Re: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font problems (part two)
Wilhelm i tried your stack. After each redraw it is 2X slower. When i tried to see why, MC started showing really weird artifacts, menus bars gone wrong, etc and then it crashed. (glad it was the only stack opened at the time). Second attempt: The big problem is with the backdrop (recently damned by the list). This creates all sort of hickups and artifacts and eventually the crash. Taking a screenshot resulted also in an error... After removing the backdrop, i could see better. There IS a memory leak (engine 2.6.6) and further another problem with the redraw of the window in XP thereafter. Each iteration doubles the time it takes... After that, MC was running on mollases (despite your stack closed) and I had to quit a third time - mc became unusable... Parts of the windows from other programs would draw over the mctoolbar - i had this also happen in another stack since 2.6.6 appeared.). Anyway,before i could quit or save or anything MC crashed again... But the leak is well in the engine. Opening mc takes 10MBs of RAM. I run your script and each time MC eats 10MBs. Close the stack, memory is not freed... I did click the stack memory buttons on close... One suggestion is to use graphics instead of fields. MoireX did that and i dont think there was as much overhead... Last but not least, using classic windows window theme instead of XP style helps a bit but not much. By far the worst things i found was the backdrop, and the use of fields as coloring elements. I didn't try with graphics... all tests done on a W2K3 server... Cheers Xavier -- http://monsieurx.com/taoo ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[UPD] bitwiseShiftLeft
After checking the code from yesterday's posting, I noticed that I was still using some plain simple RunRev handlers for the shiftLeft bitwise operator, this would cause it to fail on many occasions.. I've spent the last 6 hours straight (less a few chatRev breaks) to get code that won't fail (hopefully ;-) and can handle 32-bit signed integers.. So here is the fix for shiftLeft (I'm working on a shiftRight fix): function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2 if (p2 = 32) then return p1 * (2 ^ (p2 MOD 32)) if (p2 = 0) then return p1 if (p2 32) then put baseConvert(p1, 10, 2) into p1 repeat p2 put 0 after p1 end repeat return baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10) end if end bitwiseShiftLeft _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: seems to meny If
Ken Ray wrote: On 11/24/05 8:52 PM, liamlambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way to write it Well, first of all, I wouldn't name any buttons with numbers - it can confuse Rev - use something like B1 or whatever you like. And secondly, I would put whatever is in it into some other variable so you can make sure it doesn't get messed with. I agree with everything Ken said - but wanted to show a couple more versions (just to prove Rev always offers many choices of how to solve something :-) My solution below uses B1-B12 instead of 1-12, and has put it into tData: put it into tData put JK,AB,JL,JM,GK,HK,IK,GL,HL,IL,GM,HM,IM,HN,IN,GN into \ tPairs put NextTrack,NextTrack,playpause,back,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5, \ B6,B7,B8,B9,B10,B11,B12 into tBtns repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tPairs if tData contains (item x of tPairs) then do send mouseUp to btn quote (item x of tBtns) quote end repeat For me, it's fatal to use two parallel lists like that - sooner or later, I'll want to add, delete or move one of the entries, and mis-count in the other list. Also, I find it easier to read and comprehend if I keep the string I'm matching directly adjacent to the name of the button, so I'd do something like put it into tData put JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back into tPairs put comma GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8 after tPairs put comma IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12 after tPairs repeat for each item X in tPairs if tData contains (word 1 of X) then do send mouseUp to btn quote (word 2 to -1 of X) quote end repeat I might even do put JK NextTrack, into tPairs put AB NextTrack, after tPairs put JL playpause, after tPairs put GN B12 after tPairs which is kind of long winded, but has the advantage of being very easy to scan visually later. For similar reasons, I'd consider putting them in alphabetical order by the index string, rather than grouping by the effect button name - more likely to be helpful when I come back to look at this bit of code in a year's time (depends on where the JK, AB, etc are coming from). Or, I might put lCommands into a script-local variable and do (in initialization code) put JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back into lCommands put comma GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8 after lCommands put comma IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12 after lCommands split lCommands with comma and space (in running code) put it into tData if lCommands[tData] is not empty then do send mouseUp to btn quote lCommands[tData] quote end if Which of these I'd choose probably depends, honestly, mostly on the mood I'm in at the time :-) I could however probably put together a half-way convincing claim that the choice would be made according to the likelihood of subsequent maintenance efforts, and finding the optimum balance between ease of reading (by programmer) vs conciseness vs speed vs ... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[UPD] bitwise shifts
Sorry for the post earlier, but it seems that there's a small error in it.. Here are the 3 fixed bitwise shift operators (shiftLeft (), shiftRight () and shiftRightZero ()).. Basically there are some integer combinations that would make the other formulas fail and sometimes the shiftRightZero would return a negative integer (which is impossible).. So here are the three corrected functions: function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2 local tP1Neg put (p2 MOD 32) into p2 if (p1 0) then put TRUE into tP1Neg if (p2 = 0) then return p1 put baseConvert(p1, 10, 2) into p1 repeat p2 put 0 after p1 end repeat if (tP1Neg) then return 0 - baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10) else return baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10) end bitwiseShiftLeft function bitwiseShiftRight p1, p2 local tP1Neg, tPad put (p2 MOD 32) into p2 if (p2 = 0) then return p1 if (p1 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2)) if (abs(p1) = (2^p2)) then return trunc(p1 / (2^ p2)) else return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2)) -1 end bitwiseShiftRight function bitwiseShiftRightZero p1, p2 put (p2 MOD 32) into p2 if (p1 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2)) #if (p2 = 0) then return p1 if (p1 0) then put baseConvert(bitNot abs(p1) +1, 10, 2) into p1 repeat p2 delete char -1 of p1 put 0 before p1 end repeat return abs(baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)) end if end bitwiseShiftRightZero _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was Menubar Help
It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To do this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the button, and type this in the message box: remove group 1 from this card It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under the card, because it's not on the card. In this case, if it's not in the card, then surely it's not in the stack and should not be available for Placing or whatver. I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part, but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show up in the app browser, allowing you to delete it. Yes. Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid of this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, great. Yes. So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that aren't in any card under the stack. No. it's a bug in RunRev. The only way a group could be created like that, is in a stack that exists in memory but not as a file. This is possible - once! But during the course of tracking this problem down I quit RunRev, restarted the machine and re-loaded RunRev. The Group was part of the stack where the error occured. When I created another stack the problem wasn't present, yet the Group in question was still in the Place Groups Sub-Menu. Besides all this I really don't think a Group can exist (or at least be accessible by RunRev), unless it is in a stack, and all stacks have at least one card, and they should appear in the App Browser anyway. How the group got there in the first place remains a question for investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix (assuming it is in fact a bug). Yes, It's a Bug - Shock Horror! There are loads of em in RunRev - Get used to it and stop being in denial! Take Care and All the Best Dave gc On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:27 PM, David Burgun wrote: There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed in any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a BLOB in the stack window that could not be selected, however, when selected from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once this was done it worked. How can this not be a bug in RunRev? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
Hello, I want my users to run mc files which are on the server. To achieve this, I am using dreamcard player. But I do not want users to enter the big url address in the dream card player, instead of that i would like to start the player autmatically from the webpage and launch the mc or rev files. ( we can assume that player is already installed on client machines) Is it possible to launch player from the webpage (with parameters of location mc files) ? There are flash plugin for browser . do we have same thing in revolution too?? Thanks for your help Best Regards Pradeep ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
Frank, You might try the Shakobox by Hyperactive Software: http:// www.hyperactivesw.com/Resources.html I couldn't find the MIDI stack though. HTH Tom On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:27 AM, Frank R wrote: Thanks everyone for the welcome and initial responses. Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev, can Someone send me that MIDI Builder demo stack? :) Somebody here has to have it. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Frank ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Scope Problem on Standalones
