date:20051212





 I have gotten sucked into the world of TT

DAVEH: Like Dean, you'll be back! 
;-) 

 It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe
not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) 

DAVEH: As long as we don't invite Dean, it should turn out all
right.  :-D 

Christine Miller wrote:

  I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into
the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to
bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal.
May the Lord bless you and keep you all. 
  
   It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe
not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) 
  
-Christine Miller
  
   
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES

DAVEH:   Does that mean I should reconsider thinking of you as a 
hypocritical Christian?   :-)


Charles Perry Locke wrote:

I did and I do. But, with your aging selective memory, you probably 
would not recall that :-)


Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE 
FORUM HE MODERATES

Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:12:56 -0800

*There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and 
used ad-hominem references*


DAVEH:If you knew you did such Perry, then did you consider 
reprimanding yourself as you might reprimand another TTer for a 
similar transgression?IOWDo you hold yourself to the same 
standards as you would hold others?


Charles Perry Locke wrote:

As for my attacks on promoters of mormonism, I have explained that 
is is not the MESSENGER that I am attacking, but the ORIGINATOR of 
the messages. *There have been times when I have failed to make the 
distinction and used ad-hominem references*, but that certainly is 
not the rule with my anti-mormonism posts.






--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is
the very instrument of his defeat.

DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool
Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything
else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. 

 The resurrection was the defeat of deathand
Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising
from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you
should consider hanging a millstone about your neck..

 How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the
cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it
displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian
traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity?  Biblical
references would be appreciated.

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I
would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the
very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the
cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them,
it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the
tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of
that when I see a beehive.
  
  
Perry
  
  */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*


DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with
Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've
seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite
often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of
cemeteries.where they are buried...





..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have
idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus.




...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in
their abodes and places of worship.




.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to
bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also
the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This
inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but
at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and
degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have
such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering
and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who
were victims of it.


 I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar,
Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this
discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use
a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that
the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of
jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind
you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if
you drove by a gun  knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives
that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it
bring back fond memories?


 LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf.
But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think
of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to
one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many
others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his
Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.


 FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years
ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at
night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by
on the freeway


http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm


.This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to
the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at
quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel
that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that
memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he
would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that
some would pain him in such a callous way.



Kevin Deegan wrote:


Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.
  
*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how
art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For
thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt
my throne above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of
the congregation, in the sides of the north:...*
  
*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.*
  
*North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. *
  
*/

Dave scripture is understood in the light of other
scripture and calling it the tree of death does not change anything
What was the result of their partaking of it? God
said "In the day you eat you shall surely die" They ate and
they
immediately lost fellowship with the source of life and
light. That day they died spiritually and became mortal, that
is, they began to die physically as well. So how
is calling this tree a tree of death spinning anything? You
think
death and dying are a good thing - rather than an enemy
that has caused mankind to live in fear from that time on?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:27:30 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

AE rejected it in favor of the tree of
deathDAVEH: I find it interesting that you changed
the terminology of the Bible regarding the tree of knowledge of good and
evil, Judy. It seems like you are purposely spinning what the
Bible said to promote your own bias by referring to it as a tree of death. Why would you call it a tree of death when the Lord called it a tree of
knowledge? Do you have a particular reason for your aversion to
the Lord's nomenclature regarding the tree of knowledge of good and
evil?Judy Taylor wrote:

God's wisdom is a tree of life JD
AE rejected it in favor of the tree of
death

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:38:42 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So, you decided to ignore my comment about the Tree of
Life?Adam and Eve were not given any restrictions
concerningeating from this tree. What do you suppose
would be the result of eating from such fruit? I say
"continued life." jd
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross






On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:56 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the 
  very instrument of his defeat.DAVEH: Really? As 
  I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture 
  and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the 
  cross did the job. 
  
  Only because He willingly layed His life 
  down. If He had not done that nothing could have killedHim, the 
  Lord of Life. ad there would 
  have been no resurrection without a death. Satan didn't know what he was 
  doing - he acted inignorance 
  which must have been a blow to his pride (1 Cor 2:6-8) 
  judyt The resurrection 
  was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone 
  blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's 
  defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about 
  your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the 
  Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it 
  into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are 
  those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical 
  validity?  Biblical references would be appreciated.Charles 
  Perry Locke wrote: 
  I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would 
expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very 
instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a 
symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good 
enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice 
Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. 
Perry 
*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* 
  DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion 
  with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as 
  I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. 
  Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case 
  of cemeteries.where they are buried... 
  ..In the past couple thousand years, many 
  Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. 
  ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not 
  macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and 
  displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. 
  .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel 
  tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved 
  Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our 
  Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's 
  children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating 
  and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would 
  have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, 
  suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to 
  those who were victims of it.  I'm curious as to how 
  you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you 
  have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you 
  do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your 
  daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would 
  you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck 
  in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your 
  daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun  knife 
  store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that 
  killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? 
   LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord 
  in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. 
  It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, 
  suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we 
  idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to 
  remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the 
  resurrection of his Son.  FWIW.We have a large 
  Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent 
  crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that 
  are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway 
  http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm 
  .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared 
  to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at 
  quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel 
  that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that 
  memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if 
  he would wince at such a sight.

RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM 
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


Then theres the stuff that stinks..
cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


To let it lie there, I think. 

cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz
cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz
cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









- Original Message - 

From: Dave Hansen 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM 

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox



DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily



cd:Taking youyour anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to mydwelling placemy friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: 




\Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad.



 cd:True prophet? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell boundunrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church.




-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

[TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)




Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be 
said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this?

Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of 
course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
  equinox
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM 
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
equinox


Then theres the 
stuff that stinks..
cd: How can 
searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the 
anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only 
discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot?





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Dean 
MooreSent: Sunday, 
December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
equinox









  
  - 
  Original Message - 
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  
  Sent: 12/11/2005 
  12:00:57 PM 
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
  
  
  To let it lie 
  there, I think. 
  
  cd: But a pot of 
  chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for 
  all to enjoy.
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
  Autumn equinox
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

- 
Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 


To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 
12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM 

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


I think we got 
it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz
cd: Chicken? 
What was the conclusion?





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 
8:07 AMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
Autumn equinox









  
  - 
  Original Message - 
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  
  Sent: 
  12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM 
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
  
  
  Yes, welcome 
  back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat 
  up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz
  cd: Thanks 
  izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to 
  take it up-with the rational minded.
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean 
  MooreSent: Sunday, 
  December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
  Autumn equinox
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

- Original Message 
- 

From: 
Dave 
Hansen 

To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 
12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM 

Subject: 
Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
equinox



DAVEH: 
Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am 
glad you have returnedeven if only 
temporarily



cd:Taking 
youyour anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome 
as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to mydwelling 
placemy friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and 
we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore 
wrote: 

  
  
  
  \Your 
  author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on

Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/12/2005 12:58:18 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


In a message dated 12/11/2005 1:42:13 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Then theres the stuff that stinks..

The more you stir it, the worse it stinks, too.
Blainerb

cd: See izzy point proven-should we be afraidto make the babys and the lost to cry out "this stinks".

Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox 

In a message dated 12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

For instance???
Blainerb
cd: Such as "depending on how tight the leather is"-and other sexual references-just showing your heart that is coming out of your mouth-the same as your prophet-defiled.

Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a naughty conclusion, Dean, not me. Is this an example of the eye with the beamwanting to remove the mote? Let me see, weren't you also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were getting all "oiled up.?" :)
cd: Actually that was Kevin who asked a high priests if he had put oil on any new brides lately-Case in point the Mormons get to put (with their hands) oil on the entire surface of the naked bodies on all young brides who get married in the temple. We tell them this is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover his own sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I hate.

RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/12/2005 6:50:40 AM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] Almost(s)  Anti(s)

Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this?

Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. 
cd: Not sure what you as accreting Lance-If I answer without knowing you may cry to the Moderator that I am mean to you-this is after you told me to leave when I first can on this site-Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thingtheyare doing..

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox







- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM 
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


Then theres the stuff that stinks..
cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


To let it lie there, I think. 

cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz
cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox










- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM 

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz
cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









- Original Message - 

From: Dave Hansen 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM 

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox



DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily



cd:Taking youyour anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to mydwelling placemy friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: 




\Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad.



 cd:True prophet? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell boundunrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church.




-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

[TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION




IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? 
IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 06:55
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
  equinox 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
equinox 

In a message dated 12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  For instance???
  Blainerb
  cd: Such as "depending on how tight the leather is"-and other sexual 
  references-just showing your heart that is coming out of your mouth-the 
  same as your prophet-defiled.

Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a naughty conclusion, Dean, not 
me. Is this an example of the eye with the 
beamwanting to remove the mote? Let me see, weren't you 
also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were getting all 
"oiled up.?" :)
cd: Actually that was Kevin who asked a high priests if he had 
put oil on any new brides lately-Case in point the Mormons get to put (with 
their hands) oil on the entire surface of the naked bodies on all young 
brides who get married in the temple. We tell them this is wrong. Correct me 
if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover his own 
sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I 
hate.

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




How many meanings do you think it has 
Lance?
Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to 
form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to 
actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of
HIS WORD

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK 
  THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand you both, 
  you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) 
  of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are 
  both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?)
  
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 

My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into 
another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see 
what
God has to say about it ... Those prophets 
are messing with your head.

1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of 
wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual 
or thatfrom above.

1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the 
world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased 
through the (incarnation)? ...foolishness 
of the message preached to save those who 
believe"

There is a natural body and there is a spiritual 
body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that 
is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
There are people who are spiritually minded and 
those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19)
Unless and until they repent the world can not 
receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 
1:18-20)

So lets stay on track and see what leads up 
to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age 
nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away
1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
.
1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of 
this age has understood ...
1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the 
Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of 
God
1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except 
the spirit of the man which is in him ...
 
even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
God
1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of 
the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
know.
1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words 
taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit
 
combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does 
not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him 
and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually 
discerned.

So how did "merely human" get into the 
conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is 

discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
-this is not about who the people think they are or 
mature/immature.


On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'Someone who is merely 
  human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are 
  foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them 
  because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people 
  discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! 
  For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we 
  have the mind of the Messiah'
  
  Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom 
  and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the 
  Corinthians themselves are.They have been using 
  the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; 
  and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human.
  
