Re: New user just introducing myself...
On 23/2/05 4:00 am, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) Somehow the Getting Started stuff fell out of v2.5 -- not sure how that happened, but I'm sure they're rushing an update which will restore that critical missing element. Actually, there is lots of new Getting Started material in v2.5. Its in the Learning Center, within revOnline. You'll find video and PDF guides that teach the key aspects of the product you need to know, as well as 10 fully commented and documented Sample Projects to take apart and learn from, and 50 Sample Scripts. You can also find the Video / PDF guides on our web site at: http://support.runrev.com/tutorials/ Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Whenever I learn a new language I read the Language Guide cover to cover. Well, that's a lie -- what I really do is skim it. But even just skimming will give you the lay of the land, and you'd be surprised how much you'll retain from that. Wait - there's a Language Guide? Where the heck is that? I was asking about that (or thought I was, under the dark influence of DayQuil) several days ago, and got (nearly) laughed at by someone on this list. So there ARE manuals? I don't care if they are in PDF, but really - there ARE manuals? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Mikey wrote: Whenever I learn a new language I read the Language Guide cover to cover. Well, that's a lie -- what I really do is skim it. But even just skimming will give you the lay of the land, and you'd be surprised how much you'll retain from that. Wait - there's a Language Guide? Where the heck is that? In recent versions the language is documented in the Transcript Dictionary. Documentation is available through Help-Documentation, or clicking the button labeled Documentation at the right of the toolbar. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
On 2/23/05 8:42 AM, Mikey wrote: Whenever I learn a new language I read the Language Guide cover to cover. Well, that's a lie -- what I really do is skim it. But even just skimming will give you the lay of the land, and you'd be surprised how much you'll retain from that. Wait - there's a Language Guide? Where the heck is that? I was asking about that (or thought I was, under the dark influence of DayQuil) several days ago, and got (nearly) laughed at by someone on this list. So there ARE manuals? I don't care if they are in PDF, but really - there ARE manuals? The manual is the Help system. The stuff you are most likely to want are the FAQ and Topics sections, until you get to the point where you need dictionary syntax definitions. The printed manuals, which are available for purchase separately, are just printouts of the same material for those who prefer hard copy they can read in the bathroom. ;) The printed version is not entirely up to date at this point, so the online Help system is actually more accurate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
On Feb 23, 2005, at 3:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: The printed manuals, which are available for purchase separately, are just printouts of the same material for those who prefer hard copy they can read in the bathroom. ;) The printed version is not entirely up to date at this point, so the online Help system is actually more accurate. I've got an iPAQ, wireless net, and VNC! all my needs for RevDocs in awkward places are now covered! :-D Andre -- Andre Alves Garzia 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Mikey, You can download an RTF version of the documentation, but it's from RR 2.1 at my site: bottom of page: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Links.htm Or, if you send a real nice message to Jerry Daniels he may let you beta test his 'Transcript Gadget' which is an incredibly helpful Transcript Reference stack which also has the ability to print (nicely I might add) to PDF or Printer. It's over 1400 pages though! Jerry is at jerry(at)daniels-mara.com BTW, it also has the rather cool ability to be the default help stack so that when you right-click a word in the script editor it launches instead of the default documentation. best, Chipp Mikey wrote: Wait - there's a Language Guide? Where the heck is that? I was asking about that (or thought I was, under the dark influence of DayQuil) several days ago, and got (nearly) laughed at by someone on this list. So there ARE manuals? I don't care if they are in PDF, but really - there ARE manuals? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and comments. I most certainly will not hesitate to ask a questions as I journey down the road to becoming a Revolution builder ;-) Kevin, I agree that there is a lot of high quality introductory material included with 2.5. Its just that right now I can only attack Rev with small chunks of time and a tutorial PDF would make it easier to keep track of where I've been and where I plan to go... I would love to take a weekend and just immerse myself and explore all of the videos and scripts and projects, but until that weekend comes I need to just chip away at it. That's why I bought Dan's book (which I'm anxiously waiting for :-) to help keep me on track. Regards, Todd Feb 23, 2005, at 6:44 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: On 23/2/05 4:00 am, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) Somehow the Getting Started stuff fell out of v2.5 -- not sure how that happened, but I'm sure they're rushing an update which will restore that critical missing element. Actually, there is lots of new Getting Started material in v2.5. Its in the Learning Center, within revOnline. You'll find video and PDF guides that teach the key aspects of the product you need to know, as well as 10 fully commented and documented Sample Projects to take apart and learn from, and 50 Sample Scripts. You can also find the Video / PDF guides on our web site at: http://support.runrev.com/tutorials/ Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Todd Higgins ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Todd Higgins wrote: Like Len Morgan (another Revolution beginner on the list - Hi Len) I am having a hard time grokking Revolution. It seems like most people who come to Revolution have had previous experience with Hypercard Personally, I feel that absolutely must change for Rev to become truly popular. HyperCard's been dead for years, and most of its fans have already found Rev or something else that floats their boat. We can't rely on the handful of people still walking the decks of that sunken ship forever. So you're the IDEAL guinea pig. Welcome. :) I hope you'll post every question that comes into your mind, as much as you feel like typing. There are a lot of newcomers here who are less vocal, so don't be worried that it won't interest folks here. Just about everything interests folks here. Not only are posts from someone like you valuable to the hundreds here in your position, but they are enormously valuable to those of us who do training and to RunRev themselves, as they serve to help us see the product through eyes we no longer have: new eyes seeing it for the first time. When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) Somehow the Getting Started stuff fell out of v2.5 -- not sure how that happened, but I'm sure they're rushing an update which will restore that critical missing element. But in the meantime you're in the minority who likes reading manuals so you're already off to a powerful start. :) What other good habits would I do well to develop? Whenever I learn a new language I read the Language Guide cover to cover. Well, that's a lie -- what I really do is skim it. But even just skimming will give you the lay of the land, and you'd be surprised how much you'll retain from that. Like most things, it's often less important to know everything than to just know where to find out about everything. A skim through the Language Guide will imprint things in your mind which will help you hunt down the details when you need them later. It'll also spark ideas, as you come across thing you hadn't thought about before and go, Wow, that's pretty cool. Andre Garzia wrote: The four things I think no xTalker should ever live without are: * the altToolbar plugins. * the devolution toolkit by Richard from Fourth World * The revNET plugin. Also by Fourth World * the PrefsBuilder plugin by Frederic Rinaldi All good stuff and worth using. But speaking for my stuff: - revNet is already pre-installed; see Development-Plugins-GoRevNet - devolution can be useful, but I would encourage you to work with the native IDE first before getting too loaded down with extras. You'll appreciate the extras more that way, and there's enough in the Rev IDE that I'm always concerned about overwhelming someone. devolution is free to use so you can always pick it up any time when you get the urge to explore. Having done a lot of Transcript as a second language training over the years, I've found the learning curve often follows this pattern: Day one: What the hell is going on? Why doesn't anything work like I expect? I hate this damn thing. Two days: Omigawd, the potential is incredible! If only I knew how to use it all... Two weeks: After reading the language guide and trying some things out, I'm able to do truly productive work. One month: Now I can do productive work efficiently. Three months: With the flexibility of the language and the handy tools in Revolution, I'm seeing slightly greater productivity than in my formerly-favorite tool I'd used for years. Six months: I love this thing. One year: I love this thing like no other. I look forward to reading another few dozens posts from you. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
re: New user just introducing myself...
