Re: Mod: Bad subject (was: Unread folder)
Maggie, [M] wrote: You know Allie, I thought about this subject line before naming it such and since the problem lies with the *unread* folder, that's what I named it in the subject line. Paul and Thomas didn't seem to have any problem with the subject line as they gave very plausible solutions to my problem. Others on the list seem to have as much intelligence as those two, therefore, I do not accept your trout! Ok. I woke this morning to see this and had mixed feelings about it. I intended at first not to respond, but as usual, I think the best response comes after some thought before typing and I think I'm finished thinking about it. The thinking time allowed me to stop reflecting too much on how *I* felt after reading the innuendo attacking my intelligence after sending a moderatorial note, and instead, try to see things from your point of view. As usual, my intentions as moderator are good as always. I really tread lightly, but firmly when doing this sort of thing. It's really been challenging trying to make the list run in a way that's comfortable for the membership and yet not get in the way of the members too much. It's with this spirit that I hope my interjections are being read, though I didn't get that impression from your response to this last one. :) I guess my interjection on the quality of your message subject comes as a surprise, especially since I've never really done so before on this list. I guess it's bad form on my part to start moderating message subjects on the list without officially warning members that I'll be doing so. For that I apologize. Anyway, inadequacy of message subjects was the discussion point on TBBETA quite recently. I don't know if you're subscribed there. Adequate subject headers are a vital part to making it comfortable for our members to more easily see what messages are about and to better do searches. It also helps the busy members, especially the developers, to quickly see what threads they'll read first or at all, before moving on. I agreed with this and realized that we've never really moderated this important aspect of posting, though we moderate the use of cut marks. :) I decided we really aught to moderate inadequate subjects when seen. This has been well received on TBBETA. When we moderate top posting, this doesn't mean that we're assuming the poster didn't think about their posting format. In fact, top posting is often done with a lot of thought behind it. The same applies to your message subject. We *never* think that those who infringe list rules do so because they're not intelligent enough to know better. In fact, like top posting, we do know that there's a lot of deliberate, and in most instances, innocent and reasoned thought behind the infringements. The thing is that when we explain why a list rule exists, most do see the reason behind our rules even though they may not have thought about it that way before. Additionally, many active members, including myself, never really looked at message subjects since we read most, if not all, threads. We moderate top posting and excessive quoting but very few actually publicly complain about the posts that infringe rules when seen. So your comment that others don't seem to have a problem with it doesn't really indicate that your subject was seen as inadequate or not. Finally, formulating subjects does is not a black and white thing. It requires judgement and experience. Formulating a message subject for private correspondence is different from doing so for a busy list. From discussion, it would seem that those who rely on good message subjects wish for a format like: what area in TB! is the query about what about that area You could either do it in that format, for example: BayesIt: Why is my spam getting through despite training? or BayesIt: Where do I get the latest build or Virtual Folders: Problem with updating message list. Or you could do it like Spam still getting through despite training BayesIt or Where do I get the latest BayesIt build or Problems updating Virtual Folder message lists. I'm sure we can all see that those subjects are more meaningful than just: Bayesit or Virtual Folders or A Question This is all that I'm moderating. -- -=[ Allie Martin ]=- List Moderator and fellow end-user PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com pgpY7YHZ8yShj.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Unread folder
Hi Bats, I have a periodically occurring problem which I *think* happens when receiving a certain type of spam. It only takes one of these spams to affect all of the legitimate messages in the *unread* folder. The messages in the *unread* folder will not show as having been read, and if I click on each boldfaced message title the message pane shows 'no message loaded'. Also, these messages do not delete, either when pressing the delete key, or right clicking and choosing delete. They do respond to 'right click|Select All|Mark as Read' and that seems to be the only way to get rid of them from that folder. I purge and compress with every shutdown. Thanks for any ideas on this. -- :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
On Sunday, July 11, 2004, 10:24 AM, you wrote: mM delete. They do respond to 'right click|Select All|Mark as Read' and mM that seems to be the only way to get rid of them from that folder. I mM purge and compress with every shutdown. yuck! ( is there a yuck smiley??) mM Thanks for any ideas on this. what anti-spam program do you use?? maybe you need a filter to get those specific spams?? -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.12 RC/3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Jun2004 (4.1.418) (avast! version number) 0428-1 (09.07.