  The more they take the drug, the more 
  immature they show themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their 
  in-fighting about different Christian teachers!
  
  That is the main point Paul is making here, 
  and it bears reflection in today's church as we so easily lapse from 
  serious issues to personality clashes, and from personalities to mere 
  gossip, while all the time pretending we are still dealing with important 
  matters.
  
  Paul draws a distinction between 'spiritual' 
  people (vs 13) and merely 'human people', those living on the ordinary 
  level.The former are ones in whom God's Spirit has come to dwell, opening 
  them up to new depths and dimensions of truth and experience. The latter 
  may think themselves 'sophisticated' but they are 'merely human'. 
  ('soul-ish') Such

Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)




I was neither saddened at your departure nor happy at your 
return. Carry on doing what you do and, PLEASE DON'T RESTRAIN YOURSELF ON MY 
BEHALF!

 Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 07:02
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s)  
  Anti(s)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/12/2005 6:50:40 AM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] Almost(s)  
Anti(s)

Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't 
be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this?

Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, 
of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. 

cd: Not sure what you as accreting Lance-If I answer 
without knowing you may cry to the Moderator that I am mean to you-this is 
after you told me to leave when I first can on this site-Satan led people 
are always accuses others of the very thingtheyare 
doing..

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
  Autumn equinox
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM 
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
Autumn equinox


Then theres 
the stuff that stinks..
cd: How can 
searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and 
the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can 
only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the 
pot?





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 
11:18 AMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
Autumn equinox









  
  - 
  Original Message - 
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  
  Sent: 
  12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM 
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
  
  
  To let it lie 
  there, I think. 
  
  cd: But a pot 
  of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the 
  air for all to enjoy.
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean 
  MooreSent: Sunday, 
  December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
  Autumn equinox
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

- 
Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 


To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 
12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM 

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox


I think we 
got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. 
iz
cd: 
Chicken? What was the conclusion?





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean 
MooreSent: Sunday, 
December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine 
Autumn equinox









  
  - 
  Original Message - 
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  
  Sent: 
  12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM 
  
  Subject: 
  RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn 
  equinox
  
  
  Yes, 
  welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was 
  getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) 
  iz
  cd: 
  Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will 
  be happy to take it up-with

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats?



- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Else how could joe have moved them
According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) 
They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold.

A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) 

The plates were secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.
After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp.385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).

Amazing strength
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, Moroni. 


In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

who are its authors?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


.. The Book of Mormon is the word of God
--   ~~~  Dave Hansen  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.langlitz.com  ~~~  If you wish to receive  things I find interesting,  I maintain six email lists...  JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,  STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.



Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




One but, not necessarily yours.

No but, peoplewill continue to do 
so.

Yes unequivocally!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 07:02
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 
  2:14-16
  
  How many meanings do you think it has 
  Lance?
  Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to 
  form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
  Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to 
  actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of
  HIS WORD
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO 
THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand 
you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your 
interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have 
ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE 
MEANING?)

  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into 
  another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see 
  what
  God has to say about it ... Those prophets 
  are messing with your head.
  
  1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds 
  of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or thatfrom above.
  
  1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the 
  world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased 
  through the (incarnation)? ...foolishness 
  of the message preached to save those who 
  believe"
  
  There is a natural body and there is a spiritual 
  body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
  There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom 
  that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
  There are people who are spiritually minded and 
  those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 
  19)
  Unless and until they repent the world can not 
  receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
  God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 
  1:18-20)
  
  So lets stay on track and see what leads 
  up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
  1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age 
  nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away
  1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
  .
  1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of 
  this age has understood ...
  1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through 
  the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of 
  God
  1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except 
  the spirit of the man which is in him ...
   
  even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
  God
  1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of 
  the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
  know.
  1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in 
  words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the 
Spirit
   
  combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
  1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does 
  not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him 
  and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually 
  discerned.
  
  So how did "merely human" get into the 
  conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is 
  
  discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
  -this is not about who the people think they are or 
  mature/immature.
  
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'Someone who is merely 
human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are 
foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them 
because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people 
discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! 
For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we 
have the mind of the Messiah'

Paul is now bringing his discussion of 
wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to 
where the Corinthians themselves are.They have 
been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 
'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more 
human.

The more they take the drug, the more 
immature they show themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their 
in-fighting about different Christian teachers!

That is the main point Paul is making here, 
and it bears reflection in today's church as we so easily lapse from 
serious

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

What about them?The stars all over your temples are exactly like the Satanic star of the CRAFT![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star  What a
 coincidence![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple, Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin you need to remove the beam from youreye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear.   Blainerb  
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY

Lance has a DEEP Seated hatred of "Fundamentalists" AND you would be surprised as to who he sees as FUNDAMENTAL Your Dad Judy have been called such. Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am
saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even
lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW!Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical,etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that
could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are
lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will end in murder. Man is full of evil things, and the Koran does not provide the answer to all of the evil in Man. That is the dangerousness of the Koran.People get passionate about its traditions, but their passion is channeled into hate and selfishness. That is the fruit of the Koran.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No/yesHave you read Bernard Lewis on Islam? Was your teacher a Muslim? Was the issue of terrorism addressed? Do you see the similarities between a

Re: [TruthTalk] LIBERAL FUNDAMENTALISTS

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9963/106038 The Five Liberal Fundamentals 1. There are many paths to the same truth, so it does not matter what religion you are. 2. Truth is all relative. Every group sharing a culture has a socially constructed truth, which is true to members of the group. 3. There is no supernatural--only the natural that we dont know and understand yet. 4. If there is a heaven, all "good" people are going there. Nobody goes to hell (if there is a hell), unless they are just too mean to tolerate goodness. 5. Whether there is a heaven or hell doesnt
matter. The only thing that matters is this life.Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians
who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW!
Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical,etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me
as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes
Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you
follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




Can you show me by the Word how I am misusing 
same?
What other ppl do is their business. We are responsible 
for what we do.
Well at last - we can agree on this at 
least.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  One but, not necessarily yours. 
  No but, peoplewill 
  continue to do so. Yes 
  unequivocally!
  
From: Judy Taylor 

How many meanings do you think it has 
Lance?
Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to 
form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to 
actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of
HIS WORD

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO 
  THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand 
  you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your 
  interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture 
  have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE 
  MEANING?)
  
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 

My, my Lance, you've just run right off here 
into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see 
what
God has to say about it ... Those 
prophets are messing with your head.

1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two 
kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or thatfrom above.

1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the 
world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased 
through the (incarnation)? 
...foolishness of the message preached 
to save those who believe"

There is a natural body and there is a 
spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom 
that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
There are people who are spiritually minded and 
those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 
19)
Unless and until they repent the world can not 
receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 
Cor 1:18-20)

So lets stay on track and see what 
leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this 
age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away
1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
.
1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers 
of this age has understood ...
1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through 
the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of 
God
1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man 
except the spirit of the man which is in him ...
 
even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
God
1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit 
of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
know.
1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in 
words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the 
Spirit
 
combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man 
does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness 
to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually 
discerned.

So how did "merely human" get into the 
conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul 
is 
discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
-this is not about who the people think they are or 
mature/immature.


On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's 
  Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't 
  understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But 
  spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern 
  the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as 
  to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah'
  
  Paul is now bringing his discussion of 
  wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to 
  where the Corinthians themselves are.They 
  have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes 
  them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the 
  more human.
  
  The more they take the drug, the more 
  immature they

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




I did not say that you are wrong. I said that you 
might be wrong. I submitted a summary of commentary on the above. Have a 
look.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 07:35
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 
  2:14-16
  
  Can you show me by the Word how I am misusing 
  same?
  What other ppl do is their business. We are 
  responsible for what we do.
  Well at last - we can agree on this at 
  least.
  
  On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
One but, not necessarily yours. 
No but, peoplewill 
continue to do so. Yes 
unequivocally!

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  How many meanings do you think it has 
  Lance?
  Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl 
  to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
  Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart 
  to actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of
  HIS WORD
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO 
THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I 
understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of 
and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does 
Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession 
of that ONE MEANING?)

  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  My, my Lance, you've just run right off here 
  into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and 
  see what
  God has to say about it ... Those 
  prophets are messing with your head.
  
  1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two 
  kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or thatfrom above.
  
  1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God 
  the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well 
  pleased through the (incarnation)? 
  ...foolishness of the message 
  preached to save those who believe"
  
  There is a natural body and there is a 
  spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
  There is wisdom from above and there is 
  wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
  There are people who are spiritually minded 
  and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 
  19)
  Unless and until they repent the world can 
  not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
  God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 
  Cor 1:18-20)
  
  So lets stay on track and see what 
  leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
  1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this 
  age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing 
away
  1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
  .
  1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers 
  of this age has understood ...
  1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them 
  through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths 
  of God
  1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man 
  except the spirit of the man which is in him ...
   
  even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
  God
  1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the 
  spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
  know.
  1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in 
  words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the 
  Spirit
   
  combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
  1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man 
  does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are 
  foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are 
  spiritually discerned.
  
  So how did "merely human" get into 
  the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? 
  Paul is 
  discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
  -this is not about who the people think they are or 
  mature/immature.
  
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's 
Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't 
understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But 
spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern 
the truth about them! For.

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




Is this the "summary of commentary" Lance?
To begin with I have said over and over that I do not 
"interpret" God's Word; if He does not give understanding
we are all flailing about in the dark. This is 
why there are so many theologians and theological differences.
Secondly - Yes scripture has one meaning although ppl 
seem to get all kinds of moral teachings out of it.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that DavidM or myself 
are in possession of ALL TRUTH but we know the one who is.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES 
  MATURE. (think being the operative word).
  As I understand you both, you and David believe both your 
  apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, 
  Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE 
  MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE 
  MEANING?)
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
My, my Lance, 
you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick 
with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those 
prophets are messing with your head.

1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of 
wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual 
or thatfrom above.

1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the 
world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased 
through the (incarnation)? ...foolishness 
of the message preached to save those who 
believe"

There is a natural body and there is a spiritual 
body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that 
is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
There are people who are spiritually minded and 
those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19)
Unless and until they repent the world can not 
receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 
1:18-20)

So lets stay on track and see what leads up 
to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age 
nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away
1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
.
1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of 
this age has understood ...
1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the 
Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of 
God
1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except 
the spirit of the man which is in him ...
 
even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
God
1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of 
the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
know.
1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words 
taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit
 
combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does 
not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him 
and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually 
discerned.

