RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Wolfram, and VRML export (do you listen Arjo ?) Wolfram I think the VRML export of RS is quite OK. I did not see many exporters. I've only got Cinema4D as another option. I compared both VRML exporters and both do have shortcomings. But in the end I prefer RS. Mainly because of the support for instances and some primitives. To clean up (minimize code) I use VrmlPad. I got some scripts in VrmlPad to automate that process. I don't know if any other RS user is ever working with VRML. But if so I could write my workflow on the Wiki. Arjo.
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Arjo, I use RS-Obj export --Viewpoint, well working, too. Anf from the plugin-palette the IGES-Plugin, can't live without it now. Long time ago I've checked LW-VRML, funny results :-) Matthias I think the VRML export of RS is quite OK. I did not see many exporters. I've only got Cinema4D as another option. I compared both VRML exporters and both do have shortcomings. But in the end I prefer RS. Mainly because of the support for instances and some primitives. To clean up (minimize code) I use VrmlPad. I got some scripts in VrmlPad to automate that process. I don't know if any other RS user is ever working with VRML. But if so I could write my workflow on the Wiki. Arjo.
RE: Is there a 'Show Raytrace+PostFX' feature?
Hi Stefan, No you're right you didn't miss anything as far as I can see. Sorry couldn't help you out. Arjo. But when you add post render..(change something that only affects the PostFX render phase) As soon as you start to render the PostFX,RS now Loads the Raytraced Backup.. IN the view! (The old Comlete Render... Raytrace+OldPostFX is gone and only the Old Raytrace is shown) I just want to have the Complete Raytrace+PostFX image to show in the View and that the new PostFX render should Render over THAT image, so I can see how the new change of any of the properties of the PostFX..(like GI_brightness_control, GI_blur.. and so on..) All above is regarding to your advice.. about setting the 'Use canvas as ray trace backdrop' Tell me if I missed something very obvious.. but I dont think so.. Take CareBest RegardsStefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. I tried a glow posteffect. And that remained in visible in the window until next render. That's not wht you mean? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Beg-innerSent: woensdag 3 mei 2006 23:50To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.comSubject: Re: Is there a 'Show Raytrace+PostFX' feature? Hi Arjo.. Thx for your reply and your suggestion.. works nicely.. Would be nice with something similar for the complete render... Raytrace+PostFX (maybe that is in there somewhere. ) Take CareBest RegardsStefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. Hi Stefan, Beside the "Automatic redraw off", also check the "update from canvas" option.you can find itin the same section in the view properties. Arjo. Hi all.. Is there a similar function as the 'Show Backup' feature, that also shows it all, the Raytrace+PostFx ? So if lost in the 'View' Window, you dont have to do a 'Render PostFX' ! One thing that somewhat helps out, is the 'Automatic Redrawing Off' option in the 'View Properties' Windows 'Draw' Tab
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
In my op RS has a good anim-toolset. If (--bu) I've finished all my tutorials you'll maybe see the great features and give it a go, and then you've so much possibilities It's possible now in RS to bring in MoCap data with Carlos RealMoca Plugin, the pointwise binding to skeletons is working very well, you can then point-animate or morph or displace-map the character for facial anim. You can learn the characters to react on animations, objects, materials, lights. In most cases this should be enough. (If (again) Carlo and Alessandro will finish their plugins, RS is on top ;-) The main difference to blender is in my op the user-group. They have more tester. As you've seen the last days on the list the eyes thread, there are many ways to animate objects, but how many people have ever really tried out all the anim features? If we have every day an what's the best way to aniamte this or that question, all of us (the RS-Team, too) can learn to use the full feature set of RS. Before Tim Borgmanns Miscroscopic-series, there was the QT: Is RS renderer as good as other renders? Hmmm, don't now. Is RS-anim toolset good enough for my poor anims? Yes. http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=149 http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=148 http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=124 http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=78 http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=150 The problem on my side is not RS anim toolset, it's that I've not enough time. Matthias - Original Message - From: Aidan O Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:47 PM Subject: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Guys, I have been keeping an eye on the following: http://orange.blender.org/ This is a full 3D Movie called Elephant Dreams made completely in BLENDER. It is now complete [ 7 months or so ] and has been shown in Theatres already. It is now available under the Creative Commons license as a Double DVD including all the Models and Scenes for anyone to remake the movie differently. SO - to make such a movie - Has Blender now out stripped Realsoft for Animation and Character Animation? As can be seen the film has a number of complete animated Characters. Could such a project be done with RS right now? OR does the Character Animation toolset need a serious over haul [ I think yes ] The development diary of Orange is in 3D World magazine every month - very good read, Cheers Aidan
