Re: Flutter Installer and CUPS Frustrations

2023-08-10 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 06:58:54PM -0700, eeickme...@ubuntu.com wrote:

> Furthermore, the switch to the CUPS snap is also affecting the flavors,
> as this was done without any notification via proper channels (any
> channel, really) before it was implemented. I understand there was a
> discourse post, but I could not find any date as to when the
> implementation would occur, so imagine my surprise when all the sudden
> every single CUPS package was being removed.

> Right now, there's no transition package, so daily .iso images are
> simply being built without CUPS or any printing system unless flavors
> add the following line to their seeds, and this is only an educated
> guess on my part (!!!), so I could be very wrong:

>  * snap:cups

I can't speak to the lack of coordination, but I can say that flavors are
NOT meant to be making their own seed changes for this.  The transition was
done in the desktop-common seed and, in fact, was causing cross-flavor build
failures when the seed change originally went through before all of the
snaps were available on the required channels.

$ grep snap:cups */daily-live/current/*.manifest
kubuntu/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups  
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
lubuntu/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups  
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
ubuntu-budgie/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups   
stable/ubuntu-23.10  980
ubuntu-unity/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups 
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
ubuntu/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups   
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
ubuntu/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-arm64.manifest:snap:cups   
stable/ubuntu-23.10 981
ubuntucinnamon/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups  
stable/ubuntu-23.10  980
ubuntukylin/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups  
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
xubuntu/daily-live/current/mantic-desktop-amd64.manifest:snap:cups  
stable/ubuntu-23.10 980
$

Evidently there is something different in the way desktop-common is being
handled for Edubuntu and Ubuntu Studio, that it's not being seeded there.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer   https://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Flutter Installer and CUPS Frustrations

2023-08-10 Thread eeickmeyer
Hi all,

I didn't know who exactly to email, so sadly, the entire developer list
gets this email and it gets to be public. Please know this comes from a
good place but yes, it's out of frustration and passion. I mean this
with good intentions to hopefully get some balls rolling and I don't
want anyone thrown under the bus, I just want improvement.

Here we are, one week out from Feature Freeze, and we're not at a point
with Ubuntu Studio's system installer, or Edubuntu's installer, where
we want to be (using the Flutter-based installer), so chances are it's
not going to happen. This is not a failure on either of my team's
parts.

With Ubuntu Studio and Edubuntu, we've been keen to use the new
Flutter-based frontend to Subiquity for the installer. After showing
interest nearly a year ago at Ubuntu Summit, I have been receiving
close to radio silence.

With Ubuntu Studio, beginning with 23.10, our plan was to move to the
new installer with the contingency of switching back to Ubiquity.
Calamares has been giving us a ton of frustration due to a bug in which
auto login is not properly set on the KDE Plasma desktop (you read that
correctly, a Qt-based installer is not setting auto-login for KDE), [1]
and the upstream doesn't seem keen to fix it [2]. Furthermore, there's
UI issues that simply cannot be ignored [3].

So, with 23.10. I have switched the Ubuntu Studio seed back to Ubiquity
GTK since the Qt version is hard-coded to Kubuntu. I'd rather not deal
with the mess of a gigantic MR to have it read from a config file to
get its branding which would also inconvenience Kubuntu. While the
theming of the GTK version is picking up the Materia theme correctly,
I'm struggling with ubiquity-dm picking up the wallpaper correctly.
That's very much work-in-progress, but very frustrating as it appears
as though everything is where it needs to be.

But what I'm most frustrated in is the lack of communication to the
flavors about being able to use the new installer at all in any form. I
had volunteered to work with the team, but have been ghosted. In fact,
I raised an issue on Github months ago that seems to be ghosted as well
[4]. This also affects Edubuntu as I would be implementing this there
as well, so that's at least two flavors affected by the silent
treatment.

Even if unintentional, this feels highly anti-collaborative, and
neglect has the same effect.

To quote the Code of Conduct [5]:

   Be collaborative

   
   What we produce is a complex whole made of many parts, it is the sum
   of many dreams. Collaboration between teams that each have their own
   goal and vision is essential; for the whole to be more than the sum
   of its parts, each part must make an effort to understand the whole.
   Collaboration reduces redundancy and improves the quality of our
   work. Internally and externally, we celebrate good collaboration.
   Wherever possible, we work closely with upstream projects and others
   in the free software community to coordinate our efforts. We prefer
   to work transparently and involve interested parties as early as
   possible.
   

   ...
   
   

   Open meritocracy
   

   We invite anybody, from any company, to participate in any aspect of
   the project. Our community is open, and any responsibility can be
   carried by any contributor who demonstrates the required capacity
   and competence.

I see neither of those things happening with this installer.

Furthermore, the switch to the CUPS snap is also affecting the flavors,
as this was done without any notification via proper channels (any
channel, really) before it was implemented. I understand there was a
discourse post, but I could not find any date as to when the
implementation would occur, so imagine my surprise when all the sudden
every single CUPS package was being removed.

Right now, there's no transition package, so daily .iso images are
simply being built without CUPS or any printing system unless flavors
add the following line to their seeds, and this is only an educated
guess on my part (!!!), so I could be very wrong:

 * snap:cups


My solution to all of this is this, and this isn't even a complete
solution, but I hope it's a start:

   * Communication with the flavors needs to be improved. Full stop.
   Mauro has done a fine job with the flavor sync meetings, but those
   are video calls and happen every other month. When things happen
   that affect all flavors, those need to be communicated. Best method?
   Probably this very ML, but maybe we should all find some place to
   agree on since some flavors see themselves (erroneously, in my
   opinion) as separate distributions from Ubuntu.

   
   * If someone is blocked on something (like, say, an installer) and
   asks for help, don't ghost them. I'm not sure who is monitoring
   github issues, but when it's a known flavor lead asking for help,
   shouldn't that get a little bit of priority?

   
   * Collaborate with people who want to collaborate and have had those
   

Re: mumble-server for Linux

2023-08-10 Thread Athos Ribeiro

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 02:57:03PM +0800, 邮件 wrote:


Hello, first of all thank you very much for the mumble-server package. Are 
there any plans to update mumble-server 1.3.4 to the latest version of mumble 
this year?


Hi,

For mantic, the package is currently in sync with debian. Hence, this is
a question of whether debian plans to update it soon.

There is an ongoing discussion at
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1017780 regarding
OpenSSL 3 support and a call for help from the debian maintainer.

--
Athos Ribeiro

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Re: mumble-server for Linux

2023-08-10 Thread Nathan Haines

On 8/4/23 23:57, 邮件 wrote:

Hello, first of all thank you very much for the mumble-server package. Are 
there any plans to update mumble-server 1.3.4 to the latest version of mumble 
this year?


I discussed this with the Debian maintainer last year. Unfortunately, 
the way the code includes external projects makes packaging it 
difficult, and upstream has enough trouble building the project for 
Linux themselves.


I was able to take the snap package's recipe and use those dependencies 
to build the Mumble client and Murmur server because I wanted stereo 
sound support, although the same recipe wouldn't build the latest 
version as a snap.  But I've never been very strong with Debian 
packaging and I wasn't able to pull together diffs or anything like that 
that would've been helpful to Debian.


Unless things change, there are probably no plans to updates Mumble in 
Debian and Ubuntu soon.  It's more likely that the package gets removed 
from the repositories.


Regards,

--
Nathan Haines
Ubuntu - https://www.ubuntu.com/


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