[Techno-Chat]: Re: Braille Sense Polaris, BrailleNote Touch

[Gordon Smith]

No, you’re absolutely wrong there. I’m definitely not a HumanWare man anything. 
There’s plenty that’s wrong with the Touch, and I have said so repeatedly in 
several places, including both this group and also to HumanWare themselves!

I’m not knocking the Hims offering. I only had a brief play with it but I do 
totally accept that it has some innovative and very worthwhile facets. Yes, the 
keyboard is very nice, as Debbie said in a precious post. I think all Hims 
keyboards are much better than the HumanWare keyboard. In fact, there is a lot 
of HumanWare’s offing which was ported directly from the old Apex. 
Specifically, the keyboard and the cursor routers, not to mention the Braille 
cells themselves.

Hims provides a very nice cover for the cells which will, I am sure, prove to 
be an unqualified hit! To the best of my knowledge, they are the only company 
offering this kind of robust protection.


If there’s one design flaw with the HumanWare BrailleNote Touch, it has to be 
the case. Why on earth they decided to include the keyboard in the case itself 
is a mystery. They do, in fact, sell a custom case designed to hold just the 
tablet itself, without a keyboard. But the main weakness in the Touch’s design 
philosophy has to be the nylon cover for the device and the pathetically weak 
magnetic strips which are supposed to Hold the already fragile cover in place.

Experience has shown me only too well just how poor this is. When you’re 
walking with the Touch on your shoulder, the strips on the side of the case 
which are supposed to protect the switches and side-mounted access ports often 
just drop open.  This causes the entire case to flop down beneath the device, 
thus exposing the keyboard, Braille cells, cursor routers and more besides to 
the elements.

So no, I absolutely and utterly robot your ill-informed allegations completely. 
I have made my views very well know to those inside HumanWare, and very 
vociferously at that! So please, if you’re going to make wild allegations based 
on your own interpretation of other people’s views, don’t use me as your 
target. I speak as I find, and the comment which I’ve made to this group are 
based on my own findings and observations. It is not I, I would also point out, 
who just reads about something and claims to know all about it! I’m not 
suggesting it is you either, just for the record.


> On 24 Jun 2017, at 01:54, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Humanware Man through and through? Sounds like a good made up lot of 
> flapdoodle.
> 
> 
> 
> On 24/06/2017 1:41 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> That is utterly the wrong approach. The Touch, for example, gives you the 
>> option. You don’t have to use the touch screen at all, but it’s there if you 
>> want too. The device is intended for the use of the vision impaired and the 
>> blind and, of course, the deaf blind. Like the Hims tablet, the Touch also 
>> has a vibrating motor which can be configured for events. And its touch 
>> screen is there for all. If you’re blind, you can toggle off the video 
>> output to conserve battery power, but even with the video disabled, you can 
>> still type on the touch screen and, optionally, still use gestures.
>> 
>> So I’m sorry, but I think that Hims has made a gross error of judgement 
>> there. Of course, it may be that the Samsung hardware on which the device is 
>> based did not easily lend itself to a touch screen. I think it’s a dreadful 
>> shame though, as with the inclusion of a touch screen it would have been a 
>> truly spectacular device.
>> 
>> Now, it is true that one can perform some touch gestures on the Braille 
>> display itself. So that may go some way to addressing the issue. I haven’t 
>> had the opportunity to try that aspect yet. But I’m sure I shall, and soon. 
>> But having played with the divide, in terms of its interface It comes a poor 
>> second in my opinion. In terms of specifications, it comes out the clear 
>> winner.
>> 
>> I need it to be understood that I am totally unprejudiced with these 
>> comments. I am not, as some people have accused me of being recently, a 
>> HumanWare man through and through. I’m just trying to be objective.
>> 
>>> On 23 Jun 2017, at 10:37, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think the absence of a touch screen on a device may very well be a 
>>> blessing for Hims Inc as not everyone is interested in a touch screen.
>>> 
>>> 3GB of RAM is more than enough, though some of the newer Android devices 
>>> have 4GB - and some 6GB - 3 is still ample, my absolute minimum would be 
>>> 1GB, the Neo Set Top Box I use has 2Gb and it speeds along most of the time 
>>> but with 1GB you do notice things slowing down, another device I have - 
>>> can't remember its name, its an Android Desktop computer - only has 1GB.
>>> 
>>> Obviously I've not seen one of these machines but I can tell you that I 
>>> like stereo speakers on a device, they make the world of difference 

Re: Braille

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Jackie

Well said.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus 
Braille Transcription services.

On 25 Nov 2013, at 09:46, Jackie Brown thebrownspl...@btinternet.com wrote:

Hi Gordon

I agree.  It is quite frightening to see so many mistakes and a complete
absence of punctuation in even the most basic of messages these days.  You
can't beat good, old-fashioned Braille if you can read it, not just hoping
your speech synthesiser is saying the right thing! 


Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Twitter: @thebrownsplace
Skype: Thejackmate

-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith
Sent: 24 November 2013 17:14
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: Braille

Hi Jackie

In the interests of diplomacy, I won't pursue this discussion too far.
Suffice it to say that the overall standard of literacy and grammar these
days is utterly appalling.  That, I regret to say, is a trend which is set
to continue.  Those of us who had the basics drilled into us at school were
among the fortunate.  Computers and talking this, talking that and talking
the other are all fine in as far as they go.  They should not, however, be
viewed as a substitute for literacy.  Not, at least, amongst the very young.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus
Braille Transcription services.

