Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
I have not been involved in this project but have had pcbs from eastern sources supplied to RoHS. Some have come in with bare copper pads. I wonder if the reason for this may be that their standard process was not tinning, but it was a a solder-flow stage, and they still have lead-tin solder baths. So they avoid the one proces involving lead to produce an RoHS produce. Other manufactures happily produce compliant tinned pcbs. I found the use of a flux pen was adequate to ensure even lead-free manual soldering even after the board had been in store for several months. Could there maybe be a thin flux coating over the pads which is cause the disquiet? Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU le...@wa5znu.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes I tried water, then isopropyl, but what worked was a quick cleaning with a white eraser. Leigh/WA5ZNU On 08/06/2010 08:15 AM, Ed Palmer wrote: You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an occasional splash of bright tin here and there, particularly on the back. The rest looks like oxidized copper. I haven't tried to solder them yet. Hope the rosin cuts through it. Ed Stanley Reynolds wrote: Please remove Pictic boards from envelopes when you receive them. Received a report that the tinning on the bottom of the board was discolored perhaps due to some contamination in the envelope. Will wrap boards in plastic wrap in the future. Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 6:01:59 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Could there maybe be a thin flux coating over the pads which is cause the disquiet? Alan G3NYK snip The boards had a uniform silver finish except for the green solder mask. I'm sure I would have noticed any brown tint while packing them. The brown tint must have occured in shipment. Sorry the choice of packing was my mistake and will be glad to make good anyone who needs replacment please email me off list. Stanley Stanley snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
In message 002501cb389e$8d851b10$4001a...@lark, Alan Melia writes: it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Quite a number of graphical tools, including various sorts of pencils, did indeed need reformulation to comply with RoHS. Pantone was not at all amused for instance. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Alan Melia wrote: Pencil?? only us oldies know what that is... it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Alan G3NYK I don't know that lead (as in the element) has ever been used in pencils.. I read a fascinating book on the history of the pencil a few years back.. it described how graphite (the mines of Cumberland were famous for graphite with good writing/drawing properties) was called plumbago (lead ore) because chemical analysis didn't really exist and the dense black substance seemed to resemble lead. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Hi Jim ...being ironic...see the smiley Alan - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Alan Melia wrote: Pencil?? only us oldies know what that is... it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Alan G3NYK I don't know that lead (as in the element) has ever been used in pencils.. I read a fascinating book on the history of the pencil a few years back.. it described how graphite (the mines of Cumberland were famous for graphite with good writing/drawing properties) was called plumbago (lead ore) because chemical analysis didn't really exist and the dense black substance seemed to resemble lead. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Nevertheless, there is a mention (with picture) of mine de plomb (=lead pencil) in the French version of Wikipedia: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_de_plomb They were extensively used in Antiquity (Egyptians, Greeks and Roman). But I don't think they have RoHS compliant problems ;-} Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Hi Jim ...being ironic...see the smiley Alan - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Alan Melia wrote: Pencil?? only us oldies know what that is... it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Alan G3NYK I don't know that lead (as in the element) has ever been used in pencils.. I read a fascinating book on the history of the pencil a few years back.. it described how graphite (the mines of Cumberland were famous for graphite with good writing/drawing properties) was called plumbago (lead ore) because chemical analysis didn't really exist and the dense black substance seemed to resemble lead. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Alan Melia wrote: Hi Jim ...being ironic...see the smiley Alan sorry... I was lubing my slip-stick with a pencil and didn't catch it.grin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
On 11/08/2010, Jean-Louis Oneto jean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr wrote: Nevertheless, there is a mention (with picture) of mine de plomb (=lead pencil) in the French version of Wikipedia: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_de_plomb They were extensively used in Antiquity (Egyptians, Greeks and Roman). But I don't think they have RoHS compliant problems ;-} But the real question is, did they used to have a nice little pink useful eraser at the end of their pencils so they could clean up their PCBs back then? Steve Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Hi Jim ...being ironic...see the smiley Alan - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Alan Melia wrote: Pencil?? only us oldies know what that is... it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Alan G3NYK I don't know that lead (as in the element) has ever been used in pencils.. I read a fascinating book on the history of the pencil a few years back.. it described how graphite (the mines of Cumberland were famous for graphite with good writing/drawing properties) was called plumbago (lead ore) because chemical analysis didn't really exist and the dense black substance seemed to resemble lead. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Steve wrote: They just need the simple application of the little pink eraser (I was going to say rubber :) at the end of a pencil and a bit of elbow grease to come up looking shiny and new. Alternatively, a quick dip in TarnX (thiourea tarnish remover) should brighten them right up. Note that TarnX contains a chemical (thiourea) that has been found by the State of California to be a carcinogen (Luckily, I don't live in CA. It's apparently not carcinogenic here.) One of the pink paste silver polishes on a wet sponge would probably also work, but could remove some of the tin -- though likely not as much as an eraser. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
