[Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
Nina Pesochinsky writes - You can read the archives of the tango-l. There is a story in detail about how Susana Miller invented the term milonguero when she began teaching in the early 1990s. The reason that Puppy and others didn't say that they danced milonguero style is because they didn't know that they did!:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CmBLdEY9A Looking at the video you can clearly see that Puppy always left a space between himself and his partner. That is, he did not dance what some people call milonguero style. While I was working for NASA I was sent fairly regularly to San Francisco. I often could take a long weekend and danced and took classes. One of my favorite teaching couples were Argentine. They described their style as salon and a separation was an essential part of it. They complained about the vulgar style that some people had begun to bring back from Buenos Aires. Belly bumpers (their exact term) were not real tango dancers. They were milongueros, which to them meant drunks without jobs who spent all their times at the milongas to pick up young women. They danced close to seduce the innocent women. They especially liked foreign women because they had money and did not know better than to let a man dance so disgracefully close. They even thought that dancing close was proper! Oh, and these layabouts were too poor to own a suit, which was essential to an evening of elegant dancing. Probably because if they did have jobs they were just cab drivers or waiters or worked at the docks. They amused me but they were always kind when criticizing us and gave us useful aid in overcoming whatever problems we had. I respected them and so respected their viewpoints and always listened attentively to them. I heard echoes in them of what must have been said by the middle and upper classes in Argentina when the French made tango popular for all people. Perhaps in it was a little fear of the poor invading the elegant halls that they themselves trod in. Larry de Los Angeles Visit the Big Apple. Click here for information on vacation packages and tickets. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifkbntFIqyfVZrDjEjq2Ytz7tOHSgk2HheXNPpE82RQzs8Jk/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
Your post is insightful, Larry. The video also takes place in a large hall with plenty of room. In a more crowded room, Puppy might dance quite differently, without the space between couples. Geraldine's parents (who influenced Geraldine) are from Villa Urquiza, I think. Anyone know where Puppy is from? This is one of the styles we think of as salon. Whether folks like it or not, milonguero is a term that has been accepted by enough people to make it valid description of a style of tango. We all know what style to envision when Larry wrote: That is, he did not dance what some people call milonguero style. This is how language works. It's not as if some government council on English decides that, for example, talk to the hand means don't talk to me. Which reminds me, in countries that have nouns with genders, how do they decide if something is masculine or feminine? Why is it volcada and not volcado? The term came from a verb, which is gender neutral. Trini de Pittsburgh --- On Fri, 8/8/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers To: tango-L@mit.edu Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:22 AM Nina Pesochinsky writes - You can read the archives of the tango-l. There is a story in detail about how Susana Miller invented the term milonguero when she began teaching in the early 1990s. The reason that Puppy and others didn't say that they danced milonguero style is because they didn't know that they did!:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CmBLdEY9A Looking at the video you can clearly see that Puppy always left a space between himself and his partner. That is, he did not dance what some people call milonguero style. While I was working for NASA I was sent fairly regularly to San Francisco. I often could take a long weekend and danced and took classes. One of my favorite teaching couples were Argentine. They described their style as salon and a separation was an essential part of it. They complained about the vulgar style that some people had begun to bring back from Buenos Aires. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
Joe, I admire you, but from my own experience, I think you're unusual. Most people, after they've been dancing for a few years, develop a 'preferred style'. Of course there will always be exceptions such as changing style for a performance or dancing with a partner who has a fondness for Nuevo figures, etc. But changing styles is usually an exception, not the rule. Personally, I enjoy my own style and I choose my partners knowing that they also like my style. Maybe I'm boring and not adventurous enough, but I hate surprises and want to feel comfortable when I dance. Btw, I'm talking about milongas here. Classes and practicas are fine for explorations. Jack - Original Message From: Joe Grohens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Speaking only for myself, I dance differently with different women. I find that the embrace is absolutely unique with each partner I dance with. I don't know what the embrace will be -- I explore the possibilities on the first dance.. I explore them further with each successive dance ... ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] How to lead volcadas
