[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On Dec 6, 2005, at 10:54 AM, Kevin Dangoor wrote: On 12/6/05, paron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that's RESTful, but that's just me. How about asking at the REST Yahoo group? Kind of a second opinion? Some of the heavyweights that don't hang around here, hang around there. I've heard about that group, and I'm afraid we just don't have that kind of time to wait for a conclusive answer :) Enough of this thread seems to be in favor of choice #1, so that's what I'm going to do for starters. POST /link_styles/1/vote HTTP/1.1 Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Content-Length: 12 support=true
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On 12/7/05, Tracy Ruggles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: POST /link_styles/1/vote HTTP/1.1 Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Content-Length: 12 support=true 200 OK
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
+1 on 1.Explanation and origin of bike sheds. ;) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING JanzertOn 12/6/05, Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's a Bike Shed?--Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED]([EMAIL PROTECTED] address is semi-reliable)
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On 12/6/05, paron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that's RESTful, but that's just me. How about asking at the REST Yahoo group? Kind of a second opinion? Some of the heavyweights that don't hang around here, hang around there. I've heard about that group, and I'm afraid we just don't have that kind of time to wait for a conclusive answer :) Enough of this thread seems to be in favor of choice #1, so that's what I'm going to do for starters. Kevin -- Kevin Dangoor Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] company: http://www.BlazingThings.com blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
+1 On Dec 5, 2005, at 10:57 PM, bruno modulix wrote: Kevin Dangoor a écrit : So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 The first, of course. the advantage to the first one is that it makes view look like this: http://yoursite/articles/10 aol / Ronald Jaramillo mail: ronald AT checkandshare DOT com blog: http://www.checkandshare.com/blog
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Kevin,
I am still new to cherrypy.
I was under the impression that you built an object tree, and it
automatically mapped
the URI to the object tree, passing in args to the function
http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10
wouldn't this map to
class Article(.):
def edit(self, id=None):
function to edit article
with cherry py dispatching the uri to
article.edit(id=10)
would you go to partial matches for the other URL (like the CherryPy
docs below),
or is there a trick that directly mapps to a function?
Just trying to learn the options,
Thanks
Mike
- From CherryPy Tutorial -
Partial matches and the default method
Partial matches can happen when a URL contains components that do not
map to the cpg.root object tree. This can happen for a number of
reasons. For example, it may be an error; the user just typed the wrong
URL. But it also can mean that the URL contains extra arguments.
When a partial match happens, CherryPy calls a default method. The
default method is similar to the index method; however, it is only
called as a last resort method, and it's recommended for two
applications:
* Error handling, to be called when the user types the wrong URL;
* Support for positional arguments.
Support for positional arguments when handling partial URL matches is
one of the new features provided by CherryPy. For example, assume that
you have a blog-like application written in CherryPy that takes the
year, month and day as part of the URL:
http://localhost/blog/2005/01/17
This URL can be handled by the following code:
class Blog:
def default(self, year, month, day):
...
default.exposed = True
...
cpg.root.blog = Blog()
So the URL above will be mapped as a call to:
cpg.root.blog.default('2005', '1', '17')
In this case, there is a partial match up to the blog component. The
rest of the URL can't be found in the published object tree. In this
case, the default() method will be called, and the positional
parameters will receive the remaining path components as arguments. The
values are passed as strings; in the above mentioned example, the
arguments would still need to be converted back into numbers, but the
idea is correctly presented.
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
william wrote: Does this is implementable into CP2.1 AFAIK, such flexible URL would available in CP2.2. I think Routes provides the maximum flexibility one could ever need and it seems that it will be easily integrable with CherryPy 2.2: http://www.groovie.org/articles/2005/11/21/routes-1-0-released Ciao Michele
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Michele Cella wrote: I'm unable to make a choice between 1 and 2, definitely not the third option. Ok, the first seems the best. If I read the second it seems like I'm going to edit (or show) 10 articles not the article number 10. So +1 for the first. Ciao Michele
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Here a nice overview of the REST approach to URI encoding with some links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
I prefer the command before anything, e.g.: http://yoursite/edit/article/10 That's assuming 'articles' isn't a subdirectory.