On 16 Nov 2013, at 09:34, Jackie Brown thebrownspl...@btinternet.com
wrote:

You were taught Braille in the same era as myself, and with the same logic
at the time.  They claim now though to have these daft changes in place so
that it is easier with Braille translation software to have a unified code.
I don't get it personally, but there you go!



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus
and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille

[Jackie Brown]

Hi Gordon

I agree.  It is quite frightening to see so many mistakes and a complete
absence of punctuation in even the most basic of messages these days.  You
can't beat good, old-fashioned Braille if you can read it, not just hoping
your speech synthesiser is saying the right thing! 


Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Twitter: @thebrownsplace
Skype: Thejackmate

-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith
Sent: 24 November 2013 17:14
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: Braille

Hi Jackie

In the interests of diplomacy, I won't pursue this discussion too far.
Suffice it to say that the overall standard of literacy and grammar these
days is utterly appalling.  That, I regret to say, is a trend which is set
to continue.  Those of us who had the basics drilled into us at school were
among the fortunate.  Computers and talking this, talking that and talking
the other are all fine in as far as they go.  They should not, however, be
viewed as a substitute for literacy.  Not, at least, amongst the very young.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus
Braille Transcription services.

On 16 Nov 2013, at 09:34, Jackie Brown thebrownspl...@btinternet.com
wrote:

You were taught Braille in the same era as myself, and with the same logic
at the time.  They claim now though to have these daft changes in place so
that it is easier with Braille translation software to have a unified code.
I don't get it personally, but there you go!



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus
and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Jackie

In the interests of diplomacy, I won’t pursue this discussion too far.  Suffice 
it to say that the overall standard of literacy and grammar these days is 
utterly appalling.  That, I regret to say, is a trend which is set to continue. 
 Those of us who had the basics drilled into us at school were among the 
fortunate.  Computers and talking this, talking that and talking the other are 
all fine in as far as they go.  They should not, however, be viewed as a 
substitute for literacy.  Not, at least, amongst the very young.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus 
Braille Transcription services.

On 16 Nov 2013, at 09:34, Jackie Brown thebrownspl...@btinternet.com wrote:

You were taught Braille in the same era as myself, and with the same logic
at the time.  They claim now though to have these daft changes in place so
that it is easier with Braille translation software to have a unified code.
I don't get it personally, but there you go!



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Travis

British Braille has changed very much over the last 9 years or so.  UK Braille 
post-2004 is much like American Braille.  I have to know about this kind of 
thing now as it’s a major part of my job.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus 
Braille Transcription services.
On 18 Nov 2013, at 20:04, Travis Siegel tsie...@softcon.com wrote:

My understanding of the english vs. american braille is that your system uses 
the first possible contraction, regardless of where it falls in the word.  So, 
as you said, appear would have the ea symbol, followed by the r.  American 
braille doesn't break up sylabols, (though that doesn't hold in your example) 
but we'd use the ar symbol as you pointed out.
Unfortunately, I'm coming up blank on examples of english vs american braille 
for cross sylable splits, but I do remember seeing them when I read a book 
written in english braille many many years ago, and it confused me quite a bit 
until I got used to it. :)
I haven't read the specs for this universal braille yet, so can't comment on 
how it's doing things, but my understanding was that they wanted a single code 
to replace all the various systems, computer, nemeth, english, american, and 
foreign languages.  I'm not sure they've managed to cover all of those basis, 
especially since the whole computer braille code was specifically designed to 
be an exact 1 for 1 match for the ascii character set, and nemeth has it's own 
way of doing things, but if they've managed to pull it off, I'd be surprised.  
Are they planning next to unify the written alphabet as well, so russian, 
chineese, arabic and african languages all use the same set of symbols?  It's 
silly to contemplate such a thing, because each language has symbols denoting 
sounds in that particular language.  I submit braille codes served the same 
purpose, and except for the english vs american codes, I don't understand how 
they plan to squeeze all the others into a single unified code.  It's 
specifically because each code was designed for something different that made 
them the way they were, and throwing that all away, just because someone 
somewhere didn't like learning different codes seems silly to me, but then 
again, except for a short survey I participated in a couple years ago, nobody 
asked my opinion about it all, so what's a person to do?


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille

[Sarah k Alawami]

Don’t forget IPA. I have an article on IPA and how it is done in braille. I 
hope that won’t change should I need to one day do IPA in braille.  For those 
that want to know what IPA is look up the international  phonetic alphabet. It 
has helped my own diction a lot.