So how did "merely human" get into the 
conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is 

discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
-this is not about who the people think they are or 
mature/immature.


On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'Someone who is merely human 
  doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such 
  people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be 
  discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while 
  nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind 
  of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the 
  Messiah'
  
  Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, 
  and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians 
  themselves are.They have been using the 'drug' 
  of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul 
  declares that it has made them all the more human.
  
  The more they take the drug, the more immature they show 
  themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their in-fighting about 
  different Christian teachers!
  
  That is the main point Paul is making here, and it bears 
  reflection in today's church as we so easily lapse from serious issues to 
  personality clashes, and from personalities to mere gossip, while all the 
  time pretending we are still dealing with important matters.
  
  Paul draws a distinction between 'spiritual' people (vs 
  13) and merely 'human people', those living on the ordinary level.The 
  former are ones in whom God's Spirit has

RE: [TruthTalk] Cross

The COMPLETE absence of the Cross taken in consideration of the Plethora of ANTI Christian and Satanic SYMBOLS shows what this "Restoration" is really made of. Then of course there are the occult RITUALS that are performed inside.Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Ezekiel 8:16-15 Mostof the templesare carefully laid out point to the east, including the "Angel Moroni" that stands at the top.Inverted Pentagram Symbolizes the morning star, a name Satan has taken. Used in witchcraft and occult rituals to conjure up evil spirits. Satanists use it 2 points up and pagans use it one point up. Any way it is used symbolizes evil. It matters not if two points are up or one. It matters not if it has a circle around it. It still is a symbol of Satan. Udjat - or all seeing eye. one of few symbols referring to Lucifer (king of hell), whom it is though will pass judgment. Below the eye is a tear because he mourns for
those outside his influence. All seeing Eye - Believed to be the eye of Lucifer. Used in divination. Hexes, curses, psychic control and all corruption are worked through this emblem.The north visitors center has 18 Satanic stars 6 + 6 + 6 The Nauvoo temple has SIX columns of the star/SUN/moon so 6 stars 6 Suns 6 Moons "In symbolism, an inverted figure always signifies a perverted power. The average person does not even suspect the
occult properties of emblematic pentacles A good instance of this practice is found in the pentagram, or five-pointed star, made of five connected lines. This figure is the time-honored symbol of the magical arts The pentagram is used extensively in black magicThe star may be broken at one point by not permitting the converging lines to touch; it may be inverted by having one point down and two up; or it may be distorted by having the points of varying lengths. When used in black magic, the pentagram is called the "sign of the cloven hoof," or the footprint of the Devil. The star with two points upward is also called the "Goat of Mendes*," because the inverted star is the same shape as a goats head. When the upright
star turns and upper point falls to the bottom, it signifies the fall of the Morning Star." (Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. CIV. ) I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven Lk 10:18 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Romans
1:25 Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive.PerryFrom: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] CrossDate: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*DAVEH: I
hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried.In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesuswhich to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship..As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This
inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation. Now that is a BIG WHIOPPER!Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blaine, I'll bet you are dead wrong. Are you saying the temple designers just put it up randomly? No way. In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken, every detail has meaning!PerryFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evilDate: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:46 ESTWhat about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they orthe Mormon
Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point.In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC starWhat a coincidence![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple,Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, whichrepresents Jesus Christ.Kevin you need to remove the beam from your eye and then the LDS eye willappear perfectly clear.Blainerb--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an
email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

The PEACE SYMBOL or Cross of Nero - Another sign that mocks the cross of Jesus. Also know as "The Dead Man Rune". It appears on the tombstones of some of Hitler's SS troops. Upside Down Cross - Symbolizes mockery and rejection of Jesus. Necklaces are worn by many satanist's. It can be seen on Rock singers and their album covers. Satanic Cross - Upside down question mark that questions the Deity of God. Within the occult it is the representation of the three crown princes; Satan, Belial and leviathan. Symbolizes complete power under Lucifer.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat.DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. The resurrection was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity? Biblical references would be appreciated.Charles
Perry Locke wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple
thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I
don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not
the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in such a callous way. Kevin Deegan wrote:
Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. *How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of

Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)

Lance stirs the pot calls Dean a BABY?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this?Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you
 as anything other than a BABY. - Original Message -   From: Dean Moore   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox-
 Original Message -   From: ShieldsFamily   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  Then theres the stuff that stinks..  cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this
 site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  To let it lie there, I think. cd:
 But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy.From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
  - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz  cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE:
 [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To:
 TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox  Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz  cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded.From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinoxDAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only
 temporarilycd:Taking youyour anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to mydwelling placemy friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote:   \Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad. cd:True prophet? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell boundunrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church.  -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Nobody knows since there are conflicting stories 14-19? when this fable occuredDean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEElse how could joe have moved them According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold.A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh
52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) The plates were secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he
knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp.385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).Amazing strength Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:who are its authors?On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY

FUNDAMENTALIST J. Gresham Machen "the root of the movement (liberalism) is one; the many varieties of modern liberal religion are rooted in naturalism--that is, in the denial of any entrance of the creative power of God (as distinguished from the ordinary course of nature) in connection with the origin of Christianity...our principle concern...is to show that the liberal attempt at reconciling Christianity with modern science has really relinquished everything distinctive of Christianity, so that what remains is in essentials only that same indefinite type of religious aspiration which was in the world before Christianity came upon the scene. In trying to remove from Christianity everything that could possibly be objected to in the name of science, in trying to bribe off the enemy by those concessions which the enemy most desires, the apologist has really abandoned what he started out to
defend...The plain fact is that liberalism, whether it be true of false, is no mere 'heresy'--no mere divergence at isolated points from Christian teaching. On the contrary it proceeds from a totally different root, and it constitutes, in essentials a unitary system of its own...It differs from Christianity in its view of God, of man, of the seat of authority and the way of salvation...Christianity is being attacked from within by a movement which is anti-Christian to the core." Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Lance has a DEEP Seated hatred of "Fundamentalists" AND you would be surprised as to who he sees as FUNDAMENTAL Your Dad Judy have been called such. Christine Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no
fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW!Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was,
skewed, lacking, heretical,etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism militant Zionism
where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that
the terrorists do not hate America for

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16




I, Judy, know 'the one who is' also. So do all, 
IMO, of the TT participants, with the possible exception of the 
Mormons.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 12, 2005 07:55
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 
  2:14-16
  
  Is this the "summary of commentary" 
  Lance?
  To begin with I have said over and over that I do not 
  "interpret" God's Word; if He does not give understanding
  we are all flailing about in the dark. This is 
  why there are so many theologians and theological differences.
  Secondly - Yes scripture has one meaning although ppl 
  seem to get all kinds of moral teachings out of it.
  I wouldn't go so far as to say that DavidM or myself 
  are in possession of ALL TRUTH but we know the one who is.
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK 
THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).
As I understand you both, you and David believe both your 
apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, 
Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have 
ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE 
MEANING?)


From: Judy Taylor 

  My, my Lance, 
  you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick 
  with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those 
  prophets are messing with your head.
  
  1 Cor2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds 
  of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or thatfrom above.
  
  1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the 
  world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased 
  through the (incarnation)? ...foolishness 
  of the message preached to save those who 
  believe"
  
  There is a natural body and there is a spiritual 
  body (1 Cor 15:44-46)
  There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom 
  that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15)
  There are people who are spiritually minded and 
  those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 
  19)
  Unless and until they repent the world can not 
  receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17)
  God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 
  1:18-20)
  
  So lets stay on track and see what leads 
  up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes:
  1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age 
  nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away
  1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery 
  .
  1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of 
  this age has understood ...
  1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through 
  the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of 
  God
  1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except 
  the spirit of the man which is in him ...
   
  even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of 
  God
  1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of 
  the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might 
  know.
  1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in 
  words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the 
Spirit
   
  combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words
  1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does 
  not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him 
  and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually 
  discerned.
  
  So how did "merely human" get into the 
  conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is 
  
  discussing two kinds of wisdom here 
  -this is not about who the people think they are or 
  mature/immature.
  
  
  On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'Someone who is merely 
human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are 
foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them 
because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people 
discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! 
For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we 
have the mind of the Messiah'

Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and 
folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the 
Corinthians themselves are.They have been 
using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 
'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more 
human.

The more they take the drug, the more immature they 
show themselves to be; and the proof

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Actually, you didn't answer the question. The gentile in
Romans 2 IS NOT a
regeneratedindividual. How do we know
this?This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the
law of God (Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context)
AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because it is based solely
upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit
influence or knowledge of the law.

How do you know he had never heard the preaching of
the cross of Christ? He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did.

The point of Romans 2 is the contrast
between the have's and the have
not's. The Gentiles are those who outside
God's revelation and the Jews are those
who are in.

He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD;
all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation

between these ppl so why are you making one
here?

Paul begins with this scenario. Now I know that this is no longer
true - but Paul is using this very distinction to teach
that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and
Gentile is no longer important.

T he Gentile - typically
speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jewis --
typically speaking . Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the
Jewish Christian in Rome.. hearing is notthe most
important issue doing is.

The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14. Hence,
the Gentile has not heard
the law.

It is not there JD, you are reading this
into the text. It's the old "us vs them" mentality that
is
accepted in many church circles.
Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin
nature
How is an unregenerate gentile who has
never heard God's Law going to do it by nature? They
would not even know what to do - never
having been told.

As far as unregenerated man not being
able to do good -- why did Jonahgoto
Nineveh?

Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift
working in his life which he was trying to run from.

The Roman believer (Jew or gentile) would have to
be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law. Love is
the fulfillment of the law and an unregenerated gentile would be unable
to do this. Paul was speaking to the Churchat Rome wasn't he?

Not in Romans 2.He was addressing the
Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in
chapters 2, 3, 4.

And , as often as not,
he fails in this doing , by the way.If the phrase "by nature" means to
include the indwelling of the Spirit, then
the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE
THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing
the law "by nature." Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this
passage lost and without the Spirit. But, of course, you do not
believe that a nd so away you go.

My so called theology is not judging any Jew one
way or the other.

I am not talking about judging the Jew,
Judy. I am talking about your theology. First,
you imply that "by nature" means the new nature, but then, in this
passage only the Gentile has this "nature" thing going for him which means
that the Jew does not. Paul is making a contrast between what is done
"by nature" and what is not.
You simply cannot sneak the Holy Spirit
into any of this without serious
contextual problems -- one of which I have mentioned. "By
nature" simply cannot mean to include the "new
nature."

