Re: coyote standalone?
Hi Adam. I always get headaches when I got into the Tomcat source base; its almost too abstract and I can't figure out what does what. There is a book that is comming out or may already be out that details Tomcat's internal architecture that I've been meaning to read. Why isn't Jetty enough for you? Brad At 02:55 PM 2/10/2005, you wrote: Can I use Coyote HTTP 1.1 server outside of the rest of tomcat? I'm interested in just plugging in the coyote jar for serving static content using Jetty, but it appears to have dependencies on the rest of tomcat. I don't want to use the rest of Tomcat due to size constraints. Thanks. -Adam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: coyote standalone?
Adam, sounds interesting. Can't wait to see the results. Feel free to keep talking with me if you have any more questions or ideas. By the way, I pushed out a first release of Paper Airplane last sunday. Check out the blog post and installation instructions on it at http://codinginparadise.org/weblog/2005/02/paper-airplane-011-released_06.html. It's still quite alpha but functional. Best, Brad At 04:19 PM 2/10/2005, you wrote: Hi Brad- The Jetty ResourceHandler works fine, but it's just a little clunky and unmaintainable. I already adapted their static resource handler to suite my needs, but there are lots of methods that are about 100 lines long and things like that. It does things like require a Jetty Resource instance that in turn requires an actual java.io.File, a requirement I'd prefer to avoid in certain cases. It works well and passes all my tests for Range requests and everything else with flying colors, but I'm looking for something slightly more elegant. It's also tied to the Jetty code pretty tightly. If I wanted to use it with some other framework, such as Spring, I'd have to refactor it quite a bit to only rely on plain on HttpServletRequests and HttpServletResponses. That's the path I'm currently planning on following, but I'm fishing around for a better solution. This is all to partially to implement my adaptation of your very elegant JXTA, Jetty, and HttpClient integration -- great stuff!! -Adam Brad Neuberg wrote: Hi Adam. I always get headaches when I got into the Tomcat source base; its almost too abstract and I can't figure out what does what. There is a book that is comming out or may already be out that details Tomcat's internal architecture that I've been meaning to read. Why isn't Jetty enough for you? Brad At 02:55 PM 2/10/2005, you wrote: Can I use Coyote HTTP 1.1 server outside of the rest of tomcat? I'm interested in just plugging in the coyote jar for serving static content using Jetty, but it appears to have dependencies on the rest of tomcat. I don't want to use the rest of Tomcat due to size constraints. Thanks. -Adam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Changing Stack Size in Tomcat 4.130
Hi Sweta. I assume you mean increase the stack size available to each thread. From http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/watt/jvm-options-list.html, which is a giant list of JVM options: -Xsssize - size - set maximum native stack size for any thread Also do a 'ulimit -a' to determine what your process constraints are on stack size; if you increase the stack size using the -Xss option but don't give your process permission to use that extra stack size you will get exceptions as well. Hope this works. Brad At 01:20 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: Hi, How would I go about increasing the stack size in Tomcat? Im gettig a StackOverflowError, thanks in advance. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html.
Re: Changing Stack Size in Tomcat 4.130
Keep in mind that I believe increasing the stack size too large can have performance implications. If I understand correctly each thread has a stack that stores process information so that as threads context switch in and out this information gets copied into and out of memory; if you increase the stack size more memory will have to get copied in and out, slowing down performance. Can folks correct me on this if I am wrong? Is this a correct understanding of the stack? Would this be a true bottleneck for performance? Thanks, Brad At 01:41 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: Hi Sweta. I assume you mean increase the stack size available to each thread. From http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/watt/jvm-options-list.html, which is a giant list of JVM options: -Xsssize - size - set maximum native stack size for any thread Also do a 'ulimit -a' to determine what your process constraints are on stack size; if you increase the stack size using the -Xss option but don't give your process permission to use that extra stack size you will get exceptions as well. Hope this works. Brad At 01:20 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: Hi, How would I go about increasing the stack size in Tomcat? Im gettig a StackOverflowError, thanks in advance. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Changing Stack Size in Tomcat 4.130
At 02:09 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: Sweta Kapadia wrote: Hi, How would I go about increasing the stack size in Tomcat? Im gettig a StackOverflowError, thanks in advance. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A lot of times when I see this I think about a loop running out of control. Are you getting this from tried and true code, and are you getting this when you are debugging (so to see what is going on)? Maybe put in some logging and things before you have to rearrange the stack size. Good call; maybe also analyze where you might be using recursion, and the recursive loop never bottoms out and therefore quickly blows the stack. Brad Wade - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of Memory Issues and Potential Fix