Tc all.
On Nov 18, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Travis Siegel tsie...@softcon.com wrote:

 My understanding of the english vs. american braille is that your system uses 
 the first possible contraction, regardless of where it falls in the word.  
 So, as you said, appear would have the ea symbol, followed by the r.  
 American braille doesn't break up sylabols, (though that doesn't hold in your 
 example) but we'd use the ar symbol as you pointed out.
 Unfortunately, I'm coming up blank on examples of english vs american braille 
 for cross sylable splits, but I do remember seeing them when I read a book 
 written in english braille many many years ago, and it confused me quite a 
 bit until I got used to it. :)
 I haven't read the specs for this universal braille yet, so can't comment on 
 how it's doing things, but my understanding was that they wanted a single 
 code to replace all the various systems, computer, nemeth, english, american, 
 and foreign languages.  I'm not sure they've managed to cover all of those 
 basis, especially since the whole computer braille code was specifically 
 designed to be an exact 1 for 1 match for the ascii character set, and nemeth 
 has it's own way of doing things, but if they've managed to pull it off, I'd 
 be surprised.  Are they planning next to unify the written alphabet as well, 
 so russian, chineese, arabic and african languages all use the same set of 
 symbols?  It's silly to contemplate such a thing, because each language has 
 symbols denoting sounds in that particular language.  I submit braille codes 
 served the same purpose, and except for the english vs american codes, I 
 don't understand how they plan to squeeze all the others into a single 
 unified code.  It's specifically because each code was designed for something 
 different that made them the way they were, and throwing that all away, just 
 because someone somewhere didn't like learning different codes seems silly to 
 me, but then again, except for a short survey I participated in a couple 
 years ago, nobody asked my opinion about it all, so what's a person to do?
 
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille

[Travis Siegel]

My understanding of the english vs. american braille is that your  
system uses the first possible contraction, regardless of where it  
falls in the word.  So, as you said, appear would have the ea symbol,  
followed by the r.  American braille doesn't break up sylabols,  
(though that doesn't hold in your example) but we'd use the ar symbol  
as you pointed out.
Unfortunately, I'm coming up blank on examples of english vs american  
braille for cross sylable splits, but I do remember seeing them when I  
read a book written in english braille many many years ago, and it  
confused me quite a bit until I got used to it. :)
I haven't read the specs for this universal braille yet, so can't  
comment on how it's doing things, but my understanding was that they  
wanted a single code to replace all the various systems, computer,  
nemeth, english, american, and foreign languages.  I'm not sure  
they've managed to cover all of those basis, especially since the  
whole computer braille code was specifically designed to be an exact 1  
for 1 match for the ascii character set, and nemeth has it's own way  
of doing things, but if they've managed to pull it off, I'd be  
surprised.  Are they planning next to unify the written alphabet as  
well, so russian, chineese, arabic and african languages all use the  
same set of symbols?  It's silly to contemplate such a thing, because  
each language has symbols denoting sounds in that particular  
language.  I submit braille codes served the same purpose, and except  
for the english vs american codes, I don't understand how they plan to  
squeeze all the others into a single unified code.  It's specifically  
because each code was designed for something different that made them  
the way they were, and throwing that all away, just because someone  
somewhere didn't like learning different codes seems silly to me, but  
then again, except for a short survey I participated in a couple years  
ago, nobody asked my opinion about it all, so what's a person to do?



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille

[Jackie Brown]

Hi Gordon

You were taught Braille in the same era as myself, and with the same logic
at the time.  They claim now though to have these daft changes in place so
that it is easier with Braille translation software to have a unified code.
I don't get it personally, but there you go!


Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Twitter: @thebrownsplace
Skype: Thejackmate

-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith
Sent: 15 November 2013 22:22
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: Braille

Hi Mary

I wish we had the backbone to maintain our own individuality in these
things.  RNIB just seems to go down on its benders when people come up with
these crazy suggestions.  Personally I don't see what's really been gained
by the adoption of UEB.  In many respects it just creates more work because
writing using UEB does away with some of the established rules we knew in
grade 2 (contracted) Braille.  Somebody once estimated that it would add an
average of an extra volume to a 4-volume book.  I thick that's a gross
over-estimate.  But maybe 10 or so pages would be more accurate.

But I'll give you an idea of the kind of rules which have changed since I
learned Braille way back in the swinging' sixties.

When you write a word such as Appear, it was a consistent rule that you
would always use the contraction which represented the letters which came
first in the word.  So, using that example, the word Appear would have
been written as A, p, p, E A sign, R.  Today, that same word would
be written as A, p, p, e, a r sign.

Now, the difference may seem churlish to some.  But on a broader scale, it's
quite a shift in policy.  Indeed, it changes much of the linguistic code we
were used too and I have no idea why it was changed.  To what purpose?  WAs
it the usual one, I wonder, to bring us into line with the US?  No offence
indented towards anybody in the US.  But why must we always follow what the
US does?  Are our law-makers just as much poodles as our politicians are?

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus
Braille Transcription services.

On 11 Nov 2013, at 14:06, Stores, Mary A. msto...@indiana.edu wrote:

The USD adopted the UEB last November, but they are keeping Nemeth Code
because, they say, it expresses Math better. So I think the differences in
math will still be an issue.


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus
and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Mary

I wish we had the backbone to maintain our own individuality in these things.  
RNIB just seems to go down on its benders when people come up with these crazy 
suggestions.  Personally I don’t see what’s really been gained by the adoption 
of UEB.  In many respects it just creates more work because writing using UEB 
does away with some of the established rules we knew in grade 2 (contracted) 
Braille.  Somebody once estimated that it would add an average of an extra 
volume to a 4-volume book.  I thick that’s a gross over-estimate.  But maybe 10 
or so pages would be more accurate.