viewpoint
Hi Matthias, Didn't know viewpoint, looks quite interesting. You've any examples you made with it? What about filesize? Can you strip any dead weight? For example: RS output of some typical file 16.1 Kb stripped with VrmlPad: 2.28 Kb saved as gz compressed: 0.63 Kb Arjo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthias Kappenberg Sent: vrijdag 5 mei 2006 9:13 To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Arjo, I use RS-Obj export --Viewpoint, well working, too. Anf from the plugin-palette the IGES-Plugin, can't live without it now. Long time ago I've checked LW-VRML, funny results :-) Matthias I think the VRML export of RS is quite OK. I did not see many exporters. I've only got Cinema4D as another option. I compared both VRML exporters and both do have shortcomings. But in the end I prefer RS. Mainly because of the support for instances and some primitives. To clean up (minimize code) I use VrmlPad. I got some scripts in VrmlPad to automate that process. I don't know if any other RS user is ever working with VRML. But if so I could write my workflow on the Wiki. Arjo.
Re: Is there a 'Show Raytrace+PostFX' feature?
Hi Arjo.. Ok.. I thought so.. Thanks anyway for trying to help out..! that is worth alot just that, and very much appreciated ! I am now using a 2 windows side by side setup..with Raytrace+oldPostFX and the other Raytrace NewPostFX... And next render.. I render the postfx in the First win again.. and so on..=).. I might fix me aspecial quadview setup, directly into my Startup prj for just postfx test. (GI, and so on.) Take CareBest RegardsStefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. Hi Stefan, No you're right you didn't miss anything as far as I can see. Sorry couldn't help you out. Arjo. But when you add post render..(change something that only affects the PostFX render phase) As soon as you start to render the PostFX,RS now Loads the Raytraced Backup.. IN the view! (The old Comlete Render... Raytrace+OldPostFX is gone and only the Old Raytrace is shown) I just want to have the Complete Raytrace+PostFX image to show in the View and that the new PostFX render should Render over THAT image, so I can see how the new change of any of the properties of the PostFX..(like GI_brightness_control, GI_blur.. and so on..) All above is regarding to your advice.. about setting the 'Use canvas as ray trace backdrop' Tell me if I missed something very obvious.. but I dont think so.. Take CareBest RegardsStefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. I tried a glow posteffect. And that remained in visible in the window until next render. That's not wht you mean? Hi Arjo.. Thx for your reply and your suggestion.. works nicely.. Would be nice with something similar for the complete render... Raytrace+PostFX (maybe that is in there somewhere. ) Take CareBest RegardsStefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. Hi Stefan, Beside the "Automatic redraw off", also check the "update from canvas" option.you can find itin the same section in the view properties. Arjo. Hi all.. Is there a similar function as the 'Show Backup' feature, that also shows it all, the Raytrace+PostFx ? So if lost in the 'View' Window, you dont have to do a 'Render PostFX' ! One thing that somewhat helps out, is the 'Automatic Redrawing Off' option in the 'View Properties' Windows 'Draw' Tab
Re: viewpoint
Hi Arjo, visit the VMP home at: www.viewpoint.com you need the VMP-Plugin!!! http://www.viewpoint.com/pub/products/vmp.html if it does not install automatically My work: http://www.the-dimension.com/hangar05_aktuell/hangar05.html check Hyperview button ;-) Total filesize ~40kb very basic: http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=127 check Hyperview button ;-) Language for scenefile description is xml. Matthias - Original Message - From: Arjo Rozendaal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: viewpoint Hi Matthias, Didn't know viewpoint, looks quite interesting. You've any examples you made with it? What about filesize? Can you strip any dead weight? For example: RS output of some typical file 16.1 Kb stripped with VrmlPad: 2.28 Kb saved as gz compressed: 0.63 Kb Arjo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthias Kappenberg Sent: vrijdag 5 mei 2006 9:13 To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Arjo, I use RS-Obj export --Viewpoint, well working, too. Anf from the plugin-palette the IGES-Plugin, can't live without it now. Long time ago I've checked LW-VRML, funny results :-) Matthias I think the VRML export of RS is quite OK. I did not see many exporters. I've only got Cinema4D as another option. I compared both VRML exporters and both do have shortcomings. But in the end I prefer RS. Mainly because of the support for instances and some primitives. To clean up (minimize code) I use VrmlPad. I got some scripts in VrmlPad to automate that process. I don't know if any other RS user is ever working with VRML. But if so I could write my workflow on the Wiki. Arjo.