Forgot to mention that we are using Sun's JVM 1.4.2_06 on Linux (Debian 3.0r2, Kernel 2.6.4, i686 with NPTL threads enabled) using a Xeon system. At 11:18 AM 12/10/2004, Brad Neuberg wrote: Hi everyone. Over at the company I work for, Rojo, we've been having a variety of Out of Memory (OOM) issues. We have found some fixes that might be useful for other developers; at the same time we are still struggling with some classes of OOM issues as well. We've had several different OOM errors that are unrelated: 1) If you have a large scale web application with many JSP files, or an application that will generate a large amount of reflective objects (if it is using Hibernate for example), the default Permanent Generation and Max Permanent Generation settings on the JVM are not sufficient. By default these are 64 megabytes if you use the -server option for the JVM. In our own app, however, when all JSPs are compiled and loaded into memory, including the tremendous number of classes we have, our Permanent Generation stands around 150 megabytes! Setting -XX:+PermSize and -XX:+MaxPermSize to around 200 megabytes solved this particular issue; if you are getting out of memory issues with your application and you already have a large heap size that is not filling up then this might help you as well. We also now precompile our JSPs which helps a bit as well. 2) We were caching a large amount of search objects in each user's session objects; some of this data wasn't being let go fast enough, causing OOM issues. While we probably need to refactor this portion of our system using WeakReferences or something similar, we found a temporary workaround by setting session-timeout to 1 minute in tomcat/conf/web.xml; this will invalidate the user's session every minute. We don't force our users to sign back in because we store cookies with user information sufficient to transparently sign the user back in that get sent with each request. This is obviously a temporary hack and we need to solve our underlying data caching issues. Our final OOM issue is the following. We still get OOM issues with the above fixes in. I have set up VisualGC to get an understanding of how memory is partitioned in the heap. I have a screenshot of our VisualGC heap usage right after the OOM; I have put it on my webserver at: http://codinginparadise.org/images/outofmemory.png If you look at that graph, you will see that our Permanent, Old, and Eden spaces have more than enough memory. Are we running out of file or thread descriptors? Is it something outside of the JVM? Brad Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Out of Memory Issues and Potential Fix
Hi everyone. Over at the company I work for, Rojo, we've been having a variety of Out of Memory (OOM) issues. We have found some fixes that might be useful for other developers; at the same time we are still struggling with some classes of OOM issues as well. We've had several different OOM errors that are unrelated: 1) If you have a large scale web application with many JSP files, or an application that will generate a large amount of reflective objects (if it is using Hibernate for example), the default Permanent Generation and Max Permanent Generation settings on the JVM are not sufficient. By default these are 64 megabytes if you use the -server option for the JVM. In our own app, however, when all JSPs are compiled and loaded into memory, including the tremendous number of classes we have, our Permanent Generation stands around 150 megabytes! Setting -XX:+PermSize and -XX:+MaxPermSize to around 200 megabytes solved this particular issue; if you are getting out of memory issues with your application and you already have a large heap size that is not filling up then this might help you as well. We also now precompile our JSPs which helps a bit as well. 2) We were caching a large amount of search objects in each user's session objects; some of this data wasn't being let go fast enough, causing OOM issues. While we probably need to refactor this portion of our system using WeakReferences or something similar, we found a temporary workaround by setting session-timeout to 1 minute in tomcat/conf/web.xml; this will invalidate the user's session every minute. We don't force our users to sign back in because we store cookies with user information sufficient to transparently sign the user back in that get sent with each request. This is obviously a temporary hack and we need to solve our underlying data caching issues. Our final OOM issue is the following. We still get OOM issues with the above fixes in. I have set up VisualGC to get an understanding of how memory is partitioned in the heap. I have a screenshot of our VisualGC heap usage right after the OOM; I have put it on my webserver at: http://codinginparadise.org/images/outofmemory.png If you look at that graph, you will see that our Permanent, Old, and Eden spaces have more than enough memory. Are we running out of file or thread descriptors? Is it something outside of the JVM? Brad Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Does Tomcat 5.5 support jikes?
