Re: Which one?

[Martin]

Hi MFPA

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 11:03:27 PM you wrote:

> I think the main issue is that most people cannot be bothered to 
> encrypt or digitally sign their email, irrespective of ease or 
> difficulty. Being unable to get friends or family members to do so is 
> almost the default.

As long as everybody tells you that to encrypt mails (with GnuPG or
other tools) is so complicated nothing will change - you are right.

But with gpg4win it is now quite simple to enable clients (TheBat,
Thunderbird, ClawsMail and more) to use GnuPG.

But it is true, prejudices are hard do brake.

-- 
Best regards,
   Martin
   dagob...@yahoo.com

TheBat! 7.4.16.3 (BETA) Pro (with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1

pgpKmHwsDrJWz.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Which one?

[MFPA]

Hi


On Tuesday 11 April 2017 at 5:18:57 PM, in
, Martin wrote:-

> If you have it - you can send him encrypted mail. And
> if you sent him
> your question with your signature he has your public
> key and he is
> able to send you encrypted mail.  

I think the main issue is that most people cannot be bothered to 
encrypt or digitally sign their email, irrespective of ease or 
difficulty. Being unable to get friends or family members to do so is 
almost the default.


-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

A bus station is where a bus stops. 
A train station is where a train stops. 
On my desk there is a work station.

Using The Bat! v7.4.16 on Windows 10.0 Build 14393  



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Which one?

[MFPA]

Hi


On Tuesday 11 April 2017 at 8:22:25 PM, in
, Martin wrote:-


> If Windows 10 handles it so complicated - I can't
> give you any hint
> because I am using Windows 7 and I will never change
> to Windows 10.

I have no such issues with GnuPG on Windows 10. I probably do not use 
the same "protection tools". (My anti-virus is Avast.)

-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

Always borrow money from a pessimist - they don't expect it back

Using The Bat! v7.4.16 on Windows 10.0 Build 14393  



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Which one?

[Martin]

Hi Goos

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 7:39:07 PM you wrote:

  > At first the GnuPG program did not install correctly, due to my protection
> tools. I had to delete it and clean the registry and then, after a reboot, a
> new install succeeded because I then was prepared to make whitelist entries
> in those tools.

If Windows 10 handles it so complicated - I can't give you any hint
because I am using Windows 7 and I will never change to Windows 10.

> Then keys had to be created. I did not understand why two of them, which
> costed time to read a manual - it is not really intuitive.

Why two? When you create your private key (with the secret and which
you have to save) also the public key is created which you send to the
keyserver or your mail partners. So not really complicated.

> Then The Bat had to be changed - I had to make templates for all my
> accounts; each time a template which did use the encryption and one
> who didn't. That failed.

Why this? You need (really?) only one template for an account. In the
editor window when you edit your message you can push the button if
you want to sign or / and encrypt the message.

>  Before I did not work with templates at all,
> just took TB as it was installed. Only years ago I added a macro that
> someone posted here and wrote where exactly to put it. Think, it was
> MAU.

Why to use macros? If you set your TheBat to German language the
templates for new mail, replay and forward are already there - also in
German.

> But further, I am not experienced at all with those functions of TB
> not interested in it.

Which features?

> Then I tried similar at another email program with another
> emailaddress to have at least some keys to exchange. I did not know
> how to implement them - had to search again where and how to handle
> that - meanwhile I was already completely demotivated by that all.
> I also failed to make there templates.

Again, why templates. And you don't have to "import keys" - this is
GnuPG which is handling with keys, not the email client.

Which other email client are you trying?

> Because I did not find a simple step-by-step instruction what where
> and when to do - I did not get such a help here - I asked for it in a social
> medium. Someone there offered my a free Skype course in PGP (not how
> to handle it in The Bat), but advised me to let it and to get VPN.

VPN isn't an alternative for encrypted mail in my opinion.

> I still do not really understand the function of those encryption
> programs, but simply followed Max' suggestion to install GnuPG as I
> asked which PGP tool I should install best. I even had to ask here
> whether gpg4win was the tool Max meant.

So you installed gpg4win?

> Then, no one of the people who I asked it for, was willing to use
> GnuPG or some other PGP tool - they also had negative experiences -
> too much time, too much to read and understand.

I don't have these negative experiences.

> I followed that VPN advise, accepted the offer from NordVPN and, with a
> little direct help from them (via a live chat on their site) the whole thing 
> was
> done and running within ten minutes, while that GnuPG was not working in TB
> for days.

For VPN I can't give support - as said, it's not an alternative IMHO.

> Implementing PGP in The Bat and getting it all working is complicated
> for someone who just wants his email more protected, but who is not
> really interested in lots of installing, configuring, reading docs and
> manuals and trying out such technical things.

To have something but not to be interested in - well this is "a little
bit" complicated I think. You want to drive but you are not interested
in traffic rules and to learn how to drive a car? Really?

PS. Wir können auch in Deutsch kommunizieren... privat, nicht hier in
der List. Chat auf XMPP.

--
Best regards,
   Martin
   dagob...@yahoo.com

TheBat! 7.4.16.3 (BETA) Pro (with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Which one?