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.418 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Paul, Sunday, July 11, 2004, 10:52:06 AM, you wrote: Paul what anti-spam program do you use?? Lavasoft AdAware 6 Paul maybe you need a filter to get those specific spams?? OK. The next time one of these special ones comes in I'll write back. This last time in frustration I just marked all read and emptied the entire folder, then rebooted. Thanks, Paul! -- Cheers, Maggie Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Hello mm, On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:24:21 -0400 GMT (11/07/2004, 21:24 +0700 GMT), mm Meister wrote: mM I have a periodically occurring problem which I *think* happens when mM receiving a certain type of spam. It only takes one of these spams mM to affect all of the legitimate messages in the *unread* folder. The mM messages in the *unread* folder will not show as having been read, mM and if I click on each boldfaced message title the message pane mM shows 'no message loaded'. It looks like the GUI has not been refreshed when those messages were read. They are no longer linked to the virtual folder, as they do not fulfill the filter condition any more, but they show in the message list, unlinked. I don't know whether there is a keyboard shortcut for refresh, otherwise close the folder and open it again. The deleted messages should now be gone. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I earn a seven-figure salary. Unfortunately, there's a decimal point involved. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.12 RC/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Paul, Sunday, July 11, 2004, 4:42:45 PM, you wrote: Paul what anti-spam program do you use?? M Lavasoft AdAware 6 P actually, I think anti-virus software would be more appropriate,not P anti-spam, but I think Thomas might have had a better idea, about P refreshing the folder... if that doesn't work, try the filter. I have P one for an EMPTY message, is that what your problem is?? Paul maybe you need a filter to get those specific spams?? Hmmm. Yes, but it's not the empty message, nor the empty subject line type. It just looks like a normal spam - I don't remember what they were selling. I use the Sygate firewall and the Avast virus program; also Bayesit. Thanks Paul!! -- :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Thomas, Sunday, July 11, 2004, 10:49:31 AM, you wrote: T Hello mm, T On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:24:21 -0400 GMT (11/07/2004, 21:24 +0700 GMT), T mm Meister wrote: mM I have a periodically occurring problem which I *think* happens when mM receiving a certain type of spam. It only takes one of these spams mM to affect all of the legitimate messages in the *unread* folder. The mM messages in the *unread* folder will not show as having been read, mM and if I click on each boldfaced message title the message pane mM shows 'no message loaded'. T It looks like the GUI has not been refreshed when those messages were T read. They are no longer linked to the virtual folder, as they do not T fulfill the filter condition any more, but they show in the message T list, unlinked. I don't know whether there is a keyboard shortcut for T refresh, otherwise close the folder and open it again. The deleted T messages should now be gone. OK. Yes. I did the close and reopen. I did everything I could! Only the Select all, then Mark as Read seems to work. BTW, this does not occur with all spams, only certain ones. As soon as I receive another one (and to be sure, I will!) I will let you all know. Thanks Thomas! -- Cheers, :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Bad subject (was: Unread folder)
Hello Allie, Sunday, July 11, 2004, 4:52:00 PM, you wrote: A Maggie, [M] wrote: I have a periodically occurring problem which I *think* happens when receiving a certain type of spam. It only takes one of these spams to affect all of the legitimate messages in the *unread* folder. The messages in the *unread* folder will not show as having been read, A I know I haven't said much on this on TBUDL. However, some members on A TBBETA have voiced their understandable dissatisfaction with how A the subjects for new message queries are being worded. They're often A too vague or inadequate. As a result, it's difficult for the passing A reader to tell without actually reading the message, what the query is A about. You know Allie, I thought about this subject line before naming it such and since the problem lies with the *unread* folder, that's what I named it in the subject line. Paul and Thomas didn't seem to have any problem with the subject line as they gave very plausible solutions to my problem. Others on the list seem to have as much intelligence as those two, therefore, I do not accept your trout! A The problem with subject formulation also occurs when changing the A subject of discussion in an already established thread. Ideally the A subject should be changed to reflect the new flavour of the discussion A and if the subject matter is completely unrelated to the original, A then a new thread should be started. This second paragraph does seem to apply to this particular case since I initiated the thread (obviously with an unacceptable subject line). A So here goes the :trout: ... Yikes!! :snippety snip: -- Maggie Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
On Sunday, July 11, 2004, 7:23 PM, you wrote: Paul maybe you need a filter to get those specific spams?? M Hmmm. Yes, but it's not the empty message, nor the empty subject line M type. It just looks like a normal spam - I don't remember what they M were selling. I use the Sygate firewall and the Avast virus program; M also Bayesit. ah bayesit, I use K9.. same idea, you train it to recognize spam.. as in right-click-specials, mark as junk, right?? -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.12 RC/3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Jun2004 (4.1.418) (avast! version number) 0428-1 (09.07.