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On Dec 5, 2005, at 12:58 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: Kevin Dangoor wrote: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 http://yoursite/article-10?action=edit ... because 10 doesn't mean anything and articles isn't a very useful container, I prefer non-hierarchical URIs like article-10. You can usefully use that in several contexts, like / edit?obj=article-10, or /editor/article-10, or /article-10/edit Generally I don't like query arguments... Mostly because they're kinda ugly and are too closely related to form posting. I'd avoid them most of the time if it was easy to. The combined class-identifier scheme looks nice though, in a flat is better than nested kind of way. -bob
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote: Indeed, IMO the three are equivalent (in fact 2 and 3 are the same). If we refer to REST we have: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/evaluation.htm#sec_6_2_4 Which clearly indicates that the underlying implementation should be seen through the URI to access a resource. So in the end if we could support the three different URLs to access a resource it would be the best. *That's* certainly not what I would propose. I'd rather take the crappiest of the options (um... let's say /edit?class=myapp.Articles?id=10) than multiple ways to access the resource with the same meaning. Reading that particular document, my impression is that he is saying that URIs don't matter, that they are opaque strings, and their only meaning is what you can do with them. They don't represent resources, only potential actions, and if you read anything more into the strings you are overstepping the abstractions of the web. Some REST principles seem unattainable in this context as well, like the fact we are strictly limited to the GET and POST verbs. This is why I think ?action=edit is reasonable, as it is the verb and there's no real positional location that implies verb. It's an inversion of the typical URI of edit?id=10, where the path is the verb and the variables are the noun. Of course, a real set of actions would be more like: view: show a representation editform: show a form to edit the item save: save changes to an item delete: delete an item createform: show a form to create an item create: actually create the given item select: show several items (e.g., /articles/ typically means select all). Several of these should *absolutely not* be in the URI, specifically delete, save, and create. Now, you could conflate these with other actions, e.g., editform and save (edit+GET=editform, edit+POST=save), and createform and create, and some arbitrary action and delete (maybe select or even view). But I don't think that's very REST, if we're throwing about terms. But on the other hand, this is a total Bike Shed moment, so whatev'. -- Ian Bicking / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://blog.ianbicking.org
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
True. From CherryPy 2.2, all exposed methods will be positional parameters aware by default except index(). Selon Michele Cella [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michael Schneider wrote: would you go to partial matches for the other URL (like the CherryPy docs below), or is there a trick that directly mapps to a function? With CherryPy 2.1 you can also use a PositionalParametersAware class. I think that probably 0.9 will use positional parameters by default since they will be the default in CherryPy 2.2 if I'm right, but we should really ask Kevin about this. See also ticket 73: http://trac.turbogears.org/turbogears/ticket/73 Ciao Michele This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 the advantage to the first one is that it makes view look like this: http://yoursite/articles/10 I like more the second kind. The advantage is that I can use classes for articles, news, etc. and have a consistent look throughout the website. The id is always the last element. It looks more natural to me to have the variant thing in the end (it also makes it easier to navigate through the URL location bar. I hate more the third kind. Anyway, some good articles that might help... http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/58.php http://www.port80software.com/support/articles/nextgenerationurls Be seeing you, -- Jorge Godoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Kevin Dangoor wrote: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 http://yoursite/article-10?action=edit ... because 10 doesn't mean anything and articles isn't a very useful container, I prefer non-hierarchical URIs like article-10. You can usefully use that in several contexts, like /edit?obj=article-10, or /editor/article-10, or /article-10/edit I don't think objects like article 10 are very meaningful containers for things like an editor, so I find .../edit to be less than meaningful. But it depends on what you think the pieces mean: /articles is a class /articles/10 is an instance /articles/10/edit is a method /edit is an function /articles/10 is an instance /edit/articles/10 is a generic function applied to that instance /articles is a module /articles/edit is a function /articles/edit/10 is a function invocation It might be more useful to consider what object creation looks like too (cloning/edit-as-new is a useful operation as well). Pragmatically I usually do /articles/edit/10, and /articles/edit/ creates an object. Deep down I don't personally care that much about the internal URIs of a web application; once the system becomes interactive, all the URIs are tightly bound and opaque for most practical purposes. -- Ian Bicking / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://blog.ianbicking.org