[Goos]

> Why? On Windows you install gpg4win and probably you have already
> installed an email client which supports GnuPG. So you generate your
> key and you are done.
> What can be complicated with this?

This will be a little longer 

At first the GnuPG program did not install correctly, due to my protection
tools. I had to delete it and clean the registry and then, after a reboot, a
new install succeeded because I then was prepared to make whitelist entries
in those tools.
Then keys had to be created. I did not understand why two of them, which
costed time to read a manual - it is not really intuitive.
Then The Bat had to be changed - I had to make templates for all my
accounts; each time a template which did use the encryption and one
who didn't. That failed. Before I did not work with templates at all,
just took TB as it was installed. Only years ago I added a macro that
someone posted here and wrote where exactly to put it. Think, it was
MAU.
But further, I am not experienced at all with those functions of TB
not interested in it.
Then I tried similar at another email program with another
emailaddress to have at least some keys to exchange. I did not know
how to implement them - had to search again where and how to handle
that - meanwhile I was already completely demotivated by that all.
I also failed to make there templates.

Because I did not find a simple step-by-step instruction what where
and when to do - I did not get such a help here - I asked for it in a social
medium. Someone there offered my a free Skype course in PGP (not how
to handle it in The Bat), but advised me to let it and to get VPN.
I still do not really understand the function of those encryption
programs, but simply followed Max' suggestion to install GnuPG as I
asked which PGP tool I should install best. I even had to ask here
whether gpg4win was the tool Max meant.

Then, no one of the people who I asked it for, was willing to use
GnuPG or some other PGP tool - they also had negative experiences -
too much time, too much to read and understand.

I followed that VPN advise, accepted the offer from NordVPN and, with a
little direct help from them (via a live chat on their site) the whole thing was
done and running within ten minutes, while that GnuPG was not working in TB
for days.

That's it.
Implementing PGP in The Bat and getting it all working is complicated
for someone who just wants his email more protected, but who is not
really interested in lots of installing, configuring, reading docs and
manuals and trying out such technical things.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Gunivortus
mailto:g...@boudicca.de



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Which one?

[Martin]

Hi Adrian

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 6:04:35 PM you wrote:

> Irrespective  of  whether it is simple or not, how do you avoid asking
> everybody  else  whether  they  can  receive  PGP  mails and of course
> communicating the keys?

I am not sure if I understand your question correctly. But you must
have the public key of your addressee - so you download it from a key
server, download it from a Web site of the user or you already got a
sign message of him or you contact him once to get the key.

If you have it - you can send him encrypted mail. And if you sent him
your question with your signature he has your public key and he is
able to send you encrypted mail.

-- 
Best regards,
   Martin
   dagob...@yahoo.com

TheBat! 7.4.16.3 (BETA) Pro (with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1

pgpQbLhJ5r5ZV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Which one?

[Adrian Godfrey]

Tuesday, April 11, 2017, 4:16:32 PM, you wrote:

> Email clients TheBat, Thunderbird or ClawsMail on Windows (also with
> gpg4win installed) are very simple to use. On Linux it is simple as
> well.

Irrespective  of  whether it is simple or not, how do you avoid asking
everybody  else  whether  they  can  receive  PGP  mails and of course
communicating the keys?

Adrian



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Which one?

[Martin]

Hi Goos

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 4:21:39 PM you wrote:

> From my own experience and of two friends with whom I tried together to
> get it running, I completely disagree. It is NOT simple, it is complicated
> and has already cost me too much time.

Why? On Windows you install gpg4win and probably you have already
installed an email client which supports GnuPG. So you generate your
key and you are done.

What can be complicated with this?

-- 
Best regards,
   Martin
   dagob...@yahoo.com

TheBat! 7.4.16.3 (BETA) Pro (with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Which one?

[Goos]

>>  My conclusion: PGP is (still) something for interested freaks.

> This is now quite old prejudice.
> Email clients TheBat, Thunderbird or ClawsMail on Windows (also with
> gpg4win installed) are very simple to use. On Linux it is simple as
> well.

From my own experience and of two friends with whom I tried together to
get it running, I completely disagree. It is NOT simple, it is complicated
and has already cost me too much time.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Gunivortus



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Which one?

[Martin]

Hi Goos

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 3:38:43 PM you wrote:

>  My conclusion: PGP is (still) something for interested freaks.

This is now quite old prejudice.

Email clients TheBat, Thunderbird or ClawsMail on Windows (also with
gpg4win installed) are very simple to use. On Linux it is simple as
well.

-- 
Best regards,
   Martin
   dagob...@yahoo.com

TheBat! 7.4.16.3 (BETA) Pro (with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1

pgpqMVyBbG8J1.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Which one?

[Goos]

 > I have GnuPG installed

 Well, I had.
 What a rigmarole!
 Getting GnuPG working is laborious and quite time-consuming
 and because I could not find a good beginners help, I gave up and
 deleted the program.
 My conclusion: PGP is (still) something for interested freaks.

 Instead, I am using (paid) VPN now and hope all my internet
 activities, including the mail transport is protected.

 Thanks to those who reacted for thinking aong with me.

 Regards,
 Gunivortus



Current version is 7.1 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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