Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Alexander, On Thursday, April 21, 2005, you wrote: It's slow during mail retrieval, which is OK because it's doing lots of thinking (pathetic fallacy?) ASK K9 does the same thinking and its blazingly fast OK - sold. Thanks for the advice, K9's installed and doing a pretty good job as far as I can see. No perceivable system loading even since I've trained it with many thousands of good/bad messages. -- Nick Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 01:11:08 +0200, Robin Anson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What version of Popfile are you using? I have been using it for some years now, and have never noticed it slowing - what is it that you see happening? PopFile itself is achingly slow. :-} -- Gruesse / Greetings, Alexander Kunz Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Robin, On Thursday, April 21, 2005, you wrote: RA What version of Popfile are you using? I'm on the latest - v0.22.2. RA I have been using it for some years now, and have never noticed it RA slowing - what is it that you see happening? It's slow during mail retrieval, which is OK because it's doing lots of thinking (pathetic fallacy?), but it also seems to do a lot of database management throughout the day. I really applaud the popfile project, and it's still the best catcher outside of running (and maintaining) a server side spamassassin, but from time to time I like to check out the alternatives. Chances are that I'll be back running it next week... -- Nick Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:57:53 +0200, Nick Dutton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's slow during mail retrieval, which is OK because it's doing lots of thinking (pathetic fallacy?) K9 does the same thinking and its blazingly fast during mail retrieval (hardly noticable there's anything in-between TB and the POP server). PopFile is a Perl application. And Perl is the C64 Basic v2 where other programming languages are Assembler. :-) -- Gruesse / Greetings, Alexander Kunz Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hi On Wednesday 20 April 2005 at 7:54:21 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Philip Storry wrote: Because of those blank emails, I added the Bayes Filter Plugin as a second plugin. You can find that here: http://www.lkcc.org/achim It's good, and I chose it because unlike BayesIt (as far as I know), it also does RBL lookups RBL lookups? -- Best regards, MFPAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Thursday, April 21, 2005, MFPA wrote: RBL lookups? http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/R/RBL.html -- Urban It would be terrible if the Red Cross Bloodmobile got into an accident. No, wait. That would be good because if anyone needed it, the blood would be right there Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hi On Thursday 21 April 2005 at 2:56:10 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Urban wrote: RBL lookups? http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/R/RBL.html Thanks -- Best regards, MFPAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Alexander, On 21 April 2005 at 10:38:07 GMT +0200 (which was 10:38:07 where I live), Alexander S. Kunz wrote and made these valuable points on the subject of Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:57:53 +0200, Nick Dutton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's slow during mail retrieval, which is OK because it's doing lots of thinking (pathetic fallacy?) K9 does the same thinking and its blazingly fast during mail retrieval (hardly noticable there's anything in-between TB and the POP server). PopFile is a Perl application. And Perl is the C64 Basic v2 where other programming languages are Assembler. :-) K9, POPFile, Spambayes and what more products might be available, it's more a matter of personal experiences and how you look at the product from a cosmetic point of view. I agree with you that POPFile (using Perl, install file over 5MB) and Spambayes (using Python, install file over 4MB) are rather large compared to the tiny install file of K9 (116KB). From an installation point of view BayesIT and Bayes Filter ar easier as they are just plug-ins but my experiences with the TB plug-ins are not very positive...they make the behavior of TB sometimes very strange and unpredictable. Since I stopped using plug-ins, I've far less problems with TB. I've used K9, Spambayes and POPFile and my impression is that both Spambayes and POPFile learn quicker than K9.but before we start a new string about this...it's my personal observationso don't shoot me for that :-) -- Best regards, Dick ___ I'm not afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens. Using The Bat! v3.0.9.17 Return on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Privacy is your right...only if you defend it: http://www.metropipe.net/landing.cgi?id=cloggy Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello, I'm going through one of my irregular explorations of anti-SPAM technology, as popfile just seems to grind slower and slower. Although it must be said that it's almost perfect in terms of accuracy. One of the things that I really like about popfile is that I can get TB to delete spam from the server once identified. Aside from the fact that mails are put into a spam folder by bayesit, I can't find any other sign in the message. Is this so? -- Nick TheBat!: v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Nick Dutton On Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 10:58:37 AM +0400 GMT You wrote: ND Hello, ND I'm going through one of my irregular explorations of anti-SPAM ND technology, as popfile just seems to grind slower and slower. Although ND it must be said that it's almost perfect in terms of accuracy. ND One of the things that I really like about popfile is that I can get ND TB to delete spam from the server once identified. ND Aside from the fact that mails are put into a spam folder by bayesit, ND I can't find any other sign in the message. Is this so? I'd like to know this also. How to directly delete an email from pop server when bayesit detect it as spam. But it must be an email with score higher than x%. There is an option to delete the email if the score is higher than x%. Does that deletes the email after downloaded the email or directly on the server? Also, how to know the score of each emails receive by bayesit plugin? Regards, -- The Final Cut TheBat 3.0.2.10 http://finalcut.ca/finalcut.asc pgpL31VUBJnFy.