Re: [Tex-music] little things

[Andre Van Ryckeghem]

Thank you Don, for giving all this information.
I knew that no 4. was something i overlooked, but i did not found how to 
solve. I never thought it was that simple.


Andre
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- 
From: Don Simons

Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 8:17 PM
To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
Subject: Re: [Tex-music] little things

It's been interesting and a little frustrating looking into the 4 "features"
Andre identified. Most of the frustration is from a combination of my fading
memory and insufficient commenting in the PMX code, making it very difficult
to reconstruct PMX's internal logic. But here's where I stand on the 4
issues:

1. It's true that midi-only accidentals on chord notes can cause unneeded
space. But in this case the midi-only accidentals are unnecessary; PMX does
enforce "inherited" accidentals from earlier in the bar. So the solution
here is to remove the midi-only accidentals. At the moment I don't plan any
code changes.

2. The 'Cb' was entered in voice 1, while the sixteenths that cause the
crowding are in voice 2. Long ago I decided never to automagically add any
extra space in one voice due to crashes with anything in the other
voice...the coding is just too complicated. The solution here is either to
manually enter the space as Andre did, or to enter the 16ths in voice 1
(with forced up-beams) and put the dotted quarters in voice 2 (with forced
down-stems).

3. In bar 9, PMX uses \lpz and \lst, because dots and tenutos on upstemmed
notes by default go below the note. But to avoid crashes with staff or
ledger lines, these commands will not allow ornaments at certain heights
within or above the staff. Some day I may introduce some PMX logic to get
around this restriction in cases like this, but for now I suggest simply
using inline TeX to emplace the dot with \upz, or the tenuto with \lst, or
both (and as always with inline TeX, use numerical arguments for the
pitches).

4. Doesn't "f4x3d f f" do what you want?

--Don


-Original Message-
From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre
Van Ryckeghem
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:29 AM
To: Werner Icking Music Archive <tex-music@tug.org>
Subject: [Tex-music] little things

Sorry to be here again, people will think i am searching for odds but this

is not

true, I simply type a lot of songs.
The example shows little odds that can be corrected, but perhaps there are
people who want to know.

1. In the first bar, the hidden accidentals reserve space. This is

corrected in

the second bar by using 'zcf<0 '
In bar 3 and 4  it does not work because  'af<0i' gives an error.

2. In line 2 i have to make room for a 'Cb'. To see what i ment, remove

'X2 XS-

2'

3. in bar 8 the dot and undercore have a good distance. In bar 9 i cannot

bring

them closer to each other.

4. Triplet with dotted first note. I try to make the first trio, but there

is no

easy way to do it (here i think overlook something).

===
1 1 6 8 6 8  0 0 1 3 20 0

t
./
Apb
r8+6 a8n+ o.+5 o_ zff zefi ffi zefi zcf efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi
r8+zffi
ze /
r8+6 a8n+ o.+6 o_+1 zff zefi ffi zefi
%void space made by efi
zcf<0
efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi zffi ze /
%
r8 b8++f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi afi zdf za+fi ffi zdfi
zff- ] r
%cannot use 'af<0i'
r8 b8+f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi af<0 zdf<0 za+f<0 ff zdf<0
zff- ] r /

L2

f4+fd end Cb XS1 e2--d  XS1 bd zb+  //
f1+f af df afi dfi afi en gn cn g c
%making room for Cb
X2 XS-2 g
e1-- b+ e f g b d b a b a f  b- d f a b d f d b d b a /
L3
a4n o.+9 o_+10 ff o.+10 o_+12 d o.+12 o_+14 %cannot get the dot close to
the tenuto, as in 1st bar
cf+ o.+9 o_+11 a o.+10 o_+12 ffi o.+12 o_+14 /

%try to make 'f4Fx3 f f' is made by
[m1 f4Fx4n f f ]
f4Fx4 f f
f4x3 f f
/
===

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Re: [Tex-music] little things

[Don Simons]

I wrote

>... Some day I may introduce some PMX logic to get around this
> restriction in cases like this, but for now I suggest simply using inline
TeX to
> emplace the dot with \upz, or the tenuto with \lst...

Of course I should have written \ust .

--Don

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Re: [Tex-music] little things

[Don Simons]

It's been interesting and a little frustrating looking into the 4 "features"
Andre identified. Most of the frustration is from a combination of my fading
memory and insufficient commenting in the PMX code, making it very difficult
to reconstruct PMX's internal logic. But here's where I stand on the 4
issues:

1. It's true that midi-only accidentals on chord notes can cause unneeded
space. But in this case the midi-only accidentals are unnecessary; PMX does
enforce "inherited" accidentals from earlier in the bar. So the solution
here is to remove the midi-only accidentals. At the moment I don't plan any
code changes.

