Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
Sorry to bring this up but I think it needs discussing. I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? - Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Real-Basic-Web-edition-No-Plugin-Required-tp2540495p2540495.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On 15 September 2010 14:08, AndyP smudge.a...@googlemail.com wrote: I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? Yes - I'd have to agree with you. Luckily we can get the same experience by working with Revolution and Rodeo http://rodeoapps.com/. RunRev should never have put development effort into a plugin, it was always more sensible to develop integrated revServer / JavaScript solutions, but this is not a solution that RunRev with it's focus on the engine fully appreciated - I've never felt they got the web. Of course some people love the plugin, it makes me smile too, and only the future will truly tell - in 2 years time will we be looking at a rich range of web apps using JavaScript, HTML / HTML5 as their front ends or will lots of us be using a web plugin? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
David Bovill wrote: On 15 September 2010 14:08, AndyP smudge.andy at googlemail.com wrote: I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? Yes - I'd have to agree with you. Luckily we can get the same experience by working with Revolution and Rodeo http://rodeoapps.com/. RunRev should never have put development effort into a plugin, it was always more sensible to develop integrated revServer / JavaScript solutions, but this is not a solution that RunRev with it's focus on the engine fully appreciated - I've never felt they got the web. Of course some people love the plugin, it makes me smile too, and only the future will truly tell - in 2 years time will we be looking at a rich range of web apps using JavaScript, HTML / HTML5 as their front ends or will lots of us be using a web plugin? Jun 27, 2006: So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
Folks, This is beautiful but deploying FastCGI is not that trivial. Recovery must play a big part on the backend since the FastCGI stays resident (it should) in memory. This could be replicated in Rev, pure RevTalk right now. It would not be 100% safe since we have a blocking engine but we could always use a monitor process to detect lock up and kill it. I think it was 2006 or something, that I was talking with Mark Wieder about how one should go to implement that exact solution. It can be done, heck, I am not the best programmer out there and I've implemented FastCGI on Revolution 2.x and it actually worked. Now, you guys got me hooked, I will write a big followup now not to hijack this thread. Andre On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, David Bovill da...@vaudevillecourt.tvwrote: On 15 September 2010 14:08, AndyP smudge.a...@googlemail.com wrote: I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? Yes - I'd have to agree with you. Luckily we can get the same experience by working with Revolution and Rodeo http://rodeoapps.com/. RunRev should never have put development effort into a plugin, it was always more sensible to develop integrated revServer / JavaScript solutions, but this is not a solution that RunRev with it's focus on the engine fully appreciated - I've never felt they got the web. Of course some people love the plugin, it makes me smile too, and only the future will truly tell - in 2 years time will we be looking at a rich range of web apps using JavaScript, HTML / HTML5 as their front ends or will lots of us be using a web plugin? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On 15 September 2010 14:52, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Jun 27, 2006: So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html Exactly, which is part of what would make a good open source / open content strategy for RunRev. But they get community development strategy even less than they get the web :( ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On 15 September 2010 14:53, Andre Garzia an...@andregarzia.com wrote:, This is beautiful but deploying FastCGI is not that trivial. Recovery must play a big part on the backend since the FastCGI stays resident (it should) in memory. This could be replicated in Rev, pure RevTalk right now. It would not be 100% safe since we have a blocking engine but we could always use a monitor process to detect lock up and kill it. I think it was 2006 or something, that I was talking with Mark Wieder about how one should go to implement that exact solution. It can be done, heck, I am not the best programmer out there and I've implemented FastCGI on Revolution 2.x and it actually worked. Now, you guys got me hooked, I will write a big followup now not to hijack this thread. RevServer is plenty to build on, the missing work is the job of polishing off this infrastructure with integrating the rev IDE and the main JavaScript libraries - the sensible way of doing this at low cost, is as Richard outlined to use community development strategies to support open script library / widget development. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On 09/15/2010 04:45 PM, David Bovill wrote: On 15 September 2010 14:08, AndyPsmudge.a...@googlemail.com wrote: I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? Yes - I'd have to agree with you. Luckily we can get the same experience by working with Revolution and Rodeohttp://rodeoapps.com/. RunRev should never 'never' is a rather strong word. It is entirely possible that the brainy computery types feel that way, but we workers down on the floor underneath the leaf-mould really do think the plugin is a good thing as it is relatively easy to move directly from a stack to something that is web-browser-deliverable with a minimum of pain. have put development effort into a plugin, it was always more sensible to develop integrated revServer / JavaScript solutions, but this is not a solution that RunRev with it's focus on the engine fully appreciated - I've never felt they got the web. Of course some people love the plugin, it makes me smile too, What? condescendingly . . . or lovingly: I hope it is the latter . . . :) and only the future will truly tell Yes, indeed it will; both Thee and Me will be outdated, outmoded and out-manouevred before we even realise what has happened to us; that is why I feel pretty uncomfortable about using words such as 'never'. - in 2 years time will we be looking at a rich range of web apps using JavaScript, HTML / HTML5 as their front ends or will lots of us be using a web plugin? ___ Maybe none of these things, but something quite unpredictable. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On 09/15/2010 04:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: David Bovill wrote: On 15 September 2010 14:08, AndyP smudge.andy at googlemail.com wrote: I've noticed that Real Basic are about to launch a web edition. Went to their site expecting a web plugin requirement and found this: 'REAL Studio Web Edition apps run as a FastCGI on Apache.' ! http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ No plugin so works on most default Apache set ups. As it's a cgi it will work on Ipad, Iphone and most browsers. Now I'm not a Real Basic fan but have to say that having the web version to output FastCGI is pretty neat. Surely this is a better way for RunRev to go for the web and avoid plugins altogether. Wouldn't this open up the uses and market for RunRev? Yes - I'd have to agree with you. Luckily we can get the same experience by working with Revolution and Rodeo http://rodeoapps.com/. RunRev should never have put development effort into a plugin, it was always more sensible to develop integrated revServer / JavaScript solutions, but this is not a solution that RunRev with it's focus on the engine fully appreciated - I've never felt they got the web. Of course some people love the plugin, it makes me smile too, and only the future will truly tell - in 2 years time will we be looking at a rich range of web apps using JavaScript, HTML / HTML5 as their front ends or will lots of us be using a web plugin? Jun 27, 2006: So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html Oh, Gosh, its that time of the year again; when we dig out our old hobby-horses and reiterate them again, again, again . . . anybody remember my Agent-led interface prototype for developing RunRev stacks by teachers? If 10% of the ideas that have been batted around on this Use-List over the last 10 years had actually got further than somebody's PC we WOULD be living in a different world to what we do. Sadly, there is the bread and curd problem (remember; no s*x, r*l*g**n, m*n*y or ch**s*), and we all have to fill our bellies. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
David Bovill wrote: On 15 September 2010 14:52, Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.comwrote: Jun 27, 2006: So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html Exactly, which is part of what would make a good open source / open content strategy for RunRev. But they get community development strategy even less than they get the web :( There is nothing inherent in that proposal which requires waiting for anyone else to do anything. Anyone who sees value in such an open source project can begin it at any time. The engine is here, the web is here. All that needs to happen now is for someone who wants this to roll up their sleeves and code it. Like Richmond said, If 10% of the ideas that have been batted around on this Use-List over the last 10 years had actually got further than somebody's PC we WOULD be living in a different world to what we do. I'll kick-start it: if someone will take the lead on this, I'll donate the code to translate native Rev controls on a card to HTML representations. I have chunks of it written for various projects now, so tidying those up and generalizing them will be a reasonably accomplishable task. Who wants this enough to take the lead on the JavaScript library? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: I'll kick-start it: if someone will take the lead on this, I'll donate the code to translate native Rev controls on a card to HTML representations. I have chunks of it written for various projects now, so tidying those up and generalizing them will be a reasonably accomplishable task. Who wants this enough to take the lead on the JavaScript library? Richard, See my other thread, I think I am starting this... :D -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
I think I should add that I have deployed a plugin based utility for in-house production tracking and the experience was great. Job status is accessed via the exe version at work stations and the web based plugin version out of office...One code write, two usable platformsFantastic! However.. my main role (in my paid job) is that of a web developer and the general feedback from clients (we have a couple of hundred) is that they would not be happy to augment the systems on their sites via the use of a plugin. They want their clients to not notice the move from static site pages to more data driven or dynamic areas. So a solution that can be deployed an a standard server setup without having to install extra and costly server addons from my point of view would be a great step forward and would allo me to use my favorite dev tool Runrev much more rather than PHP/MySql/Javascript which are my primary web dev tools. - Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Real-Basic-Web-edition-No-Plugin-Required-tp2540495p2540692.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Real Basic Web edition - No Plugin Required!
Andre- Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 6:53:22 AM, you wrote: This could be replicated in Rev, pure RevTalk right now. It would not be 100% safe since we have a blocking engine but we could always use a monitor process to detect lock up and kill it. I think it was 2006 or something, that I was talking with Mark Wieder about how one should go to implement that exact solution. ...and I remember writing up a long report on this at the time. I'd have to dig it up again, but I seem to remember that single-threading was the issue that would kill using revServer this way. You either have a single thread per user application, blocking, and no variable persistence (no fastCGI) or you have shared persistent variables and a single engine instance with multiple users in the same memory space (fastCGI). -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