But I’ll give you an idea of the kind of rules which have changed since I 
learned Braille way back in the swinging’ sixties.

When you write a word such as “Appear”, it was a consistent rule that you would 
always use the contraction which represented the letters which came first in 
the word.  So, using that example, the word “Appear” would have been written as 
“A”, “p”, “p”, “E A” sign, “R”.  Today, that same word would be written as “A”, 
“p”, “p”, “e”, “a r” sign.

Now, the difference may seem churlish to some.  But on a broader scale, it’s 
quite a shift in policy.  Indeed, it changes much of the linguistic code we 
were used too and I have no idea why it was changed.  To what purpose?  WAs it 
the usual one, I wonder, to bring us into line with the US?  No offence 
indented towards anybody in the US.  But why must we always follow what the US 
does?  Are our law-makers just as much poodles as our politicians are?

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---

gor...@mac-access.net

Information Technology Accessibility Consultant;
Providing Help  Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus 
Braille Transcription services.

On 11 Nov 2013, at 14:06, Stores, Mary A. msto...@indiana.edu wrote:

The USD adopted the UEB last November, but they are keeping Nemeth Code 
because, they say, it expresses Math better. So I think the differences in math 
will still be an issue.


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille

[Stores, Mary A.]

Hi Gordon,

An addendum: Please see 
http://www.brailleauthority.org/ueb/BANA-UEB-Nemeth-Report.doc which is a Word 
file explaining how why Nemeth Code was still chosen and how UEB and Nemeth can 
exist in the same document. There are .brf and .pdf files available at 
http://www.brailleauthority.org/ .

Mary


-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net 
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Stores, Mary A.
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:07 AM
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: RE: Braille

Hi Gordon,

The USD adopted the UEB last November, but they are keeping Nemeth Code 
because, they say, it expresses Math better. So I think the differences in math 
will still be an issue.

Mary



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille Displays and iOS Devices

[Dane Trethowan]

Okay, I'm not sure whether this comes anywhere to near addressing your problem.

You say you want to use your iPod Touch 4th Generation to manage your Dropbox 
account is that right? So do you have the Dropbox App on your iPod Touch? 
Without the App I don't think you're going to get to far smile.

Then of course there are Apps which can give you greater control over your 
dropbox, take the Filer App which is a complete File Manager that allows you 
to upload/download files to your Dropbox, download and open files from your 
Dropbox such as MP3 files etc.

As for using the Braille display with the iPod Touch? Well you're a little 
ahead of me there as I won't have my Focus 40 Blue until next week.


On 16/07/2013, at 7:02 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:

 Hi Everyone,
 
 This past Friday I received a Brailliant BI 40, and plan to use it mostly 
 with my iPod Touch 4th Generation.  I didn't have any trouble pairing up the 
 two with Bluetooth.  I realize that this is an entirely different approach 
 from using a dedicated Braille NoteTaker, but what I truly am hoping for is 
 some of the same functionality.  I do have a Dropbox account, and I suppose 
 this is the way I'll have to manage files, folders, and all of the things I 
 took for granted with my Braille Sense Plus.  My main computer is an iMac, 
 and so far, I'm not finding Dropbox to be that user friendly.  I have a 
 number of folders I'd love to have access to with my iPod and Brailliant for 
 the portability that could give me!  I'm feeling a little lost and sad right 
 now though, because this way of handling things is so unfamiliar to me!  So, 
 I guess my major question is:  are any of you using a Braille display with 
 your iOS devices in this way, and if so, how are you handling keeping your 
 files 
 on
  board your iOS device?  Thanks so much in advance for any help or 
 encouragement you can give me!  Does anyone know of any lists out there for 
 people who are taking this new approach to replacing a NoteTaker such as the 
 Braille Sense or BrailleNote?
 
 Desi
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---


**

Dane Trethowan
Skype: grtdane12
Phone US (213) 438-9741
Phone U.K. 01245 79 0598
Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589
Mobile: +61400494862
Fax +61397437954




===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille Displays and iOS Devices

[Desi Noller]

I do have the Dropbox App on my iPod.  I haven't had much experience using 
Dropbox on either my iMac or my iPod at this point.  I guess I'm trying to find 
out what others are doing.  Is Dropbox my best or only option?  Is there any 
kind of App that would allow me to store files and folders of documents on my 
iPod more similarly to the way I did on a NoteTaker?

Congratulations on getting your new Focus!

Desi



On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net wrote:

 Okay, I'm not sure whether this comes anywhere to near addressing your 
 problem.
 
 You say you want to use your iPod Touch 4th Generation to manage your Dropbox 
 account is that right? So do you have the Dropbox App on your iPod Touch? 
 Without the App I don't think you're going to get to far smile.
 
 Then of course there are Apps which can give you greater control over your 
 dropbox, take the Filer App which is a complete File Manager that allows 
 you to upload/download files to your Dropbox, download and open files from 
 your Dropbox such as MP3 files etc.
 
 As for using the Braille display with the iPod Touch? Well you're a little 
 ahead of me there as I won't have my Focus 40 Blue until next week.
 