What other good habits would I do well to develop? Also, what plugins or externals do people consider essential to the Revolution development experience? I am a relative newbie to Revolution, and had previously used good ol' Pascal so a new way of thinking was required. I found a good way of getting the hang of it was to go through the 'employee database' tutorial stack until I could understand most or all of it. In fact I think there was a deliberate bug left in the script by Mr Gaskin relating to display of employee images. When I worked out a fix for that then I knew I was on my way. By the way 'Inspector gadget' is a very handy plugin allowing inspection by hovering. http://daniels-mara.com/inspector/ regards Martin Blackman ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Be Welcome Todd, First, be warned, after Revolution you will never want to code again in any other enviroment ever. :-D You did the best thing ever to a newbie which is ordering Dan's Book, if I'd had such book when I was starting rev, man, I would be very very very happy, I think I'll take my two copies to the Revolution Masters Sumit to get them signed! :D Externals are very specific things, I for example can't live without RevZeroConf external for most of my work is network related and I make heavy use of ZerConf/Rendevouz features. The four things I think no xTalker should ever live without are: * the altToolbar plugins. Chipp from Altuit made a nice plugin toolbar with user manageable altPlugins. They cover a broad range of tools but the most usefull for me is altArchive which will save backups of your stack when you save it, like incremental backups so that you can rollback. I don't use my save button anymore... Another cool one is their HTML editor plugin which is very handy and altBackdrop which is also handy. You can see them all at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm * the devolution toolkit by Richard from Fourth World. It's a toolkit that do more then replace the standard tool palettes, it provides many aditional features and tools. I like for example being able to access stack and object scripts in a quick way, also I like the tools bundled with it specially the form maker, the camera tool (used every single day, almost made a standalone out of it) and the desktop tool, and theres much more.. You can see more of Devolution here: http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html * The revNET plugin. Also by Fourth World, this is an AOL-like online journal and resource index specifically for Revolution and MetaCard Developers. RevNet's index of downloadable stacks provides a form so you can add your own stacks, making them instantly available to all RevNet users. Also contains a convenient index to the Sons of Thunder Revolution Tips archive, links to Web pages devoted to Revolution and MetaCard, and more. (yes, I copy Pasted the about text) download it here: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/index.html * the PrefsBuilder plugin by Frederic Rinaldi. I think this is the plugin I am using most today. After learning about this plugin during the EuroRevDev Conference, I patched all my apps to make use of this really easy to use preference stack. All your prefs/settings/defaults needs are plain easy with it. Here: http://rinaldicollection.free.fr/ Another thing I like doing is seeing other people apps made with Rev, I do this for inspiration, to see how good we can get and esoteric stuff like that. This list is the best resource to rev, feel free to drop emails! :D Cheers and welcome andre On Feb 19, 2005, at 7:55 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: Hi Everyone, I purchased Dreamcard last fall and I upgraded to Revolution last month just in time to take advantage of the AltBrowser/MagicCarpet Xmas combo (Thanks Kevin and Chipp for the generous offer!) I have learned quite a lot about Revolution by reading the list (though I don't know how anyone can keep up with all of the traffic) and I want the makers of Revolution to know that part of the reason I decided to go with Revolution was because of the high quality (and personable) nature of the list. Like Len Morgan (another Revolution beginner on the list - Hi Len) I am having a hard time grokking Revolution. It seems like most people who come to Revolution have had previous experience with Hypercard (alas I was not so lucky, the first Mac I bought was a IIsi and it only came with the Hypercard player and I could not find the full version.) I am an experienced computer user, who has dabbled with Applescript and some shell scripting for my customers, but I have never worked in an IDE and have never developed a GUI tool. (My daytime job is System Engineer where I work on OS X Servers and W2K Servers) When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) What other good habits would I do well to develop? Also, what plugins or externals do people consider essential to the Revolution development experience? I have read about a few on the list, but I'm not sure if the apply to me (or if I would just be unnecessarily complicating my learning curve) Any suggestions will be gratefully accepted! Thanks Todd -- Todd Higgins ASG Systems Engineer MICRO Technology Groupe, Inc voice: 215-788-6811 fax: 215-788-1766 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.mtgroupe.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Andre Alves Garzia 2004 BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org ___ use-revolution
New user just introducing myself...
