Re: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
I am working on two such filters. The first is a brute force recognizer looking for matches to standard shapes (point, line, angle, triangle, rectangle, polygon, oval, conic and cylindric sections) and how closely a user drawing matches platonic forms of these (exp. right and equilateral triangles, square, right rectangle, golden rectangle, parallelogram, circle) at any rotation. The second filter is one I have been working on for 15 years and is a universal pattern engine which does the same as above but without a set of arbitrarily pre-defined target shapes. From the self-evolving AI perspective from which I work, I consider the first filter set cheating and embarrassing (but hey, it is far easier to pull off). By the way, anyone can copy a code library or algorithm. I am always interested in the ways different people go about solving problems like this. The way I attack a problem is by collecting salient data. What can I know about these user created polygons (number of points (or line segments), vertice angles between segments, relative segment lengths, relative distance of each vertices from the object's center of area, open or closed, etc.)? Once this data is collected and stored for all user polygons, it can be compared with the same data collected from platonic shapes. How would you go about solving this problem? On Aug 17, 2010, at 1:38 AM, David Bovill wrote: Thanks Mark - great paper! There does not seem to be a lot of code around - nearest I can find is herehttp://www.codeproject.com/KB/GDI-plus/blobby.aspx. I'd have thought it was something built into the touch screen OS's as it is kind of essential for vector graphic drawing on touch screens? On 17 August 2010 04:58, AcidJazz mpe...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a link to a technical article that discusses the fuzzy logic involved in pattern recognition of shapes. It doesn't provide the exact algorithm, but should get you a little further down the road in your search. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
Given that computers are as dumb as a post and don't know anything about geometry to start with, I don't think the first example is so embarrassing after all. You have to tell the computer what each shape is before it gets smart enough to recognize it. The real difference lies in the purpose you are making the function for. If you are trying to give the user a way to hand draw standard shapes and then perfect them for him, the first method seems ideal. But if you are making a way for the user to draw complex objects with mixed curves and straight sides and what not, then the second method seems like the only way to go. Maybe the recognition method is not granular enough. Maybe you should be thinking more like Illustrator does, with lines, curves and connection points. A subtle curve may be a shaky hand or exactly what the user wanted to draw. The difference between a perfect circle and a subtle oval would be indiscernible to a computer. How does the computer know the difference? You would have to give the user a way to choose. Just my 2¢ Bob On Aug 17, 2010, at 11:30 AM, Randall Reetz wrote: I am working on two such filters. The first is a brute force recognizer looking for matches to standard shapes (point, line, angle, triangle, rectangle, polygon, oval, conic and cylindric sections) and how closely a user drawing matches platonic forms of these (exp. right and equilateral triangles, square, right rectangle, golden rectangle, parallelogram, circle) at any rotation. The second filter is one I have been working on for 15 years and is a universal pattern engine which does the same as above but without a set of arbitrarily pre-defined target shapes. From the self-evolving AI perspective from which I work, I consider the first filter set cheating and embarrassing (but hey, it is far easier to pull off). By the way, anyone can copy a code library or algorithm. I am always interested in the ways different people go about solving problems like this. The way I attack a problem is by collecting salient data. What can I know about these user created polygons (number of points (or line segments), vertice angles between segments, relative segment lengths, relative distance of each vertices from the object's center of area, open or closed, etc.)? Once this data is collected and stored for all user polygons, it can be compared with the same data collected from platonic shapes. How would you go about solving this problem? On Aug 17, 2010, at 1:38 AM, David Bovill wrote: Thanks Mark - great paper! There does not seem to be a lot of code around - nearest I can find is herehttp://www.codeproject.com/KB/GDI-plus/blobby.aspx. I'd have thought it was something built into the touch screen OS's as it is kind of essential for vector graphic drawing on touch screens? On 17 August 2010 04:58, AcidJazz mpe...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a link to a technical article that discusses the fuzzy logic involved in pattern recognition of shapes. It doesn't provide the exact algorithm, but should get you a little further down the road in your search. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
Yes, my code always presents a ghost shape (what the code thinks the user is after) sub-imposed below the user's sketch. A key stroke tells the code if the user has chosen the suggested shape. And, of course it is also reasonable to present platonic geometric shapes that have been roughed up a bit to look hand drawn (they hold their target platonic shape in custom property... screen rendering is skin-specific). -Original Message- From: Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:44 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev Given that computers are as dumb as a post and don't know anything about geometry to start with, I don't think the first example is so embarrassing after all. You have to tell the computer what each shape is before it gets smart enough to recognize it. The real difference lies in the purpose you are making the function for. If you are trying to give the user a way to hand draw standard shapes and then perfect them for him, the first method seems ideal. But if you are making a way for the user to draw complex objects with mixed curves and straight sides and what not, then the second method seems like the only way to go. Maybe the recognition method is not granular