Why make this so complicated
JD.The focus from Vs.6 on is "obeying the truth"vs judgment no
matter which way one receives the truth as opposed
to the wrath and fury that comes with disobedience - By Vs.12 Paul writes
"All who have sinned without the law will also perish
without
the law and all who have sinned under the
law will be judged by the law. I see no statement
about
the spiritual condition of the Jews here at
all.

Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES

2005-12-12 Thread Charles Perry Locke

As you like.

From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM 
HE MODERATES

Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:59:00 -0800

DAVEH:   Does that mean I should reconsider thinking of you as a 
hypocritical Christian?   :-)

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

I did and I do. But, with your aging selective memory, you probably would 
not recall that :-)

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE 
FORUM HE MODERATES

Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:12:56 -0800

*There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and 
used ad-hominem references*

DAVEH:If you knew you did such Perry, then did you consider 
reprimanding yourself as you might reprimand another TTer for a similar 
transgression?IOWDo you hold yourself to the same standards as 
you would hold others?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

As for my attacks on promoters of mormonism, I have explained that is is 
not the MESSENGER that I am attacking, but the ORIGINATOR of the 
messages. *There have been times when I have failed to make the 
distinction and used ad-hominem references*, but that certainly is not 
the rule with my anti-mormonism posts.

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-12 Thread Charles Perry Locke

I don't think I used the work glorified, did I? Or idolized, even. I 
don't think Christians glorify or idolize it. I have never seen any 
Christians pray to it, although RCC do have it on a string of beads and they 
hold it when they pray. But, I do not think they are praying to the cross. 
Christians do not depict Christ on the cross because He is risen. The RCC 
depict him as crucified every day.


If you want references, just search the NT for cross and see how often it  
is used by the apostles and Jesus himself as a symbol.


Perry


From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:56 -0800

*I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the 
very instrument of his defeat.*


DAVEH:  Really?   As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan 
could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord.  Everything else he 
tried failedbut, the cross did the job.


   The /*resurrection */was the defeat of deathand Satan.  Removing 
the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the 
symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry.  Perhaps you should consider hanging a 
millstone about your neck..


   How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross?   
Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery?  Was it displayed on their 
edifices?   Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no 
claim to Biblical validity?   Biblical references would be appreciated.


Charles Perry Locke wrote:

I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. *I would expect 
Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of 
his defeat.* Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did 
the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. 
And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for 
our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive.


Perry


*/What does the CROSS REPRESENT/*

DAVEH:  I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with 
Blaine, Kevin.  This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen 
quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel.  Quite often, they 
indicate places where people have died, or in the case of 
cemeteries.where they are buried...





..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have 
idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus.




...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre.  Some 
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in 
their abodes and places of worship.




.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring 
not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the 
device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord.  This inhumane 
instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same 
time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way.  It 
always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such 
a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of 
many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.


   I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin.  
I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this 
discussion let's assume you do.  If your enemy were to maliciously use a 
knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the 
wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on 
a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the 
guy did to your daughter?  And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun 
 knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the 
one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?


   LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf.  
But we don't glorify the tool that killed him.  It sickens me to think of 
man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one 
who did not deserve it.   Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many 
others.  Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his 
Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.


   FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years 
ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at 
night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on 
the freeway


http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm

.This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the 
cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a 
distance.  I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, 
what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes 
his death in such a manner.  I

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE









JSmiths story is typical of the
type of stories told by sociopaths. Ive had a bit of exposure to such
types on more than one occasion, unfortunately. I once was part of a Christian
writers group that was joined by a man who just didnt seem right
to me. He gave me the creeps, and I felt uncomfortable around him. Everyone else
was awed with his talent (which I couldnt see at all) and
all the wonderful stories he told about himself doing good works, plus stories
about how he had been mistreated and abused in his lifetime. 



He was so good at presenting himself as a
fantastic Christian that a local Baptist church hired him as the youth
minister. Meantime I continued to view him with suspicion, but couldnt
figure out why I felt that way towards someone that everyone else thought was the
perfect Christian. It wasnt until he started telling fantastic stories
about how he had been alone at the church and men had broken in and assaulted
him, etc., that the church started getting suspicious and fired him. He was
exposed as a fraud, and shortly after that left town with his wife and two
young sons. 



Years later this man was featured on a TV
crime show as someone who had systematically, over the years, murdered his
mother-in-law, his wife, and a couple of other people in his family. My friend
who had befriended him and invited him into our group was very upset about it
all. I get the same feeling about stories told by and about JSmith as I got
from that fellow. izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
10:42 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE





Sounds like a tough neighborhood. Joe must have
been as full of grit as bad bad Leroy Brown.



Kevin Deegan wrote: 

The plates were secreted about three
miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them,
took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock,
placed them under his arm and started for home. 



After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would
be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some
distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was
jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow
with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About
half a mile further he was attacked
again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man
down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home
he was assaulted the third time.
In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not
notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in
the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able,
he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright
and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book,
pp.385-386, Biographical
Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).











Amazing strength







Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:





gold plates

DAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not
the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 











The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a
set of gold plates by Joseph
Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more extensive records
by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, Moroni. 

















In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







who are its
authors?











On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:









.. The Book of Mormon is the word of God





















-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.













Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo!
Shopping

RE: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil









Thats different from a distored,
upside down satantic pentagram. iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
11:45 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS
Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil















What about the stars on the American
flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple
builders even worry about what direction the stars point. 











In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11
A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







So the North star points DOWN and looks
just like the SATANIC star





What a coincidence!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:









Good picture of part of the recently
completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple,
Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. 











Kevin you need to remove the beam from
youreye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear. 





Blainerb

RE: [TruthTalk] Cross









One of the best songs I ever heard was
titled, He Loved Me with a Cross. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
10:50 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





I think you are missing something important here Dave.
The cross, like the tomb, is empty. Jesus won the victory (for us).
The only people who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We
Protestants celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was
occupied by another, but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a
precious reminder of how much we are loved.
Terry



Dave Hansen wrote: 

What does the CROSS
REPRESENT

DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine,
Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a
few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate
places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are
buried... 




..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the
cross to depict the death of Jesus.



...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their
abodes and places of worship.



.As I see it, those crosses depict the cruel tool used to bring not only much pain and suffering to
our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill
our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's
children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and
degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such
an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to
the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.

 I'm curious as to how you would feel about something
similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake
of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously
use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the
wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a
chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did
to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun 
knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one
that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?

 LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our
behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens
me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death
to one who did not deserve it.  Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many
others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his
Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.

 FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few
years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at
night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the
freeway

http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm

.This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars
on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a
distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road,
what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his
death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such
a sight.  And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in
such a callous way.


Kevin Deegan wrote: 



Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.





How art
thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut
down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine
heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars
of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the
north:...





Yet thou
shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.











North Star,
which represents Jesus Christ. 













What does the CROSS
REPRESENT Blaine?















-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-12 Thread Terry Clifton





Christ did not tell us to take up a borrowed tomb, Dave. We are told
to take up our cross. Those wearing one are sending a messsage that
they follow Christ. Those with one marking their grave are saying the
same thing. This, of course, is not always true, but that cannot be
helped. Anything good will always be faked.
To answer your other question, I criticize almost every thing about the
Catholic religion. They are as screwed up as the Mormons. Don't even
try to understand. It would be a waste of time. IMO, of course, and
that is a shame.
Terry

Dave Hansen wrote:

  
  The cross, like
the tomb, is empty.
  
DAVEH: So why don't Christians hang a symbol of the tomb (stone)
around their neck or decorate their edifices with something less
representative of the tools of God's enemies? As I see it, the tomb
was at least a sacred place, where Jesus' friends were relatively
comfortable. It was also a place where they cared for Jesus' body, and
near where Mary first saw the resurrected Christ. To me, it would be
far more significant than the instrument that brought such pain, misery
and death to our Lord. I just don't understand why anybody would
glorify something that was glorified by the enemies of Jesus.
  
 BTW.Do you criticize the RCC practice of
idolizing/memorializing the crucifix? I don't see much distinction
between what they do, and what most non Catholic Christians do in their
glorification of the cross. Just because one depicts the actual usage
of the cross to bring pain and death to our Savior isn't much different
to me than a cross that remained after Jesus was killed and hauled off
to the tomb. 
  
   I think you are missing something important here
  
DAVEH:  No Terry.I don't think I'm missing anything, Terry.  Lest
you forget, Christ arose from the tombnot the cross.
  
  
  
Terry Clifton wrote:
  


 I think you are missing something important here
Dave. The cross, like
the tomb, is empty. Jesus won the victory (for us). The only
people
who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We "Protestants"
celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was occupied by another,
but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a precious reminder of
how much we are loved.
Terry



Dave Hansen wrote:

  
  What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"
  
DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with
Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've
seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite
often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of
cemeteries.where they are buried... 
  
  
  
  
..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have
idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus.
  
  
  
...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in
their abodes and places of worship.
  
  
  
.As I see it, those crosses depict the cruel tool used
to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but
also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This
inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but
at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and
degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have
such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering
and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who
were victims of it.
  
 I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar,
Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this
discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use
a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that
the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of
jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind
you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if
you drove by a gun  knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives
that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it
bring back fond memories?
  
 LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our
behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me
to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and
death to one who did not deserve it.  Nor do we idolize the cross as
do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and
glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.
  
 FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years
ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at
night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by
on the freeway
  
  http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm
  
.This picture

RE: [TruthTalk] Cross

Vampires despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH:
The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails.  iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:16 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Cross

I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan 
to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his 
defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the 
Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it 
is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. 
I just do not think of that when I see a beehive.

Perry

From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800

*/What does the CROSS REPRESENT/*

DAVEH:  I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, 
Kevin.  This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a 
few crosses at the sides of highways I travel.  Quite often, they indicate 
places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they 
are buried...

..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized 
the cross to depict the death of Jesus.

...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre.  Some 
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their 
abodes and places of worship.

.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring 
not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device

that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord.  This inhumane instrument 
was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to 
punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way.  It always 
amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a 
devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many 
who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.