Hi, I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks. The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other stacks (.rev files) via start using and go stack commands. When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this: BaseFolder/StartUp.rev -- just contains a splash screen BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev. StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE. When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this: MacOSX/myApp.app -- bundle MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton) MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev But when I run this StackB.rev does not get found/run. I traced this down to some code in card 1 (the only card) of StackA.rev: function LoadGlobalStacks local myStackFIlePathName local myStackFIlePath local myGlobalStackFilePathName put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to :/ delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to , put myStackFIlePath /StackB.rev into myGlobalStackFilePathName if there is not a stack myGlobalStackFilePathName return false start using myGlobalStackFilePathName return true end LoadGlobalStacks on preOpenStack if LoadGlobalStacks() = false then answer error Cannot Find Global Stacks end if set the menubar of this stack to MainMenu end preOpenStack The problem seems to be that in the LoadGlobalStacks() function the string returned from: put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName is MacOSX/myApp.app and not MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev as expected. I am guessing it's something to do with scope and being called from a preOpenStack handler??? StackA.rev was enetered via a go stack path/StackA from MacOSX/myApp.app and it looks like this context is being used instead of the context of StackA.rev. If so, what is the recommended way of doing this?? If not what am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance for any help. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Multiplatform Revolution
So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Hi, Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both If you get the studio version, you the IDE will run on one platform of your choice, and you can added the ability to run on additional platforms for a reduced price for each additional platform. You can build standalones to target any of the supported platforms though. If I were you, I'd just buy a studio license for one platform, this entitles you to one year of free updates and you can renew at the end of that. You can always buy an addtional platform when if and when you want to. The base system costs £199 (one host platform) and each additional host platform costs £133. Hope this helps Dave So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!! This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if that becomes necessary. I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this list and there are some resources on the web. I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/ support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site. Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't turn back. As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are worth it. Not looking back, Tom P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you have available to you. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Scope Problem on Standalones
Some more information: I moved the call to LoadGlobalStacks() to the openStack handler in card 1 of StackA.rev, the same thing happens, works fine under IDE but not when run as a standalone. Upon further inspection, I found that after : function LoadGlobalStacks local myStackFIlePathName local myStackFIlePath local myGlobalStackFilePathName put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to :/ delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to , Has been run, myStackFIlePathName is equal to myStackFIlePathName, in other words the last item has NOT been deleted! I changed it to: put empty into item 1 of myStackFIlePath But this doesn't work either! I am testing this using answer dialogs since I can't run the debugger in the standalone and it works fine in the IDE. This an additional problem to the filename of the stack being inconsistent with the current stack. Why should a simple delete statement work under the IDE but not in Standalone mode? I am sure this has worked in the past, although I am not sure that I have tried it as a standalone since I upgraded to the lastest version of RunRev. Any ideas anyone? (there are some typeos in the code below, it's just a problem of re-typing, not in the real script I am running) Thanks a lot All the Best Dave Hi, I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks. The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other stacks (.rev files) via start using and go stack commands. When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this: BaseFolder/StartUp.rev -- just contains a splash screen BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev. StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE. When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this: MacOSX/myApp.app -- bundle MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton) MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev But when I run this StackB.rev does not get found/run. I traced this down to some code in card 1 (the only card) of StackA.rev: function LoadGlobalStacks local myStackFIlePathName local myStackFIlePath local myGlobalStackFilePathName put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to :/ delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath set itemDelimiter to , put myStackFIlePath /StackB.rev into myGlobalStackFilePathName if there is not a stack myGlobalStackFilePathName return false start using myGlobalStackFilePathName return true end LoadGlobalStacks on preOpenStack if LoadGlobalStacks() = false then answer error Cannot Find Global Stacks end if set the menubar of this stack to MainMenu end preOpenStack The problem seems to be that in the LoadGlobalStacks() function the string returned from: put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName is MacOSX/myApp.app and not MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev as expected. I am guessing it's something to do with scope and being called from a preOpenStack handler??? StackA.rev was enetered via a go stack path/StackA from MacOSX/myApp.app and it looks like this context is being used instead of the context of StackA.rev. If so, what is the recommended way of doing this?? If not what am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance for any help. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: group syntax question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Why not use hilitedButtonName? Sorry, I missed the beginning of this conversation. Also, if using the label of, consider effective label to ensure that you don't get an empty label if no label has been set... On Nov 22, 2005, at 2:43 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Eric- Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:14:36 PM, you wrote: Hi Mark, Afraid not with this method... More redeable like this? put the label of btn ID (the hilitedButtonID of grp gpFilter) into tCurBtnLabel switch tCurBtnLabel A bit. I'm open to other methods... how do others deal with finding out which button in a group is the selected one? As in preferences... -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep John 3:16 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDhx8q7aqtWrR9cZoRAh7pAJ0Zs38VeITlcJ0ksOVnVZUFUccVEQCfYpkG v897mdFaAvXQ6ll0vz4Q/pk= =sm8K -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: seems to meny If
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Another way to handle this is to create a custom property on the buttons and assign those stings to the custom property: set the myCharacters of button B1 to GK set the myCharacters of button B2 to HK etc. Now you can: put it into comparator repeat with i = 1 to the number of buttons on this card if the myCharacters of button i contains comparator then send mouseUp to button i end repeat (warning: untested code; may require tweaking...) On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:39 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: Ken Ray wrote: On 11/24/05 8:52 PM, liamlambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way to write it Well, first of all, I wouldn't name any buttons with numbers - it can confuse Rev - use something like B1 or whatever you like. And secondly, I would put whatever is in it into some other variable so you can make sure it doesn't get messed with. I agree with everything Ken said - but wanted to show a couple more versions (just to prove Rev always offers many choices of how to solve something :-) My solution below uses B1-B12 instead of 1-12, and has put it into tData: put it into tData put JK,AB,JL,JM,GK,HK,IK,GL,HL,IL,GM,HM,IM,HN,IN,GN into \ tPairs put NextTrack,NextTrack,playpause,back,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5, \ B6,B7,B8,B9,B10,B11,B12 into tBtns repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tPairs if tData contains (item x of tPairs) then do send mouseUp to btn quote (item x of tBtns) quote end repeat For me, it's fatal to use two parallel lists like that - sooner or later, I'll want to add, delete or move one of the entries, and mis-count in the other list. Also, I find it easier to read and comprehend if I keep the string I'm matching directly adjacent to the name of the button, so I'd do something like put it into tData put JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back into tPairs put comma GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8 after tPairs put comma IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12 after tPairs repeat for each item X in tPairs if tData contains (word 1 of X) then do send mouseUp to btn quote (word 2 to -1 of X) quote end repeat I might even do put JK NextTrack, into tPairs put AB NextTrack, after tPairs put JL playpause, after tPairs put GN B12 after tPairs which is kind of long winded, but has the advantage of being very easy to scan visually later. For similar reasons, I'd consider putting them in alphabetical order by the index string, rather than grouping by the effect button name - more likely to be helpful when I come back to look at this bit of code in a year's time (depends on where the JK, AB, etc are coming from). Or, I might put lCommands into a script-local variable and do (in initialization code) put JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back into lCommands put comma GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8 after lCommands put comma IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12 after lCommands split lCommands with comma and space (in running code) put it into tData if lCommands[tData] is not empty then do send mouseUp to btn quote lCommands[tData] quote end if Which of these I'd choose probably depends, honestly, mostly on the mood I'm in at the time :-) I could however probably put together a half-way convincing claim that the choice would be made according to the likelihood of subsequent maintenance efforts, and finding the optimum balance between ease of reading (by programmer) vs conciseness vs speed vs ... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep John 3:16 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDhyKR7aqtWrR9cZoRAq5oAKCR38AK4YFyROEwgQaUMNn2/K6KbgCcD8ff B7eB/EycBP55fUSd+keUQaM= =MBFP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