2. The 'Cb' was entered in voice 1, while the sixteenths that cause the
crowding are in voice 2. Long ago I decided never to automagically add any
extra space in one voice due to crashes with anything in the other
voice...the coding is just too complicated. The solution here is either to
manually enter the space as Andre did, or to enter the 16ths in voice 1
(with forced up-beams) and put the dotted quarters in voice 2 (with forced
down-stems).

3. In bar 9, PMX uses \lpz and \lst, because dots and tenutos on upstemmed
notes by default go below the note. But to avoid crashes with staff or
ledger lines, these commands will not allow ornaments at certain heights
within or above the staff. Some day I may introduce some PMX logic to get
around this restriction in cases like this, but for now I suggest simply
using inline TeX to emplace the dot with \upz, or the tenuto with \lst, or
both (and as always with inline TeX, use numerical arguments for the
pitches).

4. Doesn't "f4x3d f f" do what you want? 

--Don

> -Original Message-
> From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre
> Van Ryckeghem
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:29 AM
> To: Werner Icking Music Archive 
> Subject: [Tex-music] little things
> 
> Sorry to be here again, people will think i am searching for odds but this
is not
> true, I simply type a lot of songs.
> The example shows little odds that can be corrected, but perhaps there are
> people who want to know.
> 
> 1. In the first bar, the hidden accidentals reserve space. This is
corrected in
> the second bar by using 'zcf<0 '
> In bar 3 and 4  it does not work because  'af<0i' gives an error.
> 
> 2. In line 2 i have to make room for a 'Cb'. To see what i ment, remove
'X2 XS-
> 2'
> 
> 3. in bar 8 the dot and undercore have a good distance. In bar 9 i cannot
bring
> them closer to each other.
> 
> 4. Triplet with dotted first note. I try to make the first trio, but there
is no
> easy way to do it (here i think overlook something).
> 
> ===
> 1 1 6 8 6 8  0 0 1 3 20 0
> 
> t
> ./
> Apb
> r8+6 a8n+ o.+5 o_ zff zefi ffi zefi zcf efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi
> r8+zffi
> ze /
> r8+6 a8n+ o.+6 o_+1 zff zefi ffi zefi
> %void space made by efi
> zcf<0
> efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi zffi ze /
> %
> r8 b8++f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi afi zdf za+fi ffi zdfi
> zff- ] r
> %cannot use 'af<0i'
> r8 b8+f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi af<0 zdf<0 za+f<0 ff zdf<0
> zff- ] r /
> 
> L2
> 
> f4+fd end Cb XS1 e2--d  XS1 bd zb+  //
> f1+f af df afi dfi afi en gn cn g c
> %making room for Cb
> X2 XS-2 g
> e1-- b+ e f g b d b a b a f  b- d f a b d f d b d b a /
> L3
> a4n o.+9 o_+10 ff o.+10 o_+12 d o.+12 o_+14 %cannot get the dot close to
> the tenuto, as in 1st bar
> cf+ o.+9 o_+11 a o.+10 o_+12 ffi o.+12 o_+14 /
> 
> %try to make 'f4Fx3 f f' is made by
> [m1 f4Fx4n f f ]
> f4Fx4 f f
> f4x3 f f
> /
> ===
> 
> ---
> TeX-music@tug.org mailing list
> If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music

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Re: [Tex-music] little things

[Andre Van Ryckeghem]

It is curious, The first line i got back from the archive was (broken but 
still working):


r8+6 a8n+ o.+5 o_ zff zefi ffi zefi zcf efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi zffi
ze /

Andre
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- 
From: Don Simons

Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:53 PM
To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
Subject: Re: [Tex-music] little things

Andre, you have nothing to be sorry about. All of these items are news to
me, and could be fixed by better coding inside PMX. I'll be looking into
them.

But I am curious how you got your source compiled with "r8+zffi" in the
first bar...I just removed it.

--Don


-Original Message-
From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre
Van Ryckeghem
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:29 AM
To: Werner Icking Music Archive <tex-music@tug.org>
Subject: [Tex-music] little things

Sorry to be here again, people will think i am searching for odds but this

is not

true, I simply type a lot of songs.
The example shows little odds that can be corrected, but perhaps there are
people who want to know.