I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin.  I

don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion 
let's assume you do.  If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to 
torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed

her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around 
your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your 
daughter?  And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun  knife store, and

saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your

daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?

LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf.  
But we don't glorify the tool that killed him.  It sickens me to think of 
man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who

did not deserve it.   Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others.  
Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not 
the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.

FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago 
put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night 
with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the 
freeway

http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm

.This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the 
cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a 
distance.  I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, 
what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes 
his death in such a manner.  I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at 
such a sight.   And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in

such a callous way.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.
*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art

thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast

said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne 
above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the 
congregation, in the sides of the north:...*
*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.*
  *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. *
  */
What does the CROSS REPRESENT Blaine?
  /*

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Thanks for that, Iz. Very discerning!

- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: December 12, 2005 09:38
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

JSmiths story is
typical of the type of stories told by sociopaths. Ive had a bit of
exposure to such types on more than one occasion, unfortunately. I once
was part of a Christian writers group that was joined by a man who just
didnt seem right to me. He gave me the creeps, and I felt uncomfortable
around him. Everyone else was awed with his talent (which I couldnt
see at all) and all the wonderful stories he told about himself doing good
works, plus stories about how he had been mistreated and abused in his
lifetime.

He was so good at
presenting himself as a fantastic Christian that a local Baptist church hired
him as the youth minister. Meantime I continued to view him with
suspicion, but couldnt figure out why I felt that way towards someone that
everyone else thought was the perfect Christian. It wasnt until he
started telling fantastic stories about how he had been alone at the church
and men had broken in and assaulted him, etc., that the church started getting
suspicious and fired him. He was exposed as a fraud, and shortly after
that left town with his wife and two young sons.

Years later this man
was featured on a TV crime show as someone who had systematically, over the
years, murdered his mother-in-law, his wife, and a couple of other people in
his family. My friend who had befriended him and invited him into our
group was very upset about it all. I get the same feeling about stories
told by and about JSmith as I got from that fellow.
izzy

From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terry
CliftonSent: Sunday,
December 11, 2005 10:42 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

Sounds like a tough neighborhood. Joe must have
been as full of grit as bad bad Leroy Brown.Kevin Deegan
wrote:
The plates were secreted about
three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to
them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen
frock, placed them under his arm and started for home.

After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would
be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some
distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was
jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow
with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About
half a mile further he was attacked
again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man
down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached
home he was assaulted the third
time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb,
which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house,
when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his
breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still
altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's
Book, pp.385-386, Biographical
Sketches, by Lucy Smith,
pp.104-105).

Amazing
strength

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

gold
platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my
understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or
not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is
debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The Book of Mormon was
translated to English from a set of gold
plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an
abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named
Mormon,and his son, Moroni.

In a message dated 12/10/2005
9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

who are
its authors?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39
EST [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

.. The Book of Mormon
is the word of
God

-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo!
Shopping

RE: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY









Good for you Christine. We need more
Truth talkers like you on TT! It is sad to see professing Believers daring to
speak against Gods anointed. It verges on blasphemy against the Holy
Spirit. I would fear to do such, which is why Im careful about speaking
against people I dont knowI have to be VERY sure I know what I am
talking about (such as JSmith.) Id rather let it pass most of the time
when claimed Believers are being dissected on TT. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine Miller
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005
12:13 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE
CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY







You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of
Christianity. 

I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take
offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He
doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you
if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. 

I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is
also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but
against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I
wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The
hot Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have
almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no
fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your
ignorance of the Light. 

Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that
signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to
'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently
expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly.
There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring
dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue.
NOW THAT'S LOW!











Please take note that you didn't suggest that my
UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical,etc. ..You
said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity.
Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause
'Dad' was included?







- Original Message - 





From: Christine
Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: December 11, 2005
15:05





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas











Lance wrote:
their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.

Then you have no understanding of Christianity. 

Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I
noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are
Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism 
militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO
obviously).







- Original Message - 





From: Christine
Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: December 11, 2005
14:16





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas











No, I have not read Bernard Lewis.

Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive
Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously
and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist.
She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in
the US.
>From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional
Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several
Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. 

The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was
not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel
is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the
oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because
we are Evil. Israel
is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than
another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism
threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. 

Lance wrote:
Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim
and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?

I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call
myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that
there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who
practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or
righteousness.

But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are
fighting for an untruth. And passion without

RE: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'









Again, I would fear spreading such smut
against a Believer. izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin halverson
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005
1:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Bush on the
Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'







Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of
paper'











http://contrarianistic.blogspot.com/











http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)









Very perceptive on your part, Dean.
I have noticed this to be patently true. iz

















Satan led people are
always accuses others of the very thingtheyare doing..

RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









Please tell us your view of resting on the
Saturday Sabbath. I hesitate to bring up the subject because of such
stinking attitudes from some on TT. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005
5:44 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM 





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









Then theres the stuff that stinks..

cd: How can searching the deeper things of
God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site
cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not
stir the pot?











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
11:18 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM 





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









To let it lie there, I think. 



cd: But a pot of chile smells better when
stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy.











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
10:41 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM 





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir
the pot. iz

cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion?











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
8:07 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox































- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM 





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where
were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz

cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting
of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded.











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005
4:57 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox



























- Original Message - 





From: Dave Hansen 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/10/2005
6:32:21 PM 





Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox











DAVEH: Welcome
back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have
returnedeven if only temporarily











cd:Taking youyour
anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a
fly-He says: Welcome to mydwelling placemy friend ,nice to
see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places
far away.

Dean Moore wrote: 













\Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down
artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad.











 cd:True prophet? What makes him true? If one
speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just
another hell boundunrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your
actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how
Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your
church.



















-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox









When we took a young mormon couple with us
to a medical meeting a few years ago I was talking with the newlywed wife while
we were shopping together. I was shocked when she told me that she
struggled with temptation towards another man that she worked with. Her
husband was a precious young man, and they were newlyweds! izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005
5:56 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine
Autumn equinox 































- Original Message - 





From: 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org





Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM 





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox 











In a message dated
12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







For instance???





Blainerb





cd: Such as depending on how tight
the leather is-and other sexual references-just showing your heart that
is coming out of your mouth-the same as your prophet-defiled.













Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a
naughty conclusion, Dean, not me. Is this an example of the
eye with the beamwanting to remove the mote? Let me see,
weren't you also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were
getting all oiled up.? :)





cd: Actually that was
Kevin who asked a high priests if he had put oil on any new brides lately-Case
in point the Mormons get to put (with their hands) oil on the entire surface of
the naked bodies on all young brides who get married in the temple. We tell
them this is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover
his own sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I hate.

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:25:25 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Actually, you didn't answer the question. The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT a regeneratedindividual. How do we know this?This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God (Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law.

How do you know he had never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ? He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did.

The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's. The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in.

He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation
between these ppl so why are you making one here? I am making one because Paul did. CAn't you read? He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S and J-E-W and and contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law. You deny this?

Paul begins with this scenario. Now I know that this is no longer true - but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important.

Not only unimportant, it is no longer there unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism.Remember
this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces thatGod shows NOpartiality. "non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this section of Romans 2, Judy ..inwardness verses the letter of the law is, hearing versus doing. In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING THE WUILL OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not.

T he Gentile - typically speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jewis -- typically speaking . Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome.. hearing is notthe most important issue doing is.

Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD?
This makes no sense at all. The Jews had been trying to do God's Law since Moses came downfrom Mt. Sinai unsuccessfully. Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the law -- the Jew or the Gentile? And who is doing the deeds of the law by "nature?"

The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14. Hence, the Gentile has not heard
the law.

It is not there JD, you are reading this into the text. This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason. Youareso convinced of the notion that unregenerated man cannot understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that you cannot see what is being said here in Romans 2: 11ff. You don't see the words "Gentiles" and "Jew" in this text? You don't see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles only in this passage? You can't see this?

It's the old "us vs them" mentality that is
accepted in many church circles. Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin nature
How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard God's Law going to do it by nature? They
would not even know what to do - never having been told.

As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good -- why did Jonahgoto Nineveh?

Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift working in his life which he was trying to run from. Judy, you chuck and jive, giving no answers because your theology has no answers. It is empty. NEWS FLASH: NINEVEH REPENTED.

The Roman believer (Jew or gentile) would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law. Love is the fulfillment of the law and an unregenerated gentile would be unable to do this. Paul was speaking to the Churchat Rome wasn't he?

Not in Romans 2.He was addressing the Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in chapters 2, 3, 4.

Nohe wasn't JD; the letter begins with an introduction and then in Vs.7 Paul writes "To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints ... this is who the letter is written to -the called out ones. Chapters 2,3,4 and 5 will have special import to the Jew. Romans 2:23 is a question of the Jewish Christian only, Judy.

And , as often as not, he fails in this doing , by the way.If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit, then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing the law "by nature." Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost and without the Spirit. But, of course, you do not believe that a nd so away you go.

My so called theology is not judging any Jew one way or the other.

I am not talking about judging the Jew, Judy. I am talking about your theology. First, you imply that "by

Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)


Haven't we all !!!-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:59:30 -0600Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s)  Anti(s)






Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz







Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thingtheyare doing..

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

2005-12-12 Thread ttxpress




while there's 
(partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for 
meaning (even in her own mind)

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  ||
  No but, peoplewill continue to do 
  so.
  
  jt
  Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to 
  form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal 
  demands?

[TruthTalk] Saving Faith -- what is it?

2005-12-12 Thread Andrew C. Bain

Question : Who can declare what are the essential doctrines of
soteriology?? All the doctrines are
interconnected. The Scripture cannot be broken. So, anyone denying one doctrine, denies them all.

My response:

There are TWO issues here. 1st -- as you said, anyone who
repudiates any of the essential doctrines of the Scripture is actually
repudiating God. This is my whole point about ASSURANCE of salvation.
The Scripture says over and over again that ALL believers ARE justified, will
NOT come into judgment, ARE born of God, etc. Anyone praying to be
justified/regenerated is admitting that they are NOT a believer. In fact, to say
that you believe in the Resurrection of Christ, but to question your own
salvation is to try to SEPARATE what God has joined together. God says, if you
believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the
dead, YOU SHALL BE SAVED. How could anyone possibly believe in the Resurrection
and not be perfectly assured of their own salvation by Christ's finished work?
Can someone believe God when He speaks about the Resurrection, but call Him a
liar when He speaks about salvation for all who believe? The 2nd issue
-- Clearly, there are some doctrines which believers can be confused about. For
instance, the Corinthian believers for a while had a complete misunderstanding
about the Lord's Supper. The rich were feasting and neglecting the poorer
believers. Yet Paul calls these Corinthians brothers in Christ. Why?
The Corinthians behaviour was sinful, but it did not prove that they were
believing a false gospel. Contrast this, however, with those denying the
Resurrection of the Dead. To deny this, is to deny Christ's Resurrection.