RE: Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Blender also has a radiosity solver ! Are there many on this list who are in favour of radiosity in Realsoft ? I have seen on another user forum there were quite a few who are keen to see this upgrade. Regards Jason - Original Message - From: Aidan O Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Guys, I have been keeping an eye on the following: http://orange.blender.org/ This is a full 3D Movie called Elephant Dreams made completely in BLENDER. It is now complete [ 7 months or so ] and has been shown in Theatres already. It is now available under the Creative Commons license as a Double DVD including all the Models and Scenes for anyone to remake the movie differently. SO - to make such a movie - Has Blender now out stripped Realsoft for Animation and Character Animation? As can be seen the film has a number of complete animated Characters. Could such a project be done with RS right now? OR does the Character Animation toolset need a serious over haul [ I think yes ] The development diary of Orange is in 3D World magazine every month - very good read, Cheers Aidan
Re: Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Radiosity would be very hard to implement in RS, as it requirestesselation. A proper QMC/Photon GI system would be nice though. On 05/05/06, Jason Saunders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Blender also has a radiosity solver ! Are there many on this list who are in favour of radiosity in Realsoft ? I have seen on another user forum there were quite a few who are keen to see this upgrade. Regards Jason - Original Message - From: Aidan O Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Guys, I have been keeping an eye on the following: http://orange.blender.org/ This is a full 3D Movie called Elephant Dreams made completely in BLENDER. It is now complete [ 7 months or so ] and has been shown in Theatres already. It is now available under the Creative Commons license as a Double DVD including all the Models and Scenes for anyone to remake the movie differently. SO - to make such a movie - Has Blender now out stripped Realsoft for Animation and Character Animation? As can be seen the film has a number of complete animated Characters. Could such a project be done with RS right now? OR does the Character Animation toolset need a serious over haul [ I think yes ] The development diary of Orange is in 3D World magazine every month - very good read, Cheers Aidan
RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Can it be made with RS... of course yes. Final Fantasy The movie could have been made with povray (text editor) alone. It'not about the sofware, It's never been. It's about the guy behind the computer (or the software). If the animation system is not good enough, do it frame by frame. You can model anything with a point by point technique. Basic morph and Basic bones (or not) can give a great result. The feature of a software should never be a problem. Animate clothing by hand if you need to, do particles by hand, do physic by hand. I think that 3D CG has made us LAZY. Compare to what classic animation studio could do with only pen/paper and a camera. Compare to what has been done with stop motion. I think Realsoft is packed with so much features That the user reflex is always to think if there is an button that will do it automaticly. In my experience, the time it takes to find out how a feature works, it is the time it takes to do it manually. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Wolfram Schwenzer Envoyé : Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:16 PM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Aidan O Driscoll wrote: Hi Guys, I have been keeping an eye on the following: http://orange.blender.org/ This is a full 3D Movie called Elephant Dreams made completely in BLENDER. It is now complete [ 7 months or so ] and has been shown in Theatres already. It is now available under the Creative Commons license as a Double DVD including all the Models and Scenes for anyone to remake the movie differently. SO - to make such a movie - Has Blender now out stripped Realsoft for Animation and Character Animation? As can be seen the film has a number of complete animated Characters. Yeah, but not only in the character anim area but also in the game business: there's a toolkit some (very basic) examples on a CD delivered with a book showing some tricks of the trade. Members of this mailing list who complained 'bout missing support of these features in Realsoft should have a look at the blender internet pages. Blender also features Python scripting (which IMHO is superior to the Javascript support of Realsoft) and VRML export (do you listen Arjo ?) though only for Version 1.0. (but you don't have to pay for that ;-) ) Wolfram