 
 On 16/07/2013, at 7:02 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:
 
 Hi Everyone,
 
 This past Friday I received a Brailliant BI 40, and plan to use it mostly 
 with my iPod Touch 4th Generation.  I didn't have any trouble pairing up the 
 two with Bluetooth.  I realize that this is an entirely different approach 
 from using a dedicated Braille NoteTaker, but what I truly am hoping for is 
 some of the same functionality.  I do have a Dropbox account, and I suppose 
 this is the way I'll have to manage files, folders, and all of the things I 
 took for granted with my Braille Sense Plus.  My main computer is an iMac, 
 and so far, I'm not finding Dropbox to be that user friendly.  I have a 
 number of folders I'd love to have access to with my iPod and Brailliant for 
 the portability that could give me!  I'm feeling a little lost and sad right 
 now though, because this way of handling things is so unfamiliar to me!  So, 
 I guess my major question is:  are any of you using a Braille display with 
 your iOS devices in this way, and if so, how are you handling keeping your 
 files
  
 on
 board your iOS device?  Thanks so much in advance for any help or 
 encouragement you can give me!  Does anyone know of any lists out there for 
 people who are taking this new approach to replacing a NoteTaker such as the 
 Braille Sense or BrailleNote?
 
 Desi
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---
 
 
 **
 
 Dane Trethowan
 Skype: grtdane12
 Phone US (213) 438-9741
 Phone U.K. 01245 79 0598
 Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589
 Mobile: +61400494862
 Fax +61397437954
 
 
 
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille Displays and iOS Devices

[Dane Trethowan]

I've not played with the Dropbox App, I have a Dropbox account so it would make 
perfect sense I guess to download and install the App to see how it works 
smile.

On 16/07/2013, at 7:15 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:

 I do have the Dropbox App on my iPod.  I haven't had much experience using 
 Dropbox on either my iMac or my iPod at this point.  I guess I'm trying to 
 find out what others are doing.  Is Dropbox my best or only option?  Is there 
 any kind of App that would allow me to store files and folders of documents 
 on my iPod more similarly to the way I did on a NoteTaker?
 
 Congratulations on getting your new Focus!
 
 Desi
 
 
 
 On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net wrote:
 
 Okay, I'm not sure whether this comes anywhere to near addressing your 
 problem.
 
 You say you want to use your iPod Touch 4th Generation to manage your 
 Dropbox account is that right? So do you have the Dropbox App on your iPod 
 Touch? Without the App I don't think you're going to get to far smile.
 
 Then of course there are Apps which can give you greater control over your 
 dropbox, take the Filer App which is a complete File Manager that allows 
 you to upload/download files to your Dropbox, download and open files from 
 your Dropbox such as MP3 files etc.
 
 As for using the Braille display with the iPod Touch? Well you're a little 
 ahead of me there as I won't have my Focus 40 Blue until next week.
 
 
 On 16/07/2013, at 7:02 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:
 
 Hi Everyone,
 
 This past Friday I received a Brailliant BI 40, and plan to use it mostly 
 with my iPod Touch 4th Generation.  I didn't have any trouble pairing up 
 the two with Bluetooth.  I realize that this is an entirely different 
 approach from using a dedicated Braille NoteTaker, but what I truly am 
 hoping for is some of the same functionality.  I do have a Dropbox account, 
 and I suppose this is the way I'll have to manage files, folders, and all 
 of the things I took for granted with my Braille Sense Plus.  My main 
 computer is an iMac, and so far, I'm not finding Dropbox to be that user 
 friendly.  I have a number of folders I'd love to have access to with my 
 iPod and Brailliant for the portability that could give me!  I'm feeling a 
 little lost and sad right now though, because this way of handling things 
 is so unfamiliar to me!  So, I guess my major question is:  are any of you 
 using a Braille display with your iOS devices in this way, and if so, how 
 are you handling keeping your file
 s
 
 on
 board your iOS device?  Thanks so much in advance for any help or 
 encouragement you can give me!  Does anyone know of any lists out there for 
 people who are taking this new approach to replacing a NoteTaker such as 
 the Braille Sense or BrailleNote?
 
 Desi
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---
 
 
 **
 
 Dane Trethowan
 Skype: grtdane12
 Phone US (213) 438-9741
 Phone U.K. 01245 79 0598
 Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589
 Mobile: +61400494862
 Fax +61397437954
 
 
 
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---
 
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
 and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
 pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
 either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this 

Re: Dropbox was Re: Braille Displays and iOS Devices

[Desi Noller]

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much!  I was afraid you were going to say that!  LOL!  I haven't 
found launching Dropbox on my iMac to be very easy for me.  I'm running 
Mountain Lion and I have the latest version of Dropbox.  I know that I must go 
to the Extras menu and launch from there, but must use the mouse or enable the 
mouse buttons in order to do so.  I was even given some very good instructions 
for how to do this, but I'm not the most technologically inclined person, and 
it seems a little overwhelming to me right now!  I know in a couple of weeks I 
will wonder why all of this seemed so hard!  That's usually the way it goes 
anyway!

