Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: Currently, the Apache Maven package doesn't work due to the libplexus packages (a Maven dependency) being synced from Debian but not Maven itself. According to the bug reports [1][2], this isn't going to be fixed for Karmic and the Maven package will most likely just be dropped. First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). Second, There are a great many people who are currently using Maven in Ubuntu. If it is necessary to drop the packages you really need to warn people during the upgrade process so they won't spend too much time wondering why their projects aren't building anymore (or so they can stick to 9.04 for the time being). It should also be mentioned in the release notes that Ubuntu no longer supports Maven because that would certainly come as a surprise to developers and would factor into their decision on which version to install. I've created a bug report for that [3] but it doesn't appear to have been looked at yet. True, it's only been a few days, but since the release date is quite close now I figured I'd shoot off this email so hopefully this will be resolved one way or the other before the release. 1. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/427539 2. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/417164 3. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/450554 I think you wrongly assumed that Maven was being removed. There were some bugs which were being worked on and most of them have been fixed. Rest will be fixed post release. Credit belongs to many people (I was not involved), and most importantly to the Debian developers who put the packages in shape first. Onkar -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [thanks!]Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
Alvin Thompson [2009-10-27 10:36 -0400]: I'd just like to publicly thank whoever was responsible for getting Maven up to snuff in time for this release. That was Matthias Klose. Kudos for your hard last-minute work! For the record, some plugins are still missing, but these will be provided in a post-release update. These are already being prepared. And of course, thanks to all of the many people who make Ubuntu great release after release. When my people come to invade your planet, you will not be harmed. apt-get install force-field Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:53 PM, John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss John, What's so funny about someone not being able to develop his projects on Ubuntu ? Probably 50% of the universe packages do not have a global scope, however their are important enough for their developers/users so that a lof of people works hard to have those packages available in a good shape on each Ubuntu release. Please STOP being disrespectful for other people. I also believe that there should be a list of the packages which are removed linked from the release notes, it can be an adoption blocker. A good option would be to link to a wiki page, that would allow other people to provide workarounds when available. Best regards, -- João Luís Marques Pinto GetDeb Team Leader http://www.getdeb.net http://blog.getdeb.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09:41AM -0400, Alvin Thompson wrote: Currently, the Apache Maven package doesn't work due to the libplexus packages (a Maven dependency) being synced from Debian but not Maven itself. According to the bug reports [1][2], this isn't going to be fixed for Karmic and the Maven package will most likely just be dropped. ... 1. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/427539 2. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/417164 3. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/450554 Thanks for linking to the source of great information on the complex issues here. The bugs in launchpad are where developers generally focus most of their attention, so there is high quality updated linked information there. Note in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/427539 that there is a Maven2 package from Artur reported to work in karmic, deployed now in a personal package archive (ppa): Workaround is install maven2 from ppa: https://launchpad.net/~uninea/+archive/java Please test it and give feedback. And there still seems to possibly be a chance of getting that in karmic if people can test it out and help get it built in a way that works properly within the ubuntu build process. If that doesn't work out, please recognize how hard it is to put together a project like Ubuntu with over 24000 packages, many at the cutting edge, most maintained by loosely-coupled volunteers, on a clockwork schedule that can't possibly match the schedules of all the component upstream development projects. We can always use new testers, developers, and folks to get involved early in a release cycle to look out for issues like this. Thanks, Neal McBurnett http://neal.mcburnett.org/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) Hi John- I'm not a Java developer, but I certainly know of Maven. It is as essential to Java programmers as Make is to C programmers. I can't weigh in on the discussion about removing Maven, but I don't think it's appropriate to attack Alvin for stating his support of Maven in Ubuntu. :-Dustin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
You *do* understand that Maven is Apache's replacement for Ant, don't you? -Alvin On 10/15/2009 12:53 PM, John Moser wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Dustin Kirkland kirkl...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) Hi John- I'm not a Java developer, but I certainly know of Maven. It is as essential to Java programmers as Make is to C programmers. I think he's overstating the popularity and necessity of a particular package, to a large degree. There are plenty of Java programs in Ubuntu; with Maven being dropped, they should all cease to build, and also be dropped (imagine dropping gmake). Unless, of course, Maven isn't really essential to anything. I could state that a LiveCD build of Nexuiz is essential to a successful Linux build, because everyone wants to play FPS games and we can't have a real operating system if you can't just reboot your computer onto a cleanroom disc with Nexuiz in it. While Nexuiz does exist, and is fun, it's hardly essential for anything (even flexing Ubuntu as a gaming platform), and a LiveCD boot to run a single application is obviously just a pet project of mine. I will continue to laugh at people who present anything with *a* user base as something *essential* to an *entire* class of users, unless it obviously is and thus dropping it would horribly break Ubuntu's functionality or drastically alter the user experience for the entire install base (i.e. libc-dev for C programmers, OpenOffice.org-Writer or Firefox getting dropped, etc). Something only used by a subset of a subset of the userbase isn't required for that whole subset to function, just the further subset thereof. Again, case in point, if Ubuntu drops Maven and suddenly every Java application fails to build on the BS, then Maven is required for Java programming. I can't weigh in on the discussion about removing Maven, but I don't think it's appropriate to attack Alvin for stating his support of Maven in Ubuntu. :-Dustin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
You're *seriously* trying to make the argument that a build tool--especially the one that is due to replace Ant--isn't essential to Java developers? [Alvin files John Moser's name in the list of people NEVER to hire as a developer...] On 10/15/2009 01:29 PM, John Moser wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Dustin Kirklandkirkl...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Moserjohn.r.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) Hi John- I'm not a Java developer, but I certainly know of Maven. It is as essential to Java programmers as Make is to C programmers. I think he's overstating the popularity and necessity of a particular package, to a large degree. There are plenty of Java programs in Ubuntu; with Maven being dropped, they should all cease to build, and also be dropped (imagine dropping gmake). Unless, of course, Maven isn't really essential to anything. I could state that a LiveCD build of Nexuiz is essential to a successful Linux build, because everyone wants to play FPS games and we can't have a real operating system if you can't just reboot your computer onto a cleanroom disc with Nexuiz in it. While Nexuiz does exist, and is fun, it's hardly essential for anything (even flexing Ubuntu as a gaming platform), and a LiveCD boot to run a single application is obviously just a pet project of mine. I will continue to laugh at people who present anything with *a* user base as something *essential* to an *entire* class of users, unless it obviously is and thus dropping it would horribly break Ubuntu's functionality or drastically alter the user experience for the entire install base (i.e. libc-dev for C programmers, OpenOffice.org-Writer or Firefox getting dropped, etc). Something only used by a subset of a subset of the userbase isn't required for that whole subset to function, just the further subset thereof. Again, case in point, if Ubuntu drops Maven and suddenly every Java application fails to build on the BS, then Maven is required for Java programming. I can't weigh in on the discussion about removing Maven, but I don't think it's appropriate to attack Alvin for stating his support of Maven in Ubuntu. :-Dustin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?
John Moser wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson al...@thompsonlogic.com wrote: First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.). I laughed. Your pet project is NOT pretty much required for X in any global scope. I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well I've never seen Maven. Most of the bigger shops are moving to the next buzzword anyway: .NET (why the hell do people do this?) I beg to differ. I despise maven, but have been unable to avoid using it. It _is_ pretty much required for any significant J2EE development. And no, they're not all moving to .net. -- derek -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
