Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hi, attached is the daumenkino scene. Thanks for contribution! Is there a solution to free the RAM after each frame in RS :-? Checked with RS6 and RS7, same problem, memory usage is growing and growing. Sounds like a memory leak bug. I will check this out, will be fixed in SP1 release for v7. Best regards, Vesa
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
That would be really great :-) Because now you can run out of memory while rendering longer animations :-( Very frustrating if I have a overnight render which is then unfinished the next morning ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Vesa Meskanen v...@realsoft.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi, attached is the daumenkino scene. Thanks for contribution! Is there a solution to free the RAM after each frame in RS :-? Checked with RS6 and RS7, same problem, memory usage is growing and growing. Sounds like a memory leak bug. I will check this out, will be fixed in SP1 release for v7. Best regards, Vesa
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Just downloaded v7 OpenEXR is working fine in my opinion. (I only have to fiddle out the channel naming ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke n...@neilcookegraphics.co.nz To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Off Topic: the list is alive kickin' I agree !!! . I have never believed otherwise. It's there for genuine help I feel and so reassuring to know that there is massive expertise willing to give that help. Thanks to all!!! back to it here :-) N. - Original Message - From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Overwhelming good advice Neil, the list is alive kickin' :) Just to add a bit: rendering reflection and other channels to separate 16bit layers would be very handy, you don't need to re-render the whole thing again when finetuning, just adjust the layers in the post processing/editing software. I haven't delved into this deeply yet but it's high on the list-to-do! If memory serves, Tim Borgmann made a tutorial about this. OpenEXR sounds fantastic, but does it have layers like PSD? A great addition whatever, RS has been designed for high dynamic range internally since V4 - they look years ahead. Neil, strange that it doesn't appear in the available output objects, though. They advertize it, it should be somewhere ;) -Mark H - In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
OpenEXR is working fine in my opinion. Sorry ... my bad. For some absurd reason I missed it in the dialogue box of render options in the one file I looked at. So, for me, even better so far as getting projects broadcast, etc. Great news Matt, and thanks for putting me right on it!! Neil Cooke From: Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:11:15 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Just downloaded v7 OpenEXR is working fine in my opinion. (I only have to fiddle out the channel naming ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke n...@neilcookegraphics.co.nz To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Off Topic: the list is alive kickin' I agree !!! . I have never believed otherwise. It's there for genuine help I feel and so reassuring to know that there is massive expertise willing to give that help. Thanks to all!!! back to it here :-) N. - Original Message - From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Overwhelming good advice Neil, the list is alive kickin' :) Just to add a bit: rendering reflection and other channels to separate 16bit layers would be very handy, you don't need to re-render the whole thing again when finetuning, just adjust the layers in the post processing/editing software. I haven't delved into this deeply yet but it's high on the list-to-do! If memory serves, Tim Borgmann made a tutorial about this. OpenEXR sounds fantastic, but does it have layers like PSD? A great addition whatever, RS has been designed for high dynamic range internally since V4 - they look years ahead. Neil, strange that it doesn't appear in the available output objects, though. They advertize it, it should be somewhere ;) -Mark H - In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00
RE: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hi, I've followed this thread with interest. Where did you say you find the OpenEXR output option, under file/render/available formats? If so, did OpenEXR come as part of the RS3D installation, or was it already on your computer? To the best of my knowledge one has to install MS Visual Studio just to read/write this file format, or is there an easier way? Regards, Frank OpenEXR is working fine in my opinion. Sorry ... my bad. For some absurd reason I missed it in the dialogue box of render options in the one file I looked at. So, for me, even better so far as getting projects broadcast, etc. Great news Matt, and thanks for putting me right on it!! Neil Cooke _ From: Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:11:15 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Just downloaded v7 OpenEXR is working fine in my opinion. (I only have to fiddle out the channel naming ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke n...@neilcookegraphics.co.nz To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Off Topic: the list is alive kickin' I agree !!! . I have never believed otherwise. It's there for genuine help I feel and so reassuring to know that there is massive expertise willing to give that help. Thanks to all!!! back to it here :-) N. - Original Message - From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Overwhelming good advice Neil, the list is alive kickin' :) Just to add a bit: rendering reflection and other channels to separate 16bit layers would be very handy, you don't need to re-render the whole thing again when finetuning, just adjust the layers in the post processing/editing software. I haven't delved into this deeply yet but it's high on the list-to-do! If memory serves, Tim Borgmann made a tutorial about this. OpenEXR sounds fantastic, but does it have layers like PSD? A great addition whatever, RS has been designed for high dynamic range internally since V4 - they look years ahead. Neil, strange that it doesn't appear in the available output objects, though. They advertize it, it should be somewhere ;) -Mark H - In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hi, I've followed this thread with interest. Where did you say you find the OpenEXR output option, under file/render/available formats? If so, did OpenEXR come as part of the RS3D installation, or was it already on your computer? To the best of my knowledge one has to install MS Visual Studio just to read/write this file format, or is there an easier way? A quick note: The new startup project has OpenEXR example included, but if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included. Just go to the Output tab of the select window and create an OpenEXR object using the New/OpenEXR popup menu. Then set appropriate options for it using the property window. I hope this helps! Kind regards, Vesa