Desi



On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Chris christopher...@gmail.com wrote:

 You can certainly copy or move files to your Dropbox folder, but in order to 
 upload them the app must be running. Otherwise they will be uploaded the next 
 time the app is launched.
 On 15 Jul 2013, at 22:26, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:
 
 Dane, Is your DropBox account on an iMac by any chance?  I'm asking because 
 I find that there is a Dropbox folder in my Home folder on my system, and 
 I'm wondering if I can work from there on my Mac, or if I have to launch 
 Dropbox from the Extras menu to do things with it?
 
 Desi
 
 
 
 On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net wrote:
 
 I've not played with the Dropbox App, I have a Dropbox account so it would 
 make perfect sense I guess to download and install the App to see how it 
 works smile.
 
 On 16/07/2013, at 7:15 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:
 
 I do have the Dropbox App on my iPod.  I haven't had much experience using 
 Dropbox on either my iMac or my iPod at this point.  I guess I'm trying to 
 find out what others are doing.  Is Dropbox my best or only option?  Is 
 there any kind of App that would allow me to store files and folders of 
 documents on my iPod more similarly to the way I did on a NoteTaker?
 
 Congratulations on getting your new Focus!
 
 Desi
 
 
 
 On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net 
 wrote:
 
 Okay, I'm not sure whether this comes anywhere to near addressing your 
 problem.
 
 You say you want to use your iPod Touch 4th Generation to manage your 
 Dropbox account is that right? So do you have the Dropbox App on your 
 iPod Touch? Without the App I don't think you're going to get to far 
 smile.
 
 Then of course there are Apps which can give you greater control over 
 your dropbox, take the Filer App which is a complete File Manager that 
 allows you to upload/download files to your Dropbox, download and open 
 files from your Dropbox such as MP3 files etc.
 
 As for using the Braille display with the iPod Touch? Well you're a 
 little ahead of me there as I won't have my Focus 40 Blue until next week.
 
 
 On 16/07/2013, at 7:02 AM, Desi Noller desiandca...@q.com wrote:
 
 Hi Everyone,
 
 This past Friday I received a Brailliant BI 40, and plan to use it 
 mostly with my iPod Touch 4th Generation.  I didn't have any trouble 
 pairing up the two with Bluetooth.  I realize that this is an entirely 
 different approach from using a dedicated Braille NoteTaker, but what I 
 truly am hoping for is some of the same functionality.  I do have a 
 Dropbox account, and I suppose this is the way I'll have to manage 
 files, folders, and all of the things I took for granted with my Braille 
 Sense Plus.  My main computer is an iMac, and so far, I'm not finding 
 Dropbox to be that user friendly.  I have a number of folders I'd love 
 to have access to with my iPod and Brailliant for the portability that 
 could give me!  I'm feeling a little lost and sad right now though, 
 because this way of handling things is so unfamiliar to me!  So, I guess 
 my major question is:  are any of you using a Braille display with your 
 iOS devices in this way, and if so, how are you handling keeping your f
 i
 l
 e
 s
 
 on
 board your iOS device?  Thanks so much in advance for any help or 
 encouragement you can give me!  Does anyone know of any lists out there 
 for people who are taking this new approach to replacing a NoteTaker 
 such as the Braille Sense or BrailleNote?
 
 Desi
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
 virus and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
 web pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group 
 at either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---
 
 
 **
 
 Dane Trethowan
 Skype: grtdane12
 Phone US (213) 438-9741
 Phone U.K. 

Re: Braille display comparison?

[Gordon Smith]

I thoroughly recommend the Humanware displays, they are responsive and 
excellent.

Kind regards

--- Gordon Smith ---





gor...@mac-access.net

Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Mobile:
+44 7907 823971

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
/
+1 209 436 9443

Vic.  Australia:
+61 38 8205930
Vic.  Australia
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:
http://twitter.com/maciosaccess

Skype:
skype:mac-access-dot-net?call

--




On 1 Apr 2013, at 17:41, Mary Stores msto...@indiana.edu wrote:

Hi everyone,

For work we are looking into purchasing new braille displays, and I was 
wondering if any of you guys use a particular brand and think everyone else 
should, too. Or have you tried a particular braille display and advise your 
friends to stay away from it?

I am looking for a braille display that can be used with either Windows OS or 
an iPhone or Mac.

Any feedback would be appreciated,

Thanks.

Mary



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille display comparison?

[Øyvind Lode]

I have a HumanWare Brailliant BI 40 and I love it.
I use it with my iPhone but it's also supported by JAWS and NVDA.
I guess Window Eyes supports it as well but I don't use Window Eyes so I can't 
say that for sure.

-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net 
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mary Stores
Sent: 1. april 2013 18:42
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Braille display comparison?

Hi everyone,

For work we are looking into purchasing new braille displays, and I was 
wondering if any of you guys use a particular brand and think everyone else 
should, too. Or have you tried a particular braille display and advise your 
friends to stay away from it?

I am looking for a braille display that can be used with either Windows OS or 
an iPhone or Mac.

Any feedback would be appreciated,

Thanks.

Mary



===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille display comparison?

[Mary Stores]

Thanks for that. I appreciate it. I didn't want to biass anyone's 
opinions by telling you what the two braille display options on our 
list were, but that is one of them.


It seems better built than some of the the displays I've seen.