I guess I can assume you have all had time to work on this beautiful problem. But if not, read no further. I really like the solution that Charles Hartman provided. Simple and precise. It wasn't the solution I had in mind at all. There is another approach, not as quick as Charles', but it not only demonstrates when the number of factors is odd or even, but it also provides a method of obtaining how many odd or how many even factors there are, and, as a bonus, as a process for finding those factors. From the fundamental theorem of arithmetic any number N can be represented as a unique product of primes N = p1^n1 * p2^n2 * etc. where p1, p2, etc are prime numbers, and n1, n2, etc. are integers The factors of N are then p1^m1 * p2^m2 * . etc. where m1 takes on values from 0 to n1, m2 takes on values from 0 to n2, etc. The number of factors is therefore: (n1 + 1) * (n2 + 1) etc. This product will be odd if and only if EACH of the brackets is odd; But (n + 1) is odd if and only if n is even. If all the n's are even, it follow that N is as perfect square. Similarly for the odd number of factors. For example, if N = 24 then its prime factor representation is 24 = 2^3 * 3^1 And the number of factors is the exponent 3 plus 1, times the exponent 1 plus 1, or 4 * 2 = 8 Explicitly the 8 factors are: 1,2,3,4,6,8,12,24 Each factor is 2 to some power less than or equal to 3, multiplied by 3 to some power less than or equal to 1. Jim ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Thanks Tom, I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another platform are you just buying the ability to produce those executables or also run the ide on that platform? I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them pay when they actually need it. Steve On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!! This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if that becomes necessary. I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this list and there are some resources on the web. I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site. Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't turn back. As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are worth it. Not looking back, Tom P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you have available to you. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Thanks Tom, I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another platform are you just buying the ability to produce those executables or also run the ide on that platform? The RunRev IDE running on any platform can produce Standalones for ANY of the supported platforms. When you buy an additional platform you are just buying the ability to run the IDE on that platform. I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them pay when they actually need it. It works the exact opposite way around! You can develop for any target on N host platforms, you pay for the N platforms not for the ability to produce Standalones. Hope this helps Dave Steve On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!! This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if that becomes necessary. I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this list and there are some resources on the web. I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site. Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't turn back. As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are worth it. Not looking back, Tom P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you have available to you. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url
Re: seems to meny If
Hi Liam, how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way to write it if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button NextTrack if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button NextTrack if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button playpause if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button back if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button 1 if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button 2 if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button 3 if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button 4 if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button 5 if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button 6 if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button 7 if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button 8 if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button 9 if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button 10 if it contains IN then send mouseUp to button 11 if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button 12 Note that the following switch logic only works if the 16 if statements are mutually exclusive (ie: it cannot contain both AB and JL, for example) switch case (it contains JK) -- your handler responds identically to JK AB case (it contains AB) send mouseUp to button NextTrack break case (it contains JL) send mouseUp to button playpause break case (it contains JM) send mouseUp to button back break case (it contains GK) send mouseUp to button 1 break case (it contains HK) send mouseUp to button 2 break case (it contains IK) send mouseUp to button 3 break case (it contains GL) send mouseUp to button 4 break case (it contains HL) send mouseUp to button 5 break case (it contains IL) send mouseUp to button 6 break case (it contains GM) send mouseUp to button 7 break case (it contains HM) send mouseUp to button 8 break case (it contains IM) send mouseUp to button 9 break case (it contains HN) send mouseUp to button 10 break case (it contains IN) send mouseUp to button 11 break case (it contains GN) send mouseUp to button 12 break end switch Rob Cozens CCW Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Hi, Here's a question of my own on the subject. If we have 2 licenses one for Mac and one for Windows, is it ok for 2 developers to use the Mac version at the same time as long as they are not using the Windows version at EXACTLY the same time?? Or Vice Versa! Thanks Dave Thanks Tom, I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another platform are you just buying the ability to produce those executables or also run the ide on that platform? The RunRev IDE running on any platform can produce Standalones for ANY of the supported platforms. When you buy an additional platform you are just buying the ability to run the IDE on that platform. I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them pay when they actually need it. It works the exact opposite way around! You can develop for any target on N host platforms, you pay for the N platforms not for the ability to produce Standalones. Hope this helps Dave Steve On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!! This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if that becomes necessary. I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this list and there are some resources on the web. I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site. Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't turn back. As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are worth it. Not looking back, Tom P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you have available to you. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Steve, No, the ability to produce standalones for multiple platforms is there at the start. Then like in your case if you want to run the ide on a different platform then you should pay for that. I develop for both platforms and do most ide work on the Mac, only a couple of times did I need to open a stack on Windows in the ide, most times testing the standalone was enough. Also, I can share a folder on my Mac with Virtual PC and test immediately on the Mac and PC. Then I test on an actual PC hardware when I am close to finished. All in all, Rev's pricing is very comparable to other solutions. Tom On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Steve wrote: Thanks Tom, I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another platform are you just buying the ability to produce those executables or also run the ide on that platform? I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them pay when they actually need it. Steve On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!! This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if that becomes necessary. I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this list and there are some resources on the web. I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site. Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't turn back. As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are worth it. Not looking back, Tom P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you have available to you. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing
Graphic Design Tools
I see Tactile Media's site indexed at the RunRev site. Impressive graphic design. Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design, and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for inexpensive, easy graphic design tools? Thanks. Frank ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev, can Someone send me that MIDI Builder demo stack? :) Somebody here has to have it. I am sure there are others, but you could try the two mci stacks at www.FlexibleLearning.com/xtalk. One is specifically a midi player exemplar for rev, the other for mciSendString in general. /H ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: group syntax question
Frank- Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:26:49 AM, you wrote: Why not use hilitedButtonName? Yes, thanks, that's what I'm using now. As long as I'm careful about my naming conventions that does the trick for me. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
Jim- Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:45:22 AM, you wrote: I think it's simpler than that. (warning - it's Friday morning and the caffeine hasn't really taken effect yet) Consider any number in terms of its factors. By definition, factors come in pairs: the factors of 15 are 1 x 15, 3 x 5 the factors of 17 are 1 x 17 the factors of 18 are 1 x 18, 2 x 9, 3 x 6 The *only* exceptions to this are perfect squares, unless you want to count the same factor twice: the factors of 16 are 1 x 16, 2 x 8, and 4 Therefore, every switch will be toggled an even number of times and turned off except for the perfect squares. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Scope Problem on Standalones
David- Friday, November 25, 2005, 5:34:28 AM, you wrote: set itemDelimiter to :/ I'm surprised this works at all... -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: seems to meny If
Frank- Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:41:20 AM, you wrote: Another way to handle this is to create a custom property on the buttons and assign those stings to the custom property: ...and just for another way to do things, I'd be more inclined to stuff these into an array and get them from there for easy maintenance and expandability: put NextTrack into actionsA[JK] put NextTrack into actionsA[AB] put playpause into actionsA[JL] put back into actionsA[JM] -- etc. -- now look up the proper button and take action put it into tData get actionsA[tData] if it is not empty then send mouseUp to button it end if -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font problems (part two)
Wilhelm Thanks for the confirmation of my findings. From one crazy painter to another, it's a pleasure to try your tools ;) The engine leak is there as before. Scanning an 100X100 area of the image thumb brings down my computer immediately. it does take 4 or 5 successive runs to make it much slower here. But the effect is doubled each time... I just used fields as color units because that old stack of mine had them. I do not think (did not try yet) that graphics would make a difference. My logic is that displaying a field takes more resources than just a graphic... I could be wrong but needs testing... As I mentioned in the first part of my report (about IDE problems of Nov 22) the present version of the toolkit uses only *one* single field now, but with 19.800 color chars in it, which for a text really is not much. Thus we have about 20.000 fields less. Text, no, but 1000 of anything controls wise will cost a lot more than 20K's of text... This is why I went from graphics I could color to a single paint control and the performance showed right away the benefits... Note that painting was just as slow as creating the fields (though just an impression, im sure the paint is much faster)... your code is not much different than mine btw... Mine is overly complicated to allow differnet modes of drawing and types of colorimetric function parametrizing but your does have the fields overhead and that's where things go really slow. In my stack, there is not issues with speed like you had. There wasn't in the old model with graphics, and there isn't in the new with paint. My guess is that you are overloading something... Since the number of fields is constant, consider what changes... I tried to isolate it but hand to do some work and couldn't continue... cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com/taoo ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was Menubar Help
On Nov 25, 2005, at 2:59 AM, David Burgun wrote: It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To do this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the button, and type this in the message box: remove group 1 from this card It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under the card, because it's not on the card. In this case, if it's not in the card, then surely it's not in the stack and should not be available for Placing or whatver. This simply isn't true. It is possible for a group to exist in a stack _without_ being on any card in that stack. The above method will create such a stack/group. As Jacque pointed out, if there are more than one card in a stack and you delete the last card containing a group, that will also leave you with a stack containing backgrounds that are not on any card. I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part, but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show up in the app browser, allowing you to delete it. Yes. Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid of this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, great. Yes. So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that aren't in any card under the stack. No. it's a bug in RunRev. The only way a group could be created like that, is in a stack that exists in memory but not as a file. This is possible - once! But during the course of tracking this problem down I quit RunRev, restarted the machine and re-loaded RunRev. The Group was part of the stack where the error occured. When I created another stack the problem wasn't present, yet the Group in question was still in the Place Groups Sub-Menu. Besides all this I really don't think a Group can exist (or at least be accessible by RunRev), unless it is in a stack, and all stacks have at least one card, and they should appear in the App Browser anyway. You are correct that a group can't exist outside a stack. You are correct that a stack must have at least one card. You are incorrect that therefore the group must be in the card. You are incorrect that this is a bug. It is a limitation. The app browser doesn't display any contents for the stack itself -- this is a limitation. If the group _is_ on the card and _doesn't_ show up on that card in the app browser, _that_ would be a bug. But that's not what you described. How the group got there in the first place remains a question for investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix (assuming it is in fact a bug). Yes, It's a Bug - Shock Horror! There are loads of em in RunRev - Get used to it and stop being in denial! No denial here. I can view the report in bugzilla and see that there are currently 586 active bugs, which is far fewer than there were a few years ago. I submitted some of them, too. Most of mine have been closed (I haven't submitted any lately). As others have pointed out, sarcasm and hostility isn't likely to help things much. gc (done here) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
David- Friday, November 25, 2005, 8:16:30 AM, you wrote: Here's a question of my own on the subject. If we have 2 licenses one for Mac and one for Windows, is it ok for 2 developers to use the Mac version at the same time as long as they are not using the Windows version at EXACTLY the same time?? Or Vice Versa! IMO, licensing issues are better directed at the rev team at [EMAIL PROTECTED] All we can do here is guess at them. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or MetaCard. On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:05 AM, MITTAL Pradeep Kumar wrote: Is it possible to launch player from the webpage (with parameters of location mc files) ? There are flash plugin for browser . do we have same thing in revolution too?? Thanks for your help Best Regards Pradeep ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: seems to meny If
Hi Liam, I'm coming to the party late, but here's another way to streamline your code. If you're open to changing the button names, why not change them to their corresponding values of 'it'? For example, the label of btn AB would be NextTrack according to your original code. If the text on the button communicates something to the user, you can set the labels of the buttons to display whatever text you wish on the button itself. Then your code can be reduced to a single line: send mouseUp to btn it -- no need for an 'if' now Just another approach... Thanks - Phil Davis liamlambert wrote: how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way to write it if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button NextTrack if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button NextTrack if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button playpause if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button back if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button 1 if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button 2 if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button 3 if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button 4 if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button 5 if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button 6 if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button 7 if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button 8 if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button 9 if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button 10 if it contains IN then send mouseUp to button 11 if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button 12 thanks Liam L. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
