Re: [Tango-L] Would you like to lead or follow?
Wow, this is confusing!..I dance tango in order to feel like a man... Hmm, maybe that's the problem. It could be just me, but in order to feel like a man, I just have to be awake/conscious. While not all women who lead are good dancers, nearly ALL great women dancers I ever danced with know how to lead. On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonight, I asked a woman to dance. She replied, Would you like to lead or follow? I was startled. I answered Do I look like a follow?..Hello-o-o. I had lapsed into Valley girl speak when what I should have done was my impersonation of Christopher Walken. So, Ok, I got it together and did my best Chris Wow, this is confusing!..I dance tango in order to feel like a man...and what do I get?...unisex? What's this.. no more man, woman? Is that it? ...she replied again, No, I just wanted to know if you wanted to lead or follow? I could have milked the scene, it was rich material so, I did a couple more lines in my best Christopher Walken voice (whenever I feel vulnerable, I go to Chris) and then we danced. It's the man who approaches the woman. It takes a bit of nerve to feel like you can pull it off with her...it's not easy. There should be some respect..I don't get any respect. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l -- Sorin my photography site: http://www.bostonphotographs.com my milonga review site: http://www.milongareview.com blog: http://sorinsblog.blogspot.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] How do yoou know it is tango
Somebody sent a private E-mail with the following message: (re. to my prior note) How do you know they are dancing tango. I wonder how good any of them can lead in a social setting anyone else. I don't find their dancing that elegant anyway... it's not that tango actually. :) My answer: You are entitled to have your own taste and opinion. You do not like the way they dance, that is fine, your own particular taste. I do not have any problem with that. I am sure that there are other people that share your impressions and feelings the same as there are many that really like the way they dance as well. I agree with you : You can learn a choreography and perform on stage without knowing how to lead. I performed on stage in Argentina in a tango show with only one week of training, when I started to dance tango regularly (with Victor and Monica Ayos). It was great! I doubt that this is the case with Miguel and Augusto. I think that tango has many styles, stage tango is one of them. This last form of dancing tango is as much tango as social tango. They are different, they have different purposes; that is all. Out of the multiple tango styles that exist people may select one that they like to cultivate, or what is more frequent, by fate, they were exposed to only one style, and look at any other form of the dance as something estrange, non-tango, an aberration. Tango is a very rich dance, it has many styles: you may adopt one or more of those styles, go to dance were those styles are cultivated and enjoy yourself. Other people may like to do Nuevo or stage or cultivate different styles to use in different circumstances, and this is fine as well. You may decide that you wish to cultivate the form people dance downtown Buenos Aires, grest! Others may want to do Nuevo, Stage, Villa Urquiza, or whatever style they like. I do not see any problem with that. Do you? You should not assume that because someone dances Stage tango he does not know how to lead or how to dance socially. Best regards, Sergio _ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender roles in tango
-Original Message- From: Jack Dylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Gender roles in tango Mel, A fabulous dance by a couple obviously trained in ballet. But I'd be interested to hear just why you think they are dancing 'tango'. Seriously, Jack - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I searched on YouTube and found a good example of two men dancing where the follower, always the same man, is definitely more feminine than the leader, even if perhaps not as feminine as most women: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBmjQfp1glo Notice that I did not use the word 'tango' in my description of the dance. This was intentional. Unlike Segio (who won't tell us where men go to traditional milongas in Buenos Aires dressed in drag), I don't think the performance was tango. I don't see many elements of tango in it, no cruzadas, very few ochos, I think only one or two giros, although there are some nuevo type high sacadas and ganchos (not social tango) and some modern dance moves in it. At most the dance was 10% tango moves. Dancing to Piazzolla (never danced to socially in Buenos Aires) does not make it tango. Piazzolla himself said he did not compose music for dancing. If we acxcept this as tango, then we open the floodgates for calling anything tango. Of course, I think that dam is already broken. Mel ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Dancing socially to Piazzolla
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dancing to Piazzolla (never danced to socially in Buenos Aires) does not make it tango. Piazzolla himself said he did not compose music for dancing. I'm always amused when people make definitive statements on mailing lists. They are nearly invariably incorrect. Especially in cases like this. All we need is one person to report a Piazzolla track played for social dancing in Buenos Aires just the once, and the statement is made absurd. Given the number of Piazzolla pieces being re-used by other tango bands, it seems rather unlikely to me that Piazzolla is never danced to socially in Buenos Aires. Unless perhaps, Mel thinks that Nuevo Tango (You know, that type of music that Piazzolla created) isn't social dancing, which would be taking the common dismissive attitude to Nuevo shown around here to extremes. When exactly did Piazzolla say that he did not compose music for dancing? I'd love to see the actual quote, particularly in context. -- Myk Dowling ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The Argentine Tango society
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Sergio Vandekier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huck, here you have the press release of that event. http://express-press-release.net/41/I%20TANGO%20-%20Argentine%20Tango%20Performance.php The local Argentine Tango Society organized the event in Vermont. The event included the show (I Tango) and then a private party as reported. Tickets for the party $25 dollars were sold at the theater. Once again, the show in the video you originally gave was in Stowe, VT, not Burlington. The party advertised on the I-Tango website and in this press release you now give above was at the same venue as the concert, immediately after the show, which occurred on 12 Oct. The show in the original video was not only in Stowe (35 miles from Burlington), but was also on a different date, to wit, 13 Oct. Since everyone appears to be in black tie, you can bet it cost a lot more than $25. I'm guessing it was a private show given for arts benefactors, who probably underwrote many of the expenses of the tour. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Dancing socially to Piazzolla