enough. Maybe you should be thinking more like Illustrator does, with lines, curves and connection points. A subtle curve may be a shaky hand or exactly what the user wanted to draw. The difference between a perfect circle and a subtle oval would be indiscernible to a computer. How does the computer know the difference? You would have to give the user a way to choose. Just my 2¢ Bob On Aug 17, 2010, at 11:30 AM, Randall Reetz wrote: I am working on two such filters. The first is a brute force recognizer looking for matches to standard shapes (point, line, angle, triangle, rectangle, polygon, oval, conic and cylindric sections) and how closely a user drawing matches platonic forms of these (exp. right and equilateral triangles, square, right rectangle, golden rectangle, parallelogram, circle) at any rotation. The second filter is one I have been working on for 15 years and is a universal pattern engine which does the same as above but without a set of arbitrarily pre-defined target shapes. From the self-evolving AI perspective from which I work, I consider the first filter set cheating and embarrassing (but hey, it is far easier to pull off). By the way, anyone can copy a code library or algorithm. I am always interested in the ways different people go about solving problems like this. The way I attack a problem is by collecting salient data. What can I know about these user created polygons (number of points (or line segments), vertice angles between segments, relative segment lengths, relative distance of each vertices from the object's center of area, open or closed, etc.)? Once this data is collected and stored for all user polygons, it can be compared with the same data collected from platonic shapes. How would you go about solving this problem? On Aug 17, 2010, at 1:38 AM, David Bovill wrote: Thanks Mark - great paper! There does not seem to be a lot of code around - nearest I can find is herehttp://www.codeproject.com/KB/GDI-plus/blobby.aspx. I'd have thought it was something built into the touch screen OS's as it is kind of essential for vector graphic drawing on touch screens? On 17 August 2010 04:58, AcidJazz mpe...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a link to a technical article that discusses the fuzzy logic involved in pattern recognition of shapes. It doesn't provide the exact algorithm, but should get you a little further down the road in your search. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
On 17 August 2010 19:30, Randall Reetz rlre...@gmail.com wrote: I am working on two such filters. The first is a brute force recognizer looking for matches to standard shapes (point, line, angle, triangle, rectangle, polygon, oval, conic and cylindric sections) and how closely a user drawing matches platonic forms of these (exp. right and equilateral triangles, square, right rectangle, golden rectangle, parallelogram, circle) at any rotation. The second filter is one I have been working on for 15 years and is a universal pattern engine which does the same as above but without a set of arbitrarily pre-defined target shapes. From the self-evolving AI perspective from which I work, I consider the first filter set cheating and embarrassing (but hey, it is far easier to pull off). By the way, anyone can copy a code library or algorithm. I am always interested in the ways different people go about solving problems like this. The way I attack a problem is by collecting salient data. What can I know about these user created polygons (number of points (or line segments), vertice angles between segments, relative segment lengths, relative distance of each vertices from the object's center of area, open or closed, etc.)? Once this data is collected and stored for all user polygons, it can be compared with the same data collected from platonic shapes. How would you go about solving this problem? I'd Google for a library :) But that's because it is not the problem I'm interested in, but a tool that would improve the user experience. It's also because I'm pretty sure it's a problem that soon will be addressed by the gesture recognition stuff in the OS, and developing my own hack would well just be another hack. If I were to do it now, my guess would be to avoid logical solutions based on knowledge of geometry, and to take one of the C++ based genetic algorithm libraries out there and train it on a set of user data. I did play with both neural networks and GA's in MetaCard, and used some of that work in music composition. Certainly very interesting areas - but right now I just want the user to be able to draw polygons with their finger :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
Thanks Mark - great paper! There does not seem to be a lot of code around - nearest I can find is herehttp://www.codeproject.com/KB/GDI-plus/blobby.aspx. I'd have thought it was something built into the touch screen OS's as it is kind of essential for vector graphic drawing on touch screens? On 17 August 2010 04:58, AcidJazz mpe...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a link to a technical article that discusses the fuzzy logic involved in pattern recognition of shapes. It doesn't provide the exact algorithm, but should get you a little further down the road in your search. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
Here's a link to a technical article that discusses the fuzzy logic involved in pattern recognition of shapes. It doesn't provide the exact algorithm, but should get you a little further down the road in your search. Cheers, Mark http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.37.5875rep=rep1type=pdf -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Pattern-recognition-of-basic-shapes-in-Rev-tp2325992p2327748.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
I'd like to emulate the behavior of some software which allows you to draw rough shapes by hand and recognises whether you want to draw a circle, triangle, rectangle etc. The tools would allow you to use the freehand pen polygon tool to sketch and then replace the sketch with an appropriately placed polygon or button. The missing algorithm is one which will take an arbitrary set of poygon points and return the recognised shape and vertices / dimensions. Any ideas where to start? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Pattern recognition of basic shapes in Rev
Yes, the missing algorithm. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
