Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Personally, I would think that Cocoon 2.1 is the most well-developed and stable of the series. 2.0 is really out-of-date. 2.2 might be worth tackling if you're prepared to learn the associated frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate, plus be prepared to do Java coding; but, as many others have pointed out, the documentation is not adequate (not that this problem is unique to 2.2, as you will see by trawling through the dim-and-distant archives). David Beasley david.beas...@publishingtechnology.com 09/10/09 6:46 PM Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm beginning to think that I should use Cocoon 2.0, because at least I know this is well documented. Which is a shame after people have put a lot of effort into developing versions 2.1 and 2.2 ... David Legg wrote: Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html Thanks, yes, I'd already looked at that. Its a handy starting point, but it really only scratches the surface. But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Thanks, I've taken a look. I can see that there's low level documentation there, but not much to give me an overview, put things into context, show how everything hangs together. I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Do you really think that's how long it takes to become proficient in using Cocoon?! I was hoping to knock this off in a few weeks. Isn't that the point of application development frameworks like Cocoon - to make development times an order of magnitude faster? regards David Beasley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Thanks for all the further suggestions. I'll use Coccon 2.1. (I dont know anything about Spring/Maven/Hibernate) Derek Hohls wrote: Personally, I would think that Cocoon 2.1 is the most well-developed and stable of the series. 2.0 is really out-of-date. 2.2 might be worth tackling if you're prepared to learn the associated frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate, plus be prepared to do Java coding; but, as many others have pointed out, the documentation is not adequate (not that this problem is unique to 2.2, as you will see by trawling through the dim-and-distant archives). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Hello I wrote two applications using CForms, Spring and Hibernate in Cocoon 2.1. It found it relatively easy to upgrade them to Cocoon 2.2. I think that CForms, Spring and Hibernate work very well together. But the same client also has a couple of old applications which still run in Cocoon 2.0 and use a lot of xsp. They can be upgraded to Cocoon 2.1 but not to Cocoon 2.2 because it does not have xsp. They would have to be re-written using new techniques but there is no budget for it at present. If we upgrade we have to decide where to move them to: Cocoon 2.2 or Cocoon 3.0 which is not an easy decision with the current status of Cocoon. Barbara - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
...which in turn would result in Hippo 7 to get a Cocoon front-end, right? :-) Well yes that could indeed happen, but we're not there yet. :-) Jeroen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? Ellis. On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
On 10/sep/09, at 15:05, Ellis Pritchard wrote: Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? I am. On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg -- Francesco Chicchiriccò Delivery Manager everett Italia ▸ TRUSTED TO KNOW Head Office Via Torino, 2 - 20123 Milano - Italia Tel: +39 02 72546847 Fax: +39 02 72546418 Technology Centre Via Federico Fellini, 2 G2/1 - 65010 Spoltore (PE) - Italia Tel: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Fax: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Mob: +39 329 0573276 e-mail: francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it Web: http://www.everett.it
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote: On 10/sep/09, at 15:05, Ellis Pritchard wrote: Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? I am. I am as well. It would be a shame if cocoon would not be developed further. It is really a great platform! On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk mailto:david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg -- Francesco Chicchiriccò Delivery Manager everett Italia ▸ TRUSTED TO *KNOW* Head Office Via Torino, 2 - 20123 Milano - Italia Tel: +39 02 72546847 Fax: +39 02 72546418 Technology Centre Via Federico Fellini, 2 G2/1 - 65010 Spoltore (PE) - Italia Tel: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Fax: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Mob: +39 329 0573276 e-mail: francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it mailto:francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it Web: http://www.everett.it http://www.everett.it/ -- Andre H. Juffer | Phone: +358-8-553 1161 Biocenter Oulu and | Fax: +358-8-553-1141 Department of Biochemistry | Email: andre.juf...