RE: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Got it! In a new project OpenEXR is at the top of the list of available formats. Thank you very much for the message, and for the output option. Frank I've followed this thread with interest. Where did you say you find the OpenEXR output option, under file/render/available formats? If so, did OpenEXR come as part of the RS3D installation, or was it already on your computer? To the best of my knowledge one has to install MS Visual Studio just to read/write this file format, or is there an easier way? A quick note: The new startup project has OpenEXR example included, but if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included. Just go to the Output tab of the select window and create an OpenEXR object using the New/OpenEXR popup menu. Then set appropriate options for it using the property window. I hope this helps! Kind regards, Vesa
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included This is what I had done with OpenEXR and yet I knew I had seen it as a file output option ... obviously in a new project!! Thanks Vesa!! From: Vesa Meskanen v...@realsoft.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 7:08:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi, I've followed this thread with interest. Where did you say you find the OpenEXR output option, under file/render/available formats? If so, did OpenEXR come as part of the RS3D installation, or was it already on your computer? To the best of my knowledge one has to install MS Visual Studio just to read/write this file format, or is there an easier way? A quick note: The new startup project has OpenEXR example included, but if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included. Just go to the Output tab of the select window and create an OpenEXR object using the New/OpenEXR popup menu. Then set appropriate options for it using the property window. I hope this helps! Kind regards, Vesa
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included My work around on this with V6 has been to set up a start-up file and import only objects and materials (usually) when working on an old project in a new UI, upgrade, etc. But V7 is still too new for me and my systems havent quite caught up!!! OpenEXR seems to need a reader that I probably dont have but it can be the choice from Production Houses. This will mean checking for poor frames to re-render might not be in-house. Not an issue I need to address until someone decides they want this thing I'm doing but reassuring to know OpenEXR is an option!!! Neil Cooke From: Neil Cooke ne...@xtra.co.nz To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 8:01:22 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included This is what I had done with OpenEXR and yet I knew I had seen it as a file output option . obviously in a new project!! Thanks Vesa!! From: Vesa Meskanen v...@realsoft.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 7:08:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi, I've followed this thread with interest. Where did you say you find the OpenEXR output option, under file/render/available formats? If so, did OpenEXR come as part of the RS3D installation, or was it already on your computer? To the best of my knowledge one has to install MS Visual Studio just to read/write this file format, or is there an easier way? A quick note: The new startup project has OpenEXR example included, but if you load old projects, a new v7 specific object type is naturally not included. Just go to the Output tab of the select window and create an OpenEXR object using the New/OpenEXR popup menu. Then set appropriate options for it using the property window. I hope this helps! Kind regards, Vesa
RE: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Not being able to view your own output must be akward. But Realsoft's very own Show Image can show any image format supported by Realsoft 3D. It can also compose and show temporary image boxes generated by distributed network rendering (excerpt from the manual). It works with openexr too, I just tried. Frank OpenEXR seems to need a reader that I probably dont have but it can be the choice from Production Houses. This will mean checking for poor frames to re-render might not be in-house. Not an issue I need to address until someone decides they want this thing I'm doing but reassuring to know OpenEXR is an option!!! Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in ...avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Another question please what frames per second do Production Houses run to? N. From: Neil Cooke ne...@xtra.co.nz To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:41:16 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke -- From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
