an OSM map is different shades 
of grreen.  That's fine for me (I'm not a cyclist) but something a bit more 
inclusive would probably include cycleways.  Not sure what colour you'd want to 
go for though - if you want to go more for OS-style colours you'd have a lot 
less colour on the map than most OSM-based ones (styles designed as an 
"underlay" like Mapbox Streets aside).

o Another is railways - I'm guessing you'd want to remove the rendering of 
dismantled railways, and also possibly abandoned ones, but I'd suggest keeping 
proposed ones so that people can see where HS2 is going(!) (as an example, 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15=53.11419=-1.31171
 shows all three types).

o If you want to do "Welsh Language first in Wales" as described in 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/42069 I can make the load 
scripts available for that.  It's pretty much what's in the diary entry but is 
a runnable script.


In terms of server space, we did have a server available to us for development 
purposes (provided by Birmingham in Real Time) however this will be unavailable 
for a month or two; however our contact there is going to recommend some cheap 
hosting options.

For info, the map.atownsend.org.uk site (which covers the UK and Ireland) 
currently fits nicely on a 4Gb memory / 100Gb SSD disk server at Hetzner; at 
<£15 per month you could probably short-term fund it with a whip-round in a 
pub.  I'm sure that the other competing options - OVH et al - are similar; for 
the size of server I wanted for the UK Hetzner made sense for me at the 
beginning of the year; slightly larger or smaller on any spec parameter and 
something else might have been better.

Best Regards,

Andy


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Dave F]

On 30/10/2017 08:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:



Would also be good to see a few suggestions for features. A few of 
mine; on the cartography side:


- add contours (I have done this on Freemap so I should be able to 
figure out this)


- hill shading (not had any experience of this though I know it has 
been done)


- Landranger-style rendering? Any other preferences?

- permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do 
this but again this is something I have experience with.




Additional layers would be useful, but can they all be selectable 
please. Many implementations of hill shading I've come across have meant 
panning slows to a sludge.




On the features side (walking oriented most of mine):


- click on POIs to get information about them, e.g. links to Wikipedia 
articles and websites, real ale status for pubs, opening times, values 
of the "description" tag, etc




Good idea. It would need to be 'prettified'. Some popups like this are 
direct transfers of XML data. The end user probably isn't interested if 
what they click on is a node, way or relation or 'key's & 'values'.



- ability to re-tag footpaths (e.g. add PROW ref, description tag) by 
clicking on them (users can already authenticate with OSM via OAuth)




Useful for those who wish to do that (I include myself - it's my 'next 
thing to do'), but are you wanting to design an editor or map to be used 
by people who've probably never heard of OSM. They are two separate 
items, I believe.



- link with Mapillary to show photos along a given route?



A nicety, but I've found mapillary to be sluggish.

--
I like the 'landranger' paths. Are all path barriers rendered? I know in 
osm-carto discussions about individual icons has stopped their addition. 
Could a 'cover-all' dot, or similar, be used as a stop-gap?


Could 'fields' be reduced in intensity? I found they obscure more 
detailed objects.

And could 'white' roads be increased? Maybe a darker edge?

I haven't read through git hub yet (& doubt I understand much), does it 
use a fork of osm-carto's code (the 'standard' map)?



Cheers
DaveF


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 30/10/17 12:05, Lester Caine wrote:

Yep ... fixmystreet is not working with the right authorities and is a
pain to find the right location anyway. Looking to overlay the website
location map with the sort of facilities a parish council looks after.



I'm not aware that any of the council alternatives use any more council 
specific mapping, although I know that some councils do have online 
mapping of land maintained at public expense (which I don't think they 
use for their fly tip reporting systems).  (One of the problems with fly 
tip reporting is that the general public doesn't understand that 
councils are not responsible for clearing back alleys and the parts of 
the pavement that are really unfenced private forecourts of shops.  Not 
that you can expect these to be mapped well on OSM, as I've come across 
people who won't allow private alley's to be marked private unless 
explicitly signed or gated.)


(Note "maintained at public expense" is not the same as access=yes.)

FMS does direct reports, according to the category, to the relevant 
level of council (or sometimes both).  That does depend on people 
getting the right category, which they often don't do, but that is a 
consequence of the relatively free format input.


I think one of the other issues that councils have with FMS is the libel 
one, and evidence being tainted by being published.  My council use 
lovecleanstreets but don't allow any of the reports to be public.  They 
definitely make it clear that they don't want evidence in the public 
domain, as it can make prosecutions difficult (e.g. finding independent 
witnesses), and I think they are also concerned about people accusing 
identifiable people of crime, or stereotyping communities.


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Lester Caine]

On 30/10/17 11:32, David Woolley wrote:
> On 30/10/17 10:37, Lester Caine wrote:
>>   What
>> I'm looking at here is reports of fly tipping, dog mess, and so on;)
> 
> 
> 
> However, note that some councils are insisting that only their own web
> site be used to report problems, and no longer accept email (unless
> there is a partnership with FMS, email is how the reports are presented
> - one of the reasons is that councils want very structured reports, but
> FMS is designed for free format reports).

Yep ... fixmystreet is not working with the right authorities and is a
pain to find the right location anyway. Looking to overlay the website
location map with the sort of facilities a parish council looks after.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[David Woolley]

On 30/10/17 10:37, Lester Caine wrote:

  What
I'm looking at here is reports of fly tipping, dog mess, and so on;)





However, note that some councils are insisting that only their own web 
site be used to report problems, and no longer accept email (unless 
there is a partnership with FMS, email is how the reports are presented 
- one of the reasons is that councils want very structured reports, but 
FMS is designed for free format reports).