Mark Wieder wrote: Jim- Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:45:22 AM, you wrote: I think it's simpler than that. (warning - it's Friday morning and the caffeine hasn't really taken effect yet) Consider any number in terms of its factors. By definition, factors come in pairs: the factors of 15 are 1 x 15, 3 x 5 the factors of 17 are 1 x 17 the factors of 18 are 1 x 18, 2 x 9, 3 x 6 The *only* exceptions to this are perfect squares, unless you want to count the same factor twice: the factors of 16 are 1 x 16, 2 x 8, and 4 Therefore, every switch will be toggled an even number of times and turned off except for the perfect squares. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, Mark. But I think that is essentially Charles solution. It is certainly simpler. (But not as rich, IMHO :)) For some reason I didn't get Issue 99 of the Run Rev list. I presume that is where my alternate approach appears, and what you are responding to. Jim ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
So a studio licence for a given platform lets you roll out on other platforms? The extra $199 is to use the ide on the other platforms? Guess I had it all wrong. Steve On 11/25/05, David Burgun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both If you get the studio version, you the IDE will run on one platform of your choice, and you can added the ability to run on additional platforms for a reduced price for each additional platform. You can build standalones to target any of the supported platforms though. If I were you, I'd just buy a studio license for one platform, this entitles you to one year of free updates and you can renew at the end of that. You can always buy an addtional platform when if and when you want to. The base system costs £199 (one host platform) and each additional host platform costs £133. Hope this helps Dave So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard. Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often? Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with) which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of my clients seems like learning time not well spent. Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Steven Fernandez (787) 647-6800 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [UPD] bitwise shifts
Sean Shao wrote: Sorry for the post earlier, but it seems that there's a small error in it.. Here are the 3 fixed bitwise shift operators (shiftLeft (), shiftRight () and shiftRightZero ()).. Basically there are some integer combinations that would make the other formulas fail and sometimes the shiftRightZero would return a negative integer (which is impossible).. So here are the three corrected functions: Thanks again for these functions, and for all the time it must have taken to figure out what you can do and what you can't. Alejandro got me interested in the md4digest function, so I tried it using your functions, and I'm afraid there is still one problem. One example that fails is put 6448964192 into tVar put bitwiseShiftRightZero(tVar, 29) into tResult put format(%08x %08x, tVar, tResult) into msg This results in 80636260 000C when it should give 80636260 0004 The problem is that 6448964192 is a positive number which has the sign bit set - i.e. it's larger than a single 32-bit positive integer can hold, but Rev 2.6.1 uses (I guess??) 64-bit ints if needed (??) I added the following (very inelegant) code to the start of each of your functions, and all appears to be now OK. repeat while p1 2^31 put p1 - 2^32 into p1 end repeat My attempt at the md4digest function now passes all the short test cases from the reference implementation, but still fails on the long ones . sigh :-( -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 24/11/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or MetaCard. It's really a shame there isn't. That would open up a whole new world of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base. Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or MetaCard. On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:05 AM, MITTAL Pradeep Kumar wrote: Is it possible to launch player from the webpage (with parameters of location mc files) ? There are flash plugin for browser . do we have same thing in revolution too?? Thanks for your help Best Regards Pradeep ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
PDF documentation
Ok, I've been through the videos, and I scanned some docs. But, I'm a couch documentation reader, not a sit-at-the-screen docs reader. Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can download/print, and do some more serious couch reading? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font problems (part two)
An additional remark concerning the reported engine leak (Windows XP and MacOS): The increments in script execution time occur probably in many scripts, if not in all, although for shorter scripts with no loops or limited loops this may be hardly noticeable. One example which I just tested: There are six buttons in the color pattern toolkit that can store the color values of a given image for further processing or later retrieving. The following script stores the values in a one-dimensional array and customproperty. put 0 into counter repeat for each Char C in fld 1 add 1 to counter put the backcolor of char counter of fld 1 into aColor[counter] end repeat set the customproperties[oldColors] of me to aColor For the roughly 20.000 chars this takes 550 milliseconds when the stack has been newly opened on my XP computer. For each subsequent running of the script an increment of 20 to 40 ms occurs, but this is an average increment, as it does not go up consistently. In between small decrements can happen, but overall the execution time goes up. After a number of about 30 runs the execution time of the above script reaches 1500 milliseconds. On the basis of this observation it is understandable that during a session with the toolkit - where all the time color values are put into arrays for faster processing or transforming inside the array or between two or more arrays - that performance gradually gets very slow and the engine may choke for a while. But never before using the additional scan feature illustrated in the test stack www.sanke.org/Software/ScanTest2700.zip I have experienced such a quick and devastating breakdown like I - and subsequently Xavier - have described in our posts. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: PDF documentation
Frank The official docs are available in printed form via the RunRev site, I think, but they take a very long time to get to the U.S. (at least last I checked). If you want to dive into Rev this weekend in PDF form, you can buy my Software at the Speed of Thought book, aimed primarily at beginners and early intermediate users. It's available at: http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html along with two smaller eBooks on more advanced topics. On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Frank R wrote: Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can download/print, and do some more serious couch reading? ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
Hi Frank, Welcome to RunReev! :-) Look here: http://support.runrev.com/resources/unsupported.php This is set of useful stacks that are provided by Runtime but not supported. It includes: sample encryption scripts, a timeline animation tool, a tool for doing text to speech on Linux and Unix, a MIDI music file builder, XML-RPC examples, XML Soap examples, an XML stack showing a scripted tree view, and a video capture example. http://downloads.runrev.com/resources/unsupported/unsupportedstacks.zip You could find useful many MIDI related stacks produced by UDI: http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/tool.html Among these stacks: http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/makeSMF133.hqx makeSMF make a MIDI file from strings that like a Play sentence of HyperTalk. e.g. C4q E G... This stack work with Revolution on Mac, OSX, Win, and other. http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/pmdPlayerRR12.hqx This is the pmd file player for RunRev. powered by makeSMF. http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/pmdKB11.hqx This is a software Piano-keyboard. powered by makeSMF. http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/rMusic11.hqx The stack which plays random music. powered by makeSMF http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/smf2Pmd.hqx It is a tool to convert a SMF( Standard Midi File ) into a pmd( The data which UxPlayMIDI/makeSMF use ) file. This is the 68K application that made with RunRev Have a nice day, al on Fri, 25 Nov 2005 Thomas McGrath III wrote: Frank, You might try the Shakobox by Hyperactive Software: http:// www.hyperactivesw.com/Resources.html On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:27 AM, Frank R wrote: Thanks everyone for the welcome and initial responses. Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev, can Someone send me that MIDI Builder demo stack? :) Somebody here has to have it. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Frank Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[ANN] Constellation to be unbundled from Gadget Suite on Monday 11-28-05
Friends and Colleagues, As some of you are aware, our company, Daniels Mara (www.daniels- mara.com/products) makes a suite of tools for Revolution developers. This suite includes Constellation (a property and script editor) and four other tools: Inspection Gadget, Object Gadget, Transcript Gadget and Time Gadget. These tools, especially Constellation with its tabbed interface for browsing scripts and properties together, have been very popular. We have been offering all of these products together as a suite for a bundled price of $60. Starting this Monday, November 28, we will unbundle Constellation from the Gadget Suite (as it's called). At that time, Constellation will cost $50 and the rest of the tools (without Constellation) will be sold as a suite for a bundled price of $25. If you want to take advantage of our lower pricing on the suite that includes Constellation, I would encourage you to get over to our site and make your purchases before Monday, November 28. Best, Jerry http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: PDF documentation