I remember I tried to get Tomcat to use Jikes and I followed the instructions (i.e. setting the correct parameters in conf/web.xml, there is a jikes parameter), but I had the sneaking suspicion it was ignored. :( At 01:58 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote: This isn't fun: !-- -- !-- If you wish to use Jikes to compile JSP pages: -- !-- Set the init parameter compiler to jikes. Define -- !-- the property -Dbuild.compiler.emacs=true when starting Tomcat-- !-- by adding the above to your CATALINA_OPTS environment variable.-- !-- If you get an error reporting that jikes can't use UTF8 encoding, -- !-- try setting the init parameter javaEncoding to ISO-8859-1. -- But I follow these instructions (as I did with Tomcat 5.0) and Tomcat 5.5 STILL uses jdtool! Any thoughts? -- Use Rojo (RSS/Atom aggregator). Visit http://rojo.com. Ask me for an invite! Also see irc.freenode.net #rojo if you want to chat. Rojo is Hiring! - http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, etc... then you should work for Rojo! If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA AIM/YIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 5FB2 F3E2 760E 70A8 6174 D393 E84D 8D04 99F1 4412 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brad Neuberg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks Weblog: http://www.codinginparadise.org = Check out Rojo, an RSS and Atom news aggregator that I work on. Visit http://rojo.com for more info. Feel free to ask me for an invite! Rojo is Hiring! If you're interested in RSS, Weblogs, Social Networking, Java, Open Source, etc... then come work with us at Rojo. If you recommend someone and we hire them you'll get a free iPod! See http://www.rojonetworks.com/JobsAtRojo.html. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug in trimSpaces?
I think I found a bug in the Tomcat's JSP compiler. In our app, its causing some of our CSS styles to be flaky when we set trimSpaces to be true. (To work around, we can just put something static in between the two adjacent EL expressions.) --- When trimSpaces is set to true: init-param param-nametrimSpaces/param-name param-valuetrue/param-value /init-param The following JSP code: div class=${style1} ${style2} evaluates to: div class=dynamicStyleFOOdynamicStyleBAR Notice that the space in between the two EL expressions is lost. I think that is probably a bug. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace
It seems like Tomcats JSP compiler produces _huge_ HTML pages, retaining all the white space in the original JSP file. When I view source I see a tremendous amount of white space with barely any tags. The file sizes are bloated by about three times. I have GZIP encoding on, but the white space makes it difficult for developers to step over the HTML produced to debug things. Does anyone know if there is a setting in Tomcat to reduce the amount of whitespace in generated HTML files from JSP? Thanks, Brad Neuberg Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace
Yoav, thanks; this works. One question; why isn't this true by default? Brad At 09:56 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: Hi, trimSpaces at http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-5.5-doc/jasper-howto.html. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Brad Neuberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace It seems like Tomcats JSP compiler produces _huge_ HTML pages, retaining all the white space in the original JSP file. When I view source I see a tremendous amount of white space with barely any tags. The file sizes are bloated by about three times. I have GZIP encoding on, but the white space makes it difficult for developers to step over the HTML produced to debug things. Does anyone know if there is a setting in Tomcat to reduce the amount of whitespace in generated HTML files from JSP? Thanks, Brad Neuberg Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace
At 10:47 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: Hola, I'm not a Jasper expert, my guess is for two reasons: - It's a slight performance hit True, but this at compile time when the JSP is compiled; thats a one time yet that is already slow due to the JSP being compiled. You should see how ugly these HTML files are without trimSpaces on. - There's a slight change of bugs or sub-optimal behavior. For example a subtle one was pointed out the other day: with trimSpaces on, ${something} followed by a space becomes just ${something} without a space after it. But for some HTML tags, e.g. img, and some browsers, this causes different display behavior. It seems better to turn it on and then isolate these bugs. Our Tomcat shop ran for months without knowing about the trimSpaces parameter. It seems like a hack to turn off trimSpaces by default rather than fix any bugs that might happen because it is on. Brad Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Brad Neuberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:45 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace Yoav, thanks; this works. One question; why isn't this true by default? Brad At 09:56 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: Hi, trimSpaces at http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-5.5-doc/jasper-howto.html. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Brad Neuberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace It seems like Tomcats JSP compiler produces _huge_ HTML pages, retaining all the white space in the original JSP file. When I view source I see a tremendous amount of white space with barely any tags. The file sizes are bloated by about three times. I have GZIP encoding on, but the white space makes it difficult for developers to step over the HTML produced to debug things. Does anyone know if there is a setting in Tomcat to reduce the amount of whitespace in generated HTML files from JSP? Thanks, Brad Neuberg Senior Software Engineer, Rojo Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSP Compiler produces huge HTML files with whitespace
At 10:49 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: it is not on by default due to spec issues. for tomcat to be strictly compliant, by default it should not strip the extra carriage returns. If you search the mailing list back to 2001-2002, you see there was lots of discussion about it. the funny thing is, it also makes it easy to tell when a website uses jsp tags. that's an easy way to figure out if a website is using a servlet container and jsp tags. That seems like a security issue to me. You can fingerprint a remote site and determine what technology they are using, even if they have taken steps to hide the JSP ending from their files. Brad peter On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:45:00 -0700, Brad Neuberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yoav, thanks; this works. One question; why isn't this true by default? Brad At 09:56 AM 9/8/2004, you wrote: Hi, trimSpaces at http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-5.5-doc/jasper-howto.html. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]