Hi Everyone, I purchased Dreamcard last fall and I upgraded to Revolution last month just in time to take advantage of the AltBrowser/MagicCarpet Xmas combo (Thanks Kevin and Chipp for the generous offer!) I have learned quite a lot about Revolution by reading the list (though I don't know how anyone can keep up with all of the traffic) and I want the makers of Revolution to know that part of the reason I decided to go with Revolution was because of the high quality (and personable) nature of the list. Like Len Morgan (another Revolution beginner on the list - Hi Len) I am having a hard time grokking Revolution. It seems like most people who come to Revolution have had previous experience with Hypercard (alas I was not so lucky, the first Mac I bought was a IIsi and it only came with the Hypercard player and I could not find the full version.) I am an experienced computer user, who has dabbled with Applescript and some shell scripting for my customers, but I have never worked in an IDE and have never developed a GUI tool. (My daytime job is System Engineer where I work on OS X Servers and W2K Servers) When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) What other good habits would I do well to develop? Also, what plugins or externals do people consider essential to the Revolution development experience? I have read about a few on the list, but I'm not sure if the apply to me (or if I would just be unnecessarily complicating my learning curve) Any suggestions will be gratefully accepted! Thanks Todd -- Todd Higgins ASG Systems Engineer MICRO Technology Groupe, Inc voice: 215-788-6811 fax: 215-788-1766 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.mtgroupe.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
Hey, Todd. Welcome to the Revolution!! -James On Feb 19, 2005, at 4:55 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: Hi Everyone, I purchased Dreamcard last fall and I upgraded to Revolution last month just in time to take advantage of the AltBrowser/MagicCarpet Xmas combo (Thanks Kevin and Chipp for the generous offer!) I have learned quite a lot about Revolution by reading the list (though I don't know how anyone can keep up with all of the traffic) and I want the makers of Revolution to know that part of the reason I decided to go with Revolution was because of the high quality (and personable) nature of the list. Like Len Morgan (another Revolution beginner on the list - Hi Len) I am having a hard time grokking Revolution. It seems like most people who come to Revolution have had previous experience with Hypercard (alas I was not so lucky, the first Mac I bought was a IIsi and it only came with the Hypercard player and I could not find the full version.) I am an experienced computer user, who has dabbled with Applescript and some shell scripting for my customers, but I have never worked in an IDE and have never developed a GUI tool. (My daytime job is System Engineer where I work on OS X Servers and W2K Servers) When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) What other good habits would I do well to develop? Also, what plugins or externals do people consider essential to the Revolution development experience? I have read about a few on the list, but I'm not sure if the apply to me (or if I would just be unnecessarily complicating my learning curve) Any suggestions will be gratefully accepted! Thanks Todd -- Todd Higgins ASG Systems Engineer MICRO Technology Groupe, Inc voice: 215-788-6811 fax: 215-788-1766 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.mtgroupe.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: New user just introducing myself...
On Feb 19, 2005, at 1:55 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: Like Len Morgan (another Revolution beginner on the list - Hi Len) I am having a hard time grokking Revolution. It seems like most people who come to Revolution have had previous experience with Hypercard (alas I was not so lucky, the first Mac I bought was a IIsi and it only came with the Hypercard player and I could not find the full version.) I am an experienced computer user, who has dabbled with Applescript and some shell scripting for my customers, but I have never worked in an IDE and have never developed a GUI tool. (My daytime job is System Engineer where I work on OS X Servers and W2K Servers) The syntax for Revolution is very similar to AppleScript. It is difficult to write an application in AppleScript. I've done it but that isn't what it is really for (or shell scripting either). Revolution, like AppleScript, makes it fairly easy to read programs that someone else wrote. An AppleScript tells some other program what to do. You might change the metaphor for Revolution to be that an object (button, URL, external event, field, whatever) tells something within your program what to do, display something, get information or put information from somewhere external to your application. When I was evaluating Revolution previously, I remember seeing a tutorial section under help. I couldn't seem to find it in the 2.5 version, so I just ordered Dan's book : ) I think you will like his book and it will give you a pretty good idea of what you are asking here. What other good habits would I do well to develop? Also, what plugins or externals do people consider essential to the Revolution development experience? I have read about a few on the list, but I'm not sure if the apply to me (or if I would just be unnecessarily complicating my learning curve) Any suggestions will be gratefully accepted! I haven't needed any externals yet and while I do find some of the plugins useful at times I actually use them fairly sparingly. Navigator is pretty useful once you get going but I wouldn't consider it a newbie tool. Unlike traditional programming environments that don't have an IDE (or AppleScript that doesn't really have an interface at all), Revolution turns the paradyme around. Draw your screen, place buttons, fields, graphics, menus, etc. first then assign actions to those objects. Pretend like you know what you want your application to do, draw it the way you want to see it, and then program the objects (buttons, menu actions, external triggers, whatever...). Welcome to the Revolution. Bill Vlahos ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