Dan - thanks for the response. I have seen your book, and I wish I could order it. I'm trying to evaluate this thing with no funds, and while it seems silly to say, I can't afford even a $30 download these days. Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank The official docs are available in printed form via the RunRev site, I think, but they take a very long time to get to the U.S. (at least last I checked). If you want to dive into Rev this weekend in PDF form, you can buy my Software at the Speed of Thought book, aimed primarily at beginners and early intermediate users. It's available at: http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html along with two smaller eBooks on more advanced topics. On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Frank R wrote: Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can download/print, and do some more serious couch reading? ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say that I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for Dreamcard. It at least opens the doors for more people to explore this intriguing tool. On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further. In my 20 years in the world of software, I can't tell you how many companies I have observed shoot themselves in the foot by having a great product but pricing it out of reach for the masses. The pricing that has Built companies has been - price it low to draw people in, get the revenue later with advanced features and with deployment licensing costs. Turbo Pascal was sold in huge quantities because it was a $49 product that many could afford. The same was true with the Initial pricing of many MS products. This company should offer DreamCard free - but, for free, Without the ability to deploy an app. The apps could only be run inside the IDE. This would give more people more than 30 days to race through the product, and it would defer collecting revenue until someone actually baked something of Value - that could be sold. At that point, the programmer has an easy time paying the bucks for a development license. I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will probably end there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the finish line with something of value to sell. This product needs to shoot for Volume. That means - further aggressive pricing. My four cents. Frank ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Adjusted for inflation and the price of gas, Turbo Pascal would sell for $99 today. You're right on the money. Best, Jerry On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Frank R wrote: Turbo Pascal was sold in huge quantities because it was a $49 product that many could afford. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Frank, I won't argue your points. I'm sure others will. I will say that rev is the best solution I've seen and worked with. I pay for great software like Photoshop, Illustrator, and Revolution and they have MADE ME MONEY, so I don't mind paying for them. I'm sure after 30 days you could download a new trial version, and I'm sure if you contacted RunRev about your situation they can help you. Tom On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Frank R wrote: This company should offer DreamCard free - but, for free, Without the ability to deploy an app. The apps could only be run inside the IDE. This would give more people more than 30 days to race through the product, and it would defer collecting revenue until someone actually baked something of Value - that could be sold. At that point, the programmer has an easy time paying the bucks for a development license. I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will probably end there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the finish line with something of value to sell. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Messages in setprop...
Hi, I'm working in a setprop of the property set, that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or property set, the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur? Example: setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue switch propName case Prop1 -- (1) set the MyPropSet[Prop3] of me to value break case Prop2 ... -- do something... ... break case Prop3 ... ...do something... (2) ... break end switch end setprop When i set a value to a property Prop1, it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2). I hope you might understand. Best regards, Gilberto Cuba PD: I request my excuses for my english. I'm speaking spanish. :DDD ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font problems (part two)
Xavier, I just followed your suggestion to try to use graphics instead of fields - something I had also experimented with some time ago. I substituted the 2700 fields of test stack ScanTest2700 with graphics (and again want to mention that my present toolkit stack contains only *one* field now containing color information) The result for three passes with the scan button: Stack with graphics 2371, 7930, and 13565 milliseconds. Stack with fields 2667, 7611, 13109 milliseconds. I would say there are no statistically significant differences between the two stacks (we would have to continue to get a possible significance on the basis of more data). Cheers, Wilhelm http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest myself and my money in Revolution. I updated to 2.61 of the IDE and picked up some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a little bummed that it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and examples are much easier to grok) As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective, and I thought I would share it with the list. http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled. I feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything - Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution, and I think the reason is because I'm rushing it. Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming environment promises to save 90% of it : ) Thoughts? Todd -- Todd Higgins [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: PDF documentation
Hi Frank, maybe this is of interest for you, not a PDF, but a free eBook (with printable Text), mostly geared at basics and multimedia: http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html All the best, Malte -- ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in Ten Years
Ain't that the truth. I think those of us, (me), who hope to find easier solutions to the problems of computing and creating with a computer are really just victims of the Apple marketing department. Greg Smith ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
On 11/26/05 12:13 AM, Todd Higgins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest myself and my money in Revolution. I updated to 2.61 of the IDE and picked up some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a little bummed that it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and examples are much easier to grok) You can upgrade to 2.0 now with discount! As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective, and I thought I would share it with the list. http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html Really good article! :-) With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled. I feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything - Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution, and I think the reason is because I'm rushing it. Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming environment promises to save 90% of it : ) Thoughts? -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Graphic Design Tools
on Fri, 25 Nov 2005 Frank R wrote: Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design, and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for inexpensive, easy graphic design tools? Look for Xara and RealDraw Pro: http://www.xara.com/ $79.00 http://www.mediachance.com/realdraw/ $60.00 Have a nice day. al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Frank R wrote: Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say that I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for Dreamcard. It at least opens the doors for more people to explore this intriguing tool. On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further. *Could* go further, perhaps. *Needs* too? I'm not convinced. How many commercial applications have you shipped, and how many of those do you currently support and maintain? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
Frank R wrote: There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or MetaCard. It's really a shame there isn't. That would open up a whole new world of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/031271.html http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/NetApps.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
Maybe one of the most interesting things about Rev/MC is the way that it can be seen as both a useful application in its own right , and a development environment. I jumped on Hypercard as soon as I got my first Mac (1990, a Mac Classic), and a great deal of what I did with it (and still do with Rev) was what other people might have done with spreadsheets and single-user databases etc. For instance, I've always rolled my own accounts stacks that work the way that I think of my business (such as it is), no double-entry stuff which I still don't understand, just money in, money out, print an invoice, keep track of what I spend etc. and at any time I can get a picture of where I stand in a form that makes sense to me. (As a self-employed musician, I pay an accountant to do the real accounts and tax returns etc). It seems to me that anyone who can get reasonably complicated spreadsheets together is capable of using Rev to do useful work. Along the way, I've developed a great enthusiasm for computer programming, and have learnt quite a lot of stuff about a wide variety of subjects through finding little programming projects. Currently investigating gambling strategies (as a self-employed musician, it'd be nice to find something steady g) But I certainly can't deny that it's taken me 10+ years to get to the point where I'm making relatively complicated apps that actually work. And even then, they're not close to being shippable, sellable commercial software, but then that's never been my aim. Mark On 25 Nov 2005, at 22:13, Todd Higgins wrote: During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest myself and my money in Revolution. I updated to 2.61 of the IDE and picked up some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a little bummed that it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and examples are much easier to grok) As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective, and I thought I would share it with the list. http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled. I feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything - Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution, and I think the reason is because I'm rushing it. Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming environment promises to save 90% of it : ) Thoughts? Todd -- Todd Higgins [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