Mary

Quoting Øyvind Lode oyv...@lode.is:


I have a HumanWare Brailliant BI 40 and I love it.
I use it with my iPhone but it's also supported by JAWS and NVDA.
I guess Window Eyes supports it as well but I don't use Window Eyes
so I can't say that for sure.





===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

Re: Braille Devices Such as NoteTakers Etc.

[Martin McCormick]

I have never had such a device and there was a time when
it seemed like a very neat thing to have, but I am not sure that
Braille note takers are as necessary as they used to be, given
their rather high prices and specialized application.

How responsive is the iPad with a bluetooth keyboard?
One could use that to take notes plus all the other things we do
with tablet computers. The advantage would be that it is
off-the-shelf technology of the level we only used to dream
about.

Please understand that I am not at all saying that the
note takers are not useful but I am wondering if technology has
leap frogged over them. If the voiceover technology in the iPad
has the Braille support that the Macintosh voiceover does, you
could still interface with a Braille display. It is amazing to
think that we live in a time where we could buy a device in a
normal public technology store that has 90% of the technology
needed to function as a note taker for a person who is blind. If
you don't need the Braille display, it has 100% of the necessary
technology.

When I break down and buy an iPad, it will probably be
for just such applications besides being a book reader and a
whole bunch of other things.

This is all very individualized technology depending a
lot on what you hope to use it for and what your needs are so I
could be way off base. This is just one person's opinion.

Martin

Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith writes:
 Hello everybody
 
 I'm seriously looking at this situation now. Has anybody used, or does 
 anybody use the current generation of BrailleNote note-takers from 
 HumanWare? I am asking because, as some of you might know, it looks as 
 though Gordon is in line for a job working as, amongst other things, a 
 Braille transcriber for a secondary school's Visually Impaired department 
 in Middlesbrough. He might also be given the responsibility of acting as 
 a liaison officer between parents and the academy in respect of equipment 
 and software that students use. Plus, on top o that, they are talking 
 about possibly arranging for Gordon to work towards a base level teaching 
 qualification which would allow him to participate in the tuition of the 
 visually impaired on the subject of I.T. He went for his first 
 preliminary informal interview, a tour of the V.I department at the 
 academy and a very long chat with the deputy head, (soon to be head of 
 department). The interview went better than anybody had dared to hope
  for. and as I say, although they were initially only discussing 
 transcription work on a part-time basis, they are now looking seriously 
 at creating the other posts within the department as they say Gordon is 
 ideally suited for the job and he would be able to hit the ground 
 running, which is another huge plus.
 
 I'm sorry for the babbling; but I'm bursting with pride just at the 
 moment. Given his situation 6 months ago, everybody is saying that he has 
 made terrific progress and is now well on the road to recovery.
 
 Anyway, i'm curious as to whether any members may have comments regarding 
 the Humanware or similar note-takers. We think that something like this 
 might be necessary equipment for the job, and I want to have something 
 concrete so that when he's asked to put together a shopping list to 
 submit to Access To Work and the other support organisations who are 
 already assisting him, we'll have something ready for them.
 
 Open for comment, for better or for worse. ;-)
 
 Lynne
 
 
 ===
 
 The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
 virus and worm-free
 
 To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
 web pages located at
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
 
 You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group 
 at either of the following websites:
 
 http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
 
 Or:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
 you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml
 
 ---
 
 

===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---

RE: Braille Devices Such as NoteTakers Etc.

[Øyvind Lode - Forums]

Exactly.

I'am a very happy owner of a HumanWare Brailliant BI 40 which I have paired 
with my iPhone 4S via BlueTooth.

I read and compose email just using my Brailliant and it works great.
I read and compose text messages.
I use different text editors to take notes which are synced to all my devices 
like the PC etc.
In fact you can use all accessible apps just using your Braille device.
One more example is that I use my iPhone to control my Sonos sound system.
I have installed the Sonos Controller for iOS and when I listen to music on my 
Sonos connected to my hifi it's hard to listen to VO and control the music at 
the same time.
I always mute VO and can use my Brailliant to control the Sonos.
No need to mute my hifi to be able to hear VO on my iPhone just to be able to 
skip track, add a song to the playlist etc.

Braille support on iOS is working well but there are some shortcomings but I 
can't remember at the top of my head.

I really believe that Apple will have most if not all sorted out in iOS 6.

I have not tested using my iPhone and Brailliant to extensively note taking 
purposes though but I suspect it would work just fine. 

-Original Message-
From: techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net 
[mailto:techno-chat-boun...@techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Martin McCormick
Sent: 20. juli 2012 17:36
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: Braille Devices Such as NoteTakers Etc. 

I have never had such a device and there was a time when
it seemed like a very neat thing to have, but I am not sure that
Braille note takers are as necessary as they used to be, given
their rather high prices and specialized application.

How responsive is the iPad with a bluetooth keyboard?
One could use that to take notes plus all the other things we do
with tablet computers. The advantage would be that it is
off-the-shelf technology of the level we only used to dream
about.

Please understand that I am not at all saying that the
note takers are not useful but I am wondering if technology has
leap frogged over them. If the voiceover technology in the iPad
has the Braille support that the Macintosh voiceover does, you
could still interface with a Braille display. It is amazing to
think that we live in a time where we could buy a device in a
normal public technology store that has 90% of the technology
needed to function as a note taker for a person who is blind. If
you don't need the Braille display, it has 100% of the necessary
technology.