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.418 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Paul, Sunday, July 11, 2004, 9:57:57 PM, you wrote: M I use the Sygate firewall and the Avast virus program; M also Bayesit. P ah bayesit, I use K9.. same idea, you train it to recognize spam.. P as in right-click-specials, mark as junk, right?? Yes, exactly. It doesn't catch everything, since I do still receive at least two or three viagra or mortgage approval mails per day. There doesn't seem to be a way to get Bayesit to handle this, so I filter for those. Oh well, at least the other-than-English mails have stopped. I like Bayesit because it came with The Bat! and if it is made to operate with my email program I must assume there will be no problems with compatibility issues. This really doesn't have anything to do with the *unread* folder problem though, and since we're not on tbot I don't want to wander. I wish I had not been so quick to delete that problem mail, but I will be ready the next time one arrives. Thanks so much for taking the time. smile -- :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Hello Paul, On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:21:23 -0400 GMT (29/06/2004, 00:21 +0700 GMT), Paul Cartwright wrote: PC I think we solved that problem. Good to hear. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. 38 Prozent aller Studentinnen sind weiblich. * Message reply created with The Bat! 2.11 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Hello Maggie, On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:36:19 -0400 GMT (29/06/2004, 00:36 +0700 GMT), Maggie wrote: M Right, sorry for not being clear. That's OK, since the problem has been solved. M So far, the virtual folders have not given me any problems at all. But me. But nothing serious. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I don't kill flies, but I like to mess with their minds. I hold them above globes. They freak out and yell, Whooa, I'm way too high. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.11 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Hello Maggie, On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:35:23 +0200 GMT (27/06/2004, 23:35 +0700 GMT), Urban wrote: Yes. The original ebay message(s) showed as usual in the Inbox normally as read, but not in the Virtual Folder Unread, and the flying bat icon still flapped. You didn't mention it's a virtual folder - now I understand your problem. They still had some quirks, last time I checked. I will re-enter the beta cycle soon and run some more tests. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I've heard people are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.11 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
On Monday, June 28, 2004, 11:15 AM, you wrote: Yes. The original ebay message(s) showed as usual in the Inbox normally as read, but not in the Virtual Folder Unread, and the flying bat icon still flapped. TF You didn't mention it's a virtual folder - now I understand your TF problem. They still had some quirks, last time I checked. I will TF re-enter the beta cycle soon and run some more tests. I think we solved that problem. I started using her filters, and found they didn't work, using her directions. UNTIL I figured out that I had to SELECT FOLDERS I believe she did that and fixed her problem also :) I really like the flagged filter, makes it easy to find the flagged messages that I meant to reply to :) -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.11.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Jun2004 (4.1.418) (avast! version number) 0426-1 (25.06.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.418 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Thomas, Monday, June 28, 2004, 11:15:45 AM, you wrote: Yes. The original ebay message(s) showed as usual in the Inbox normally as read, but not in the Virtual Folder Unread, and the flying bat icon still flapped. T You didn't mention it's a virtual folder - now I understand your T problem. They still had some quirks, last time I checked. I will T re-enter the beta cycle soon and run some more tests. Right, sorry for not being clear. So far, the virtual folders have not given me any problems at all. I believe Ebay has been doing strange things with their programming. I can submit a bid on an item, but if I try to click on 'ask seller a question' I get a cookie message which is bogus. When I repeatedly asked their Help desk about this problem, they keep giving me the same answer, check with Opera and enable your cookies. Horsehocky! (as Garibaldi says) There's no problem with my cookies. I think they just don't like Opera users, preferring to program in the universe of MS. It all used to work fine until they updated their site. I am using Opera 7.51. -- Thanks! :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Hello Maggie, On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 21:57:35 -0400 GMT (27/06/2004, 08:57 +0700 GMT), Maggie wrote: M Sometimes a message arrives to the Unread folder and when I have M clicked on it and read it, it remains in the unread box, M boldfaced as if it had never been read. I don't have an Unread Folder. Can you explain your set-up? Anyway, did you check your mark messages as read after ... seconds setting? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. When a actress saw her first strands of grey hair, she thought she'd dye. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.11 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Thomas, Sunday, June 27, 2004, 9:29:48 AM, you wrote: Maggie Sometimes a message arrives to the Unread folder and when I have M clicked on it and read it, it remains in the unread box, M boldfaced as if it had never been read. T I don't have an Unread Folder. Can you explain your set-up? Oh, Thomas, I've forgotten! When I first upgraded to the Virtual Folders version, (a brilliant innovation which idea I believe MAU had at the same time) I immediately set up a virtual folder for Unread Messages, thereby obviating the need for the Mail Ticker. Like another poster here recently, I found MTicker to be a bit distracting, but I really liked the idea of knowing when new mail came in other than by seeing the flying bat icon - that, I love. Anyway, under Folders, I think it was Create New Virtual folder, then set Folder Specific Settings. Go to the Filter tab and check Auto Refresh, and then, Use Fast Search, and then below that, Unread. I also created a Virtual Folder for 'Flagged to Respond' which collects any messages I flag which need a response (I want to 'be sure' I can see those messages easily as I have a tendency to lose track, but now the problem is that I forget to flag the messages! :) ) T Anyway, did you check your mark messages as read after ... seconds T setting? Yes. The original ebay message(s) showed as usual in the Inbox normally as read, but not in the Virtual Folder Unread, and the flying bat icon still flapped. Thank you for your help. I hope my directions helped _you_! -- Cheers, Maggie :Maggie: Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