@oulu.fi University of Oulu, Finland | WWW: www.biochem.oulu.fi/Biocomputing/ StruBioCat | WWW: www.strubiocat.oulu.fi NordProt | WWW: www.nordprot.org Triacle Biocomputing | WWW: www.triacle-bc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Well I think that some people have put Cocoon on a low profile. There were a lot of great frameworks added to the ASF code base lately, which made people broaden their perspective. I don't really think that people quit working with/on Cocoon, because Cocoon 2.1 is stable and a lot of people are using it. Cocoon 2.2 however has slowed down in development, but did not really stop. Some developers have started working on Cocooon 3.0 alpha, which is still under development. One of the great things of a community is that the more people get involved into the project, the more the project evolves. Don't be shy to still keep working with Cocoon. One of the things on my todo list is to do some work on the Cocoon JCR block. I don't really have an estimate on when I can find some time, but I hope it to be soon. Regards, Jeroen Andre Juffer wrote: Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote: On 10/sep/09, at 15:05, Ellis Pritchard wrote: Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? I am. I am as well. It would be a shame if cocoon would not be developed further. It is really a great platform! On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk mailto:david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg -- Francesco Chicchiriccò Delivery Manager everett Italia ▸ TRUSTED TO *KNOW* Head Office Via Torino, 2 - 20123 Milano - Italia Tel: +39 02 72546847 Fax: +39 02 72546418 Technology Centre Via Federico Fellini, 2 G2/1 - 65010 Spoltore (PE) - Italia Tel: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Fax: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Mob: +39 329 0573276 e-mail: francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it mailto:francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it Web: http://www.everett.it http://www.everett.it/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
On 10/sep/09, at 16:55, Jeroen Reijn wrote Well I think that some people have put Cocoon on a low profile. There were a lot of great frameworks added to the ASF code base lately, which made people broaden their perspective. I don't really think that people quit working with/on Cocoon, because Cocoon 2.1 is stable and a lot of people are using it. Cocoon 2.2 however has slowed down in development, but did not really stop. Some developers have started working on Cocooon 3.0 alpha, which is still under development. One of the great things of a community is that the more people get involved into the project, the more the project evolves. Don't be shy to still keep working with Cocoon. One of the things on my todo list is to do some work on the Cocoon JCR block. I don't really have an estimate on when I can find some time, but I hope it to be soon. ...which in turn would result in Hippo 7 to get a Cocoon front-end, right? :-) Andre Juffer wrote: Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote: On 10/sep/09, at 15:05, Ellis Pritchard wrote: Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? I am. I am as well. It would be a shame if cocoon would not be developed further. It is really a great platform! On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk mailto:david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg -- Francesco Chicchiriccò Delivery Manager everett Italia ▸ TRUSTED TO KNOW Head Office Via Torino, 2 - 20123 Milano - Italia Tel: +39 02 72546847 Fax: +39 02 72546418 Technology Centre Via Federico Fellini, 2 G2/1 - 65010 Spoltore (PE) - Italia Tel: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Fax: +39 085 2120342 / +39 085 2120537 Mob: +39 329 0573276 e-mail: francesco.chicchiri...@everett.it Web: http://www.everett.it
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
IMHO, developers tend to mirror the general population in that the majority follow the herd. The habits of imperative Java programming and the not-invented-here syndrome meant that Cocoon was only ever going to appeal to a minority of enlightened developers. Maven is a head f*ck for the average Joe and so perhaps Cocoon 2.2 is a bridge too far. The paradigm shift to XML pipelines is enough to cope with. I'm still working with 2.11 and it works fine for me. 2009/9/10 Ellis Pritchard el...@mobi1.co.uk Lamentable indeed. Having taken a break from Cocoon 2.1 at work, and returned to 2.2, after much pain and frustration at recreating what was in cocoon using 'pure' java and spring mvc + freemarker (urgh) + 1000's of lines of horrible java to do stuff cocoon did for free, I realize how much I miss the simple power of the platform. For XML content, there is simply nothing better. 2.2 really should have been finished: user docs, the halfway house between spring and Avalon, missing blocks (eventcache anyone?)... it's all so close and yet so far. I'd love to get involved in polishing this stuff, but I've never really been part of the 'community', just finding and reporting tricky defects! Is there any interest out there for futher work on 2.2? Ellis. On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:56, David Legg david.l...@searchevent.co.uk wrote: Hi David, I'm just about to embark on a new project... I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. It is true that Cocoon has hit a low point at the moment and I'm sure many of us wonder if it will ever recover. Many of the original contributors have moved on to other things and officially version 2 (and 2.2) are in 'maintenance mode'. Version 3 is still being worked on but to be honest it looks so different that you will be starting again from scratch compared to version 2. It's a great shame as I really thought version 2.2 was beginning to gain traction. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I would archive that book on version 2! It will be of little use to you when working with 2.2. Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Yes!... It is a horrible mess and I have commented about this before but was persuaded it was for the best. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Regards, David Legg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm beginning to think that I should use Cocoon 2.0, because at least I know this is well documented. Which is a shame after people have put a lot of effort into developing versions 2.1 and 2.2 ... David Legg wrote: Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html Thanks, yes, I'd already looked at that. Its a handy starting point, but it really only scratches the surface. But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Thanks, I've taken a look. I can see that there's low level documentation there, but not much to give me an overview, put things into context, show how everything hangs together. I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Do you really think that's how long it takes to become proficient in using Cocoon?! I was hoping to knock this off in a few weeks. Isn't that the point of application development frameworks like Cocoon - to make development times an order of magnitude faster? regards David Beasley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
RE: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Just my 2 cents... I think that if you have Cocoon experience from prior projects, it should be fairly easy to start a new Cocoon2.2 project. If you have basic knowledge about Spring and Maven you should come a long way. I build all my projects with Cocoon2.2 nowadays and I would not want to go back. Whereas I used flowscript very heavily in the past, I'm tending towards java based solutions more and more and Cocoon3.0 sounds promising with it's REST-controllers. Wondering if there is a date ahead for a first release candidate? ;-) Cheers, Robby Pelssers -Original Message- From: David Beasley [mailto:david.beas...@publishingtechnology.com] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:44 PM To: users@cocoon.apache.org Subject: Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2 Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm beginning to think that I should use Cocoon 2.0, because at least I know this is well documented. Which is a shame after people have put a lot of effort into developing versions 2.1 and 2.2 ... David Legg wrote: Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html Thanks, yes, I'd already looked at that. Its a handy starting point, but it really only scratches the surface. But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Thanks, I've taken a look. I can see that there's low level documentation there, but not much to give me an overview, put things into context, show how everything hangs together. I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Do you really think that's how long it takes to become proficient in using Cocoon?! I was hoping to knock this off in a few weeks. Isn't that the point of application development frameworks like Cocoon - to make development times an order of magnitude faster? regards David Beasley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
David Beasley wrote: I'm looking for help with starting to use Cocoon 2.2. I've looked at the website (cocoon.apache.org), but havent found very much in terms of introductory guides, tutorials, etc. Tutorials are something that is really lacking. I don't know if it is me, but I think that documentation on open source projects seem to have gotten worse over the years. One observation I have made is looking at a lot of the blog entries I have stumbled upon via Google, it seems a lot of people are n't looking at the docs to find out how Cocoon 2.2 works. Instead, most people seem to be diving into the code. This is far from optimal. I'm just about to embark on a new project, which will involve handling SOAP requests, fetching data from an Oracle database, and returning reports as XML documents. I'd like to use Cocoon 2.2 for this, but I'm concerned about the apparent lack of support for it. Can anyone suggest any resources that will help me get started with Cocoon 2.2? I've got a book on Cocoon 2.0 (Langham Ziegeler), and I have a tiny amount of experience with Cocoon 2.0. I'm wondering if I would just be better off using Cocoon 2.0, as there seems to be more support for this. I would recommend starting off by playing with Cocoon 2.1 and then moving to Cocoon 2.2 once you have some confidence with Cocoon 2.1. Just don't worry too much about XSPs as they are deprecated in Cocoon 2.2 Having said this, I see that the Cocoon wiki (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon) hasnt been updated since Jan 2008, that there's no FAQ for 2.2, and that no books on Cocoon have been published in the past 5 years. I'm concerned that interest in and support for Cocoon is dying out. Would I be better off choosing a completely different technology for my project? I don't think the focus should be on the wiki. The daisy website (for all its navigational flaws) provides much better documentation. I would love to contribute code and documentation to Cocoon, but considering my last contribution (which was over 1 year ago) hasn't been released, I wonder if there is a point. -- Kamal Bhatt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
David Beasley wrote: Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm beginning to think that I should use Cocoon 2.0, because at least I know this is well documented. Which is a shame after people have put a lot of effort into developing versions 2.1 and 2.2 ... I would recommend Cocoon 2.1. The documentation isn't too bad (http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/) and based on my experience with the Cocoon book, I don't think they are that different. I am pretty sure no one is maintaining Cocoon 2.0, so you are better off with cocoon 2.1. David Legg wrote: Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html Thanks, yes, I'd already looked at that. Its a handy starting point, but it really only scratches the surface. But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Thanks, I've taken a look. I can see that there's low level documentation there, but not much to give me an overview, put things into context, show how everything hangs together. I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Do you really think that's how long it takes to become proficient in using Cocoon?! I was hoping to knock this off in a few weeks. Isn't that the point of application development frameworks like Cocoon - to make development times an order of magnitude faster? regards David Beasley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org -- Kamal Bhatt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Version 2.1 is still king for me! On 11/09/2009, at 2:44 AM, David Beasley wrote: Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm beginning to think that I should use Cocoon 2.0, because at least I know this is well documented. Which is a shame after people have put a lot of effort into developing versions 2.1 and 2.2 ... David Legg wrote: Most of the useful documentation can be found here: - http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/dev-docs/2.2/1159_1_1.html Thanks, yes, I'd already looked at that. Its a handy starting point, but it really only scratches the surface. But you should be aware that this is the 'published' version of the documentation. It may be the case that the 'unpublished' versions are more up to date. To get to them you can click on the link at the bottom of the page where it mentions 'Errors and Improvements'. This link will take you to the Daisy CMS which is what Cocoon members use to write and edit documentation before it gets published. Thanks, I've taken a look. I can see that there's low level documentation there, but not much to give me an overview, put things into context, show how everything hangs together. I would say think seriously before you commit another year or two of your life to learning it! Do you really think that's how long it takes to become proficient in using Cocoon?! I was hoping to knock this off in a few weeks. Isn't that the point of application development frameworks like Cocoon - to make development times an order of magnitude faster? regards David Beasley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Starting out with Cocoon 2.2
Hi, Recognizing the feeling of disconcertation when after having worked with Cocoon 2.1 one comes back and finds out about Cocoon 2.2. - many things have changed, (striving towards MVC paradigm) which is OK, if things are improving - Cocoon still depends on Avalon (which caused me troubles in the past) - and most important: Maven is very powerful and practical, I was impressed by just having to download the artifacts and after two magical lines I have an eclipse project and a running sample. It hides lots of complexity and that is at times its biggest danger. Suppose you consider Cocoon for a product or project, then you would want to know what you are doing, what you need to include and where it is all coming from. Making your own distribution is not for the faint of heart. Now coming back after a few months I was quite surprised in the positive sense by Cocoon 3: - only the spring dependency would remain, allowing architechts to really start considering cocoon as part of a solution - architecture evolving nicely towards REST, whilst keeping the good and powerful part: the sitemap and the pipelines. Yep, this is what I was waiting for. The most important objection that remains is documentation. As an execise I tried to package Cocoon-3 differently, without 'Reloading Class Loader', and it turned out a difficult exercise. Tampering a bit with the architecture is always a good exercise when you want to evaluate an upcoming product. It gives you right an answer to the question how modular is it really?. Maybe I could drop a line in the documentation about that, when the wiki is reorganised. Best, Jos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