seems to meny If
Thank you everybody for your input It was all very useful me . The letters in my code are sent from a matrix key pad connected to a weeder Digital i/o module I use the key pad to select tracks from a play list and to line up the next sound cue ( for live Theatre). It is really great to get all this feed back and some very elegant solutions . Thanks to you all liamlambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a standalone as a helper application. Technically speaking, maybe true. Practically speaking, definitely not true. Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank R wrote: There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or MetaCard. It's really a shame there isn't. That would open up a whole new world of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in Ten Years
It's not my own feeling... Apple give us one of the best unix available today for less money than a professional grade Linux distribution. About getting the best development tools we need to design and code more great rock-solid softs in less time, we would have to spend in using other environments, including Java or Python, Rev is one of the very best candidate and this list is the right place to get very kindly help in going head with it :-) Best Regards, Le 25 nov. 05 à 23:48, Greg Smith a écrit : Ain't that the truth. I think those of us, (me), who hope to find easier solutions to the problems of computing and creating with a computer are really just victims of the Apple marketing department. Greg Smith ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores 100, rue de Paris F - 77140 Nemours [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] GSM: +33 6 03 95 77 70 Pro: +33 1 64 45 05 33 Fax: +33 1 64 45 05 33 http://www.sahores-conseil.com/ WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP Mutualiser les deltas de productivité ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
Frank R wrote: Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a standalone as a helper application. Technically speaking, maybe true. Practically speaking, definitely not true. Practically speaking, almost no one would have a Rev browser plugin pre-installed as they do with Flash. So whether they download and install yet another plugin, or download and install a helper app, in neither case will they get the ubiquity which is the primary benefit of a browser-based app. If you can find the subset of uses for which the need to install a runtime engine isn't a problem, then what significant difference does it make whether the app runs within the confines of a browser window or is free to make use of its own windows? Flash won the plugin wars long ago. If something absolutely must run within the confines of a browser window, Flash, Java, or AJAX are the best answers. If the customer finds it acceptable to download and install a runtime engine, Rev makes a great contender as it is today. Three useful examples: An AOL-like Internet service bundled with Rev: Development-Plugins-GoRevNet A net app that downloads and plays interactice geospatial info: http://ddm.geo.umass.edu/ Engineering courseware delivered in a custom net app: http://reactorlab.net/ -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Not to beat this topic to death but For my purposes of wanting to develop with rev on win+mac I would buy dreamcard for one platform and studio for another. I could then develop on both but only compile something on one. Is dreamcard the same as studio but without the ability to produce standalone? Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiplatform Revolution
Steve, Don't take this the wrong way, but you really should contact RunRev directly. They can help you decide on the best approach for what you want to do. I did and they were very helpful when I was trying to decide. Just off the top of my head this idea does not sound like the best idea. I may be wrong but please contact the RunRev team and I know they will help you. Tom On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to beat this topic to death but For my purposes of wanting to develop with rev on win+mac I would buy dreamcard for one platform and studio for another. I could then develop on both but only compile something on one. Is dreamcard the same as studio but without the ability to produce standalone? Thanks Steve ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Hello Frank, It's been a long time since I posted to the list, but I thought I'd add my perspective in regards to pricing. You wrote: The pricing that has Built companies has been - price it low to draw people in, get the revenue later with advanced features and with deployment licensing costs. Revolution already *is* that later version with the advanced features. ;) I think most of the users consider Revolution to be Enterprise quality and is up to virtually any task that you can throw in it's direction. I know I do. Quick research: DreamCard: United States Dollars = 99.00 USD United Kingdom Pounds = 57.71 GBP Revolution: United States Dollars = 299.00 USD United Kingdom Pounds = 174.29 GBP Revolution's closest ancestor in the family tree (Meta-Card) sold for around $995.00 USD, so with the many additions and improvements, the price point today is a real bargain. With the current feature set and ability to deploy on three major platforms considered, it's a great bargain! Since Runtime Revolution (the company) is based in the United Kingdom, I'd say that from their perspective, it's already priced pretty low. The principle owners, employees and investors all have living expenses based on the British Pound rather than the dollar. Forgetting any potential R.O.Ifor a second, just the cost of paying salaries and doing business in general must be put into the proper perspective, price wise. Last perspective: I work for a company here in the U.S. who's primary marketing strategy seems to be lower pricing, lower pricing and lower pricing. (No, the name doesn't sound anything like Walm..t) While a certain volume is always an important factor for most companies, having everyone working twice as hard just to maintain profit levels for the previous 6 months cannot last forever. I think we all would like to see Revolution prosper into the future. :) Sorry if I've sounded the least bit argumentative, because that's certainly not my intent... Just a little food for thought. -Dave- ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Frank. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't *entirely* agree but I don't think you're off the deep end, either. You said, I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will probably end there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the finish line with something of value to sell. I noticed the other day that one or Revolution's very few competitors, RealBasic, has an interesting policy that I hadn't been aware of before. When your evaluation license expires, they have an option on the notification dialog to request an extension of time to continue the evaluation. For kicks, I hit that option and within a short time I got a new eval license in email. That seems sensible to me. Rev *is* a big product and although I know that once you know how productive you can be its price seems if anything too low, the fact is that if you don't know that for sure, forking over a few hundred bucks to confirm your suspicions may be asking too much of some folks. Obviously the company can track such requests and decide at some point that you've had long enough to evaluate the product and not grant any extensions. That would keep tire-kickers from using the product and never buying it. OTOH, Frank, if you get to 30 days and you've actually spent serious time with Revolution you will have built at least a few things, perhaps even part of your planned first application, and then to decide that you can't afford to pay for a tool you're not sure you can use to produce something of value to sell may be a very short- sighted decision indeed. I hope you don't make that one. ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Thanks, Dan, and others for the dialog on this. I just have seen so many times in my life products that had So much potential for a larger base, only for it never to happen because of the steep entry costs. The $99 entry point for Dreamcard is certainly good - and better than the entry point for many tools out there. OTOH, I would always argue to Any tool maker that - the revenue generated by tire kickers is minimal. Loss of that revenue would not significantly change the financial equation for any tool maker. But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your applications. You catch more long term fish that way. Part of this is also personal for me. I lived times when I could throw money at tools until one stuck to the wall, and now I live during times when that is impossible. Anyway, glad to have found the tool - and this list. Looks like a good crowd and very helpful dialog. Frank Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't *entirely* agree but I don't think you're off the deep end, either. You said, I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will probably end there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the finish line with something of value to sell. I noticed the other day that one or Revolution's very few competitors, RealBasic, has an interesting policy that I hadn't been aware of before. When your evaluation license expires, they have an option on the notification dialog to request an extension of time to continue the evaluation. For kicks, I hit that option and within a short time I got a new eval license in email. That seems sensible to me. Rev *is* a big product and although I know that once you know how productive you can be its price seems if anything too low, the fact is that if you don't know that for sure, forking over a few hundred bucks to confirm your suspicions may be asking too much of some folks. Obviously the company can track such requests and decide at some point that you've had long enough to evaluate the product and not grant any extensions. That would keep tire-kickers from using the product and never buying it. OTOH, Frank, if you get to 30 days and you've actually spent serious time with Revolution you will have built at least a few things, perhaps even part of your planned first application, and then to decide that you can't afford to pay for a tool you're not sure you can use to produce something of value to sell may be a very short- sighted decision indeed. I hope you don't make that one. ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
