[Tango-L] Social Tango
Joe says: I want to say Stop talking about styles and just dance with me. I don't care what it's called, I'm going to find a way to dance with you, and it's going to be good if you don't poison it preconceived ideas. I agree, it does not matter if you wish to use a name for the style you dance, because you are going to find a way to dance with that particular lady. This is fine most people do not know what style they dance. We all do the same, except that most people tend to dance with partners of similar skill level. So they stand or sit for a while to observe the dancers and then decide with whom they wish to dance. The way you dance is determined by many factors. You must adjust to the available space, (lots of lack of it), the music, fast music may require smaller steps and faster rhythm, an slower one will allow longer steps and a slower rhythm. Then the woman determines the closeness of the embrace, (very close, close with light, open), then the way everyone else is dancing in that particular club may have an influence as well; as you start dancing you get the feeling of the lady so that you do not lead anything that she cannot follow and when there is some problem you immediately compensate so that the problem is not evident. It is possible that you lead an Ocho cortado and she does not follow because she is used to doing regular front ochos, no big deal: you continue dancing without ochos cortados. Last year I went dancing to a place where nobody ever crossed, they danced stage style without using the cross at all. It is possible but unlikely that you ask somebody to dance without knowing how she dances and she does not know how to dance: you still can walk in a straight way, never crossing. But it is possible that you like traditional tango and you go to a club where that style is preferred or perhaps to a place where millonguero or nuevo are danced. There (as Carol says) people speak the same dialect and this could be a big advantage. But if you do not know too much about styles, when somebody asks you what style do you dance? you answer Salon which means social , not stage. Salon or social has several subgroups : Milonguero is the most common in Buenos Aires, in some places they dance traditional tango, Canyengue or Nuevo. Joe adds It's the same with tango styles. They have about as much validity as astrological types. Of course, if you convince people that they belong to a certain type they'll probably start fulfilling your expectations of them. The most common reason for dancing a particular style is that, by chance, that was the style that was being taught at the place where someone happened to go. One step earlier to that first visit to a tango instructor : the person saw somebody dancing tango, very frequently a tango on stage, in a movie, in the theater, in Television or some club. So he goes with the expectation of dancing stage tango . A small fraction of them will have the dedication of time and energy to learn. At certain time and after being exposed to different types of tango you may have the chance to select the style you wish to dance. Summary: You do not know what style you dance, no big deal you dance Joe's style. Best regards, Sergio _ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
--- On Tue, 8/5/08, Joe Grohens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, let's say that my way of dancing can be classified according to a named type. What will you base it on? - Instructional pedigree? - Dance features that suggest a family resemblance? - The dance circles I associate with? - My step vocabulary? I'd base it on the energy that you're suggesting from the dance. This is something that I believe women are more sensitive about than men realize, perhaps because so much of our training is about receiving so much information. There's a different feeling that transcends the embrace or vocabulary. I can usually tell within a few seconds of moving what kind of dancer my partner is, not an entire dance. It's not hard to figure out the open-dancer who is trying to dance close, or the milonguero dancer who is trying to dance open. It's often obvious when we first embrace. Every single man has particular combinations or movements that they do out of habit or preference. Doing these same movements over and over trains the body a certain way. So a style develops and a certain energy. That same energy finds its way into other movements, even if it is more milonguero or more nuevo. For some people, it's obvious from the very beginning. IMHO, not recognizing that you have a particular style is like not accepting a part of yourself. Style is not something that is forced upon one, it's is more like something discovered about yourself. I don't think that the men's experience with women work the same way. Generally, women develop a wider range of movement then men. We're asked to do more things than a man may be asked to do. There are those, whoever, who choose to specialize. But we shouldn't confuse dance styles with normal adjustments for creating a mutually satisfying communication. On a practical level, when my partner isn't clear on how he dances and changes things around, it's a bit annoying. I'm trying to get into a comfort zone, and wham, there's this change. Instead of actually dancing, I'm having to think about technique. So consider that the next time a woman asks what style you dance, she might be trying to establish a starting point so that she's not wasting half a tanda on figuring you out. She wants a full tanda to dance, not half a tanda. Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