12 Now if Christ
is being heralded that He has been roused from among the dead, how are some
among you saying that there is no resurrection of the
dead?13 Now if there is no resurrection of
the dead, neither has Christ been roused.14
Now if Christ has not been roused, for naught, consequently, is our heralding,
and for naught is your faith.

35
But someone will be protesting, How are the dead being roused? Now with what
body are they coming?36 Imprudent one!
What you are sowing is not being vivified if it should not be
dying.
This is not a major point of controversy with most
Calvinists.The REAL debate surrounds the nature of saving faith. Most
Calvinists are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IGNORANT about the simplicity of faith.
They make faith emotional, mystical and into a work. It's impossible for them to
have assurance of salvation. After all, how can they ever know they possess
saving faith, if it is such an obscure, un-definable act of the soul??? If
faith is intellectually un-definable and un-knowable, we cannot identify it in
ourselves, and subsequently NEVER know whether or not we are justified.
Then there are those who have not fallen into this snare of the devil.
The know thatfaith is simply belief. And belief is to credit/assent/ be
convicted / know a proposition. Therefore, saving faith is simply to
believe the bare truth of the gospel, i.e. Christ has fulfilled the Law and been
sacrificed for the Sheep. Faith
is simple and definable. The gospel is simply and definable. This means
that both can be IDENTIFIED in the mind easily. This is why Paul could
say that ANYONE who cannot identify the doctrine of Christ in
themselves, is lost. Know not Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are
disapproved? Likewise, Christ said that believers will NEVER thirst,
but they have a well of living water springing up to everlasting
life. He says that not only does He know the Sheep, but He is KNOWN
OF MINE. For, even the faith of a mustard seed moves mountains, i.e.,
is without doubt. He that doubts is damned. For let not him that
wavers/doubts expect anything from God !!! (James 1). Doubters are
unbelievers.And this is why when Paul wrote to the Ephesians he
addressed his epistle to the saints and faithful at Ephesus. The believers at
Ephesus MUST have had a full assurance that they were saints. Otherwise, how
would they have known the epistle was addressed to them?? Full assurance
is the privilege of every believer.Andrew Bain
Sydney, Australia
http://www.xanga.com/andrew_c_bain

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:05:10 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, you didn't answer the question.
The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT a
regeneratedindividual.
How do we know this?This is a person who
has never heard the preaching of the law of God
(Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this
context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because
it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit
influence or knowledge
of the law.

You have changed the wording of Vs.14 from "When
gentiles who have not the law do by nature what
the law requires" - to "naturally" obeying the law
JD. Why?How do you know they never heard the
preaching of the cross of
Christ?

The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between
the have's and the have not's. The Gentiles

are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews
are those who are in.

He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no
separation between these ppl so why are
you making one here?

I am making one because Paul did.
CAn't you read? He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S

and J-E-W
and and
contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law.
You deny this?

Only to make his larger point which is what he
begins the 2nd chapter of Romans with, which
is "therefore you have no excuse O man whoever
you are for judging another - he then goes on
to explain God's kindness which is meant to
lead them to repentance and/or God's righteous
judgment" His point is NOT racial
differences.

Paul begins with this scenario. Now I
know that this is no longer true - but Paul is using this

very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is
no longer
important.

Not only unimportant, it is no longer there
unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism.Remember

this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross
and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces thatGod shows
NO
partiality.

"non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this
section of Romans 2, Judy ..inwardness verses the

letter of the law is, hearing versus
doing. In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING

THE WUILL
OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not.

He does go onin the rest of
chapter2 to contrast teaching the law to others while neglecting
to
obey it themselves dishonors God and makes them
lawbreakers which is curious in the light of
your teaching JD which is
thatfollowing the cross the law is no
more.

The Gentile - typically
speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jewis --
typically speaking .
Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the
Jewish Christian in Rome
hearing is notthe most important
issue doing is.

Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the
law -- the Jew or the Gentile? And who is
doing the deeds of the law by
"nature?"

How did we get to Vs.23? I thought we
were discussing Romans 2:14,15? Arn't you a bit
ahead
of yourself? Oh well! Let's just look at
Paul's summary in Vs.29 which is "He is not a real Jew
who is one outwardly, nor is true
circumcision something external and physical. He is a
Jew
who is one inwardly, and real circumcision
is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal.
His
praise is not from men but from God. OK
so the gentiles were able to do the law because they
had circumcized hearts. IOW they were born of
the Spirit so they were able to do "by nature"
what is required by God's
Law.

The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in
2:13-14. Hence, the Gentile has not
heard the law.

It is not there JD, you are reading this into the
text.

This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason.
Youareso convinced of the notion
that unregenerated man cannot
understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that

you cannot see what is being said here in
Romans 2: 11ff. You don't see the words "Gentiles"
and "Jew" in this text? You don't
see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles
only in this passage? You can't see
this?

Yes I can see the words JD - and I can
understand them. There is nothing in the text about
whether or not the gentiles who are by nature
doing what is required in the law have or have
not heard the preaching of the
gospel. You have theold "us vs them" mentality that is
accepted in many church circles. Think
about it in light of the fall of man and the
old sin nature
How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard of God's Law going to do
what is
required in it by their pagan
nature?

As far as unregenerated man not being able to do
good -- why did Jonahgoto Nineveh?

Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift working in his life
which he was trying to run from.

Re: [TruthTalk] Saving Faith -- what is it?




Is this fellow talking to himself or 
what? Maybe he and Gary are in cahoots.
He asks the question and then he answers 
himself ... only Gary doesn't stop at one answer

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:59:14 +1100 "Andrew C. Bain" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Question : "Who can declare what are the essential 
  doctrines of soteriology?? All the doctrines are interconnected. 
  The Scripture cannot be broken. So, anyone denying one doctrine, denies them 
  all."
  
  My response: 
  
  
  There are TWO 
  issues here.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of ChristFor the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.And that
he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the crossTerry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christ did not tell us to take up a borrowed tomb, Dave. We are told to take up our cross. Those wearing one are sending a messsage that they follow Christ. Those with one marking their grave are saying the same thing. This, of course, is not always true, but that cannot be helped. Anything good will always be faked.To answer your other question, I criticize almost every thing about the Catholic religion. They are as screwed up as the Mormons. Don't even try to understand. It would be a waste of time. IMO, of course, and that is a shame.TerryDave Hansen wrote: *The cross, like the tomb, is empty.* DAVEH: So why don't Christians hang a symbol of
the tomb (stone) around their neck or decorate their edifices with something less representative of the tools of God's enemies? As I see it, the tomb was at least a sacred place, where Jesus' friends were relatively comfortable. It was also a place where they cared for Jesus' body, and near where Mary first saw the resurrected Christ. To me, it would be far more significant than the instrument that brought such pain, misery and death to our Lord. I just don't understand why anybody would glorify something that was glorified by the enemies of Jesus. BTW.Do you criticize the RCC practice of idolizing/memorializing the crucifix? I don't see much distinction between what they do, and what most non Catholic Christians do in their glorification of the cross. Just because one depicts the actual usage of the cross to bring pain and death to our Savior
isn't much different to me than a cross that remained after Jesus was killed and hauled off to the tomb. _* I think you are missing something important here*_ DAVEH: No Terry.I don't think I'm missing anything, Terry. Lest you forget, Christ arose from the tombnot the cross. Terry Clifton wrote: _* I think you are missing something important here*_ Dave. *The cross, like the tomb, is empty.* Jesus won the victory (for us). The only people who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We "Protestants" celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was occupied by another, but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a precious reminder of how much we are loved. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: */What does the CROSS
"REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship.
.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife
to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do

RE: [TruthTalk] Cross

You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs? The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on your Temples. From: Dave HansenSubject: [TruthTalk] CrossDate: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried.In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized
the cross to depict the death of Jesuswhich to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship..As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the devicethat was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel
about something similar, Kevin. Idon't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killedher, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun knife store, andsaw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed yourdaughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one whodid not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do
so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freewayhttp://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm..This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him
insuch a callous way.Kevin Deegan wrote:Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how artthou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hastsaid in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:...**Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.* *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. * */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine? /*--~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email
lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

Algy met a bear. The bear met Algy. The bear was bulgy. The bulge was Algy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind)On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:||  No but, peoplewill continue to do so.jt  Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil




In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 
  symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was 
  taken

It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much 
significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!

Re: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pap...




Mark Twain used to say there were three kind of lies. Lies, damned lies, 
and statistics. When it comes to Michael Moore there are five kind of lies. Kay 
S. Hymowitz wrote an excellent article, “Michael Moore, Humbug” that digs deep 
down into the muck and deceit that is Michael Moore. Hymowitz wrote, 
“the five Michael Moore lies are, bold-faced 
lies, lies of omission, artistic lies, slanted insinuating lies, and lies of 
exaggeration.”


Michael Moore, is he an anti-Mormon? If he's 
not, he should be . . .

Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...






I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the 
great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you 
have seen and heard on TT--
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am 
  signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would 
  be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have 
  learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It 
  would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the 
  same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine 
  Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION





In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IFF true 
  then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false 
  then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE?

We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not 
because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant --totally 
ignorant--of what is done would welcome the opportunity to blow 
anythingdescribed in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my 
opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such opportunities. 
The best thing I can tell you is,it is all considered sacred and therefore 
not open to discussion. Bad enough these guys support wavingunder 
clothing with sacred symbols on it in public view.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





In a message dated 12/12/2005 3:50:02 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The resurrection was the defeat of 
  deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, 
  and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. 
  Perhaps you should consider hanging a 
  millstone about your neck..

I love it!!

Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






Blainerb: 
As I have indicated before, 
the plates were finally delivered to him on September 22, 1827. He was 
born on December23, 1805. 

In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:08:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats?
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE

Else how could joe have moved them
According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was “engraven on plates 
which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight 
inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was 
something near six inches in thickness”(Joseph Smith, Times and 
Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) 
They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold.