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Jason and lads, Yes Jason - I concur with all you have said. It would indeed be lovely to have infinite hours to sit down and more or less stop motion a character anim in RS, but that is a luxury not too many of us have. The foot slippage and the constructor objects [ drag etc ] are a big problem - not working properly. A characters reaction to the environment. Knees bend NO the feet should not go through the floor. Yes, you could key frame this problem OUT, but time is the issue once more and frustration. I still say that alot of this Char Anim stuff could be resolved in the short term by having better Import/Export to/from other apps. For example out and back from Motionbuilder via FBX OR the same with Project MESSIAH. The latter would be better now as it is at a good price point $299. Since Autodesk took over Alias - MB Standard is gone and MB Pro is now £2000 or so. BUT - I am told that RS wants to be an all in one - one stop shop type app with no dependence on outside 3rd party apps. Interesting philosophy and much praise for same. But a philosophy that could have people waiting for features for a long time. Good import / export would help big time AND also attract more users as they come to RS from those other niche apps like Messiah and Zbrush and . An RS / Messiah bundle - Messiah as a plugin - at a good price point. Why not? Another point discussed at the IRC relevant to this topic is RS'es I/O for gaming/modding or lack of - indeed a topic close to some peoples hearts I would say. Look at Caligari - they went and created a Game Version of there Truespace app and called it Gamespace. Good Marketing? Also Softimage have a free version of XSI for gamers to use for modding. I have no doubt that as RS moves on all these things will be featured AND RS will be a top one stop app, but for the moment is their any harm in having it talk a bit better to the outside world by way of improved import / export? Anyways, Keep this topic going, Interesting Cheers Aidan At 15:08 05/05/2006, you wrote: 3d has not made us lazy, because you are comparing a production workflow to stop frame animation without considering evolution. You cannot compare the two as they are completely different approaches with completely different results. Yes you are right in that if time was infinite, we could indeed create most things with R3d, however the world is moving on and when there are other 3D apps making, for example, animating characters more easily, we will of course levitate to those apps. If you are a hobbyist, then this is of less concern more a frustration, but if you have to make a living and your client wants it yesterday you are going to need a more productive workflow if there is one available. For example try and make a convincing walk cycle with realsoft. You can do it two ways. key frame posing or morphing hierarchal skeleton targets. While a basic cycle can be achieved relatively quickly, it will not be good enough without further tweaking to time the foot to floor motions correctly. Currently with either system, too many in-between key frames have to be created to prevent slippage and floor penetration. Even using the constructor objects does not work correctly. Ok now make your human skeleton do a somersault..try it and you will see what I mean... its hard and frustrating, simple as that. Stop frame animation has its simple limitations which are expected from the outset, but 3D has had many developments that give us tools to create and animate in intuitive methods. There is a feeling amongst many that the Realsoft tools need an update to keep in line with what the rest of the industry is doing. Hopefully v6 will address a lot of these issues, but until we get a list of the new tools, we will just have to wait. Regards Jason Jean-Seastien Perron wrote : Can it be made with RS... of course yes. Final Fantasy The movie could have been made with povray (text editor) alone. It'not about the sofware, It's never been. It's about the guy behind the computer (or the software). If the animation system is not good enough, do it frame by frame. You can model anything with a point by point technique. Basic morph and Basic bones (or not) can give a great result. The feature of a software should never be a problem. Animate clothing by hand if you need to, do particles by hand, do physic by hand. I think that 3D CG has made us LAZY. Compare to what classic animation studio could do with only pen/paper and a camera. Compare to what has been done with stop motion. I think Realsoft is packed with so much features That the user reflex is always to think if there is an button that will do it automaticly. In my experience, the time it takes to find out how a feature works, it is the time it takes to do it manually. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De
RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Jean-Sebastien, Final note : If there was unlimited time I would use only Realsoft because everything is there. And I have to admit that the render quality is the best. Realsoft is the only software with that much potential right of the box. Yip - again - thoroughly agree. A Question - seeming you use MESSIAH - Would it be a good partner app with Realsoft, particularly to take care of the Character Animation? Once you have all your Models done with RS and Shade etc, is Messiah the app you use to composite the lot and final render? From RS to Messiah is it OBJ? How much would it help if you had a full import / export tie in with Realsoft from / to Messiah - mesh, bones, the lot? Cheers Aidan At 17:14 05/05/2006, you wrote: I