Tom Stermitz wrote - Many people think boleo is a kick of the leg, when in fact the kick is a decoration of the boleo. The basic boleo is (usually) a spiral at the waist, that results in the supporting leg pivoting and the loose leg floating behind and perhaps wrap before coming around to the front. If you learn the boleo with one specific kick, then you are learning both the decoration and the boleo at the same time. This is less flexible than learning them separately. _ Thanks, Tom. As usual, clear and to the point. Thanks for your comment on boleos. You've cleared up something that has always been a bit fuzzy to me. Maybe now I can learn how to lead front boleos, which I never try anymore because I always screw it up. Of course, I have more experience leading back boleos. They can be done whether the embrace is very close or more distant. With front boleos I have to make some space for the woman to use first, either by letting her pull away from me or by doing a lean. Anyone have pointers on leading/doing front boleos? Larry de Los Angeles Discount Online Trading - Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiejgTBSIPQw1U1lJWDc01A4z0gMRRptMM9EIiRVYKbI5S9TE/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
Tom Stermitz wrote: The basic boleo is (usually) a spiral at the waist, that results in the supporting leg pivoting and the loose leg floating behind and perhaps wrap before coming around to the front. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJUV2QwmflY First few seconds. Liz is lead to spiral at the waist, her leg does float behind and then wraps around front, and then she is lead to settle onto her left foot.A front boleo??? A front ocho??? Simply a cross?? I thought that the root of boleo meant to to throw or to launch. A bowling alley is a bolera. I was under the impression that a whipping action, or the appearance of such, whether lead fast or slowly, was integral to a boleo. If the word is actually voleo, I thought that the english cognate was related to volley, meaning to hit in the air. Again, not a simple spiral, but a more enthusiastic action. help? David _ Get more from your digital life. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
Look at the Youtube videos from Maleva Tango Tutorials. There are several. Jennifer Bratt demonstrates both front and back ochos, high and low, with and without kicks. --- On Wed, 8/6/08, David Thorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First few seconds. Liz is lead to spiral at the waist, her leg does float behind and then wraps around front, and then she is lead to settle onto her left foot.A front boleo??? A front ocho??? Simply a cross?? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
Carol Shepherd writes - I compare dance 'styles' to dialects of the same language. Beautiful analogy. Or maybe more, a fundamental reality. Thinking of dance as a language of the body puts a lot of matters in perspective. The special nature of tango is that it has an enormously bigger vocabulary and ways to use that vocabulary than any other social dance. Show tango is like a play. Its author is a choreographer who tries to create a work of art that pleases herself and others. Performers may do their job mechanically or try to add something special to the same moves done in the same order every night. A particular play may include sequences which are realistic or at least try to stay close to they way most people really dance. Or sequences that are fantastic, with lifts that show a woman seemingly floating through the air. The show may done on an elevated stage so more people can see. Or it may be done in closed-off pedestrian street. Or in the middle of a dance floor by guest teachers visiting a city, who may improvise the show on the spot the way Irish bards were reputed to do. Joe Grohens writes - I dance differently with different women. I find that the embrace is absolutely unique with each partner I dance with. I don't know what the embrace will be -- I explore the possibilities on the first dance. I explore them further with each successive dance... I feel the same way. More, the same woman may be very different in different times, maybe depressed early in the evening and jubilant later. Sergio Vandekier writes - At certain time and after being exposed to different types of tango you may have the chance to select the style you wish to dance. More, you will CREATE your own style that takes a little from all your experiences. You (or someone else) may consider you to be dancing exclusively nuevo tango but a closer look will show you are putting your own unique stamp on it. This is why many of us get so angry when someone points out problems or limits with a particular style. We are so identified with that style that we feel they