WHOOO!!! I would definitely not go for this. The hassles alone trying to license for deployment only to find out the product I try to sell has no chance in a big market or any market. That is too much. I would not buy a tool like that. I much prefer a couple hundred dollars to create useful utilities for myself and then have the chance to try and deploy a couple of products for sale with out the risk. I would gladly pay double what Rev is asking for the opportunity to have a free license to deploy what and where and how I want to with no more money, ever, going to them after the initial purchase. I think this would reduce long term revenues and invite nothing but free tire kickers, heck it would turn me off from trying to take big risks building products I thought might be good but wasn't sure would be good. I'm sorry but I very much disagree with this mentality completely. Tom On Nov 25, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Frank R wrote: But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your applications. You catch more long term fish that way. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [UPD] bitwise shifts
Thanks again for these functions, and for all the time it must have taken to figure out what you can do and what you can't. Not a problem, but I'm learning quickly that I can barely do bit math ;-) Up until I started working on SHA-1 I never used bit math, but here's to learning new things =) Alejandro got me interested in the md4digest function, so I tried it using your functions, and I'm afraid there is still one problem. As much as I'd love to say that they're perfect, they're not.. If there's anyone out there who actually knows about these things and wants to help us out, please speak up =) The problem is that 6448964192 is a positive number which has the sign bit set - i.e. it's larger than a single 32-bit positive integer can hold, but Rev 2.6.1 uses (I guess??) 64-bit ints if needed (??) I did more updating of the functions last night, but I didn't feel like spamming the list with _another_ change so I've decided to work out more of the functions before posting again.. The functions should check if the data is signed or not and do the appropriate math.. I'll run your numbers through and see if I can spot anything that needs to be adjusted.. I'm only on 2.0.3 so I can't even do full 32-bit math let alone 64-bit =/ _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
David Coker wrote: Quick research: DreamCard: United States Dollars = $99 Revolution: United States Dollars = $299 Some comparative data: RealBASIC Standard $99 RealBASIC Pro $399 Macromedia Flash: $699 Macromedia Director: $1,199 (per platform) Toolbook Instructor: $2,495 (only one platform available) Two factors to consider: 1. the value of price-positioning 2. the lower the price, the more support costs will rise disproportionate to sales by attracting users with less professional experience developing applications. If one feels strongly about the potential for lower price points there's nothing stopping them from demonstrating that point with their own product and report back here with the hard data on how the price drop affected total ROI. Personally, I think Rev is priced too low. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Good points, Richard. On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Personally, I think Rev is priced too low. I can't say I disagree. Back in the 80's -- I know, that's SO last century! -- there were two Smalltalks on the market. Digitalk sold for something like $99. ParcPlace Systems Smalltalk-80 sold for something like $1,000. While there were lots of differences between them, it was entirely possible to build most kinds of apps with the lower-priced product. I asked PPS founder Adele Goldberg one day how come she didn't lower her prices to compete for the broader market with Digitalk. I'll never forget her answer. People who pay $99 for a development tool expect to learn it in a few hours, master it in a few days and hound tech support unmercifully at no cost. People who pay $1,000 for a development tool take it and their work seriously, understand that it requires a significant effort to learn and master, and are not only willing to pay for support, they are eager to do so because they don't want the company that makes their favorite tool to go out of business. She allowed as how she'd rather have far fewer customers who were professional not only in their work but in their attitude than 1 million hobbyists. In some ways, this discussion is just a rehash of the old battle over who the market for Revolution is or ought to be: professional coders or hobbyists. I know RunRev disagrees with me -- and so do many of you on this list -- but I maintain you cannot adequately serve both markets. ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Frank Not one major development tool has ever succeeded charging for runtime delivery. Not one. You buy a C++ compiler, you don't pay the compiler maker for each copy of your app. Companies that have tried runtime royalty deals over the years -- and there have been many, with a staggering array of ideas for the best way to structure the fees -- have abandoned their plan or gone out of business or both. And with so many free (open source and otherwise) compilers and IDEs out there, it would be suicide for anyone to try to charge per-copy distribution fees in today's market. On Nov 25, 2005, at 7:21 PM, Frank R wrote: But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your applications. You catch more long term fish that way. ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
On 11/25/05 10:27 PM, Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People who pay $99 for a development tool expect to learn it in a few hours, master it in a few days and hound tech support unmercifully at no cost. People who pay $1,000 for a development tool take it and their work seriously, understand that it requires a significant effort to learn and master, and are not only willing to pay for support, they are eager to do so because they don't want the company that makes their favorite tool to go out of business. This was the same philosophy espoused by Scott Raney, when he was selling MetaCard for $999 and nothing else... of course, that was until RunRev picked it up... :-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
On 11/25/05, Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And with so many free (open source and otherwise) compilers and IDEs out there, it would be suicide for anyone to try to charge per-copy distribution fees in today's market. Total agreement here. I've got a whole tool chest full of other development tools at my disposal and even though I feel that Rev beats out the whole bunch, I would have never even considered it with that type of licensing scheme. Although I'm certainly not a professional developer (yet), I would definitely fall into the serious hobbiest category, using Rev mostly for work related projects. I currently have the Studio version for Windows and a DreamCard license for Linux, with plans of buying the 2.6 version for my new Mac-Mini before year end (or shortly thereafter). I see it as a really good investment for the future. -Dave- ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled. I feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything - Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution, and I think the reason is because I'm rushing it. My advice would be to find a SIMPLE project that you can see some value in but that is not too demanding. Write it and then start to improve it. Some people like to work by laying out the interface completely before starting any scripting. I tend to work by adding a few controls, scripting them and then adding more. It just depends which makes you feel more comfortable. For example, a lot of people start with a simple address book. Just write a stack with one entry per card that stores names and addresses. Then add a search routine. Next add reporting, so you can print a list of phone numbers. Then perhaps you want to be able to click a button and email a person in your list. If your database is getting big, you may want to explore different data storage mechanisms, perhaps even going to an external database like Valentina or MySQL. Now work out how to make it into a standalone. If you work your way through this progression, I am sure you will have a much better understanding of Rev's and your capabilities. Then you might want to go on to something more complex e.g. heavy database management, or some utility to integrate with your servers. Don't start off trying to integrate a multi-user external database with TCP sockets and C++ externals. All those things can be done, but they are not easy. Your need to get to know how Rev works normally: stacks cards, button, fields - basic stuff - before you start to work with the more esoteric parts of the system. As a starting point, I highly recommend that you have a look at the Scripting conference stacks. They start with very basic stuff and build on that. And remember, there are a lot of very experienced people on this list, so no matter what problems you encounter, ask and someone will be sure to help. HTH, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