Chris, I completely agree with you and no one has ever said that ... one particular predefined sequence is the only thing that is called volcada. I don't know where you got that idea. Just check YouTube and you'll find countless variations of Volcadas. It's my view that tango is a fast-evolving art form and the meanings of words do change due to common usage. It just seems to me that it would help in communication if we all understand a word to mean the same thing and to stop arguing semantics. We can leave the original, actual true meaning of the words to the history books and the academics, while we concentrate on the dancing. Nowadays, it seems that a 'Volcada' as the word is now commonly used, involves more than just a lean - that would be a Puente or Carpa. If it includes the man walking around the lady, that would be a Calesita. IMHO, a Volcada, during the leaning action, includes a forward and / or sideways movement of the lady's free leg. Of course, this leg can then do many things, either as adornments or as led by the man, and the foot can end in different positions, in front or behind. I had one teacher who described Front and Back Volcadas, depending on the final position of the moving foot. Jack - Original Message From: Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] What it tells us Jack is that some people have got the idea that one particular predefined sequence is the only thing that is called volcada... ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
- Original Message From: David Thorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] First few seconds. Liz is lead to spiral at the waist, her leg does float behind and then wraps around front, and then she is lead to settle onto her left foot. A front boleo??? A front ocho??? Simply a cross?? I'd say that Liz is dancing a small, low, Back Boleo because, as Tom says, her free leg is floating behind. In a classical Front Ocho, the man would lead the lady to collect, prior to rotation. IMHO, leading the change of rotation prior to collection is what causes the free leg to swing into a Boleo. After the Boleo, Liz dances a nice cross. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] With front boleos I have to make some space for the woman to use first, either by letting her pull away from me or by doing a lean. Anyone have pointers on leading/doing front boleos? IMO, leading a Front Boleo is the same as leading a Back Boleo, i.e. change the direction of rotation without first leading the lady to collect. In a Back Boleo, this results in the backward, swinging action of the free leg, whereas, in a Front Boleo, it results in the free leg wrapping around in front the supporting leg. No space is needed for this. Alternatively, the man could create space at the feet with a Volcada and the lady could then dance a Front Boleo by allowing her leg to swing forward. Btw, again IMO, leading Front and Back Boleos also requires changes of weight, as is nicely shown in the video provided by David. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Open/crossed step uses?
Sacadas are another good example of the usefulness of the open/cross system understanding. ... From this, you can easily work out how many different Sacadas are possible while walking outside partner, left or right side in crossed or parallel feet. Actually you can't. All you can work out is how many different sacadas are possible in such a system of representation. And this tells you more about the limitations of the system than it does about the possibilities in the dance. Again, sacada is a term of description, not the name of a step. In real dancing, there are countless different sacadas. These so-called systems that reduce them to a small set of discrete step types serve only the needs of the paint-by-numbers tango instructors. Dancers have no need for them at all. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:48 AM, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether folks like it or not, milonguero is a term that has been accepted by enough people to make it valid description of a style of tango. Perhaps, but I still refuse to use it. As far as I'm concerned, there are two basic types of tango: fantasia (performing), and salon (social). A subset of salon is apilado, which is what Susana Miller and Cacho Dante do. Coincidentally, the first time I ever heard the term milonguero style, it was more resembling what Larry mentioned, to wit, old balding fat guys waddling around the dance floor like ducks. Oddly enough, though, it didn't come across (to me at least) as an insulting term, but rather a respectful, authentic one, describing a more down-to-earth, blue-collar, dancing for decades club-sytle tango. In other words, we can't be 20 years old, slim and delicately elegant forever. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Open/crossed step uses?