On 11 August 2010 14:35, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: Steve wrote: They just need the simple application of the little pink eraser (I was going to say rubber :) at the end of a pencil and a bit of elbow grease to come up looking shiny and new. Alternatively, a quick dip in TarnX (thiourea tarnish remover) should brighten them right up. Note that TarnX contains a chemical (thiourea) that has been found by the State of California to be a carcinogen (Luckily, I don't live in CA. It's apparently not carcinogenic here.) One of the pink paste silver polishes on a wet sponge would probably also work, but could remove some of the tin -- though likely not as much as an eraser. Of course you could make it even more complicated. Design and build a spaceship, travel to the Moon, collect some of the abrasive dust from its surface, travel back, make the Moon dust into a paste and rub this on the board. Alternatively use a pencil eraser, no expensive, dangerous and messy chemicals to use, just the humble inexpensive pencil you probably have hanging around anyway. KISS Steve Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Steve wrote: Of course you could make it even more complicated. Design and build a spaceship, travel to the Moon, collect some of the abrasive dust from its surface, travel back, make the Moon dust into a paste and rub this on the board. Alternatively use a pencil eraser, no expensive, dangerous and messy chemicals to use, just the humble inexpensive pencil you probably have hanging around anyway. Don't see how using TarnX (which actually reverts the tarnish to metal without removing any) is making things complicated (nor expensive, or messy, or dangerous -- as long as you don't use it in California), but thanks for that perspective. And no, I don't have any pencils on the premises (but TarnX and paste silver polish are both readily to hand). Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Steve wrote: I really thought that Stanley had become far too apologetic over such a simple issue to deal with I agree absolutely. and the more we talk about the problem seems to put more pressure on him. I hadn't thought about that -- definitely not my intention. Crikey, I'm over the moon thankful to him and a few seconds polishing the oxide off the board with an eraser is hardly any imposition at all No imposition whatever, I'd say. Thank you, Stanley! You deserve nothing but our gratitude. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
I tried water, then isopropyl, but what worked was a quick cleaning with a white eraser. Leigh/WA5ZNU On 08/06/2010 08:15 AM, Ed Palmer wrote: You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an occasional splash of bright tin here and there, particularly on the back. The rest looks like oxidized copper. I haven't tried to solder them yet. Hope the rosin cuts through it. Ed Stanley Reynolds wrote: Please remove Pictic boards from envelopes when you receive them. Received a report that the tinning on the bottom of the board was discolored perhaps due to some contamination in the envelope. Will wrap boards in plastic wrap in the future. Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
Please remove Pictic boards from envelopes when you receive them. Received a report that the tinning on the bottom of the board was discolored perhaps due to some contamination in the envelope. Will wrap boards in plastic wrap in the future. Stanley Let me see first it was : Melamine in pet food Bad dry wall making people sick Now Bad envelopes ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an occasional splash of bright tin here and there, particularly on the back. The rest looks like oxidized copper. I haven't tried to solder them yet. Hope the rosin cuts through it. Ed Stanley Reynolds wrote: Please remove Pictic boards from envelopes when you receive them. Received a report that the tinning on the bottom of the board was discolored perhaps due to some contamination in the envelope. Will wrap boards in plastic wrap in the future. Stanley Let me see first it was : Melamine in pet food Bad dry wall making people sick Now Bad envelopes ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
In a message dated 06/08/2010 16:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, ed_pal...@sasktel.net writes: You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an occasional splash of bright tin here and there, particularly on the back. The rest looks like oxidized copper. I haven't tried to solder them yet. Hope the rosin cuts through it. - That's what I first thought when mine arrived but found that rubbing with a soft pencil eraser removed the discolouration to leave them looking tinned again. I did notice that some of the non discoloured tinning had a matt finish rather than shiny as expected so not sure if this was envelope contamination or a processing issue. After buffing with the eraser I washed the boards in warm soapy water just to be sure and they continue to look ok. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
The boards were PB free so the finish is a flat silver . My thinking is the envelopes are acidic and any moisture would cause a reaction. The boards were shipped to me vacuum sealed in plastic 25 boards per pack. They were not brown or discolored when I put them in the envelopes so what ever caused them to discolor happened while they were in transit. Stanley From: gandal...@aol.com gandal...@aol.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, August 6, 2010 10:23:02 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes In a message dated 06/08/2010 16:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, ed_pal...@sasktel.net writes: You mean they are tinned? I received my two boards a couple of days ago. I thought that they missed the tinning solution. There's just an occasional splash of bright tin here and there, particularly on the back. The rest looks like oxidized copper. I haven't tried to solder them yet. Hope the rosin cuts through it. - That's what I first thought when mine arrived but found that rubbing with a soft pencil eraser removed the discolouration to leave them looking tinned again. I did notice that some of the non discoloured tinning had a matt finish rather than shiny as expected so not sure if this was envelope contamination or a processing issue. After buffing with the eraser I washed the boards in warm soapy water just to be sure and they continue to look ok. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