should not have said that, because I have never used RS Profesionaly. In fact since I bought it 2 years ago. I never really used it. Only for SDS modeling. In my opinion it's not the feature the problem, it's the fact that everytime you want to do something with it, you nedd to read 20 pages of the manual and you have to do many test before it actually work. And most of the functions already there are not working properly : Bones and IK, Views are hard to configure, Loading and saving a scene is difficult, Displacement mapping is too slow, UV mapping is really difficult etc. I found trought the years that all 3D app really sucks. There is no exception. So this is my current workflow : -Model SDS with Realsoft www.realsoft.com -Model everything else with Shade8 www.e-frontier.com -Do the UV mapping with UVMapperPro http://www.uvmapper.com/ -Use Gimp for the texture -Vue4 and VistaPro for landscapes and trees -Everything is rendered and animated with ProjectMessiahWorkstation www.projectmessiah.com What a waist of time and money, but it pays (even with all this messy conversion It is faster like that). I can't use Realsoft for photorealistic project because there is no one click everything is perfect (fast and beatiful) GI solution within Realsoft. As for character animation Realsoft IK is really weird, It dosen't react as supposed to. And when you try to animate a character with RS : every time you move a bone you risk destroying your object, pose and animation. To make Realsoft a viable complete sofware it is simple : -Make the current feature work. (make the basic function work) -Stop making too many useless WOW features. -Improve the UI and workflow -And finally implement a easy to use and fast GI solution (MontéCarlo with blur for example) -Easy to use material editor (node or else) -And my final wish : a user interface that is like any other application - ready to use from the start. Time is money. Final note : If there was unlimited time I would use only Realsoft because everything is there. And I have to admit that the render quality is the best. Realsoft is the only sofware with that much potential right of the box. Even If I don't fully use it (I never tried the version 5.5 yet (only 3 houres)) But I will buy the next version. Because I believe in Realsoft. Faith and I like to think that Realsoft has and is still pionnering 3DCG. So if you stay close to realsoft you stay close to the latest technology and new innovations. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Aidan O Driscoll Envoyé : Friday, May 05, 2006 10:52 AM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Jason and lads, Yes Jason - I concur with all you have said. It would indeed be lovely to have infinite hours to sit down and more or less stop motion a character anim in RS, but that is a luxury not too many of us have. The foot slippage and the constructor objects [ drag etc ] are a big problem - not working properly. A characters reaction to the environment. Knees bend NO the feet should not go through the floor. Yes, you could key frame this problem OUT, but time is the issue once more and frustration. I still say that alot of this Char Anim stuff could be resolved in the short term by having better Import/Export to/from other apps. For example out and back from Motionbuilder via FBX OR the same with Project MESSIAH. The latter would be better now as it is at a good price point $299. Since Autodesk took over Alias - MB Standard is gone and MB Pro is now £2000 or so. BUT - I am told that RS wants to be an all in one - one stop shop type app with no dependence on outside 3rd party apps. Interesting philosophy and much praise for same. But a philosophy that could have people waiting for features for a long time. Good import / export would help big time AND also attract more users as they come to RS from those other niche apps like Messiah and Zbrush and . An RS / Messiah bundle - Messiah as a plugin - at a good price point. Why not? Another point discussed at the IRC relevant to this topic is RS'es I/O for
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Aidan, yep *.obj format, but have in mind that you should have only 4point quads in your models (Messiahs nurbs only accept 3 or 4 point polys). Before exporting your models simply Divide Faces to Quads. Then animate it in Messiah, save the scene. Convert the motion in BVH via free app. Import the BVH data with Carlos plugin. Assign the motion data, and render with RS (if you like VSL and Realman ;-) Matthias A Question - seeming you use MESSIAH - Would it be a good partner app with Realsoft, particularly to take care of the Character Animation? Once you have all your Models done with RS and Shade etc, is Messiah the app you use to composite the lot and final render? From RS to Messiah is it OBJ? How much would it help if you had a full import / export tie in with Realsoft from / to Messiah - mesh, bones, the lot? Cheers Aidan
RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Aidan, I use messiah only because it is a hell of a photorealistic renderer. It's only one button to set the settings for the GI. The material is node base. I don't use it because it is the best animation sofware in the world (and trust me it really is), I use it because It is the fastest renderer I have ever seen (Faster than ElectricImageCameraRenderer witch is a reference). From realsoft the export to obj is enough for all you can need. You export the SDS without subdivision (lowpoly) and use the subdivision in messiah by pressing the [TAB]key. Once you are in Messiah I don't see any reason why you would go back to realsoft for animation or rendering. -Another very powerfull feature of messiah renderer is RenderGroup (which light affect which object). -Displacement is as fast as any regular bump mapping. -Physic, clothing, particles Ho it's only 299$ I did a rendering test with Shade8CalistoRenderer 120 minutes. The same scene in messiah 3minutes at max quality. And the result was better with messiah. Most of the GI rendering images done with realsoft that takes 30 minutes to render on my computer would take 2 minutes with messiah. As for animation take a look at this http://maks.free.fr/reel/ The thing is that messiah is a complete animation/rendering package but there is no modeling. Rendering time is the most important thing in animation. -You can do more rendering test -You can push more the complexity of the scene -And there is a difference between 60minutes rendering compared to 2minutes rendering per frame for a 1440 images (60 secondes of animation ) That mean 1440*60min = 60days compared to 1440*2min = 2days. So you save 58days easely by changing the renderer. I had to do this that's why I am on messiah right now. It took me about 1 houre to master the renderer, material system,basic aniation of messiah. The character rig in messiah are fully automated and intelligent (You don't have any wheight to set), and once the object is rigged It takes 5secondes to make a character walk realisticaly. You don't belieave it, try it. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Aidan O Driscoll Envoyé : Friday, May 05, 2006 1:54 PM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Jean-Sebastien, Final note : If there was unlimited time I would use only Realsoft because everything is there. And I have to admit that the render quality is the best. Realsoft is the only software with that much potential right of the box. Yip - again - thoroughly agree. A Question - seeming you use MESSIAH - Would it be a good partner app with Realsoft, particularly to take care of the Character Animation? Once you have all your Models done with RS and Shade etc, is Messiah the app you use to composite the lot and final render? From RS to Messiah is it OBJ? How much would it help if you had a full import / export tie in with Realsoft from / to Messiah - mesh, bones, the lot? Cheers Aidan At 17:14 05/05/2006, you wrote: I should not have said that, because I have never used RS Profesionaly. In fact since I bought it 2 years ago. I never really used it. Only for SDS modeling. In my opinion it's not the feature the problem, it's the fact that everytime you want to do something with it, you nedd to read 20 pages of the manual and you have to do many test before it actually work. And most of the functions already there are not working properly : Bones and IK, Views are hard to configure, Loading and saving a scene is difficult, Displacement mapping is too slow, UV mapping is really difficult etc. I found trought the years that all 3D app really sucks. There is no exception. So this is my current workflow : -Model SDS with Realsoft www.realsoft.com -Model everything else with Shade8 www.e-frontier.com -Do the UV mapping with UVMapperPro http://www.uvmapper.com/ -Use Gimp for the texture -Vue4 and VistaPro for landscapes and trees -Everything is rendered and animated with ProjectMessiahWorkstation www.projectmessiah.com What a waist of time and money, but it pays (even with all this messy conversion It is faster like that). I can't use Realsoft for photorealistic project because there is no one click everything is perfect (fast and beatiful) GI solution within Realsoft. As for character animation Realsoft IK is really weird, It dosen't react as supposed to. And when you try to animate a character with RS : every time you move a bone you risk destroying your object, pose and animation. To make Realsoft a viable complete sofware it is simple : -Make the current feature work. (make the basic function work) -Stop making too many useless WOW features. -Improve the UI and workflow -And finally implement a easy to use and fast GI solution (MontéCarlo with blur for example) -Easy to use material editor (node or
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Hi Daniel, http://www.matthias-kappenberg.de/index.php?id=151 Tutorial how to select more than 1 keyframe ;-) Matthias And personally I'm never going to touch character animation with realsoft, as long as I cannot easily multiselect keyframes. Once you set a pose, there is no going back... (unless tedious single selections) I look at motionbuilder and drool. just my 2 cents. Daniel
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