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Nick, Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 3:58:37 PM, you wrote: ND Aside from the fact that mails are put into a spam folder by ND bayesit, I can't find any other sign in the message. Is this so? As far as I can tell, TB doesn't mark the message at all - which I personally find quite disappointing. Each anti-spam plug-in that The Bat! uses keeps its own separate logs, which you can use. In the vase of BayesIt, the logs are here: \Documents and Settings\username\Application Data\BayesIt\ The file name will be bayesit.log. (I'm assuming Windows 2000/XP, by the way - no idea where it is on other platforms, but the filename will be the same and you could search on it...) I've used BayesIt for about a year now, I think, and it's almost flawless. I was getting only a couple of mails a day pass it by, and those were generally blank mails - no text to analyse means that BayesIt is somewhat hamstrung! Because of those blank emails, I added the Bayes Filter Plugin as a second plugin. You can find that here: http://www.lkcc.org/achim It's good, and I chose it because unlike BayesIt (as far as I know), it also does RBL lookups - with which I hope to catch those blank emails. I've had to drop my spam filtering options to use the Minimal score for filtering, and I now see more spam per day - but the figure is going down as I train Bayes Filter Plugin, so I'm happy to accept this for a while. I mention the second plugin because it shows the real problem with spam logs in The Bat! - many people will tell you where BayesIt's logs are, as I just have. And I can also find the Bayes Filter Plugin's own logs. But I'll have to read BOTH sets of logs to figure out what's going on definitively. Actually, I won't. I can read The Bat's logs if I like. CTRL+SHIFT+A will show me the logs for the account I'm in, and in there you'll see when The Bat! has had a message reported as spam by a plugin. It'll be on a line starting with the words FILTER (after the date and time,of course) - but you'll probably have to scroll far to the right to actually see if it's the Junk Mail filters or one of your own filters. With just the BayesIt plugin, it won't be so bad for yourself. You can read just the bayesit.log file, and that'll help you. It's certainly going to be much easier than reading The Bat!'s own logs... But I have two plugins. Each one might report a different score, and that makes it difficult to spot exactly what's going on... What was the score reported by the plugin APIs? Remember, with morethan one plugin, you have three possibilities: Use the maximum score, the average or the minimal. So if one plugin reports a score of 99 and one reports a score of 0, this is what those settings would report: Maximal: 99 Average: ~50 Minimal: 0 If BayesIt reported 99, and I'm using Minimal or Average (with a threshold of over 50), then I'd see in the BayesIt logs that it was spam but not realise that The Bat! never thought it was spam. This can get very confusing very quickly. Especially as, at the end of the day, what the plugin reports is ONLY important if oyu have just one plugin. Now, I'll grant you most people only have one plugin, but I like defence in depth and I think that multiple plugins is a good idea. It's just very badly supported by The Bat!'s logging mechanism. The Bat!'s log reader is a bit basic. I'd really like to see a much better log tool - one which allows me to see all log entries across all accounts, and also to filter based on account, action (fetch/send/filter etc) and to search for specific text (so that I can check my logs for messages from specific addresses, to see if a rule inadvertantly filtered it) and so forth. I'm not in a hurry to get such a feature, but in my opinion The Bat!'s logs will be unusable until such a feature arrives. As to your original question, I have no problem with the Plugins marking the message. But I'd rather that the actual problem was dealt with: decent logging. If I had good logs, I wouldn't even think to check the headers of the message to see what had happened... ;-) -- Best regards, Philipmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 pgpYwRqArIeV7.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
Hello Nick Dutton everyone else, on 20-Apr-2005 at 16:58 you (Nick Dutton) wrote: Aside from the fact that mails are put into a spam folder by bayesit, I can't find any other sign in the message. Is this so? Exactly. If you're only using PopFile for spam filtering, may I suggest to have a look at http://keir.net/k9.html instead. -- Best regards, An ex-PopFile user :-) Deliplayer2 is playing: Astro Know Me Domina (Part V) (8:57) by The Dark Side Of The Moog from the album 'The Dark Side Of The Moog X' Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Bayesit - how does it mark a message as spam?
On Thu 21 April 2005, 0:58:37 +1000, Nick Dutton wrote: I'm going through one of my irregular explorations of anti-SPAM technology, as popfile just seems to grind slower and slower. Although it must be said that it's almost perfect in terms of accuracy. What version of Popfile are you using? I have been using it for some years now, and have never noticed it slowing - what is it that you see happening? -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2, Popfile v0.22.2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