I fear that production companies might want even higher resolutions than that. Scaling down to the 720p50 or 1080p50 formats, used for TV broadcasting, is just the last step for distribution over the networks. In movie theatres, I think that the output format is still mostly 1080p24, but in the production line, the resolution and possibly also the frame rate is higher to allow more processing. Also, in some productions, a broadcast company might not even be satisfied with eight bits per channel but require use of 16 bits per channel for RGB images in the production line. I assume that you will have to verify with the company in question what they would need for each particular production. When it comes to demo reels and similar, I suppose that 720p50 and 1080p50 would be just fine as what I assume you want to show off is a finished product and not a step in the production chain. I may be completely off base here, this information is based on weak memories from talks with a local TV company and the talks were not related to CG content. Best Regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Hi All, Other folk have pointed me at OpenEXR but it doesnt seem to be in the available formats in RS V7 but then I probably just dont know what to look for. I have heard that movie wants 2000 pixel widths. And yes, the word so far confirms that 8bit is useless for Production Houses and 16bit is not the best either ... but 32bit gives them all the room they need for grading etc. ... and yes, most certainly I will talk with any Production folk before doing anything. My scare was that RS simply didnt have an export format that could be used but that is wrong. Very many thanks folks!! Smiles here!!! From: fre...@gmail.com fre...@gmail.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 11:22:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 I fear that production companies might want even higher resolutions than that. Scaling down to the 720p50 or 1080p50 formats, used for TV broadcasting, is just the last step for distribution over the networks. In movie theatres, I think that the output format is still mostly 1080p24, but in the production line, the resolution and possibly also the frame rate is higher to allow more processing. Also, in some productions, a broadcast company might not even be satisfied with eight bits per channel but require use of 16 bits per channel for RGB images in the production line. I assume that you will have to verify with the company in question what they would need for each particular production. When it comes to demo reels and similar, I suppose that 720p50 and 1080p50 would be just fine as what I assume you want to show off is a finished product and not a step in the production chain. I may be completely off base here, this information is based on weak memories from talks with a local TV company and the talks were not related to CG content. Best Regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do... I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help on this please. Many Thanks Neil Cooke
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Just ordered a v7 to get a closer look at the formats ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi All, Other folk have pointed me at OpenEXR but it doesnt seem to be in the available formats in RS V7 but then I probably just dont know what to look for. I have heard that movie wants 2000 pixel widths. And yes, the word so far confirms that 8bit is useless for Production Houses and 16bit is not the best either ... but 32bit gives them all the room they need for grading etc. ... and yes, most certainly I will talk with any Production folk before doing anything. My scare was that RS simply didnt have an export format that could be used but that is wrong. Very many thanks folks!! Smiles here!!! -- From: fre...@gmail.com fre...@gmail.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 11:22:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 I fear that production companies might want even higher resolutions than that. Scaling down to the 720p50 or 1080p50 formats, used for TV broadcasting, is just the last step for distribution over the networks. In movie theatres, I think that the output format is still mostly 1080p24, but in the production line, the resolution and possibly also the frame rate is higher to allow more processing. Also, in some productions, a broadcast company might not even be satisfied with eight bits per channel but require use of 16 bits per channel for RGB images in the production line. I assume that you will have to verify with the company in question what they would need for each particular production. When it comes to demo reels and similar, I suppose that 720p50 and 1080p50 would be just fine as what I assume you want to show off is a finished product and not a step in the production chain. I may be completely off base here, this information is based on weak memories from talks with a local TV company and the talks were not related to CG content. Best Regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result when ready! -Mark H -- Hi List, I need to know the best animation output file type in RS V7 for Production Houses to do additional work on. I have been rendering to AVI's at present but have now learnt that AVI and video formats, even when uncompressed are no good. I may be wrong in this. The end result is probably TV, but film specifications would be handy to learn of as well. Urgent help
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Just ordered a v7 to get a closer look at the formats ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi All, Other folk have pointed me at OpenEXR but it doesnt seem to be in the available formats in RS V7 but then I probably just dont know what to look for. I have heard that movie wants 2000 pixel widths. And yes, the word so far confirms that 8bit is useless for Production Houses and 16bit is not the best either ... but 32bit gives them all the room they need for grading etc. ... and yes, most certainly I will talk with any Production folk before doing anything. My scare was that RS simply didnt have an export format that could be used but that is wrong. Very many thanks folks!! Smiles here!!! From: fre...@gmail.com fre...@gmail.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 11:22:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 I fear that production companies might want even higher resolutions than that. Scaling down to the 720p50 or 1080p50 formats, used for TV broadcasting, is just the last step for distribution over the networks. In movie theatres, I think that the output format is still mostly 1080p24, but in the production line, the resolution and possibly also the frame rate is higher to allow more processing. Also, in some productions, a broadcast company might not even be satisfied with eight bits per channel but require use of 16 bits per channel for RGB images in the production line. I assume that you will have to verify with the company in question what they would need for each particular production. When it comes to demo reels and similar, I suppose that 720p50 and 1080p50 would be just fine as what I assume you want to show off is a finished product and not a step in the production chain. I may be completely off base here, this information is based on weak memories from talks with a local TV company and the talks were not related to CG content. Best Regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me if they can't handle separate frames. Also, sometimes the occasional frame contains render artifacts, it would be hard to correct this if all you have is an avi. If making an avi, I use the and widely used Xvid codec. Good luck, please show the result
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Tiff has 16bit support in RS v6, too ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: fre...@gmail.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:53 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Just ordered a v7 to get a closer look at the formats ;-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hi All, Other folk have pointed me at OpenEXR but it doesnt seem to be in the available formats in RS V7 but then I probably just dont know what to look for. I have heard that movie wants 2000 pixel widths. And yes, the word so far confirms that 8bit is useless for Production Houses and 16bit is not the best either ... but 32bit gives them all the room they need for grading etc. ... and yes, most certainly I will talk with any Production folk before doing anything. My scare was that RS simply didnt have an export format that could be used but that is wrong. Very many thanks folks!! Smiles here!!! From: fre...@gmail.com fre...@gmail.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 11:22:36 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 I fear that production companies might want even higher resolutions than that. Scaling down to the 720p50 or 1080p50 formats, used for TV broadcasting, is just the last step for distribution over the networks. In movie theatres, I think that the output format is still mostly 1080p24, but in the production line, the resolution and possibly also the frame rate is higher to allow more processing. Also, in some productions, a broadcast company might not even be satisfied with eight bits per channel but require use of 16 bits per channel for RGB images in the production line. I assume that you will have to verify with the company in question what they would need for each particular production. When it comes to demo reels and similar, I suppose that 720p50 and 1080p50 would be just fine as what I assume you want to show off is a finished product and not a step in the production chain. I may be completely off base here, this information is based on weak memories from talks with a local TV company and the talks were not related to CG content. Best Regards, Fredrik 2009/12/18 Matthias Kappenberg m...@the-dimension.com: Hi Neil, if they need it for postproduction in Nuke or Fusion maybe openexr is the best solution (because of floatingpoint channels, maybe for depth compositing) If they only need it for simple postproduction tasks, compressed tga with alpha channel can do a good job, too. Because tga has a lossless compression. If they're working with Adobe products like AE, a layered Photoshop sequence can be a good thing, too. Some additional links to film formats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV Maybe you should ask them if they need progressive or interlaced images :-? Matthias - Original Message - From: Neil Cooke To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 You just saved a life there Mark. Very many thanks. Looks like the .bmp is what I'll do. I had been using the PAL 720x576 but I will shift to the 1280x720 as you recommend. I shudder to think what this will do to render times and file sizes but there is no other way to go so I best get on with it!! I think I will still do the scribble renders in .avi. Compressed since they are only for checking. I am two weeks into a project and it is going very well. I might post random takes on YouTube but have no wish to put the whole story out there until it has been to market. A tight budget here so I best get back to it!! Thanks again, Neil Cooke From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-l...@light.realsoft3d...com Sent: Sat, 19 December, 2009 10:27:58 AM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Hey Neil, I always render separate frames, bmp or tga if an alpha channel is required. Usually HD 1280x720. It's up to the production house to process these frames as required, it would seem strange to me
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Overwhelming good advice Neil, the list is alive kickin' :) Just to add a bit: rendering reflection and other channels to separate 16bit layers would be very handy, you don't need to re-render the whole thing again when finetuning, just adjust the layers in the post processing/editing software. I haven't delved into this deeply yet but it's high on the list-to-do! If memory serves, Tim Borgmann made a tutorial about this. OpenEXR sounds fantastic, but does it have layers like PSD? A great addition whatever, RS has been designed for high dynamic range internally since V4 - they look years ahead. Neil, strange that it doesn't appear in the available output objects, though. They advertize it, it should be somewhere ;) -Mark H - In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik
Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7
Off Topic: the list is alive kickin' I agree !!! . I have never believed otherwise. It's there for genuine help I feel and so reassuring to know that there is massive expertise willing to give that help. Thanks to all!!! back to it here :-) N. - Original Message - From: Mark atha...@casema.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Animation File Formats in RS V7 Overwhelming good advice Neil, the list is alive kickin' :) Just to add a bit: rendering reflection and other channels to separate 16bit layers would be very handy, you don't need to re-render the whole thing again when finetuning, just adjust the layers in the post processing/editing software. I haven't delved into this deeply yet but it's high on the list-to-do! If memory serves, Tim Borgmann made a tutorial about this. OpenEXR sounds fantastic, but does it have layers like PSD? A great addition whatever, RS has been designed for high dynamic range internally since V4 - they look years ahead. Neil, strange that it doesn't appear in the available output objects, though. They advertize it, it should be somewhere ;) -Mark H - In v6 it seems as if Photoshop files are the way to go if you need more than eight bits per channel. In RS it seems to support 16 bits at least. What you do is go to the Output objects tab of the select window and create a new Photoshop object. Then set the option for 16 bit and you can use this for rendering. In the talks with the TV company I mentioned, the SGI RGB format was identified as capable of deeper channels. Of course, this format isn't in RS as far as I know. When it comes to choosing an eight bit format, I suggest that you go PNG. That has lossless compression and is license free. *wink* Best regards, Fredrik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00
RE: animation
Thank you all for the kind words! @Mark: Motion blur has been done with the ReelSmart Motion Blur plugin for After Effects. This is a very nice plugin, no need to render subsamples per frame. And you can adjust the amount of blur interactively. This plugin can create motionblur based on the movement of pixels inside the image sequence. But you get best results when you've got a motion vector image. With this image RSMB knows how much to blur in which direction. Unfortunately Realsoft cannot output such files at the moment. I already suggested support for such output ;) AA was at its standard (best) setting, no scaling. Well, for this mpeg it was scaled down from 720x576 to 512 x288. Anyway I'll show two images as they were rendered (rendered with a 1.422 pixel aspect ratio): www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/autostill_Rend.jpg www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/autostill_AE.jpg The first is the pure render. The second shows the final frame as adjusted with After Effects. To keep rendertimes as low as possible I chose to use simple hard shadows. I rendered a multipass sequence, and then blurred the shadowpass in AE to make it a bit softer. Not an entirely perfect solution as you can see around the tires of the car, but it hardly shows in the animation ;) Of course (beside the motionblur) this would be renderable in RS too. But it will be quite a bit slower. Not the normal way of rendering I mean, but network rendering. Network rendering with RS is great for stills, but not for animation. The overhead of sending parts of each frame to all the servers is not very efficient. C4D breaks the animation into sequences and sends these to the servers. The still above, took about 2 minutes to render on a 2,4 GHz quadcore Arjo. Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Mark Heuymans Verzonden: dinsdag 15 juli 2008 22:58 Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Onderwerp: Re: animation Nice, very smooth and detailed animation! Motion blur, excellent AA... Was it scaled down? I wonder if this would be renderable in RS, or is it too slow... BTW the mill you showed earlier is great too :) forgot to congratulate you... -Mark Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo.
Re: animation
Arjo, thanks for the detailed explanations, this mail goes into the archive! I'll have to invest in software to keep up... -Mark Thank you all for the kind words! @Mark: Motion blur has been done with the ReelSmart Motion Blur plugin for After Effects. This is a very nice plugin, no need to render subsamples per frame. And you can adjust the amount of blur interactively. This plugin can create motionblur based on the movement of pixels inside the image sequence. But you get best results when you've got a motion vector image. With this image RSMB knows how much to blur in which direction. Unfortunately Realsoft cannot output such files at the moment. I already suggested support for such output ;) AA was at its standard (best) setting, no scaling. Well, for this mpeg it was scaled down from 720x576 to 512 x288. Anyway I'll show two images as they were rendered (rendered with a 1.422 pixel aspect ratio): www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/autostill_Rend.jpg www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/autostill_AE.jpg [snip]
Re: animation
- Original Message - From: Arjo Rozendaal To: reallist Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: animation Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo. superb a brilliant animation Alasdair
RE: animation
Nice job Arjo Regards Jason _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arjo Rozendaal Sent: 15 July 2008 13:16 To: reallist Subject: animation Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo.
Re: animation
Great animation, Arjo! Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though… www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpghttp://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejoly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo.
Re: animation
Really nice, many thanks Arjo. - Original Message - From: Arjo Rozendaal To: reallist Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:16 AM Subject: animation Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo.
Re: animation
Nice, very smooth and detailed animation! Motion blur, excellent AA... Was it scaled down? I wonder if this would be renderable in RS, or is it too slow... BTW the mill you showed earlier is great too :) forgot to congratulate you... -Mark Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo.
Re: animation
Arjo Rozendaal wrote: Hi, Some of you asked to show the animation with the road and trees. I made a short movie out of it. It's still 15 Mb though. www.xs4all.nl/~joly/temp/n50project.mpg Arjo. Nice! and inspiring. ThankZ for posting it. Zaug
Re: Animation as 3D texture
Hello, I'm trying to use an animation as a 3d texture, but I can't think of a way to use map coords' z axis as an input instead of time. I even tried to choreograph the current frame index with map z as input, but it didn't work. Any ideas? I cant's see a way to achieve this with the existing VSL objects. Maybe a new '3D bitmap' VSL object is needed. In other words, a 3D array of channel data which could be initialized from a texture sequence (or manually by typing the array values). Best regards, Vesa