Chris, Not sure I understand what you mean by sacada being a term of description rather than the name of a step. I always thought of a sacada as a step where one person displaces the foot (being lifted) of the other as they take a step. Surely there are many possible sacadas, so perhaps it would be better to say sacada is a category of steps, and you have to add more information to actually name a given step - leader's right sacada on follower's trailing left foot as she does a right forward ocho. But how is this different than ocho as a name of a step, since there are likewise several different versions. Maybe we're playing with words, but if you could elaborate a bit on what you mean... J Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:55:00 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tango-L@mit.edu CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Open/crossed step uses? Sacadas are another good example of the usefulness of the open/cross system understanding. ... From this, you can easily work out how many different Sacadas are possible while walking outside partner, left or right side in crossed or parallel feet. Actually you can't. All you can work out is how many different sacadas are possible in such a system of representation. And this tells you more about the limitations of the system than it does about the possibilities in the dance. Again, sacada is a term of description, not the name of a step. In real dancing, there are countless different sacadas. These so-called systems that reduce them to a small set of discrete step types serve only the needs of the paint-by-numbers tango instructors. Dancers have no need for them at all. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l _ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
Trini writes The video [showing Puppy dancing with Geraldine (Rojas?)] also takes place in a large hall with plenty of room. In a more crowded room, Puppy might dance quite differently The distance between him Geraldine was only 2 or 3 inches, so perhaps not. But a good point. I suspect most people nowadays who dance (what my Argentine teachers called) salon do close up to milonguero style when the floor is full. I do, at any rate. Speaking of milongueros (in the general sense of long-time tango dancer, NOT my friends' vulgar street-person!) I noticed in Argentina that many people danced very simply most of the evening, when the crowd was thick. Then the last hour or two, 3-5 am, when the floor emptied out, a few of them began doing very advanced stuff. Not so much showing off, as pulling out all the stops when they had the space to do so. At Lo de Celia (I think it was) at one point an immensely fat woman and a tall skinny man, both quite old, actually cleared the floor the way I had before only seen in dance movies. And I understood why. For one tanda I could only sit, my mouth decidely closed lest it hang open, and watch in awe. At the end of the tanda no one applauded. A few of the old-timers gave a sort of reserved nod, as if to say Well Done. Not a few people simply packed up and left. As did I. Anything following what I had seen would have felt lame. Larry de Los Angeles Free information on EMR systems. Click here to compare systems. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigiK1R0bRQa8MUQVdGvadfATaMf7SO69QAQGGR5e1d1wx7gO/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Going to Ireland!
Barring emergencies I will be in Ireland the last two weeks in September. Anyone here with pointers about traveling there that I (and others making similar trips) might not already have come across? Or about the Irish milongas? My schedule allows me to go to Los Bohemios del Tango in Dublin on Friday the 19th. The next day I want to go at the Smock Alley Café milonga. Then in Belfast next Saturday, the 27th, I should be able to go to The Edge restaurant for their milonga. What a terrific looking place it seems, and what a view of the river out the windows! I'm very much looking forward to going early and having dinner and enjoying the view. I'll also be in Galway, Limerick, and Cork, but not at a time when I can go to their events. The trip, incidentally, will be to gather photos and impressions and do research to fold back into the two Shapechanger Chronicles novels I'm about to start peddling via my website devoted to the series. If any of you are curious about what I was doing when I dropped out of tango-l many years ago, this is it. Oh, and I doubt if any of you will care to ever read the Shapechanger books, but for the curious the first part of the first book can found online on the site. http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Larry de Los Angeles Buried in medical files? Click here for information on an electronic system. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigiK1Wlgnu1Yruqwmo3amMKgMht9skaqHzFvWV97ppLz5PFY/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
On Aug 8, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Jack Dylan wrote: - Original Message From: David Thorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] First few seconds. Liz is lead to spiral at the waist, her leg does float behind and then wraps around front, and then she is lead to settle onto her left foot.A front boleo??? A front ocho??? Simply a cross?? I'd say that Liz is dancing a small, low, Back Boleo because, as Tom says, her free leg is floating behind. In a classical Front Ocho, the man would lead the lady to collect, prior to rotation. IMHO, leading the change of rotation prior to collection is what causes the free leg to swing into a Boleo. After the Boleo, Liz dances a nice cross. Collecting i.e. stopping with her feet together will kill the boleo. The woman should do the opposite. She should NOT collect, she should pass by close. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Going to Ireland!
Larry, goin' to Ireland and travelling other parts of the word to tango three websites should provide you with informatiion and links: Rob Nuijten from Amsterdam has torito - go tango worldwide online: http://www.torito.nl/ Garrit Fleischmann from Frankfurt has the classical tango-link-site: http://www.cyber-tango.com/ Pay attention as the original site includes the hyphen between cyber and tango! Tobias Conradi from Berlin hosts: http://www.tango.info/ The english language pages also to be found directly through http://eng.tango.info/ Happy traveling and tangoing, and do not enjoy too many Guiness! :-) Christian . Barring emergencies I will be in Ireland the last two weeks in September. Anyone here with pointers about traveling there that I (and others making similar trips) might not already have come across? Or about the Irish milongas? -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] song's name?
hi all would anyone be able to figure out what the name of the first song is in the following youtube clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ZkO6fQJ2Yfeature=related i recognize the last two but not the first one. a little frustrating... M Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