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Kevin Dangoor a écrit : So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 The first, of course. the advantage to the first one is that it makes view look like this: http://yoursite/articles/10 aol /
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
At 3:42 PM -0500 12/5/05, Kevin Dangoor wrote: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 the advantage to the first one is that it makes view look like this: http://yoursite/articles/10 Kevin Forgot one. :: 4) http://yoursite/articles/10?op=edit For me, it is selecting an item (articles/10) and then performing an operation on it. Also has advantage of having the view be like your #1 which I like. --Ray -- Raymond Cote Appropriate Solutions, Inc. PO Box 458 ~ Peterborough, NH 03458-0458 Phone: 603.924.6079 ~ Fax: 603.924.8668 rgacote(at)AppropriateSolutions.com www.AppropriateSolutions.com
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Well, I've found another opinion (and some comments) regarding 1) vs 2) from the Rails side: http://tech.rufy.com/entry/91 (notice the above url :D) Ciao Michele
[TurboGears] link titles (was: Re: [TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?)
Bob Ippolito wrote:
I'd personally tend towards something simpler, and enforce unique
titles... either automatically by adding predicable garbage to the end,
or by validating edits/creates to make sure they have a unique title.
It would be quite reasonable in the SQLObject trunk to create a column
that worked like:
class Article(SQLObject):
title = StringCol()
linkTitle = LinkTitle('title')
a = Article(title='foo bar')
a.linkTitle == 'foo-bar'
Article.byLinkTitle('foo-bar') == a
Basically you'd just be listening for create events, and generate the
actual link title at that time, making the title safe and then appending
stuff to make it unique (if necessary). I think this would be quite
useful for web apps. This example of a column tracking last-modified is
similar in mechanism:
http://xentac.net/~jchu/blog/technology/sqlobject-event-fu
--
Ian Bicking / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://blog.ianbicking.org
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
I would vote #1 For an ecommerce project i'm currently using the following URL scheme: catagoryname/subcatagoryname catagoryname/subcatagoryname/edit catagoryname/subcatagoryname/.../productname catagoryname/subcatagoryname/.../productname/edit Editing the product and catagory 'pages' directly feels verry natural.
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On 12/5/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit This is the most natural. articles contains all articles. 10 is an article. edit is an operation on 10. view is the index method (/articles/10/). 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 Acceptable, but I don't like the 10 jumping levels. article as a collection of articles makes sense. article as a collection of actions doesn't -- people don't go to the site for actions, they go for articles. They also don't want to type /articles/view/10 into the location bar; they want a straightforward /articles/10 . The actions are just a means to facilitate article management, so they go to the right. An OO application has objects with methods, not methods with objects. /articles/10?action=edit Acceptable, but an action should arguably be part of the URL path. And it would mean one huge controller method that switched on actions, which contradicts the CherryPy structural philosophy of one small controller method per action. That's one of the main things that draws people to TG (and Quixote, which does the same thing). /article-10/edit Ugh, this goes back to the dark ages of parsing data out of strings. The thing between the / is supposed to be an identifier, not an identifier embedded into an arbitrary string. Numeric identifiers have many advantages such as sorting. Will article-100 show up after article-99 or between article-10 and article-11? I understand the point about treating the article ID as an arbitrary string, but then why incorporate a number at all?Still, numbers make more sense for a generic CRUD application because we don't know what all the user plans to do with the data, and numbers make it easier for them build any kind of local add-on. 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 This is frustrating when you're analyzing logs or implementing a caching system, and some third-party software has dropped the query string. Anything that's essential to identifying the resource belongs in the URL path. -- Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED] address is semi-reliable)