are attacking us. As in other languages, some people have more or at least different talents to bring to their dancing. Some are more creative, or athletic, or dedicated. Some feel freer to express themselves. Some are poets on the dance floor, others poor plodders, or tongue-tied. Finally, styles are useful short-hand and convenient labels. But we must not mistake the labels for the reality. That would enslave us to abstracts, the way meteorological categories can blind us to the evanescent never-to-be-repeated glory of a sunset. Larry de Los Angeles Convert your life experience into a degree. Click now for Adult Education programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifm9SS6iXqjJaUUTyxLKC1uEB8zxuZOWXP6GDOIOdWVNvt5Y/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Dubravko Kakarigi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The way I understand what Trini is talking about is that every dancer eventually (the sooner the better) finds his or her own body which then, to a large extent, forms the basis for his or her own style -- unique in time and space. We all draw from the same bag of technical and choreographic concepts, but given our unique physique, psyche, and ways to feel and interpret the music and connect with our parters, we dance our unique dance. Yes, and even if one tries to vary or tries to dance differently with other women, it will still be within a subset of all of the possibilities, right? So one may imitate the embrace or movements but the energy can't disguise itself. I don't know how I can explain this energy. It's something that comes from experience and feeling it. I've been fortunate to dance with enough excellent men who are prototypes of their styles and have grown accustomed to recognizing the different energies in these specialists. I suppose it's the same way a football coach can sense if a player would be better as a quarterback or as a tight end. With male students, I can often tell early on whether he is more suited to a milonguero style or salon and will teach accordingly. He'll make the final choice, of course, but as a teacher, it's my responsibility to help him with that choice. For me tango is an emotional, artful expression and I don't want to intellectualize when I dance. Do you really want your partner to think he's preleading a boleo or he's setting up for a back sacada? The second she thinks that takes her away from dancing or focusing on you and she'll start anticipating. Thinking is for the practicas. At a milonga I expect the music and my body to take over. As for my personal style, my base is milonguero. Though I dance all of the others pretty well, I recognize my limitations, physical and otherwise. And I would say not to be afraid to be categorized because it can also expose you to what you do not yet know and can choose to explore further or deeper. Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Social Tango + Puppy Castello on style
Trini wrote: With male students, I can often tell early on whether he is more suited to a milonguero style or salon and will teach accordingly. So, are those the two main choices? (And if so, why?) For me tango is an emotional, artful expression and I don't want to intellectualize when I dance. But isn't that what you are doing if you categorize the guy you are about to dance with? As for my personal style, my base is milonguero. Though I dance all of the others pretty well, I recognize my limitations, physical and otherwise. OK - so you dance milonguero, plus all of the others. And that would be called dancing a style. Next time someone asks me what style I dance, that will be my answer too: all of the styles. Now, thankfully, everyone can know in advance what it will be like to dance with me. Yow -- all these years not knowing what my style was, but finally, I've got it. .. Speaking of milonguero. The BBC Confiteria Ideal 2005 documentary is sampled on youtube. (It's nicely done, and includes interviews w. Javier Geraldine, Puppy Castello, and Chicho.) Check out Puppy Castello in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CmBLdEY9A transcription Puppy: The most difficult thing is the tango walk. Anyone can do the steps -- me, for instance! But very few people can walk. [...] Puppy: Most of the old milongueros, other than Portalea, are dead now. Times change. Maybe youngsters are dancing the tango of the future. But I like my own style. Interviewer: What style do you dance? Puppy: It's the style of the 40s. It has rhythm and elegance. Young people move like elephants. For instance, look at Geraldine, who dances our style of tango. She's 20 but she dances like us. /transcription What I want to know is - why didn't Puppy say my style is milonguero style? When you think of the kind of people you could classify as milongueros - wouldn't Puppy Castello have fit the bill? If Puppy Castello was a milonguero, why didn't he dance milonguero style? Maybe he is not a milonguero. In that case, what do you call him? A dancer? A salonero? Puppy himself called Portalea a milonguero. (But Portalea didn't dance milonguero style either.) -joe ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] NA-W LAS VEGAS FESTIVAL 08!!!!