More of the same ... personal opinion and less than 2 cents worth ... 1. I agree with all Jean-Sebastien's points below. For me this adds up to RS being a set of fundamental drawing tools. It is a complete set of tools for me since the I do not bother with its complex short-cuts. By coincidence then, the tools I use from RS are robust ones. 2. Concerning the argument that professional time constraints might mean that RS is not the preferred app ... I can not comment since I do not have to work to commercial deadlines. 3. Concerning the work-flow of shifting projects in and out of different apps that an artist likes for the special merits these apps have at certain points in the workflow I envy folk who have that depth of knowledge. Where I find all I need from the parts in RS that I like, these folk find all they need from the parts they like within the whole realm of 3D apps and plug-ins, etc. For me however, I no longer have the time to learn other apps to find out what parts might be useful. I do not even have time to find out what other parts of RS might be useful ... and this not-enough-time aspect has also been presented by others in this thread. I do not have the time since I am too busy drawing. 4. I do not have to check out 20 pages of the manual every time I want to try something since the number of tools that I use is not many. Also, the way I use some of these is often different to how they are presented in the manual. 5. The Blender project has been covered, blow by blow, in 3DWorld Magazine. There seems to me to be nothing from that that is beyond the reach of RS. 6. My part of building my new studio is now ended. Backed-up client work seems to be coming under control ... and so I will soon be at the point I was aiming for ... the chance to get on with drawing. The pencil I use happens to be RS. It's fun, it does everything I want and it does it well. Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: Jean-Seastien Perron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Can it be made with RS... of course yes. Final Fantasy The movie could have been made with povray (text editor) alone. It'not about the sofware, It's never been. It's about the guy behind the computer (or the software). If the animation system is not good enough, do it frame by frame. You can model anything with a point by point technique. Basic morph and Basic bones (or not) can give a great result. The feature of a software should never be a problem. Animate clothing by hand if you need to, do particles by hand, do physic by hand. I think that 3D CG has made us LAZY. Compare to what classic animation studio could do with only pen/paper and a camera. Compare to what has been done with stop motion. I think Realsoft is packed with so much features That the user reflex is always to think if there is an button that will do it automaticly. In my experience, the time it takes to find out how a feature works, it is the time it takes to do it manually. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Wolfram Schwenzer Envoyé : Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:16 PM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Aidan O Driscoll wrote: Hi Guys, I have been keeping an eye on the following: http://orange.blender.org/ This is a full 3D Movie called Elephant Dreams made completely in BLENDER. It is now complete [ 7 months or so ] and has been shown in Theatres already. It is now available under the Creative Commons license as a Double DVD including all the Models and Scenes for anyone to remake the movie differently. SO - to make such a movie - Has Blender now out stripped Realsoft for Animation and Character Animation? As can be seen the film has a number of complete animated Characters. Yeah, but not only in the character anim area but also in the game business: there's a toolkit some (very basic) examples on a CD delivered with a book showing some tricks of the trade. Members of this mailing list who complained 'bout missing support of these features in Realsoft should have a look at the blender internet pages. Blender also features Python scripting (which IMHO is superior to the Javascript support of Realsoft) and VRML export (do you listen Arjo ?) though only for Version 1.0. (but you don't have to pay for that ;-) ) Wolfram
Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
Uuuups, forgotten to say: Convert your RS Skeleton to SDS, this will give you objects in Messiah for redrawing the bones. Matthias - Original Message - From: Matthias Kappenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Hi Aidan, yep *.obj format, but have in mind that you should have only 4point quads in your models (Messiahs nurbs only accept 3 or 4 point polys). Before exporting your models simply Divide Faces to Quads. Then animate it in Messiah, save the scene. Convert the motion in BVH via free app. Import the BVH data with Carlos plugin. Assign the motion data, and render with RS (if you like VSL and Realman ;-) Matthias A Question - seeming you use MESSIAH - Would it be a good partner app with Realsoft, particularly to take care of the Character Animation? Once you have all your Models done with RS and Shade etc, is Messiah the app you use to composite the lot and final render? From RS to Messiah is it OBJ? How much would it help if you had a full import / export tie in with Realsoft from / to Messiah - mesh, bones, the lot? Cheers Aidan
RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER ..