When I break down and buy an iPad, it will probably be
for just such applications besides being a book reader and a
whole bunch of other things.

This is all very individualized technology depending a
lot on what you hope to use it for and what your needs are so I
could be way off base. This is just one person's opinion.

Martin

Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith writes:
 Hello everybody
 
 I'm seriously looking at this situation now. Has anybody used, or does 
 anybody use the current generation of BrailleNote note-takers from 
 HumanWare? I am asking because, as some of you might know, it looks as 
 though Gordon is in line for a job working as, amongst other things, a 
 Braille transcriber for a secondary school's Visually Impaired department 
 in Middlesbrough. He might also be given the responsibility of acting as 
 a liaison officer between parents and the academy in respect of equipment 
 and software that students use. Plus, on top o that, they are talking 
 about possibly arranging for Gordon to work towards a base level teaching 
 qualification which would allow him to participate in the tuition of the 
 visually impaired on the subject of I.T. He went for his first 
 preliminary informal interview, a tour of the V.I department at the 
 academy and a very long chat with the deputy head, (soon to be head of 
 department). The interview went better than anybody had dared to hope
  for. and as I say, although they were initially only discussing 
 transcription work on a part-time basis, they are now looking seriously 
 at creating the other posts within the department as they say Gordon is 
 ideally suited for the job and he would be able to hit the ground 
 running, which is another huge plus.
 
 I'm sorry for the babbling; but I'm bursting with pride just at the 
 moment. Given his situation 6 months ago, everybody is saying that he has 
 made terrific progress and is now well on the road to recovery.
 
 Anyway, i'm curious as to whether any members may have comments regarding 
 the Humanware or similar note-takers. We think that something like this 
 might be necessary equipment for the job, and I want to have something 
 concrete so that when he's asked to put together a shopping list to 
 submit to Access To Work and the other support organisations who are 
 already assisting him, we'll have something ready for them.
 
 Open for comment, for better or for worse. ;-)
 
 Lynne

Re: Braille Devices Such as NoteTakers Etc.

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Martin

On 20 Jul 2012, at 16:35, Martin McCormick mar...@x.it.okstate.edu wrote:

•   I have never had such a device and there was a time when
it seemed like a very neat thing to have, but I am not sure that
Braille note takers are as necessary as they used to be, given
their rather high prices and specialized application.

I've always believed that, yes.  But having done the tour of the V.I. 
department at the academy where I may be working, I'm having second thoughts 
about the use of one of those devices in an academic environment.

How responsive is the iPad with a bluetooth keyboard?

Extremely, but that's not at all the same type of solution.  For a start you 
get Braille and speech here with the NoteTaker.  I think it talks anyway or if 
not, it can certainly be used as a display when connected to a Mac or PC.  So 
comparing it to an iPad with an external keyboard is not at all comparing like 
with like.

One could use that to take notes plus all the other things we do
with tablet computers. The advantage would be that it is
off-the-shelf technology of the level we only used to dream
about.

True. but as I said, Braille is the crucial factor here.  Consider, Martin.  
You're in a learning environment and suddenly you have all these iPads 
chattering away at you.  How distractive would that be?  No, I don't think 40 
of those talking at the same time would be practical.  Also, as I keep saying, 
there is no substitute for actually being able to proof read one's work with 
Braille.  The refreshable display is, whilst still very expensive, an 
irreplaceable item in my humble opinion.

Please understand that I am not at all saying that the note takers are 
not useful but I am wondering if technology has
leap frogged over them. If the voiceover technology in the iPad has the Braille 
support that the Macintosh voiceover does, you
could still interface with a Braille display. It is amazing to
think that we live in a time where we could buy a device in a
normal public technology store that has 90% of the technology
needed to function as a note taker for a person who is blind. If
you don't need the Braille display, it has 100% of the necessary
technology.

Yes, but you'd sill have to shell out nearly as much for a 40 cell display, for 
instance.  I agree regarding the technologies to a point.  I also agree that 
it's a pain that they all run Windows CE which introduces obvious limitations.  
But in an educational environment, I can certainly understand why they are used 
so widely.

Also, again, linking the iPad is fine but you're just as restricted in some 
ways.  For instance it would be a learning curve for the kids just to have them 
familiarise themselves with the touch-screen.  Wednesday has made me think 
again about these notetakers, and I'm starting to think that perhaps they 
aren't such a bad thing after all.  I still ayer on the side of main stream 
technologies where possible.  But sometimes, it just isn't possible.

When I break down and buy an iPad, it will probably be for just such 
applications besides being a book reader and a
whole bunch of other things.

Again, put yourself in the place of a young student.  That was the mistake I 
made until Wednesday.  I didn't see it from that angle.

This is all very individualized technology depending a lot on what you 
hope to use it for and what your needs are so I
could be way off base. This is just one person's opinion.

I think that your comments are valid, to a point.  But the kids find them 
easier and also the 8-cell keyboard has its merits too.

Gordon


===

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web 
pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
either of the following websites:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html

Or:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat@techno-chat.net/maillist.xml

---