1. In the first bar, the hidden accidentals reserve space. This is

corrected in

the second bar by using 'zcf<0 '
In bar 3 and 4  it does not work because  'af<0i' gives an error.

2. In line 2 i have to make room for a 'Cb'. To see what i ment, remove

'X2 XS-

2'

3. in bar 8 the dot and undercore have a good distance. In bar 9 i cannot

bring

them closer to each other.

4. Triplet with dotted first note. I try to make the first trio, but there

is no

easy way to do it (here i think overlook something).

===
1 1 6 8 6 8  0 0 1 3 20 0

t
./
Apb
r8+6 a8n+ o.+5 o_ zff zefi ffi zefi zcf efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi
r8+zffi
ze /
r8+6 a8n+ o.+6 o_+1 zff zefi ffi zefi
%void space made by efi
zcf<0
efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi zffi ze /
%
r8 b8++f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi afi zdf za+fi ffi zdfi
zff- ] r
%cannot use 'af<0i'
r8 b8+f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi af<0 zdf<0 za+f<0 ff zdf<0
zff- ] r /

L2

f4+fd end Cb XS1 e2--d  XS1 bd zb+  //
f1+f af df afi dfi afi en gn cn g c
%making room for Cb
X2 XS-2 g
e1-- b+ e f g b d b a b a f  b- d f a b d f d b d b a /
L3
a4n o.+9 o_+10 ff o.+10 o_+12 d o.+12 o_+14 %cannot get the dot close to
the tenuto, as in 1st bar
cf+ o.+9 o_+11 a o.+10 o_+12 ffi o.+12 o_+14 /

%try to make 'f4Fx3 f f' is made by
[m1 f4Fx4n f f ]
f4Fx4 f f
f4x3 f f
/
===

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Re: [Tex-music] little things

[Don Simons]

Andre, you have nothing to be sorry about. All of these items are news to
me, and could be fixed by better coding inside PMX. I'll be looking into
them.

But I am curious how you got your source compiled with "r8+zffi" in the
first bar...I just removed it.

--Don

> -Original Message-
> From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre
> Van Ryckeghem
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:29 AM
> To: Werner Icking Music Archive 
> Subject: [Tex-music] little things
> 
> Sorry to be here again, people will think i am searching for odds but this
is not
> true, I simply type a lot of songs.
> The example shows little odds that can be corrected, but perhaps there are
> people who want to know.
> 
> 1. In the first bar, the hidden accidentals reserve space. This is
corrected in
> the second bar by using 'zcf<0 '
> In bar 3 and 4  it does not work because  'af<0i' gives an error.
> 
> 2. In line 2 i have to make room for a 'Cb'. To see what i ment, remove
'X2 XS-
> 2'
> 
> 3. in bar 8 the dot and undercore have a good distance. In bar 9 i cannot
bring
> them closer to each other.
> 
> 4. Triplet with dotted first note. I try to make the first trio, but there
is no
> easy way to do it (here i think overlook something).
> 
> ===
> 1 1 6 8 6 8  0 0 1 3 20 0
> 
> t
> ./
> Apb
> r8+6 a8n+ o.+5 o_ zff zefi ffi zefi zcf efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi
> r8+zffi
> ze /
> r8+6 a8n+ o.+6 o_+1 zff zefi ffi zefi
> %void space made by efi
> zcf<0
> efi zcfi zaf cfi zafi zff afi zffi ze /
> %
> r8 b8++f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi afi zdf za+fi ffi zdfi
> zff- ] r
> %cannot use 'af<0i'
> r8 b8+f o> zdf- zbf [l-1 b4+fix3nf-2 zdfi- zbfi af<0 zdf<0 za+f<0 ff zdf<0
> zff- ] r /
> 
> L2
> 
> f4+fd end Cb XS1 e2--d  XS1 bd zb+  //
> f1+f af df afi dfi afi en gn cn g c
> %making room for Cb
> X2 XS-2 g
> e1-- b+ e f g b d b a b a f  b- d f a b d f d b d b a /
> L3
> a4n o.+9 o_+10 ff o.+10 o_+12 d o.+12 o_+14 %cannot get the dot close to
> the tenuto, as in 1st bar
> cf+ o.+9 o_+11 a o.+10 o_+12 ffi o.+12 o_+14 /
> 
> %try to make 'f4Fx3 f f' is made by
> [m1 f4Fx4n f f ]
> f4Fx4 f f
> f4x3 f f
> /
> ===
> 
> ---
> TeX-music@tug.org mailing list
> If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music

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