Piazzolla was, in fact, hostile to the idea of his music being used for dancing. (We are referring to the more contemporary side of Piazzolla, not the early arrangements he did for Troilo). I have never heard his music played by a DJ in a Bs As milonga. Sometimes smaller orchestras play his music and it is more often than not a disappointing experience for all. Neil ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The real, true, AUTHENTIC Argentine tango
Every few weeks, it seems, a brawl takes place in this and other like forums over what is REAL Argentine tango. You will never see such over what real British tango is, except maybe its name. The Imperial Society of Teachers of Dance about a century ago renamed it International tango to make it more popular. More recently the ISTD and its less offensively named cohorts have also named it Standard and (most recently) DanceSport tango. British tango is what you see on Dancing with the Stars (a spin-off of the Brit series Strictly Come Dancing). And British tango is what you will see in the Olympics when the ISTD and its fellows get ballroom dancing made an official Olympic sport. There is no argument about what is TRUE BritTango because there is a book that defines it in so much detail that you could almost program robots to do it. This situation was the background to the first feature film directed by Baz Luhrman (of Moulin Rouge fame). It was titled Strictly Ballroom and was especially hilarious to anyone who knows the International Ballroom world because it had so little exaggeration. And every few weeks we see people in this and other like forums who seem as if they would be happy to imitate the British model - if only their idea of Argentine tango were declared the only real, true, AUTHENTIC Argentine tango. There are even some Argentine tango teachers who sell collections of tapes and DVDs separated into bronze, silver, and gold levels just as the International world does each of their dances. The tango police most recently have declared that it is only REAL tango if a woman and a man dance it - but only if the man is the leader and the woman the follower. At other times they declare that nuevo tango (whatever the heck that is) is not REAL tango. Some people say only if you dance body-to-body are you doing TRUE Argentine tango. Others deride this as vulgar belly-bumping and inelegant. A milonguero, they say, is some street trash who drives a taxi or works as a janitor or short-order cook - if they even have a job. This view of the milonguero, incidentally, is not an unusual attitude of Argentines of older generations. And, of course, that favorite of clueless journalists looking for a sound bite - tango is SEXY! A vertical expression of a horizontal desire sounds so, so, ARGENTINE! And they haul out the myth that tango was invented in brothels. So what is the real nature of the Argentine tango? Maybe its flexibility, the difficulty of defining it in some hard-and-fast way, is part of the answer. It is like a good outfit which is high-quality but also easily tailored to our own body and needs and abilities - and each of us is the tailor. Which would explain why there are so many angry arguments over tango's true nature. Because each of us creates a version that satisfies our deepest needs, a version that is a reflection of our true selves. Thus anyone else who wants us to change our tango to match their version seems to be attacking us on our deepest levels rather than correcting superficial matters. So maybe those of us who stand back and watch these battles over what is real tango with amusement should be grateful for them instead. Because when they quit tango will have died and been replaced with an embalmed corpse. Larry de Los Angeles Save on Cell Phones. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifqvwj3oEzpaVdLl5Ghg5CMzORkh9lncP9n9DILpNtamQrBI/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] How do yoou know it is tango
Pupi Castello was correct and I think everyone who learns tango discovers this for himself. Which I suspect is why many people enjoy Nuevo. No need to worry about that pesky walk :-) Jack - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Which reminds of what famous milonguero Pupi Costello is supposed to have said - Figures are easy; walking is hard. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Dancing socially to Piazzolla
Myk Dowling wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dancing to Piazzolla (never danced to socially in Buenos Aires) does not make it tango. Piazzolla himself said he did not compose music for dancing. I'm always amused when people make definitive statements on mailing lists. They are nearly invariably incorrect. Especially when generalised to the absurd. There is quite some variability in the music of Piazolla - 1955 Bando and Preparense are nothing like the jazzy or classical music structure pieces that he later composed, some of which are undeniably undanceable; others are obviously *written* to be listened to although some people do seem to like to dance to them (Oblivion is an obvious example that seems to be firmly entrenched in the slow and more daring sets of the wee hours here). And let's not forget that Piazzolla also composed some pieces when he was working for Anibal Troilo -- should these also be deemed not tango by contamination? At what exact date did the tango Gods themselves cast a curse upon the fruits of Piazolla's imagination? Is the soundtrack of Bólidos de acero still tango? Should Troilo also be damned by association? It's obvious that Piazzolla himself did not see himself as *merely* a composer of music for dancing, and it would be patently absurd to claim he did. But if you want to draw conclusions from this, you must clearly learn how to form the negative of some boolean operators correctly to avoid logical fallacies (in this case, illicit conversion, i.e. the invalid inversion of a A- or O-type proposition.) -- Alexis Cousein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Engineer/Solutions Architect SGI/Silicon Graphics -- If I have seen further, it is by standing on reference manuals ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