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
either 1 or 2
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Sorry for the stupid question, but what would the Controller code look like for option #1? for CRUD 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/10/delete 3) http://yoursite/articles/10/create The main reason that I am liking 2, then 3 is that I can see how cherrypy easily maps the urls to functions edit, delete and create. I am having a mind blank here, how would you code #1 without using if clauses and one function? Sorry for my confusion, Mike
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
On 12/6/05, Jeff Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm certain some will suggest this is unpythonic Why? -- Swaroop C Hwww.swaroopch.info
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
+1 on 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
+1 On 12/6/05, Jonathan LaCour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like: 1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit+1 for #1.It is far and away the best option.It just seems to match the way I think of HTTP as messages being sent to objects.Awhile back, I read an article[1] about HTTP by Dan Connolly, who said: HTTP was design as a distributed realization of the Objective C (originally Smalltalk) message passing infrastructure: the first few bytes of every HTTP message are a method name: GET or POST. Uniform Resource Locator is just the result of squeezing the term object reference through the IETF standardization process. I may be making a stretch asserting that this article shouldinfluence the decision for #1, but I think it makes sense.You aresending an edit message to an article that is uniquely identified bythe number 10.To me, http://yoursite/articles/10/editis a left-to-right logical expansion of the lookup, followed by themessage send: [[Article fromID: 10] edit]; Just my two cents.[1] http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/9703-web-apps-essay.html--Jonathan LaCour http://cleverdevil.org-- Swaroop C Hwww.swaroopch.info
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Jeff Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm certain some will suggest this is unpythonic, but here goes: class CrudController(turbogears.Controller): [... snip a bunch of code ...] actually, this is pretty similar to what i've been using for building REST apps (in plain cherrypy; no turbogears yet): http://tasty.python-hosting.com/file/trunk/tasty/controller/rest_resource.py it's a bit idiosyncratic to what i've been building lately and i'm sure it could be made prettier, but it's been working nicely for me. -- anders pearson : http://www.columbia.edu/~anders/ C C N M T L : http://www.ccnmtl.columbia.edu/ weblog : http://thraxil.org/ pgptMy8ZxUyMZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
For me the natural one is the 3 one. Could be that it is because i was programming over 8 years php, but for the first 2 possibillities how would you build a form like this: form action="" href="http://yoursite/articles/edit" target="_blank" >http://yoursite/articles/edit method=GET input type=text name=id value= input type=submit name=edit /form Also for the first two it is not really clear how the application is styled. As example: articles/10/edit could be: object.object.object.index or objext.object.method or object.method.parameter or method.parameter.parameter or index.parameter.parameter.parameter Kim2005/12/6, Andy-Kim Möller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For me the natural one is the 3 one. Could be that it is because i was programming over 8 years php, but for the first 2 possibillities how would you build a form like this: form action="" href="http://yoursite/articles/edit" target="_blank" >http://yoursite/articles/edit method=GET input type=text name=id value= input type=submit name=edit /form Also for the first two it is not really clear how the application is styled. As example: articles/10/edit could be: object.object.object.index or objext.object.method or object.method.parameter or method.parameter.parameter Kim 2005/12/5, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, in a generic CRUD feature, what would you want your URLs to look like:1) http://yoursite/articles/10/edit 2) http://yoursite/articles/edit/10 3) http://yoursite/articles/edit?id=10the advantage to the first one is that it makes view look like this: http://yoursite/articles/10 Kevin--Kevin DangoorAuthor of the Zesty News RSS newsreaderemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] company: http://www.BlazingThings.com blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
Ian's right, this is a Bike Shed moment. But since I care what color the bike shed is, +1 for #1. It feels the most pythonic to me: x = Article(id=10) x.edit(...) But my chief hope is that TurboGears' BDFL makes some decision before we get into an argument about what pythonic means. :)
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
+1 for #1. for you logic.
[TurboGears] Re: a triviality: how do you like your URLs?
What's a Bike Shed? -- Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED] address is semi-reliable)