Dear Tango Friends, We are looking forward to see all of you attend and share Magic Lucky Tango Nights Festival with us, we have an amazing schedule like never before at any tango festival. Considering the economic situation we have extended the Early Bird Registration until AUGUST 10TH. Hopefully this will give you more time to organize your itinerary and take advantage of the money savings in a calm fashion. For more information please visit www.lasvegastangoweekend.com Un abrazo Magic Lucky Tango Cast Amigos tangueros dado a los pedidos de muchos de ustedes por razones economicas, concideramos justo extender el early bird, conservando el precio actual hasta el 10 de agosto, de esa forma podran hacer sus compras de pasajes y registracion con mas tranquilidad. Esperamos verlos de esta forma a todos en el 2 magic lucky tango night,para mas informacion por favor visitar la pagina de internet www.lasvegastangoweekend.com Un abrazo! Magic Lucky Tango Cast - Teachers: Fernanda Guillermo Hugo Latorre Los Hermanos Macana Graciela Gonzalez Musicians: Melanie Hutton The Motta's tango Group Pepe and Pablo Motta What happens in Vegas!!! Stays in LasVegasTangoWeekend.com Magic,Lucky,Tango,Nights 7345 S.Durango Dr # B-107-278 Las Vegas Nv 89113 Contact 702-379-6057 Contact 702-372-9581 www.lasvegastangoweekend.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Things we can learn from the French
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBVcFM05hM4 - Subtle cabeceo - A nice greeting - Proper milonga protocol posted on walls - Proper compensation We have lost so much. Neil ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango + Puppy Castello on style
Joe, You can read the archives of the tango-l. There is a story in detail about how Susana Miller invented the term milonguero when she began teaching in the early 1990s. The reason that Puppy and others didn't say that they danced milonguero style is because they didn't know that they did!:) Best, Nina At 04:40 PM 8/6/2008, Joe Grohens wrote: Trini wrote: With male students, I can often tell early on whether he is more suited to a milonguero style or salon and will teach accordingly. So, are those the two main choices? (And if so, why?) For me tango is an emotional, artful expression and I don't want to intellectualize when I dance. But isn't that what you are doing if you categorize the guy you are about to dance with? As for my personal style, my base is milonguero. Though I dance all of the others pretty well, I recognize my limitations, physical and otherwise. OK - so you dance milonguero, plus all of the others. And that would be called dancing a style. Next time someone asks me what style I dance, that will be my answer too: all of the styles. Now, thankfully, everyone can know in advance what it will be like to dance with me. Yow -- all these years not knowing what my style was, but finally, I've got it. .. Speaking of milonguero. The BBC Confiteria Ideal 2005 documentary is sampled on youtube. (It's nicely done, and includes interviews w. Javier Geraldine, Puppy Castello, and Chicho.) Check out Puppy Castello in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CmBLdEY9A transcription Puppy: The most difficult thing is the tango walk. Anyone can do the steps -- me, for instance! But very few people can walk. [...] Puppy: Most of the old milongueros, other than Portalea, are dead now. Times change. Maybe youngsters are dancing the tango of the future. But I like my own style. Interviewer: What style do you dance? Puppy: It's the style of the 40s. It has rhythm and elegance. Young people move like elephants. For instance, look at Geraldine, who dances our style of tango. She's 20 but she dances like us. /transcription What I want to know is - why didn't Puppy say my style is milonguero style? When you think of the kind of people you could classify as milongueros - wouldn't Puppy Castello have fit the bill? If Puppy Castello was a milonguero, why didn't he dance milonguero style? Maybe he is not a milonguero. In that case, what do you call him? A dancer? A salonero? Puppy himself called Portalea a milonguero. (But Portalea didn't dance milonguero style either.) -joe ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