A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 
288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows 
for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the 
plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same 
calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a 
mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making 
of a Prophet, 600) 

The plates were secreted about three miles from 
home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their 
secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his 
arm and started for home.
After proceeding a short distance, he thought it 
would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling 
some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he 
was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy 
blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran 
at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was 
attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man 
down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached 
home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last 
one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came 
within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the 
fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and 
came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the 
fatigue of running (Lucy's 
Book, pp.385-386, Biographical 
Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).

Amazing strength
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
gold 
  platesDAVEH: I might add that it is 
  my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. 
  Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is 
  debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold 
plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an 
abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named 
Mormon,and his son, Moroni.

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil






You would know--I would not.
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:21:27 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  What about them?
  
  The stars all over your temples are exactly like the Satanic star of the 
  CRAFT![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  



What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt 
they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars 
point.

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





In a message dated 12/12/2005 6:39:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they 
  adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation.
  Now that is a BIG 
WHIOPPER!

The only WHOPPER here is the one you constantly try to manufacture from 
your imagination.
Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil






Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic 
pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :)

In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:43:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  That’s different from 
  a distored, upside down satantic pentagram. iz
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:45 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration 
  - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
  
  
  
  
  
  What about the stars 
  on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what 
  direction the stars point.

Re: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pap...


I watched a M. Moore interview in which he proudly proclaimed a willingness to lie to establish a political victory. 

-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Mark Twain used to say there were three kind of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. When it comes to Michael Moore there are five kind of lies. Kay S. Hymowitz wrote an excellent article, âMichael Moore, Humbugâ that digs deep down into the muck and deceit that is Michael Moore. Hymowitz wrote, âthe five Michael Moore lies are, bold-faced lies, lies of omission, artistic lies, slanted insinuating lies, and lies of exaggeration.â


Michael Moore, is he an anti-Mormon? If he's not, he should be . . .

Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

Really don't you worry about it at all  It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:  In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was takenIt was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a
 wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION

Just like the "innocent" Satanic symbols all over the Temple, NO BIG THING.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:  IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE?We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant --totally ignorant--of what is done would welcome the
 opportunity to blow anythingdescribed in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such opportunities. The best thing I can tell you is,it is all considered sacred and therefore not open to discussion. Bad enough these guys support wavingunder clothing with sacred symbols on it in public view. 
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
Refocus for Kevin. 

  
  But the star on the wall of the Temple represents 
  the North Star, which represents 
  Jesus Christ. 

Kevin, can you show me one authoritative statement 
made by any LDS person in the know which supports your assertion that the stars 
on temple walls represent Satanism? It seems there would be such if what 
you say is true. 

In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Really don't you worry about it at all
  It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL 
  Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic 
  Bible
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 
  symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff 
  was taken

It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too 
much significance to a star on a

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

2005-12-12 Thread ttxpress






On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  
  jtmet a bear. 
  
  The bear met jt
  
  The bear was bulgy. 
  
  The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



while there's 
(partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for 
meaning (even in her own mind)

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  ||
  No but, peoplewill continue to do 
  so.
  
  jt
  Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl 
  to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal 
  demands?

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

To postulate that it, just kind of happened, is rediculous.Everything about the temple has a reason for being. Everything has been carefully planed. Orienting the whole temple towards the east and aligning it to the heavens but without concern for the orientation of the stars? CMON! The Temple itself is "SQUARED to the STARS" but don't worry about those stars on the building,it is just a chance happening. The Temple provides "Orientation for our journey in mortality" but it does not matter what it's oreintation of stars is? CMON! Symbolic stones on the Temple's exterior represent the degrees of eternal glory and other gospel principles, but not what they are universally accepted as? (Inverted Pentagram is satanic)"In 1878, a plan of the Temples exterior walls was purposely drafted to plot the exact location of each of the fifty moon-stones according to lunar
phase, month and year. This was determined by observations made that year in anticipation of the next seasons building program when the moon-stones were to be laid. The individual most capable of such an observation was Orson PrattIn 1869, an astronomical observatory of wood and adobe was constructed specifically for him on the southeast corner of the Temple Block" The Salt Lake Temple: A Monument to a People, University Services, Salt Lake City, 1983[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/12/2005 6:39:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation. Now that is a BIG WHIOPPER!The only WHOPPER here is the one you constantly try to manufacture from your imagination. Blainerb

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

I learned about them at the Mormon temples.  Ipointed outmultiple 666's at the nauvoo temple to one of the security guards, he just winked as if to say I know.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :)In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:43:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Thatâs different from a distored, upside down satantic pentagram. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:45 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evilWhat about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point.   
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

RIGHT, In an interview with Gordon Hinckley he reveals that the LDS Religion is Kabaalistic and hidden everywhere in plain sight is the clues to the deeper Truths that Mormonism actually Worships the "Angel of Light"  You have to be initiated to a much higher level, after you progress to the correct level, then you will be allowed to see the "True" light.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refocus for Kevin.   But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ.   Kevin, can you show me one authoritative statement made by any LDS person in the know which supports your assertion that the stars on temple walls represent Satanism? It seems there would be such if what you say is true. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Really don't you worry about it at all  It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of
 the Satanic Bible  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:  In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was takenIt was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a   
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

That is one of the problems with Mormonism  Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see.  It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them,  But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so.  pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!  look this way  repeat after me "I know the church is true"  Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan.  repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple
 builders even worry about what direction the stars point. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star  What a coincidence![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple, Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus
 Christ. Kevin you need to remove the beam from youreye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear.   Blainerb  
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





Blainerb: If Kevin were honest with TT'rs, 
he would tell you the truth--the stars"plastered all over" the Salt Lake 
Temple, altho all five-sided, are not all inverted. 
Some are, some are not. They were placed there for decorative 
purposes, as well as symbolizing the North Star, the Morning star, the Star of 
Bethlehem, the Telestial Kingdom, the creations of God, 
etc. 

In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Really don't you worry about it at all
  It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL 
  Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic 
  Bible
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 
  symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff 
  was taken

It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too 
much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing 
is Grabbing At 
Straws!!

Re: [TruthTalk]

Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

Isreal claims ancestrythrough Abraham to God. But there wasno Israel from thebeginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so.

The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance.

Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don'tcare forthisidentiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ??

And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling.

Whatever.

Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION





Blainerb: "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men 
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment" (Matt. 
12:36). 


In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:41:04 
P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
Just like the "innocent" Satanic symbols all over 
  the Temple, NO BIG 
  THING.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IFF 
  true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF 
  false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE?

We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not 
because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant 
--totally ignorant--of what is done would welcome the opportunity to blow 
anythingdescribed in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my 
opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such 
opportunities. The best thing I can tell you is,it is all 
considered sacred and therefore not open to discussion. Bad enough 
these guys support wavingunder clothing with sacred symbols on it in 
public view.

[TruthTalk] Inverted Stars on LDS Temples




Blainerb: The following sites furnish the truth about Inverted 
stars on LDS Temples and what they mean:

http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/pentagrams.htm

Kevin, we will be awaiting your comments once your perfidy is 
uncovered.

Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

2005-12-12 Thread ttxpress




yo--leaving jt 
speechless for a spell, how many doctrinal demands do you detect in your own 
mind set? tell us how you decide/d this: is itnone? one? more than 
one? 


On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:45:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  


jtmet a bear. 

The bear met jt

The bear was bulgy. 

The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  

  while there's 
  (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for 
  meaning (even in her own mind)
  
  On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
||
No but, peoplewill continue to do 
so.

jt
Do you think it should be chameleon like for 
ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal 
demands?

[TruthTalk] Inverted stars on LDS Temples





One-Minute 
Answers by Stephen R. GibsonContents of 
One-Minute Answers  

Does the Temple Display Pentagrams?Question: Doesn't 
the Salt Lake Temple display satanic pentagrams on its exterior walls? 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is viewed by some extremists 
among its critics to be a satanic cult. Those who view the Church in this light 
think they have discovered pentagrams on the Salt Lake Temple's exterior which 
they conclude are of the occult, and therefore, satanic in origin. 
Pentagrams are, by definition, any five-pointed, star-shaped figure. It is no 
secret that there are five-pointed stars on the outside walls of the Salt Lake 
Temple; they are there for all to see and admire. However, only those with a 
jaundiced eye to Mormonism would declare such symbols to be pagan and occult 
upon viewing them in person. James E. Talmage gives this description of these 
star stones: 
There are in the walls several series of stones of emblematical 
  design and significance, such as those representing the earth, moon, sun, and 
  stars, and in addition are cloud stones, and stones bearing inscriptions  
  Star-Stones are numerous; each bears in relief the figure of a five-pointed 
  star. On the east center-tower immediately below the battlements are sixteen 
  of these, four on each face, and on each of the east comer towers are twelve 
  such stones, making forty on these towers alone. The Keystones of the doorways 
  and those of the window arches belong to this class, each bearing a single 
  star. 
  Star-Stones of another kind appear on the face of the center tower at the 
  west. Here, above the highest window and extending to the base of the 
  battlement course, are seen the seven stars of the northern constellation Ursa 
  Major or Great Bear, otherwise known as the Dipper. The group is so placed 
  that the two stars called Pointers are practically in line with the North Star 
  itself (The House of the Lord, pp. 148-50).
Five-sided stars have occasionally been used by Church members in various 
artistic expressions since the time of Joseph Smith. Some have noted their 
connection with Church newspapers, Nauvoo legion uniforms, with the concept of 
deseret, and with the genealogical society of the Church. These stars, for the 
most part, have been pentagrams only in the sense that they are five-sided 
stars. 
Extremist critics, however, lead unwitting readers to untrue assumptions. 
They first explain that inverted stars are known as "goat heads" and depict a 
goat's head within a star that has two points facing up, and then say that the 
stars on the temple also have two points facing up. What they do not mention is 
that the five-sided stars can be found placed at various angles, only 
occasionally having two points up. There are no goat's heads carved on these 
temple stars. Mormonism is vehemently opposed to anything satanic, and critics' 
allegations are therefore a distortion of the Church's position. 
No one argues that a certain type of pentagram is significant to members of 
the occult. But to imply that any use of any five-sided star constitutes 
allegiance to Satan flies in the face of reason. Numerous secular organizations, 
not least among them the Boy Scouts of America and the U.S. Government, have 
utilized five-pointed stars as part of their symbolism. Does that make them 
satanic as well? Are Americans who salute the flag and its fifty pentagrams 
unwittingly pledging their allegiance to Satan? Of course not. 
For most of today's Church members, the stars on the Salt Lake Temple are 
mainly decorative nuances around the windows and cornices of the temple. That 
some of them happen to be pointing downward has no significance other than to 
add variety to the arrangement. 
Among today's Church members there are those who interpret the stars as 
representing light and knowledge. Others see them as referring to the Telestial 
Kingdom. No other temple is similarly decorated. 
In his own time, Jesus also had to contend with those who allege his ministry 
was inspired and directed by Satan: "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 
This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils" 
(Matt. 12:24). 
Perhaps Jesus' response to this allegation is applicable for today's critics 
of his temple: 
Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and 
  every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast 
  out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 
  (Matt. 12:25-26)It is no secret that the LDS Church is opposed to 
Satan and his plan to enslave mankind. Why then, on the exterior of their 
temple, would they place symbols promoting this enslavement? The clear answer is 
that they did not do so. This allegation by extremist anti-Mormon critics is 
clearly without factual basis, and it typifies their penchant for maliciously 
attempting to portray the Church in

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





"Universally accepted symbol for Satan?"