My own council uses Veolia.  If you report through FMS, it gets emailed 
to the council contact centre, and you get the initial response in 
around five days, by which time the report is usually stale.  If you use 
the official site (which is a re-branded lovecleanstreets, and uses Bing 
mapping, it goes direct to Veolia, and you get a next day, or better 
response, through to the actual removal of the tip.


(Although FMS don't default to OSM, in the UK, OSM is their preferred 
global map provider.  I assume they think that the OS maps have more 
even coverage in the UK.)


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Lester Caine]

On 30/10/17 08:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> As you may know, the plan is to produce a UK specific OSM mapping site.
> A start on this has been made here:
> 
> http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/
> The test site covers Hampshire only due to server constraints.
It would perhaps be useful to have a 'cloud' of servers which can
provide high resolution layers around the country with a secondary
facility for specialist layers.

> - website_real - the coding behind the website (JavaScript; plan is to
> use PHP server side)
That is where I am currently 'stuck' ;) I'm looking to provide secondary
layers specific to my client websites and all of that code is in PHP
with Javascript browser side.

> Would also be good to see a few suggestions for features. A few of mine;
> on the cartography side:
> - add contours (I have done this on Freemap so I should be able to
> figure out this)
A secondary layer of contours should just be an implementation exercise?
The info is already available ...

> - Landranger-style rendering? Any other preferences?
One of the problems I've been fighting is the 'standard' UK road
colours. Need the green truck roads back as this helps identify who is
responsible for maintenance. ( or at least it used to ;) )

> - permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this
> but again this is something I have experience with.
Providing UK councils with a generic tool with cross boarder display of
right of way may help bring them on board.

> On the features side (walking oriented most of mine):
> - click on POIs to get information about them, e.g. links to Wikipedia
> articles and websites, real ale status for pubs, opening times, values
> of the "description" tag, etc
With secondary data like the edubase and now fhrs which can be accessed
easily and SHOULD be up to date. Wikipedia/wikidata should perhaps be a
secondary source if a primary source is available.

> - click on footpaths to get information about them e.g. if a particular
> footpath has nice views described in the 'description' tag, this should
> be shown
> - ability to re-tag footpaths (e.g. add PROW ref, description tag) by
> clicking on them (users can already authenticate with OSM via OAuth)
Turning that around ... encouraging smaller council sources to make OSM
their primary tool and feed the results back to other data?

> - link with Mapillary to show photos along a given route?
Looking to secondary sources ... if the browser side tools can allow a
links layer accessing private data, one can add your own pictures. What
I'm looking at here is reports of fly tipping, dog mess, and so on ;)

> In terms of server space, we did have a server available to us for
> development purposes (provided by Birmingham in Real Time) however this
> will be unavailable for a month or two; however our contact there is
> going to recommend some cheap hosting options.
I've space and bandwidth which WAS running a UK mirror, but the software
had not been updated in some years and OSRM was no longer working, so I
need to reinstate that. I will have a look at the github setup ... I'm
only looking to mirror the UK but include Ireland in that until the
great wall of brexit appears ;)

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] The OSM UK map

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,


Much of this is being discussed in Loomio but was having a discussion over the 
weekend with a fellow mapper and we thought that it might be valuable to 
mention it on the mailing list too.


As you may know, the plan is to produce a UK specific OSM mapping site. A start 
on this has been made here:


http://www.free-map.org.uk/osmuk/


using a fork of SomeoneElse (Andy)'s cartography with one very minor tweak so 
far, namely footpaths and bridleways are rendered in a style similar to 
Landranger maps. The test site covers Hampshire only due to server constraints.


Github repositories are at

https://github.com/osmuk/


specifically:


- website_real - the coding behind the website (JavaScript; plan is to use PHP 
server side)

- openstreetmap-carto-AJT - Andy's fork of the OSM map style, further forked

- SomeoneElse-style - Lua script to transform tags, plus supporting shell 
script to download OSM data from geofabrik and populate the database.


Would be great to see people contribute to this, particularly cartography and 
UI experts, but also on the coding, as I have limited time and can spend a 
little, but not _huge_ amounts of time on this.


Would also be good to see a few suggestions for features. A few of mine; on the 
cartography side:

- add contours (I have done this on Freemap so I should be able to figure out 
this)

- hill shading (not had any experience of this though I know it has been done)

- Landranger-style rendering? Any other preferences?

- permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this but 
again this is something I have experience with.


On the features side (walking oriented most of mine):


- click on POIs to get information about them, e.g. links to Wikipedia articles 
and websites, real ale status for pubs, opening times, values of the 
"description" tag, etc

- click on footpaths to get information about them e.g. if a particular 
footpath has nice views described in the 'description' tag, this should be shown

- ability to re-tag footpaths (e.g. add PROW ref, description tag) by clicking 
on them (users can already authenticate with OSM via OAuth)

- link with Mapillary to show photos along a given route?

- would things like user-defined walking routes be getting too 
walking-specific? Who should we be aiming this site at? Outdoor users (in which 
case, such things would be valuable) or general UK users?

- any others?


Main thing is to get an idea of who we are aiming this site at, as the 
features, and indeed the rendering, will depend on this.


In terms of server space, we did have a server available to us for development 
purposes (provided by Birmingham in Real Time) however this will be unavailable 
for a month or two; however our contact there is going to recommend some cheap 
hosting options.


Nick






___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb