subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] Was Jesus of God's Nature\?"

FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread Dean Moore

 Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him
will I give power over the nations

 [Original Message]
 From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]  Was Jesus of God's Nature?

  [Original Message]
  From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]  Was Jesus of God's Nature?

  CD wrote:
   Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional
   there is no sin involved-similar to a young
   Christian who hasn't been fully instructed-
   God looks at the intent. The old saying that
   The road to hell is paved by good intentions
   is wrong.

  I hope you rethink this one Dean.

  Leviticus 5:17
  (17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are
forbidden 
  to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet
is he 
  guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

  Ignorance of the law is no excuse.  The saying you say is wrong,
actually is 
  right.  :-)  This is why the prophet said that God's people are
destroyed 
  for a lack of knowledge.  Good intentions alone does not cut it.
 -

 cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David.

 Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than
any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts
and intents of the heart.

 cd: Even  under the old covenant God provided cities for those who killed
without a wrong intent-to allow for a cooling off period the killer could
return to his home.
 Num 35:11  Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for
you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares.

cd: What do you consider willful sin?
Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread Lance Muir

Quoting this Scripture does not mean nothing but, it comes pretty close.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 04, 2006 06:52
Subject: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him
will I give power over the nations

[Original Message]
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]  Was Jesus of God's Nature?

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]  Was Jesus of God's Nature?

 CD wrote:
  Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional
  there is no sin involved-similar to a young
  Christian who hasn't been fully instructed-
  God looks at the intent. The old saying that
  The road to hell is paved by good intentions
  is wrong.

 I hope you rethink this one Dean.

 Leviticus 5:17
 (17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are

forbidden

 to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet

is he

 guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

 Ignorance of the law is no excuse.  The saying you say is wrong,

actually is

 right.  :-)  This is why the prophet said that God's people are

destroyed

 for a lack of knowledge.  Good intentions alone does not cut it.
-

cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David.

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than

any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts
and intents of the heart.

cd: Even  under the old covenant God provided cities for those who killed
without a wrong intent-to allow for a cooling off period the killer 
could

return to his home.

Num 35:11  Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for
you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at 
unawares.

cd: What do you consider willful sin?
Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread knpraise

Overcoming is of Divine Intervention and not of personal effort. That we partner in this effort is a given --- but God recieves ALL the credit because it is His work that brings the victory. Rev 2:26 is an indicative, not an imperative !!

The correct response to these words (Rev 2:26) , then, is "Praise the Lord" and not "oohhh, I better get busy."

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations [Original Message] From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?[Original Message]From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? CD wrote: Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional &
gt; there is no sin involved-similar to a young Christian who hasn't been fully instructed- God looks at the intent. The old saying that "The road to hell is paved by good intentions" is wrong. I hope you rethink this one Dean. Leviticus 5:17(17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbiddento be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is heguilty, and shall bear his iniquity. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. The saying you say is wrong, actually isright. :-) This is why the prophet said that God's people are destroyedfor a lack of knowledge. Good intentions alone does not cut it ---
-- cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. cd: Even under the old covenant God provided cities for those who killed without a wrong intent-to allow for a "cooling off period" the killer could return to his home. Num 35:11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares. cd: What do you consider willful sin? Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread knpraise


In print, you are kind of a scary guy !! But I like it. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quoting this Scripture does not mean nothing but, it comes pretty close.- Original Message -  From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "TruthTalk" <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 04, 2006 06:52  Subject: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him   will I give power over the nations   [Original Message]   From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>  Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
;[Original Message]From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>   Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?   CD wrote: Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional there is no sin involved-similar to a young Christian who hasn't been fully instructed- God looks at the intent. The old saying that "The road to hell is paved by good intentions" is wrong.   I hope you rethink this one Dean.   Leviticus 5:17(17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are   forbidden  
t;  to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet   is heguilty, and shall bear his iniquity.   Ignorance of the law is no excuse. The saying you say is wrong,   actually isright. :-) This is why the prophet said that God's people are   destroyedfor a lack of knowledge. Good intentions alone does not cut it.   - cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than   any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and   spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts   and intents of the heart. cd: Even under the
 old covenant God provided cities for those who killed   without a wrong intent-to allow for a "cooling off period" the killer   could   return to his home.   Num 35:11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for   you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at   unawares. cd: What do you consider willful sin?   Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the   knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, --   "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may   know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)   http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a   friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread Judith H Taylor

His resurrected body is flesh and bone David but it has no blood
and the man described in Revelation 1 certainly is not the one walking
about
in the four gospels doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the
devil.
I don't think a degree in biology equips anyone to understand all of
this, no matter
how smart they are in this field.  judyt

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:33:30 -0500 David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
 Judy wrote:
  The scriptures are not a biological treatise;
  they are about Jesus Christ from Genesis
  to Revelation and he only has a physical flesh
  and blood body for a very short time 3 1/2
  years to be exact
 
 Now where do you get this idea, that Jesus only had a physical body 
 for 3 
 1/2 years?  In my entire life, I have never heard anybody make such 
 a claim.
 
 Judy wrote:
  - He is the ONLY begotten of the father so
  how can you be so sure that you know about
  his genetics, genomes etc.
 
 I have my reasons for thinking I know about these things, but are 
 you now 
 admitting to us that you are not sure about his genetics?
 
 David Miller 
 
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you 
 may know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you 
 have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
 
 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread Judith H Taylor




What about "My people perish for lack of knowledge?" JD
Their sin was one of ignorance but they perished nonetheless; this is why 
young
Christians need to be instructed. Sin brings a curse and death 
regardless. You need to
revise your modus operandi. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:31:59 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  See comments 
  below
  
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/2/2006 12:31:10 PM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
  God's Nature?
  
  Heathens also buy houses and drive cars. If you do not have a 
  sinful nature, Dean, then you do not need any outside help 
  ... as in the Spirit. And if you reject the Spirit's 
  influence (whether intentionally or not) what happens? You sin 
  again.
  --
  
  cd: The help we need isn't "outside help" it is inside help from 
  the Holy Ghost John. 
  Ourside our personal efforts, bro. 
  Of course it is inside help. 
  
  
  If I reject the influence (convictions)of the Spirit ,God's 
  word ,and my knowledge of right and wrong-I will most definitely sin again. 
  Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional there is no sin 
  involved-similar to a young Christian who hasn't been fully instructed-God 
  looks at the intent. The old saying that "The road to hell is paved by good 
  intentions" is wrong. I think I 
  read some of this somewhere !?? Aaaa -- od yeah 
  ! In my comments above 
  !!1
  
  By the way, sin under the Old Law was not just 
  intentional sin. Check out all of the sacrifices. At 
  least one is for unknowing sin. jd
  
  ---
  
  
   So that old man is still there - per Eph 
  4:20-24.
  
  
  cd: Yes he is desiring to come back into our hearts.He must be 
  watched and guarded against daily but in a true christian-He is broken. The 
  more one grows in holiness the weaker he becomes-the Bible refers to him as 
  the flesh. He is in our lives 
  -- he is desiring to destroy us. but he is decreasing. BUT , 
  he is still there. So we agree.
  -
  
  Also, if Romans 3:23 tells us that we are always short of the glory of 
  God -- this side of the "next Life." In that phrase is the 
  old nature. God has no choicewhen it comes to sin. 
  We [always] do -- in this life.
  ---
  cd: Romans3:23 is speakingof the old man-the past 
  sins-the new man can choose not to sin.Look at Romans 3: 
  25 Actually, 3:23 talks about sin in 
  the past tense and "falling short of the glory" in the present and current 
  (ongoing) tense. Falling short of the glory is what is going on right 
  now. God does not count this against us because He sees us and 
  existing within Christ. V 25 does not alter this 
  situation. Nothing does. That is why we have a perpetual 
  need for Jesus.
  
  
  Wesley says this -- All the sins 
  antecedent to their believing. I do not 
  believe this. It limits the notion that Christ dies once and for all 
  time and flies in the face of the confidence we Christians have concerning 
  God's willingness to finish the work He has begun in us. 
  
  
  jd
  
  
  
  Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, 
  to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins 
  that are past, through the forbearance of God; 
  J.Wesley wrote:
  Rom 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth - Before angels and men. A 
  propitiation - To appease an offended God. But if, as some teach, God never 
  was offended, there was no need of this propitiation. And, if so, Christ died 
  in vain. To declare his righteousness - To demonstrate not only his clemency, 
  but his justice; even that vindictive justice whose essential character and 
  principal office is, to punish sin. By the remission of past sins - All the 
  sins antecedent to their believing.
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread knpraise


All you have proven is the difference between judgment under Law and judgment under the rule of the Spirit - judgment for the disciples of Christ after the establishment of the New Law (Jere 31"31-34). Your gospel as presented in the comments below is a gospel absent grace. It is a false gospel.

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judith H Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

What about "My people perish for lack of knowledge?" JD
Their sin was one of ignorance but they perished nonetheless; this is why young
Christians need to be instructed. Sin brings a curse and death regardless. You need to
revise your modus operandi. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:31:59 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


See comments below



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/2/2006 12:31:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

Heathens also buy houses and drive cars. If you do not have a sinful nature, Dean, then you do not need any outside help ... as in the Spirit. And if you reject the Spirit's influence (whether intentionally or not) what happens? You sin again.
--

cd: The help we need isn't "outside help" it is inside help from the Holy Ghost John. 
Ourside our personal efforts, bro. Of course it is inside help. 


If I reject the influence (convictions)of the Spirit ,God's word ,and my knowledge of right and wrong-I will most definitely sin again. Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional there is no sin involved-similar to a young Christian who hasn't been fully instructed-God looks at the intent. The old saying that "The road to hell is paved by good intentions" is wrong. I think I read some of this somewhere !?? Aaaa -- od yeah ! In my comments above !!1

By the way, sin under the Old Law was not just intentional sin. Check out all of the sacrifices. At least one is for unknowing sin. jd

---


 So that old man is still there - per Eph 4:20-24.


cd: Yes he is desiring to come back into our hearts.He must be watched and guarded against daily but in a true christian-He is broken. The more one grows in holiness the weaker he becomes-the Bible refers to him as the flesh. He is in our lives -- he is desiring to destroy us. but he is decreasing. BUT , he is still there. So we agree.
-

Also, if Romans 3:23 tells us that we are always short of the glory of God -- this side of the "next Life." In that phrase is the old nature. God has no choicewhen it comes to sin. We [always] do -- in this life.
---
cd: Romans3:23 is speakingof the old man-the past sins-the new man can choose not to sin.Look at Romans 3: 25 Actually, 3:23 talks about sin in the past tense and "falling short of the glory" in the present and current (ongoing) tense. Falling short of the glory is what is going on right now. God does not count this against us because He sees us and existing within Christ. V 25 does not alter this situation. Nothing does. That is why we have a perpetual need for Jesus.


Wesley says this -- All the sins antecedent to their believing. I do not believe this. It limits the notion that Christ dies once and for all time and flies in the face of the confidence we Christians have concerning God's willingness to finish the work He has begun in us. 


jd



Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 
J.Wesley wrote:
Rom 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth - Before angels and men. A propitiation - To appease an offended God. But if, as some teach, God never was offended, there was no need of this propitiation. And, if so, Christ died in vain. To declare his righteousness - To demonstrate not only his clemency, but his justice; even that vindictive justice whose essential character and principal office is, to punish sin. By the remission of past sins - All the sins antecedent to their believing.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread Judith H Taylor




There is no "new law" JD; the law is the law. Jesus gave a new 
commandment which the Promise of the Father (Holy Spirit)
enables us to perform whereas the ppl under the old covenant with no 
supernatural help had a difficult time performing. Also
the blood of bulls and goats could not cleanse the conscience. Grace 
is not a cover for sin. Grace is the power through
the resurrection that enables us to do the will of the Father which in our 
situation is obeying the Son. judyt

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:36:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  All you have proven is the difference between judgment under Law and 
  judgment under the rule of the Spirit - judgment for the disciples 
  of Christ after the establishment of the New Law (Jere 31"31-34). 
  Your gospel as presented in the comments below is a gospel absent grace. 
  It is a false gospel.
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judith H Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

What about "My people perish for lack of knowledge?" JD
Their sin was one of ignorance but they perished nonetheless; this is 
why young
Christians need to be instructed. Sin brings a curse and death 
regardless. You need to
revise your modus operandi. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:31:59 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  See comments 
  below
  
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/2/2006 12:31:10 PM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
  God's Nature?
  
  Heathens also buy houses and drive cars. If you do not 
  have a sinful nature, Dean, then you do not need any outside 
  help ... as in the Spirit. And if you reject the 
  Spirit's influence (whether intentionally or not) what 
  happens? You sin again.
  --
  
  cd: The help we need isn't "outside help" it is inside help 
  from the Holy Ghost John. 
  Ourside our personal efforts, 
  bro. Of course it is inside help. 
  
  
  If I reject the influence (convictions)of the Spirit 
  ,God's word ,and my knowledge of right and wrong-I will most definitely 
  sin again. Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional there is no sin 
  involved-similar to a young Christian who hasn't been fully instructed-God 
  looks at the intent. The old saying that "The road to hell is paved by 
  good intentions" is wrong. I think I read some of this somewhere !?? 
  Aaaa -- od yeah ! In my comments above 
  !!1
  
  By the way, sin under the Old Law was not 
  just intentional sin. Check out all of the 
  sacrifices. At least one is for unknowing sin. 
  jd
  
  ---
  
  
   So that old man is still there - per Eph 
  4:20-24.
  
  
  cd: Yes he is desiring to come back into our hearts.He must 
  be watched and guarded against daily but in a true christian-He is broken. 
  The more one grows in holiness the weaker he becomes-the Bible refers to 
  him as the flesh. He is in 
  our lives -- he is desiring to destroy us. but he is 
  decreasing. BUT , he is still there. So we 
  agree.
  -
  
  Also, if Romans 3:23 tells us that we are always short of the glory 
  of God -- this side of the "next Life." In that phrase 
  is the old nature. God has no choicewhen it comes to 
  sin. We [always] do -- in this life.
  ---
  cd: Romans3:23 is speakingof the old man-the past 
  sins-the new man can choose not to sin.Look at Romans 3: 
  25 Actually, 3:23 talks about sin 
  in the past tense and "falling short of the glory" in the present and 
  current (ongoing) tense. Falling short of the glory is what is going 
  on right now. God does not count this against us because He 
  sees us and existing within Christ. V 25 does not alter 
  this situation. Nothing does. That is why we have a 
  perpetual need for Jesus.
  
  
  Wesley says this -- All the 
  sins antecedent to their believing. I do 
  not believe this. It limits the notion that Christ dies once and for 
  all time and flies in the face of the confidence we Christians have 
  concerning God's willingness to finish the work He has begun in us. 
  
  
  
  jd
  
  
  
  Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through 
  faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for 
  the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread knpraise



There is no "new law" JD; the law is the law. Jesus gave a new commandment which the Promise of the Father (Holy Spirit)
enables us to perform whereas the ppl under the old covenant with no supernatural help had a difficult time performing. Also
the blood of bulls and goats could not cleanse the conscience. Grace is not a cover for sin. Grace is the power through
the resurrection that enables us to do the will of the Father which in our situation is obeying the Son. judyt




You and I are profoundly different in terms of our expressed theologies. A case I point is the above. 

You know full well that I am going to reference Jere 31:31-34. You also know that this passage describes a new covenant NOT LIKE  the Old Covenant of Moses. You probably know that this very passage is used twice in the book of Hebrews. 

Hebrews 10 finds the author applying this promised new covenant and its subsequent [eternal] remission of sins to the living way. the torn veil of the Holy of Holies that is the body of Christ (10:18-20.) 

But earlier, and more to the point of this discussion, we have the author of Hebrews speaking of the two covenants in this wise: ..in that He says, a new covenant, He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away (8:13 

I feel no need to expand the debate beyond this. If the scriptures are true with regard to the new covenant, your remaining conclusions are not. 

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-04 Thread David Miller

No, I meant approves of.

Children do not have the false stereotypes and judgmental attitude that 
adults often have.  Children also more readily accept what they are taught 
by somebody older than them.  Therefore, the kind of evangelism that John 
and others of his mindset engage in works very well with children.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

the kind of evangelism that John approves of

DAVEH:   Is that a typo?   Did you instead mean to say.disapproves?

David Miller wrote:
JD wrote:

I do not believe in child evangelism.

CD wrote:

This makes me sad John.


What makes this even more sad is the fact that children are the ones who
benefit the most by the kind of evangelism that John approves of.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-03 Thread Dean Moore




cd: David did a good Job answering this already John.




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/2/2006 5:13:25 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?


Where in NT scripture do you find the conversion of a single child? 

A child is not lost, for starters -- so there is no need.

What child evangelism does is this -- it gives the adult church the false sense thatit is taking the gospel to the world. I wouldn't mind "child conversions" if there was some kind of confirmation as they reached an adult age. 80% of all reported conversions in the US are children. Not the casewith the undergroundChurchsuch as in China. 

jd






- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/2/2006 2:00:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

I do not believe in child evangelism. 

jd
cd: Thismakes mesad John.

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: Judith H Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/2/2006 5:56:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

There is and the Passover lamb was for the whole household, including children. judyt
cd: If a young person can be saved at a young age then common sense believes that one can be lost at a young age Judy.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 06:12:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So why is there no sin offering for children under the Old Law? 

jd



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/1/2006 1:19:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

David makes some good points, here, Dean. 

At some point in life, Hitler had a choice. at some point in time, Hitler was not the devil we know him to be. At some point in time, he was as innocent and impressionable as your children.

cd: That would only matter if one believes we are innocent-I don'tbelieve such.The only impression Christ had was given by God Himself the rest is conjecture. Thanks-but Christ never became a heathen.

If there ever was a contrast in response to our Adamic nature, it is seen in the lives of Jesus and Hitler. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Dean wrote:   Then how can can the Second Adam be   the same as the first?   He's not. Jesus was unique because of his spirit, not his flesh.   Dean wrote:   You guys are stating that Christ was no   different than Hitler   Not true.   Dean wrote:   but Hitler was the same as the first Adam   "exactly the same"-in the above you show   the second Adam to be different. This is   our point.If Christ was the same as the first   we are still in our sins Bill.   Nobody is saying that Jesus was not different. We are talking about the  details of how he was unique. Was his physical body unique, or his spirit,  or both? We say his spirit was un
 ique. His birth was unique. On the other  hand, his physical body came from the loins of David. How do you deal with  Acts 2:30, Dean?   David Miller   --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor




Dean is a big boy Bill and his gospel is not a flesh gospel
Uniting and becoming one flesh is something we need in this world to 
procreate and raise godly children
Jesus did not die to institute another "Kingdom of this world" 
judyt

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 23:18:28 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  And I suppose that when a man and a woman 
  unite and become one flesh, they too are 
  hermaphrodite. You are one with your man, aren't you, Judy? Are you 
  hermaphridite?Judy, why don't you take some time off, enjoy your trip to 
  Texas, hug your grandchildren, and trust that Dean can be a big boy while 
  you're gone and think for himself.
  
  God's blessings,
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judith H 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 
10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
God's Nature?

Perfect dualism Dean
Like a hermaphrodite - fully both - good and evil, like Janus.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:51:25 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  You are still blending the natures of Christ, 
  Dean. The result is mixing you up. The Divinity of Christ was in no way 
  tainted by his humanity. As God and man, Christdefeated sin 
  inhis own flesh, rendering it powerless in his resurrection from the 
  grave. In the new birth we are born into his resurrection, new creatures; 
  hence we are given life from beyond the tomb, where sin, death, and the 
  devil cannot reach us -- if, that is, wedaily put to death that 
  oldman who still wants to rear his head.
  
  Dean, I say this with the utmost sincerity: 
  You really do need to let go of your alloy view of Jesus; it can 
  only confuse you.
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 
        6:05 AM
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus 
of God's Nature?







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 1/31/2006 11:19:39 PM 

      Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was 
  Jesus of God's Nature?
  
  
  cdwrites: So I ask you How 
  is one able to produce destruction for men while the other produces a 
  quickening spirit for men?
  

And so it is written, "The first man Adam 
became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving 
Spirit.
-- 1 Corinthians 
  15.45-47
  The first Adam was made from dust and 
  received from Godthe breath of life. His mandate was one: "Be 
  fruitful and multiply."But rather than doing what he was told, 
  Adam chose instead to do the inexplicable. Adam'ssin brought 
  death not only to himself but also to all of his descendants -- Jesus 
  included.What did the first Adam produce? He produced death. 
  
  The second Adam was born into the fall 
  of the first. But he was also God. In this one person of Christ God 
  and man came together and accomplished what man alone could not do: 
  the undoing of the firstAdam. Throughout his life, Christ's 
  response to the fall was not to sin, not to do what Adam had done, but 
  to do his Father's will. Hence in his person, Christ reclaimed Adam's 
  posterity (not to mention Adam himself), defeating what had brought 
  death to them all. Then Christ paid the ultimate price: he died on 
  their behalf. Ah, but because he had defeated in his own flesh that 
  which had condemnedthe flesh of Adam, death had no power to hold 
  him.Now in ascension the Second Adam sends his spirit to give 
  life to thosewho could only die without him. Who is the Second 
  Adam? He is the life-giving Spirit.
  ---
  cd:Right-Then how can can the Second 
  Adam be the same as the first? You guys are stating thatChrist 
  was no different than Hitler but Hitler was the same as the first Adam 
  "exactly the same"-in the above you showthe second Adamto 
  be different. This isour point.IfChrist was the same as 
  the first we are still in our sins Bill.
  - 
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content 
by Plains.Net, and is 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor




There is and the Passover lamb was for the whole household, including 
children. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 06:12:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So why is there no sin offering for children under the Old 
  Law? 
  
  jd
  
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/1/2006 1:19:33 PM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
  God's Nature?
  
  David makes some good points, here, Dean. 
  
  At some point in life, Hitler had a choice. at some point 
  in time, Hitler was not the devil we know him to be. At some 
  point in time, he was as innocent and impressionable as your 
  children.
  
  cd: That would only matter if one believes we are innocent-I 
  don'tbelieve such.The only impression Christ had was given by God 
  Himself the rest is conjecture. Thanks-but Christ never became a 
  heathen.
  
  If there ever was a contrast in response to our Adamic nature, 
  it is seen in the lives of Jesus and Hitler. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Dean wrote:   Then 
how can can the Second Adam be   the same as the first? 
  He's not. Jesus was unique because of his spirit, not 
his flesh.   Dean wrote:   You guys are 
stating that Christ was no   different than Hitler  
 Not true.   Dean wrote:   but 
Hitler was the same as the first Adam   "exactly the 
same"-in the above you show   the second Adam to be 
different. This is   our point.If Christ was the same as the 
first   we are still in our sins Bill.   
Nobody is saying that Jesus was not different. We are talking about the 
 details of how he was unique. Was his physical body unique, or 
his spirit,  or both? We say his spirit was un ique. His birth 
was unique. On the other  hand, his physical body came from the 
loins of David. How do you deal with  Acts 2:30, Dean?  
 David Miller   --  "Let your 
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
 you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive 
posts from this list, send an email to  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor




Another way of saying the whole creation is under a curse JD; do you know 
of any person who is not born
of a woman to date JD? However Jesus is the only one ever who is 
begotten by God; that makes him an exception
since the iniquities of the fathers comes down by way of the male. 
judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 06:42:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Job is not alluding to what you are trying to say JD. 
jt
  
  And what is Job alluding to, Judy. How can a man be pure when 
  born of woman? There is some kind of mystery in those words? 
  Something there that is hard to understand? Talk is cheap, 
  Judy. Too bad it is also eternal. If it (Job 
  25:4)doesn't mean what it says, what does it mean? You have no 
  explanation for that question that does not completely change the meaning of 
  the written word. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judith H Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Is Job a Jew JD?
Did the Jews recognize and acknowledge Christ in their generation
Go through scripture and look for some "iniquities of the 
mothers"
Why is it that men are so proud to take leadership roles except when it 
comes to responsibility? Amazing!!
No wonder you want to put band aids on that old nasty fallen Adamic 
nature rather than die to it daily

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:48:53 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Aaaa, another scripture that does not go to the 
  discussion. The fact of the matter is this, in using 
  that scripture I am illustrating the consideration that was the 
  preveailing thought in Jewish thinking concerning what you call "the 
  generational curse." That Christ was born of a woman made Him 
  no different in nature than anyone else and, for the Jew, this meant that 
  He was not pure.
  
  If "generational curses" are true and apply to all of mankind, 
  then Christ was not pure. 
  
  The fact that you eliminate the woman from this "genertional curse" 
  is only JudyLogic. If the "generational curse" 
  doctrine is true, then you have a biblical problem in this Job 
  refeence. But scripture is not your guide. You 
  are. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Job is not alluding to what you are 
trying to say JD. You need to study what God has to say rather 
than trying to put words in His mouth like you do with the rest of us 
constantly. Sin comes down generationally by way of the father. I 
understand Mary had a father also but that's just the way it is. 
You see Israel in Nehemiah's day as a nation repenting for the 
iniquities of their fathers. Maybe you should take a seminar with 
Bill and he can teach you word meanings. judyt.

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor




He sees faith in what JD? Faith in His Words or faith in whatever 
comes along?
Also you are in error - God does not HAVE to do anything. Old Covenant ppl 
could be righteous, they were
under a different system. The law did not fail, it did what it was 
meant to do and still does. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:53:08 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  cd:There is not doubt that the Law failed and we needed the help 
  of the Holy Spirit to keep the Law-
  
  But you keep saying that God wouldn't ask us to do 
  something we cannotdo!!! 
  Care to change your mind onthat one. 
  :Looks like you already 
  have. 
  
  
  but it fail as a whole for many lived under that law and went to 
  heaven. How about Elihja,
  Isaiah, andDaniel-did they fail with the 
  law?
  
  Of 
  course.
  
  How about Zacharias and Elizabeth were they not 
  righteous
  
  compare to others - they were righteous but the 
  fact remains that our righeousness is a filthy rags before 
  the Lord and Jesus, Himself, perhaps thinking of 
  relativessays" and if you [all] being evil know how to give 

  give good gits, how much more 
  .
  
  before Christ came-if they could be righteous before the giving 
  of grace why not us with grace and 
  the Holy Ghost indwelling: 
  
  And why this point. What does this have to do 
  with anything? I believe that "righteousness" is a gifted 
  
  consideration in the mind of God (Ro 4:4) He sees 
  faith and uses it as a substitute for [our] personal 
  righteousness. 
  Why? BECAUSE HE HAS TO !! 
  Those you mentioned, above, are not exception to the rule of Romans 
  4:4. 
  Agreed?! jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/1/2006 10:43:38 AM 
      Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
      God's Nature?
  
  
  Could you make a line-item response, similar to what David 
  does. For me to respond to you, specifically, and have you 
  write something that is not responsive allows for endless 
  debate. 
  
  "Sinful nature" is not "sinning nature." I have a human 
  nature that is given to sin. I can refuse to so act - but 
  given enough time, I will commit sin. I and you - 
  respond to our human nature in the same way as Adam. Christ chose 
  not to sin.
  His life makes us all liars when we say that we cannot act 
  righteously. 
  You say that God does not ask us to do what we cannot do. 
  Well, he asked the Jews to live the law long before He gave a personal 
  indwelling ... proving that we can live the law without 
  the Spirit's indwelling  according to your 
  reasoning. Perhaps the Spirit's Indwelling accomplishes other 
  purposes if we, in fact, can live a righteous life without it? 
  Wow !!
  -
  cd:There is not doubt that the Law failed and we needed the 
  help of the Holy Spirit to keep the Law-but it fail as a whole for many 
  lived under that law and went to heaven. How about Elihja,Isaiah, 
  andDaniel-did they fail with the law? How about Zacharias and 
  Elizabeth were they not righteous before Christ came-if they could be 
  righteous before the giving of grace why not us with grace and the Holy 
  Ghost indwelling:
  
  
  Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of 
  Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and his 
  wife was of 
  the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 
  Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before 
  God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord 
  blameless. 
  cd: Brother it is getting old repeating myself over and 
  over again-you need to listen asI have other things to do in my 
  life.Your Calvinism doctorine is wrong John and you are not learning 
  because you have closed yourself off to any other idea. This in itself 
  (the above)should show you something is missing.
  For me, "cannot" and "will not" have the same conclusion in my 
  life. The only difference, as I see it, is that the first 
  consideration makes God guilty (creating me with no chance at doing 
  what He commanded), the second reveals my own 
  complicity. And, as if there were any question, Jesus 
  assumes my nature and does what I might argue "cannot be done," 
  making me a liar and deserving of sin. 
  
  I have long believed that Christ's life and oral ministry left me 
  deserving of death and without excuse. His death on the 
  cross took that condemnation away.
  
  cd; Again we are talking after the cross not salvation but 
  beyond.
  
  
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor






On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:22:08 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Bizarre theories? Your pastor and the leadership at BSF teach 
  what is essentially being taught here by David, Bill, Lance, and 
  others.
  
  jt: I don't think so JD, although they have accepted some of the quotes 
  of the church fathers without thinking them through, I have never heard this 
  incarnational gospel from any of them. 
  
  You want Dean to believe that we are the minority, the bizarre, the 
  weido's. when it isyou (and maybe Dean) who 
  stands alone on this point. Your position is the very definition 
  of bizarre. ROL Judy.
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judith H Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I find it quite amazing Dean that these people can just ignore 
scriptures like those you post
below and go on and on about bizarre theories that contradict the clear 
word of truth, I thank
God for you... because even DM appears taken in by this one.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:47:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  From: 
  
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/1/2006 1:48:09 PM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus 
    of God's Nature?

I John 5:20 "-- Jesus is the true God." 

Making a distinction between "Lord" and "God" is to misunderstand 
exactly what Peter was saying when he pronounced Jesus as Lord and 
Messiah (Acts 2:36). 

Peter is saying that Christ is both God and Messiah 
!!!
-

cd:John I am giving two passages that shows a difference between 
God and Christ and before the group jumps the gun and call me a heretic 
I am not saying thatJesus isn't part of the Godhead because He is. 
To answer more mailers I have to move on but there is a difference to 
those whom would see.

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right 
hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 





jd


  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 7:23:52 PM 

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was 
Jesus of God's Nature?

I am rethinking that as Christ said only God is good-I now find 
that one piece is sweeter than the other-but God gave all power to 
Christ so He now is also sweeter-think about it and slow 
down stating on what I believe-thanks bro..cd


jd responds: 

You write it - I think you believe it, Dean. 
Tell mein the following exactly where I am speaking for 
you. 

Look at the following: I say "I hope you are not coming 
to a decision that Jesus ... was not God in the flesh" and you say 
" "That seems to be the direction .."

I will not slow down when referencing what you 
write.

cd: I am stating that Christ is the Lord not God 
John-and as such is part of the GodHead-Judy is right on the Trinity 
issue-it leads one to mistake who Christ is. But you took that a 
step farther and seem to think I am anti-Christ as you think Judy 
is.Wrong on both counts.

jd





  
- Original Message - 

From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:37:43 AM 
    
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Was Jesus of God's Nature?

Dean, I hope that you are coming to a decision that 
Jesus in the flesh was not God in the flesh. This is 
a very serious matter. 

jd
cd; That seems to be the direction but I want the deeper 
level of understanding John-revolving around the:" Why call me 
goodonly God is good." statement of 
  Chris..

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Judith H Taylor




The point here is JD that they were born sinners and liable whether or not 
they sinned
Jesus was not born a sinner. He is the ONLY begotten of the Father; 
yes he had a flesh
and blood body but he was not born in the first Adam. His father is 
God. judyt

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:32:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  What does this mean -- Death ruled from Adam 
  to Moseseven over those who had not sinned and you are 
  willing to fight over Jesushaving such a nature. 
  
  Your scripture for this. Those between Adam and Moses did not 
  sin.
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judith H Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Why must you insist on making 
distinctions that are nowhere in the text  of  scripture. 
Ephesians 2 describes perfectly what a fallen nature looks  like - 
and it  automatically makes one a child of wrath. Death ruled from 
Adam to Moses  even  over those who had not sinned and you 
are willing to fight over Jesus  having such  a nature. 
judytOn Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:08:54 -0500 "David 
Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:   JD wrote: 
   "Sinful nature" is not "sinning nature."   
  Excellent point, John. A sinful nature provides a source of 
  temptation, but   it is not synonymous with the 
idea of a sinning nature, a nature   that must   sin 
despite whatever we think, say, or do. David 
Miller. --   "Let your 
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you   may 
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)   
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to 
receive posts from this list, send an email to   
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you  
 have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.   
   --  "Let your speech be always with 
grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to 
answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: Judith H Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/1/2006 10:56:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

I find it quite amazing Dean that these people can just ignore scriptures like those you post
below and go on and on about bizarre theories that contradict the clear word of truth, I thank
God for you... because even DM appears taken in by this one.

cd: The best thatI can figure Judy is that David seems back and forth without a clear understanding of what our discussion is regarding what we state we believe-I suspect he only read a few post and joined the conversation so we seem to be going back to get him up to date and at the same time defending the issues we already got past.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:47:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/1/2006 1:48:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

I John 5:20 "-- Jesus is the true God." 

Making a distinction between "Lord" and "God" is to misunderstand exactly what Peter was saying when he pronounced Jesus as Lord and Messiah (Acts 2:36). 

Peter is saying that Christ is both God and Messiah !!!
-

cd:John I am giving two passages that shows a difference between God and Christ and before the group jumps the gun and call me a heretic I am not saying thatJesus isn't part of the Godhead because He is. To answer more mailers I have to move on but there is a difference to those whom would see.

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 





jd



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 7:23:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

I am rethinking that as Christ said only God is good-I now find that one piece is sweeter than the other-but God gave all power to Christ so He now is also sweeter-think about it and slow down stating on what I believe-thanks bro..cd


jd responds: 

You write it - I think you believe it, Dean. Tell mein the following exactly where I am speaking for you. 

Look at the following: I say "I hope you are not coming to a decision that Jesus ... was not God in the flesh" and you say " "That seems to be the direction .."

I will not slow down when referencing what you write.

cd: I am stating that Christ is the Lord not God John-and as such is part of the GodHead-Judy is right on the Trinity issue-it leads one to mistake who Christ is. But you took that a step farther and seem to think I am anti-Christ as you think Judy is.Wrong on both counts.

jd






- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:37:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

Dean, I hope that you are coming to a decision that Jesus in the flesh was not God in the flesh. This is a very serious matter. 

jd
cd; That seems to be the direction but I want the deeper level of understanding John-revolving around the:" Why call me goodonly God is good." statement of Chris..

Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

2006-02-02 Thread Taylor






Dean 
writes: . . . we were brought to His state as 
Christians.

And from this 
morning:Bill I hesitate to answer this as I am 
not sure where you stand on the issue of: Did Christ appear in the Heathen state 
or in the state we are now as Christians. As a Christian I have all the human 
genes that you mentioned yet I am different from Hitler. I have flesh and Blood 
but am a new creature in Christ conformed to His image. If I statethat 
Iagree with you then what am I agreeing to?Enlighten 
me?

First of all, Dean, the fact 
that Christ is the "genos of David" should have no bearing on whether you agree 
with me or not. It is Jesus who declares it -- not me. He came in the flesh of 
David and Abraham and Adam. You figure it out. That aside, I'll share a couple 
thoughts: 

  1) The ressurected Christ 
  does not have the same nature in his humanity that he did prior to his 
  crucifixion. He took on sinful flesh tocondemn sin in the flesh. This he 
  did in his life, death, and resurrection -- sin totally condemned, totally 
  defeated! Thus his resurrected humanity is "perfected," now completely 
  victorious. Sin, death, and the devil have absolutely no bearing upon his 
  resurrected humanity; for in his resurrection the tyrants are totally 
  defeated, death being the last enemy to fall--as we too will 
  discover in the resurrection: "Death is swallowed up in victory.O Death, 
  where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" 
  
  
  2) You keep speaking of 
  Jesus, prior to the crucifixion,as having had the same nature we have 
  now as Christians on the other side of the cross. But that is not so. Paul 
  writes, "Therefore, from now on, we regard no man according to the flesh. Even 
  though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus 
  no longer" (2Cor 5.16).There isno new birth or new man ornew 
  creation apart from the resurrection. It is the glorified Christ who sends us 
  his Spirit, notChrist before having finished the workwhich he came 
  to do. Why do you suppose he did not send the Counselor until after his 
  ressurection? Because the tyants had not yet been fully defeated. Ah but in 
  his resurrection there is new birth, a new man, a new creation. We are born 
  into his absolute victory over sin, death, and the devil. Hence, we are now 
  engaged in a daily struggle between two natures, our old flesh nature that 
  wants to return to its former ways, and the new resurrected nature of Christ. 
  But because this relationship is not semetrical either, we do not have to give 
  into that old man; we can put him to death every day. In other words, "Christ 
  in us, the hope of glory" is Christ resurrectedand ascended. 
  "I have been 
  crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but 
  Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith 
  in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me" 
  (Gal2.19).
  
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:54 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
  God's Nature?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/1/2006 8:40:22 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
God's Nature?

You are still blending the natures of Christ, 
Dean. The result is mixing you up. The Divinity of Christ was in no way 
tainted by his humanity. As God and man, Christdefeated sin 
inhis own flesh, rendering it powerless in his resurrection from the 
grave. In the new birth we are born into his resurrection, new creatures; 
hence we are given life from beyond the tomb, where sin, death, and the 
devil cannot reach us -- if, that is, wedaily put to death that 
oldman who still wants to rear his head.

Dean, I say this with the utmost sincerity: You 
really do need to let go of your alloy view of Jesus; it can only 
confuse you.

Bill
cd: This is also getting old John-Christ never 
camein the heathen state we were brought to His state as Christians. 
Think about it.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 
  6:05 AM
      Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of 
  God's Nature?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 11:19:39 PM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus 
of God's Nature?


cdwrites: So I ask you How is 
one able to produce destruction for men while the other produces a 
quickening spirit for men?

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