One thing that is absent in every other packages : a wonderfull and open minded community like the realsoft community. I hate working with many 3D applications when it could be done in only one. Realsoft in his current state can be use for commercial project. And it can deliver in time (for that you need experience with it). A thing that I did not mention is the fact that projectmessiah renderer is an hybrid renderer. The result is a blurred image, no contrast. Realsoft is a pure Raytracer, the picture it can generate are beyond reach of other renderer. But crisp and vribrant color images doesn't belong to the crayzy photoreal trend in the industry. Photoreal is UGLY (low contrast, dead color, blurr, dusty, rusty). In the beginning of computer graphics, we were all amazed by the picture it could generate. I mean It could generate images of worlds never seen before. CG could be a form of art in itself (with pride for it's beauty). That is until a bunch of Hollywood junky decided that CG should be as ugly as reality. I feel that when a 3dCG image look computer generated it is like if it was a sin. People don't comment that cartoon look cartoon, that painting look like painting. So why this mental illness of always trying to compare 3D graphics with something else ex : camera (lens flair, blurr, etc) Is it a crime that realsoft generate better picture than reality. Because Realsoft generate imgages beyond reality. Realsoft is better than a reality. It's a door to a virgin world where you are god. So why trying to imitate reality with Realsoft. Take a regular camera and go take pictures instead. Take a camcorder and do a film. Of course the industry demand is for ugly photoreal images. SharkTales, Toystory, finalfantasy images are ugly, they try to look real in some ways (putty or real humans). Why stay there when the technology can bring you way ahead of that. I think that there should be a competition on that subject : Create an image more beautiful than reality with realsoft. Crazy section - Maybe I am afraid of freedom. That's why realsoft scares me, It is too powerfull for me. I am not used to not having limits, so I use many limited apps. I must go to sleep, before it gets worst. Next time someone tell me : It dosen't look real I will say : Yes because reality is not enough for me ---I do 3D computer graphic and I am proud of it. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Neil Cooke Envoyé : Friday, May 05, 2006 4:26 PM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : Re: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. More of the same ... personal opinion and less than 2 cents worth ... 1. I agree with all Jean-Sebastien's points below. For me this adds up to RS being a set of fundamental drawing tools. It is a complete set of tools for me since the I do not bother with its complex short-cuts. By coincidence then, the tools I use from RS are robust ones. 2. Concerning the argument that professional time constraints might mean that RS is not the preferred app ... I can not comment since I do not have to work to commercial deadlines. 3. Concerning the work-flow of shifting projects in and out of different apps that an artist likes for the special merits these apps have at certain points in the workflow I envy folk who have that depth of knowledge. Where I find all I need from the parts in RS that I like, these folk find all they need from the parts they like within the whole realm of 3D apps and plug-ins, etc. For me however, I no longer have the time to learn other apps to find out what parts might be useful. I do not even have time to find out what other parts of RS might be useful ... and this not-enough-time aspect has also been presented by others in this thread. I do not have the time since I am too busy drawing. 4. I do not have to check out 20 pages of the manual every time I want to try something since the number of tools that I use is not many. Also, the way I use some of these is often different to how they are presented in the manual. 5. The Blender project has been covered, blow by blow, in 3DWorld Magazine. There seems to me to be nothing from that that is beyond the reach of RS. 6. My part of building my new studio is now ended. Backed-up client work seems to be coming under control ... and so I will soon be at the point I was aiming for ... the chance to get on with drawing. The pencil I use happens to be RS. It's fun, it does everything I want and it does it well. Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: Jean-Seastien Perron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: RE: Realsoft Character Animation - Has RS been outstripped by BLENDER .. Can it be made with RS... of course yes. Final Fantasy The movie could have been made with povray (text editor) alone. It'not about the