On Sunday, June 27, 2004, 10:09 AM, you wrote: M Anyway, under Folders, I think it was Create New Virtual folder, then M set Folder Specific Settings. Go to the Filter tab and check Auto M Refresh, and then, Use Fast Search, and then below that, Unread. you just solved my problem, what took you so long to post this!!! M I also created a Virtual Folder for 'Flagged to Respond' which M collects any messages I flag which need a response (I want to 'be M sure' I can see those messages easily as I have a tendency to lose M track, but now the problem is that I forget to flag the messages! :) ) oh, I think I just found two wonderful folders!!! I used to just flag them as unread and keep them that way, but I like your method better!!! -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.11.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Jun2004 (4.1.418) (avast! version number) 0426-1 (25.06.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.418 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Unread folder
Hello Paul, Sunday, June 27, 2004, 10:22:40 AM, you wrote: P On Sunday, June 27, 2004, 10:09 AM, you wrote: Mag under Folders, I think it was Create New Virtual folder, then M set Folder Specific Settings. Go to the Filter tab and check Auto M Refresh, and then, Use Fast Search, and then below that, Unread. P you just solved my problem, what took you so long to post this!!! I figured _everybody_ knew how; much easier than trying to do templates... Mag I also created a Virtual Folder for 'Flagged to Respond' which M collects any messages I flag which need a response P oh, I think I just found two wonderful folders!!! I used to just flag P them as unread and keep them that way, but I like your method better!!! preening I'm so happy it's helped! not feeling so Bat challenged -- Warmly, Maggie Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Sunday, June 27, 2004, 3:22:40 PM, Paul Cartwright wrote: M I also created a Virtual Folder for 'Flagged to Respond' which M collects any messages I flag which need a response (I want to 'be M sure' I can see those messages easily as I have a tendency to lose M track, but now the problem is that I forget to flag the messages! :) ) oh, I think I just found two wonderful folders!!! I used to just flag them as unread and keep them that way, but I like your method better!!! I have dome similar (with several new colour-groups for things like reference-bat, reference-boardgames etc) My one related wish is to be be able to right-click within the preview pane to set the colour-group (I can do it from the message-list, but not the message itself) The other, perennial, problem is adding things to the todo list, but never doing them... Tim -- Tim :Tim_Sharrock: Using The Bat! v2.11.02 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
On Sunday, June 27, 2004, 11:24 AM, you wrote: TS I have dome similar (with several new colour-groups for TS things like reference-bat, reference-boardgames etc) well, I am red-green color blind, so I don't both with colors much :) TS My one related wish is to be be able to right-click within TS the preview pane to set the colour-group (I can do it from TS the message-list, but not the message itself) see above answer:) TS The other, perennial, problem is adding things to the todo TS list, but never doing them... join the procrastinators club!! well, maybe next week :) -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.11.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Jun2004 (4.1.418) (avast! version number) 0426-1 (25.06.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.418 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Sunday, June 27, 2004, Maggie wrote: Yes. The original ebay message(s) showed as usual in the Inbox normally as read, but not in the Virtual Folder Unread, and the flying bat icon still flapped. Thank you for your help. I hope my directions helped _you_! Folder - Refresh has been known to solve similar problems in the past. -- Urban I never think of the future - it comes soon enough. (Albert Einstein) Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unread folder
Sunday, June 27, 2004, 5:51:38 PM, Paul Cartwright wrote:
On Sunday, June 27, 2004, 11:24 AM, you wrote:
TS I have dome similar (with several new colour-groups for
TS things like reference-bat, reference-boardgames etc)
well, I am red-green color blind, so I don't both with
colors much :)
It is not necessary to have them use different colours
('though I do use red for todo, or maybe green would be
better, with more of a go ethos). I have about six or
seven colour-groups named, but they are really just named
statuses that can be applied to messages, and can easily be
filtered on. All my reference- colour-groups are
displayed with the same colour, but they show up in
different virtual folders.
Using them this way, does have the limitation that each
message can only have one colour-group, but that is
livable-with (especially since the folder the message lives
in gives one orthogonal way of looking at things.
Tim
--
Tim
:Tim_Sharrock:
Using The Bat! v2.11.02 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1
Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Unread folder
Hi Bats, Sometimes a message arrives to the Unread folder and when I have clicked on it and read it, it remains in the unread box, boldfaced as if it had never been read. I just bid on an Ebay item, and the bid confirm exhibited this behaviour. This is a separate problem I have had with marking an unread message as Spam and sometimes that message is moved to the Junk folder, and sometimes it stays in the Unread box. -- Maggie Current version is 2.11.02 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