What about the Congressional Medal of Honor??? 
Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward




  
  

  

  THE MEDALOF HONOR
  

  The highest award for 
  valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an 
  individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States...  
  -- 
  LEARN 
  MORE--
  

  NEWS



In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see.
  It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as 
  the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we 
  overlay them,
  But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so.
  pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
  look this way  repeat after me "I know the church is true"
  Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for 
  Satan.
  repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  



What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt 
they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars 
point

[TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star




Ursa Major, Dictionary definition:

Ursa Major (The Big 
Dipper) n : a constellation outside the 
Zodiac that rotates around 
the North Star [syn: Great 
Bear, Ursa Major]

Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox





DAVEH: I'm not sure what you are suggesting, Izzy. Does Satan not
tempt non-LDS Christians? Or, are they just reluctant to admit such?

ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  

  

  
  
  
  When we took
a young mormon couple with us
to a medical meeting a few years ago I was talking with the newlywed
wife while
we were shopping together. I was shocked when she told me that she
struggled with temptation towards another man that she worked with.
Her
husband was a precious young man, and they were newlyweds! izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





Blainerb: Many Protestants seem to wear the cross as a way to make a 
statement of their Christian beliefs, but some, I think, wear it in much the 
same was as the Pharisees and Scribes wore phylacteries on their garments, and 
prayed in public--to be seen of men. 


In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:36:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't 
  think I used the work "glorified", did I? Or "idolized", even. I don't 
  think Christians glorify or idolize it. I have never seen any Christians 
  pray to it, although RCC do have it on a string of beads and they hold it 
  when they pray. But, I do not think they are praying to the cross. 
  Christians do not depict Christ on the cross because He is risen. The RCC 
  depict him as crucified every day.If you want references, just 
  search the NT for "cross" and see how often it is used by the 
  apostles and Jesus himself as a symbol.Perry

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





DAVEH: I did not know that you believed in vampires, Izzy. I was
under the impression that vampires were contrived by Hollywood in order
to suck money (rather than blood) from the pockets of those who naively
think vampires are at all bothered by the cross.

 Naturally, I'm anxious to see any Biblical evidence to support your
belief in this matter.

"The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails."

DAVEH: Is this a quote from a Hollywood vampire film,
Izzy???.So why would either Blaine or I cringe?

ShieldsFamily wrote:

  Vampires despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH:
"The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails."  iz

  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One of the best songs 
  I ever heard was titled, “He Loved Me with a Cross”. 
  iz

One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged 
Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. 
I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. 
:)
Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross




In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:51:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Vampires 
  despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH:"The Blood 
  of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails." iz


Blainerb: Vampires are, like 
Kevins 5-pointed stars, about fictionalized characters. Satan does not 
have a goat's head, and Vampires are products of someone's over-active 
imagination, probably both invented to scare kids!!

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





DAVEH:  Yowe...taken a step furtheryou aren't
suggesting Christians who consider the American medals below to be
satanic symbols may not be that much different than Muslims who
consider American military might to be satanic, are you Blaine?  Even
though they see Satan in everything they perceive about America's armed
forces, I'm certain you are mistaken on this one, Blaine. 
(BTW..I'm trying to read your mind on this.I know you didn't
use the word Muslim in this post, but I bet you were thinking about
that comparison, eh Blaine!) 
:-) 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  "Universally
  accepted symbol for Satan?"
  
  What about the Congressional Medal of
Honor??? Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward
  
  
  
  

  




THE MEDAL
OF HONOR

  
  

The highest
award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed
upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United
States...  -- LEARN MORE
--

  
  

NEWS

  

  
  
  
  
  
  In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see.
It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same
proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in
every way if we overlay them,
But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so.
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
look this way  repeat after me "I know the church is true"
Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted
symbol for Satan.
repeat after me.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I
doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what
direction the stars point
  
  

  
  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star





DAVEH: FWIWAll constellations (and stars, for that matter) in
the northern hemisphere appear to rotate around the North Star.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  Ursa Major, Dictionary definition:
  
  Ursa Major (The Big Dipper)
 n : a constellation outside the Zodiac that rotates around the
 North Star [syn: Great Bear, Ursa Major]
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

[TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram




 

Three different United States Medals of Honor currently 
exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.

Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of 
Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are 
inverted pentagrams!!!

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





he just winked as if to say I know

DAVEH: I think I've winked at a few things you've said over years,
Kevin. But if I were you, I wouldn't bet the farm on it meaning what you
think my winks mean
;-) 

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  I learned about them at the Mormon temples.
  Ipointed outmultiple 666's at the nauvoo temple to one of the
security guards, he just winked as if to say I know.
  
  
  
   

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





 the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on
the front cover of the Satanic Bible

DAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it,
Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are
talking about.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Really don't you worry about it at all
  It is probably not important that you have the same Star
plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover
of the Satanic Bible
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, 
from which the mormon stuff was taken

It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching
WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across
as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!





-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs

DAVEH: No.stars are not the recognized symbol of death
that the cross implies, Kevin. Sothere is no reason to see stars
on tombs, unless the person buried there happened to be an astronomer,
or perhaps liked stars from an artistic perspective.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  
  You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you
ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs?
  The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on
your Temples.
  
  From:
Dave Hansen
Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800

*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*

DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with
Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've
seen quite a 
few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they
indicate 
places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where
they 
are buried...




..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have
idolized 
the cross to depict the death of Jesus.



...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre.
Some 
Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses
in their 
abodes and places of worship.



.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to
bring 
not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also
the device

that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane
instrument 
was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time
to 
punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It
always 
amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such
a 
devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds
of many 
who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.

 I'm curious as to how you wou ld feel about something similar,
Kevin. I

don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this
discussion 
let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife
to 
torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the
wounds killed

her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain
around 
your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did
to your 
daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun  knife
store, and

saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that
killed your

daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?

 LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our
behalf. 
But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to
think of 
man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to
one who

did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cros s as do so many
others. 
Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his
Father---not 
the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.

 FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years
ago 
put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at
night 
with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on
the 
freeway

http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm

..This picture really doesn't show them very well compared
to the 
cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at
quite a 
distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that
road, 
what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that
memorializes 
his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would
wince at 
such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain
him in

such a callous way.


Kevin Deegan wrote:

Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.
*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the
morning! how art

thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast

said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt
my throne 
above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the 
congregation, in the sides of the north:...*
*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the
pit.*
 *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. *
 */
What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine?
 /*


--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six emai l lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace,

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil





Wrong Kevin, 
Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all 
inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety.



In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:39:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the 
  same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front 
  cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images 
  looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or 
  post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: 
  
Really don't you worry about it at all
It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered 
ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic 
Bible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  In 
symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff 
was taken
  
  It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY 
  too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as 
  doing is Grabbing At 
  Straws!!

Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram





DAVEH: Blaine.it is not nice for you to point out the double
standards of hypocritical Christians. That is my job!  ;-) 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each
for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
  
  Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals
of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since
they are inverted pentagrams!!!
  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross





In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:43:10 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Kevin 
  Deegan wrote: 
  

You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you ever see 
folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs?
The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on your 
Temples

Blainerb: Oh , so now the 
inverted star represents a cloven hoof! What happened to the goat's head, 
Kevin? Getting confused in your old age? Oh, I get 
it! The stars on the American Flag are not inverted, so are cloven 
hoofs, but the ones on the Congressional Medal of Honor are inverted, so 
are goat's heads . Uh huh!!! What about the five-pointed stars on WW 
II fighter planes? Which are they, goats heads or cloven 
hooves?

Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...

2005-12-12 Thread Charles Perry Locke



Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so 
Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become 
one of his many spirit wives!



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST



I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the
great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what 
you

have seen and heard on TT--
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I am  signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think 
it
would  be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the 
discussions. I

have  learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all.

It  would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all 
in

the  same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-)

-Christine  Miller






--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)





Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? 
:)
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:14:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  Very perceptive on 
  your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. 
  iz
  
  
  
  
  
  

Satan led people are always accuses others of the 
very thingtheyare 
  doing..

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-12 Thread Terry Clifton





No doubt aboudit.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Blainerb: Many Protestants seem to wear the cross as a way to
make a statement of their Christian beliefs, but some, I think, wear it
in much the same was as the Pharisees and Scribes wore phylacteries on
their garments, and prayed in public--to be seen of men.

Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) Anti(s)





Who
specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :)

DAVEH: No...I don't think so, Blaine. If anybody is hung up on
sexual stuff, it seems like Dean gets particularly excited (that may
not be the best word to describe the situation) when the topic is
broached.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :)
  Blainerb
  
  
  In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:14:09 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

Very
perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently
true. iz



 


  
  Satan led people are always accuses others of
the very thingtheyare doing..
  



  
  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

[TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments





If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives!


DAVEH: I wonder if Dean is going to rebuke you for making such
sexually suggestive comments, Perry!  If not, will we then have
another example of hypocritical Christianity in TT?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so
Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may
become one of his many spirit wives!
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...

Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST




I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the

great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to
what you

have seen and heard on TT--

Blainerb


In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I
think it

would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the
discussions. I

have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all.


It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not
all in

the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-)


-Christine Miller


  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross