Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
Hello Paul, Le 01.10.2014 00:55, Paul a écrit : Hi Charles, On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:32:53 +0200 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello Paul On 30 septembre 2014 15:38:26 CEST, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more... On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:54:58 +0200 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Le 30.09.2014 13:26, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 9/29/2014 2:55 PM, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Fresh is stable but because it's had new features added we can expect to find that some things that don't so well in Fresh and yet still find that they work perfectly fine in Still. To many of us that all sounds like a lot of politicians, or marketing, double-speak. Agreed. Why for criminy's sake reinvent these terms using such nonsensical words? Just use *estabalished* terms, aka Debian... Stable (Still). Testing (Fresh). Unstable (Development). This is really just a ridiculous state of affairs. I am sorry to say this, but what is ridiculous here is the inability of some to even understand what is being discussed. I'm afraid, Charles, that this applies to you too. Everyone seems to be talking at cross-purposes. Fresh is not testing. It has never been testing. And yet, from the perspective of the terminology many, many people are used to from so very many other projects, it *is* the testing branch. While several other projects use this system not all of them do. Are you baffled at Firefox three release channels that has one long term support another similar to our Fresh branch and a true testing one? I don't see these on the Firefox site, I see Firefox, Firefox Beta and Firefox Aurora, and these seem to have a passable explanation. I would have liked a slightly better, or more in-depth one, but at least I do get an idea of what each is for. But the use of the name Beta makes that one clear, and Aurora explains that it is in an unstable state, so all makes sense. For you it is maybe, not for others. For instance, if you put this: https://www.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/channel/#firefox and that: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/ in perspective, some here are going to go into overdrive, as they will not be able to see the difference between the Firefox standard channel and the ESR. Then, they will say, OMG, it means Firefox is not stable, because there's an ESR that is obviously stable, which means Firefox = Firefox Beta, so what does it mean? Are you crazy?. Pun aside, this is the kind of talk that's been going for some years and while I do not claim that the name or labeling of our branch is perfect or has been perfect in the past, I do note the unspoken assumptions that involve ignorance, deep misunderstanding, mixing of different concepts (distributions, QA stage, branches, and al.) Of course I do note the need for a better explanation as well and I think we agree on this, but while it may not be up to the users to understand what a distribution or a branch is technology-wise, some people here have ensured they would be confused to hell with these notions. For instance, automatically assuming that our most recent branch is unstable involves an intellectual choice, a labeling of a branch and a peremptory judgement when it is not based on facts and at least some basic knowledge of the system, the basic knowledge being not only readily accessible but having been explained time and over again. If one keeps saying that this branch is unstable or that two branches are confusing, it will also create a self-fulfilling prophecy or at least set a discussion framework that will bend towards these values and judgements. I have rarely seen - and must commend you for being one of the only few having a different attitude- an actual attempt to positively qualify the two branches. I have read one recent post that was proposing to insert, if I got this right, the notion of RISK. RISK? really? Why automatically assume danger? Have you lost content with any of the two branches of LibreOffice ? Were you able to recover it? How frequent was your data loss? I dare to presume not a lot of people experienced that (and for the ones who ever did, it is needless to say that I'm sorry they did experience that, btw), and as such, there is no RISK, there is no danger, there is no adventure or wild card to be played. Unfortunately again, that is the kind of thing that has circulated on this mailing list for quite some time. I'm sure we can explain things better, but I'm also sure a few people with regular roles here could be willing to understand things better. Call me callous but this perspective has been encouraged here on this list for some years so I actually think that while nothing is perfect, far from that, there is a magnifying glass on the matter here. Yes, I'm sure there is. And worth noting. Where I
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
Hi :) It's not quite that simple :( With Fresh the new features probably will work just fine. They have been about as thoroughly tested as possible. It's any pre-existing stuff that could be broken. If it was just the new features that were possibly broken then there would be no real worry about using Fresh. people could just carry on using LibreOffice in the same way they were doing previously. The problem is often that people try to carry on doing things and suddenly find that it doesn't work anymore because it's broken in Fresh. Often the simplest fix is just to go back to Still and then magically everything works just fine for them again. Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 03:01, alphacrash v837...@att.net wrote: Hi, Paul-6 wrote So far I have heard a lot of defense of the current terminology, butmost of it has been to point out that the alternatives are not better(a debatable point), very little has been to point out why the currentterminology is any good. And very little has been said about any otherconsiderations, like the need for better explanation. Fair enough criticism. Let me be specific: CLEAR RISK WARNING. The terms: Unstable, Stable and Old-Stable HAVE AN INTRINSIC RISK WARNING. The terms: Fresh and Still ARE DEVOID OF ANY INDICATION OF RISK. They require a cross-reference. And even then if the cross-reference does not clearly identify the risk, you will have still succeeded in misdirecting the user into more risk than they may desire. Here's an idea: (and it's just an idea) Plain English Risk Level Libre Office No Risk Level What the user NEEDS to know in terms of RISK. Unstable / Testing Fragrant This is the testing version. This is where we try all the new and funky ideas for features. When we get enough users using a particular feature to give us confidence that it is ready for release into the stable platform, it will be. Tests fail. That's why they are tests. Documents may not be compatible with the next stable version. Use this to try the new and experimental features and concepts. DON'T EVEN THINK OF USING THIS FOR CRITICAL DOCUMENTS. Stable Fresh This is the current stable version. This version has passed the LO file handling test suite and has not shown itself to create any problems with existing documents from previous versions. This version contains new features which may not be backward compatible. As issues are found they are corrected with updates. There is some risk that the new things may not work as desired. If that happens just click on the old-stable icon and continue in the old-stable version. Please report any issues you find. USE THIS FOR DOCUMENTS THAT ARE NOT CRITICAL. Old Stable Still This is the final version of the previous stable version with all patches and updates. This has the least risk of creating problems with any of your existing documents from previous versions. This lacks the new features of the stable and testing versions. USE THIS FOR CRITICAL AND COMPLEX DOCUMENTS FROM PREVIOUS VERSIONS. Archive Sedentary These are all the previous final old-stable versions of each series. They are here for users that found some functionality useful. (i.e. discontinued word processor format outputs, etc.). These versions are no longer supported. DON'T BOTHER ASKING ABOUT THESE VERSIONS, NOBODY WILL ANSWER. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Still-tp4117297p4124368.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
On 9/30/2014 5:50 PM, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: Personally I would vote for something like Stable-Current or Stable-Features and Stable-Mature, or terms in that vein, but I have to agree, choosing those sorts of terms would be more in line with the explanations of what they are intended for that are given so often here. I didn't make it clear, but I really wouldn't care what came after the '-', so I'd be perfectly fine even with something as simple as 'Stable+' instead of 'Fresh' (what are you marketing? Air freshener? I mean, seriously). -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
On 10/1/2014 5:06 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I don't see these on the Firefox site, I see Firefox, Firefox Beta and Firefox Aurora, and these seem to have a passable explanation. I would have liked a slightly better, or more in-depth one, but at least I do get an idea of what each is for. But the use of the name Beta makes that one clear, and Aurora explains that it is in an unstable state, so all makes sense. For you it is maybe, not for others. For instance, if you put this: https://www.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/channel/#firefox and that: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/ in perspective, some here are going to go into overdrive, as they will not be able to see the difference between the Firefox standard channel and the ESR. This is a really bad example, Charles, and totally misses the main point: As Paul said, he *didn't see* those from the main Firefox website. That is *intentional*. Mozilla explained this in great detail when they were pushed kicking and screaming (sic) to offer the ESR version. They did not want to do this. Their enterprise users demanded it. They would have lost a huge user base if they had NOT done this. So, when they did it, they intentionally made the ESR version *hard to find*. That is why Paul couldn't find it. Then, they will say, OMG, it means Firefox is not stable, because there's an ESR that is obviously stable, which means Firefox = Firefox Beta, so what does it mean? Are you crazy?. No, the vast majority of Firefox users don't even know there is an ESR, and if they do learn about it, they are usually told something like oh, that is the version for large companies who don't like things that change too much or too fast. For instance, automatically assuming that our most recent branch is unstable rant Charles, fyi, in our office, we are stuck on 4.1.6 because of a major regression introduced in 4.2 that is still there today. When our first user reported this after I started updating everyone (at about 4.2.4), so I had to revert them all (I'd gotten maybe 20 workstations updated that weekend). I kept promising my boss that 'they will have to fix this, it is a regression and they treat these seriously' - but here we are, 8 months later, and we still cannot upgrade. Because everyone found about about this, a few very vocal users in our office took this opportunity to start lobbying (again) for replacing Libreoffice with Microsoft Office, and it looks like they are going to win this time. I know it is only 70 seats, and you probably don't really care, but I do. The fact is, I cannot even recommend Libreoffice on new clients in good conscience, if the response to a very serious regression bug report is along the lines of 'well, you can just fix it yourself, it is free open source after all'. *Anytime* a long standing feature is totally ripped out and replaced with something else that causes a major regression, it should be an absolute top priority to fix it in the very next release. In fact, I would say that it should be a part of the agreement that any contributor signs, that if they are the one responsible for a regression like this, they are *required* to fix it asap. So, for us, 4.2 and 4.3 are *both* unstable - meaning, we *cannot use them*, because they lack a very basic capability that we have relied on since, oh, I don't know... version 1? In case you were wondering, it is the new 'Inline Fields' functionality, that when introduced, broke the ability to paste into them, and the bug is still there today, in 4.3.2. /rant -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: problems with the spell checker
Tim == Tim Lloyd tim.ll...@gmx.com writes: Hi, This list does not accept attachments. However, if you nip over to the nabble interface: Http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html That does accept attachments so you can post there. Thanks, meanwhile I found out that I had to run the command apt-get install myspell-he myspell-en-us To make it work. Uwe -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] insert empty (check) box: bound to a key
Hello I insert a check box, by using insert-symbol and then I select the symbol in question. Can I bind this to a key, say shift+insert inserts already the check box. I presume I have to write a macro? Thanks Uwe Brauer -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi Tanstaalf, In the thread LibreOffice Still you made a very important point, however it has absolutely nothing to do with the main point of the discussion on how to name versions and I just by chance noted it. You then might have a chance of having it dealt with. Werner P.S. Just a LO user who sometimes reads this list but just about every time get frustrated with it due to the misuse of threads! On 10/1/2014 12:27, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/1/2014 5:06 AM, Charles-H. Schulz ... rant Charles, fyi, in our office, we are stuck on 4.1.6 because of a major regression introduced in 4.2 that is still there today. When our first user reported this after I started updating everyone (at about 4.2.4), so I had to revert them all (I'd gotten maybe 20 workstations updated that weekend). I kept promising my boss that 'they will have to fix this, it is a regression and they treat these seriously' - but here we are, 8 months later, and we still cannot upgrade. Because everyone found about about this, a few very vocal users in our office took this opportunity to start lobbying (again) for replacing Libreoffice with Microsoft Office, and it looks like they are going to win this time. I know it is only 70 seats, and you probably don't really care, but I do. The fact is, I cannot even recommend Libreoffice on new clients in good conscience, if the response to a very serious regression bug report is along the lines of 'well, you can just fix it yourself, it is free open source after all'. *Anytime* a long standing feature is totally ripped out and replaced with something else that causes a major regression, it should be an absolute top priority to fix it in the very next release. In fact, I would say that it should be a part of the agreement that any contributor signs, that if they are the one responsible for a regression like this, they are *required* to fix it asap. So, for us, 4.2 and 4.3 are *both* unstable - meaning, we *cannot use them*, because they lack a very basic capability that we have relied on since, oh, I don't know... version 1? In case you were wondering, it is the new 'Inline Fields' functionality, that when introduced, broke the ability to paste into them, and the bug is still there today, in 4.3.2. /rant -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: problems with the spell checker
Hi :) Wow!! Congrats! Nicely found! I tend to have trouble dealing with spelling or font issues. Tim of Kracked Press keeps handling those types of questions so well that i've never really learnt for myself. I really should play around with his suggestions and learn how he does it. Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 11:37, Uwe Brauer o...@mat.ucm.es wrote: Tim == Tim Lloyd tim.ll...@gmx.com writes: Hi, This list does not accept attachments. However, if you nip over to the nabble interface: Http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Users-f1639498.html That does accept attachments so you can post there. Thanks, meanwhile I found out that I had to run the command apt-get install myspell-he myspell-en-us To make it work. Uwe -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
Hi, Le 01/10/2014 12:27, Tanstaafl a écrit : [...] *Anytime* a long standing feature is totally ripped out and replaced with something else that causes a major regression, it should be an absolute top priority to fix it in the very next release. In fact, I would say that it should be a part of the agreement that any contributor signs, that if they are the one responsible for a regression like this, they are *required* to fix it asap. Why should a volunteer fix the bug for your company? Very strange way to see the LibreOffice ecosystem. So, for us, 4.2 and 4.3 are *both* unstable - meaning, we *cannot use them*, because they lack a very basic capability that we have relied on since, oh, I don't know... version 1? So help to fix it instead of ranting here and on the issue, volunteers won't act quicker because you rant about their work. Joel has took the time to explain you on the issue how it works. In case you were wondering, it is the new 'Inline Fields' functionality, that when introduced, broke the ability to paste into them, and the bug is still there today, in 4.3.2. /rant Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... On 10/1/2014 7:13 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi Tanstaalf, In the thread LibreOffice Still you made a very important point, however it has absolutely nothing to do with the main point of the discussion on how to name versions and I just by chance noted it. You then might have a chance of having it dealt with. Werner P.S. Just a LO user who sometimes reads this list but just about every time get frustrated with it due to the misuse of threads! On 10/1/2014 12:27, Tanstaafl wrote: rant Charles, fyi, in our office, we are stuck on 4.1.6 because of a major regression introduced in 4.2 that is still there today. When our first user reported this after I started updating everyone (at about 4.2.4), so I had to revert them all (I'd gotten maybe 20 workstations updated that weekend). I kept promising my boss that 'they will have to fix this, it is a regression and they treat these seriously' - but here we are, 8 months later, and we still cannot upgrade. Because everyone found about about this, a few very vocal users in our office took this opportunity to start lobbying (again) for replacing Libreoffice with Microsoft Office, and it looks like they are going to win this time. I know it is only 70 seats, and you probably don't really care, but I do. The fact is, I cannot even recommend Libreoffice on new clients in good conscience, if the response to a very serious regression bug report is along the lines of 'well, you can just fix it yourself, it is free open source after all'. *Anytime* a long standing feature is totally ripped out and replaced with something else that causes a major regression, it should be an absolute top priority to fix it in the very next release. In fact, I would say that it should be a part of the agreement that any contributor signs, that if they are the one responsible for a regression like this, they are *required* to fix it asap. So, for us, 4.2 and 4.3 are *both* unstable - meaning, we *cannot use them*, because they lack a very basic capability that we have relied on since, oh, I don't know... version 1? In case you were wondering, it is the new 'Inline Fields' functionality, that when introduced, broke the ability to paste into them, and the bug is still there today, in 4.3.2. /rant -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi Tom, I don't want to go on discussion here the naming of releases. Tanstaalf comment about the problem of a LO deals with a regression made me worried, so that is what I hoped to get an exchange in this thread. Werner On 10/1/2014 13:46, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Right! Amazing! So that is a typical view of a dev! A broken bit of functionality has absolutely nothing to do with whether LibreOffice is stable or not! At least, not according to a dev's way of thinking. So, LO should just drop 'stable' from all there releases! No I am not serious, but that is what you are saying in your sentence! Software will always have regressions, at least until someone figures out a testing framework which is perfect to test a UI based software - or has this been invented and I just don't know about it. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, On 10/1/2014 14:04, Tanstaafl wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... That is not Sophie's view of it, see her response in the other thread. A regression can be discussed here, but it would definitely also need a issue/tracker/bug ticket. Can you point us to the issue you filed for it, then we could use it as a base for the discussion if LO deals with regressions correctly or not. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 8:21 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi, On 10/1/2014 14:04, Tanstaafl wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... That is not Sophie's view of it, see her response in the other thread. A regression can be discussed here, but it would definitely also need a issue/tracker/bug ticket. Can you point us to the issue you filed for it, then we could use it as a base for the discussion if LO deals with regressions correctly or not. I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Not to mention this one: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65205 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 14:47, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/1/2014 8:21 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi, On 10/1/2014 14:04, Tanstaafl wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... That is not Sophie's view of it, see her response in the other thread. A regression can be discussed here, but it would definitely also need a issue/tracker/bug ticket. Can you point us to the issue you filed for it, then we could use it as a base for the discussion if LO deals with regressions correctly or not. I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Have you tested the daily build which included the patch committed on 2014-8-17? Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi Tom, Thanks for the suggestions, but I assure you, I have had many, many conversations with him about this over these past 15 years I've been managing his systems. On 10/1/2014 9:03 AM, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I think probably the best way to handle it is to arrange a meeting with your boss. Make sure it's a proper meeting rather than just trying to catch him/her on the fly while he/she is busy dealing with other stuff. Apologise profusely for having tried to save the company x amount of money! That you did so by trying to avoid the needed upgrade to MS Office 2013/365. Explain that you have put tons of your own time into saving the company money in this way. Let him/her know that the office workers are now demanding that the company buy in MS Office 2013/365 at a cost of x. Let him/her know that MS products typically run into many problems when they are first released but that most of those have probably been fixed by now. Let him/her know that by delaying the cost you have ensured that the company should run into far fewer problems with their purchase than they would have done if they had just spent the money back when MS Office 2013/365 was initially released. Maybe point out that there still will be problems because each version of MS Office has problems reading some files from any previous versions and that will continue to be a problem as each new version of MS Office needs to be bought. Maybe follow-up by saying that converting documents to LibreOffice only suffers that problem the one time and that future versions of LibreOffice are built to ensure that old files can be read Maybe say that the whole exercise to save the company x amount seems to have created tensions with colleagues and been disheartening and taken up a lot of your own time and that for those reasons you would rather not be involved with installing MS Office 2013/365. Basically wash your hands of it and point out that your motives were good but that it was tooo much of an uphill fight that you are not happy to continue with. It would help to know the licensing cost, x. For 2013 i've heard around $500/machine for the version with Access in it or for 365 it's probably a monthly figure. Companies can often get a discount and get a volume license. DON'T offer to share your research on this! Just make it sound like you have heard a rumour that it costs roughly x. Picking the right version of MS Office is notoriously difficult and likely to run into problems. Whichever version you (or anyone else) choose is likely to be the wrong one and incurr extra, hidden costs = if it's you that did the choosing or recommending then they might think it was you deliberately sabotaging the project so make sure it's someone else that is highly visibly to blame. Similarly with installing it. it's likely to be a lot more of a struggle than they probably realise and is likely to over-run both in time taken and costs. So, again make sure you are visibly distanced from it. Try not to help in any way to avoid getting the blame when they make mistakes! If they need information then deliver it to your boss for your boss to hand on to whoever is doing the installs. Hopefully they'll need to get some external consultants in to do it, and as is typical in the Window world those consultants will be tooo arrogant to ask for any information or help. Maybe at the end of the exercise arrange another meeting with your boss to talk about talking back routine administration of the MS Office systems and just express amazement at just how high the costs were, that you had been trying to save the company from! It might be worth asking a lawyer's advice about refusing to do certain parts of what might be in your employment contract = there might be justifiable excuses. Perhaps time to take a holiday? Sorry this is not particularly useful! I know you have worked hard at this and now find yourself in an untenable situation so i hope you are able to work out a way of freeeing yourself and maybe gain a lot of respect from your boss and maybe from the other workers too. Regards from Tom :) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi :) In your meeting with the boss it might well be worth pointing out that a lot of other companies had to buy MS Office 2010 just a year or so ago and that most of those are now finding that they already have to buy 2013 or 365. That by delaying a purchase of MS Office for so many years or even just months you have positioned the company to be ahead of the competition AND saved it x (and delayed on spending x again). Regard from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 14:03, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I think probably the best way to handle it is to arrange a meeting with your boss. Make sure it's a proper meeting rather than just trying to catch him/her on the fly while he/she is busy dealing with other stuff. Apologise profusely for having tried to save the company x amount of money! That you did so by trying to avoid the needed upgrade to MS Office 2013/365. Explain that you have put tons of your own time into saving the company money in this way. Let him/her know that the office workers are now demanding that the company buy in MS Office 2013/365 at a cost of x. Let him/her know that MS products typically run into many problems when they are first released but that most of those have probably been fixed by now. Let him/her know that by delaying the cost you have ensured that the company should run into far fewer problems with their purchase than they would have done if they had just spent the money back when MS Office 2013/365 was initially released. Maybe point out that there still will be problems because each version of MS Office has problems reading some files from any previous versions and that will continue to be a problem as each new version of MS Office needs to be bought. Maybe follow-up by saying that converting documents to LibreOffice only suffers that problem the one time and that future versions of LibreOffice are built to ensure that old files can be read Maybe say that the whole exercise to save the company x amount seems to have created tensions with colleagues and been disheartening and taken up a lot of your own time and that for those reasons you would rather not be involved with installing MS Office 2013/365. Basically wash your hands of it and point out that your motives were good but that it was tooo much of an uphill fight that you are not happy to continue with. It would help to know the licensing cost, x. For 2013 i've heard around $500/machine for the version with Access in it or for 365 it's probably a monthly figure. Companies can often get a discount and get a volume license. DON'T offer to share your research on this! Just make it sound like you have heard a rumour that it costs roughly x. Picking the right version of MS Office is notoriously difficult and likely to run into problems. Whichever version you (or anyone else) choose is likely to be the wrong one and incurr extra, hidden costs = if it's you that did the choosing or recommending then they might think it was you deliberately sabotaging the project so make sure it's someone else that is highly visibly to blame. Similarly with installing it. it's likely to be a lot more of a struggle than they probably realise and is likely to over-run both in time taken and costs. So, again make sure you are visibly distanced from it. Try not to help in any way to avoid getting the blame when they make mistakes! If they need information then deliver it to your boss for your boss to hand on to whoever is doing the installs. Hopefully they'll need to get some external consultants in to do it, and as is typical in the Window world those consultants will be tooo arrogant to ask for any information or help. Maybe at the end of the exercise arrange another meeting with your boss to talk about talking back routine administration of the MS Office systems and just express amazement at just how high the costs were, that you had been trying to save the company from! It might be worth asking a lawyer's advice about refusing to do certain parts of what might be in your employment contract = there might be justifiable excuses. Perhaps time to take a holiday? Sorry this is not particularly useful! I know you have worked hard at this and now find yourself in an untenable situation so i hope you are able to work out a way of freeeing yourself and maybe gain a lot of respect from your boss and maybe from the other workers too. Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 13:04, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... On 10/1/2014 7:13 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi Tanstaalf, In the thread LibreOffice Still you made a very important point, however it has absolutely nothing to do with the main point of the discussion on how to name versions and I just by chance
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) Again the main point that Taanstafl was making is ignored. He was not saying you must fix my bug. That has already been covered in previous threads and previous bug-reports. All he was saying was there was at least 1 example of a bug that was introduced in Fresh (well introduced in Still back when that was Fresh). Common sense, or experience with writing code suggests that it's inevitably going to be the case. You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Trying to assert that eggs haven't been broken seems ridiculous. Why not just admit it! Point out the omelette, not the broken eggs!! Especially don't try to claim the eggs haven't been broken! Just point out that we have more eggs in the fridge and now we have an omelette too. Maybe we should rename Still to Eggs and change Fresh to Omelette. Both have advantages. trying to say that Omelette is really unbroken eggs seems daft to me. Anyone else lost yet? Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 14:16, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @Charles, *, Tanstaafl wrote On 10/1/2014 8:21 AM, Werner lt; wernerfbd@ gt; wrote: Hi, On 10/1/2014 14:04, Tanstaafl wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... That is not Sophie's view of it, see her response in the other thread. A regression can be discussed here, but it would definitely also need a issue/tracker/bug ticket. Can you point us to the issue you filed for it, then we could use it as a base for the discussion if LO deals with regressions correctly or not. I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Yes, and a patch was already been developed (wef 2014-08-17) and posted to current 4.4.0alpha0+ builds of master. Plenty of time to have been verified and then back-ported to 4.3 or even the final 4.2 build. But neither has been done, which is a responsibility for affected users to advocate for. Especially corporate and business users that want the goodies, but then choose not to participate in the QA process. And those users are somehow surprised when features don't work as expected, or regressions are introduced. The user community has responsibility in moving an open source project like LibreOffice forward by being engaged during all development cycles. Test and test often, and provide feedback in the correct channel--the project Bugzilla and secondly these mail-list forums. Regards the Still, and Fresh, and Pre-release, and master development builds--not that complicated and necessary in a timed release development project that LibreOffice adopted when formed. You'll note that the project moves otherwise functional builds to legacy--End of Life--status shortly after final project build. The current Still branch 4.2 will move to that category next month! The nuance folks miss is that development effort and willingness/capability to correct issues is primarily out on the master branch. Regressions ARE very important, but are best corrected where/when they are being introduced--to do that requires engagement. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124405.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 15:02, Tanstaafl wrote: Not to mention this one: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65205 I would not categorize that as a regression for LO, it existed in OO assuming the comments are correct. I also find the exchange not efficient - why can't reporters and persons commenting stick to facts, keep personal attacks out of it. The OP (Charles) thinks it is easy to fix but comment 13 on the OO ticket seems not to come to that conclusion. He has 50 seats of LO, has he maybe considered contacting a LO support company and tried to get a quote on how much it would cost to fix this 'showstopper' (maybe it would be less then a 50 seat license for this other product). Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
@Charles, *, Tanstaafl wrote Not to mention this one: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65205 fdo#65205 - Print Component fails to recognize 'Tabloid' as 11x17, uses Letter instead Yes, please don't mention that one as it is NOT a regression. It has never been correct, i.e. inherited from OOo, but that doesn't mean it is not important. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124418.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 15:36, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Again the main point that Taanstafl was making is ignored. I don't think it was ignored (see the issue), it was just made in the wrong thread. The rest doesn't advance us, does it? Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Tom Davies wrote on 01-10-14 15:36: All he was saying was there was at least 1 example of a bug that was introduced in Fresh How many more would you like to know :) It's always been that new versions come with new bugs. That's the big advantage (?) of open source: it keeps you sharp/awake, since you know the bugs you are used to, may disappear and new - but which - come in their place :) Now the situation with LibreOffice is that there is only one way ahead out of the old mess: cleaning up, modernising and the whole shit more. Thus what the devs are working on. And yes, that brings more new bugs, for removing old bugs and working our way to the future. It encourages me that so many people file bugs. Many of them duplicates (i.e. already known in BugZilla), many basically user problems (people would have been better of asking here first) and also many that I would consider as tiny bugs, little UI improvements and so forth. Oh yes: and the nasty ones :\ I'm also glad to see there's many people helping in QA with clarifying the bugs etc usw. Great. And we can really handle more of those people ;) Now of course it's nasty that Taanstafls bug isn't yet fixed. Maybe peoples comments become a bit unfriendly when having to explain again and again how solving issues works. And how not. And of course Taanstafl would love to see the bug fixed and gets annoyed too. Both are of little help, I expect. There are bugs that annoy me too. And some I could even help by finding that extra hour (or two) extra to do some little testing, scripting, digging.. Only that extra extra... Being friendly, helping wherever you can, and asking attention in a positive way for an issue (clear test case or bibisecting works better then complaining).. Ah well. Sorry I can't help any further here at the moment. Maybe we should rename Still to Eggs and change Fresh to Omelette. Both have advantages. trying to say that Omelette is really unbroken eggs seems daft to me. You know I am in favour of keeping all our great ideas for new names with us for the next period and focus on better explanation (website). But I do like this one :) Thanks, Cor -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating Envelope Forms
Hi :) You might find the Published Guides more useful than the Help; https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Even though you probably need to get into Templates for this sort of thing you'll probably find that it's more important to get to grips with Styles for LibreOffice in a general way. You can use LibreOffice without having the slightest clue about styles but unlike with Word (where they seem to be an encumbrance) they are hugely useful in LibreOffice. Errr, you might find that someone has already done some templates for what you need; http://templates.libreoffice.org/ or on the OpenOffice templates site but it might be easier to just try to re-do them yourself to a) learn about how to do templates and b) to save time from distractions while searching around On the other hand it can't hurt to have a quick look! ;) Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 06:51, John R. Sowden jsow...@americansentry.net wrote: I am starting the long trek from WordStar/DOS to Libre Office/Ubuntu. I have many forms to create, about 6 are envelopes. Since our Dell Laser printer does not like to print envelopes en masse, I'm giving LO a go. Problem is in 'help', I am directed to 'insert envelope'. By insert, I assume that it is creating an envelope for a document. That is not my intent. The current project is a Billing Return Envelope. This is a 6 3/4 envelope, with three lines in the return address area, and our name company in Freesans 14/Bold, and the address in Freesans/12 type. Of course I need to print in the landscape mode, as that is how the printer will print via its feed tray. (Samsung Laser/Fax/Printer) How do I set up this document. Using the envelope method does not seem to work. I have all the dimensions. What I did with Wordstar is to create the image on an 8x11 page, then feed the envelope into the center with the feed tray. That has been working fine for about 25 years. tia, John -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 16:01, Cor Nouws wrote: ... Now of course it's nasty that Taanstafls bug isn't yet fixed. According to the issue there is a patch and it has been committed some time ago and should be in daily builds. BUT has the patch fixed the problem - who knows! Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating Envelope Forms
Thanks, I'll chase these down. John On 10/01/2014 07:04 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) You might find the Published Guides more useful than the Help; https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Even though you probably need to get into Templates for this sort of thing you'll probably find that it's more important to get to grips with Styles for LibreOffice in a general way. You can use LibreOffice without having the slightest clue about styles but unlike with Word (where they seem to be an encumbrance) they are hugely useful in LibreOffice. Errr, you might find that someone has already done some templates for what you need; http://templates.libreoffice.org/ or on the OpenOffice templates site but it might be easier to just try to re-do them yourself to a) learn about how to do templates and b) to save time from distractions while searching around On the other hand it can't hurt to have a quick look! ;) Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 06:51, John R. Sowden jsow...@americansentry.net wrote: I am starting the long trek from WordStar/DOS to Libre Office/Ubuntu. I have many forms to create, about 6 are envelopes. Since our Dell Laser printer does not like to print envelopes en masse, I'm giving LO a go. Problem is in 'help', I am directed to 'insert envelope'. By insert, I assume that it is creating an envelope for a document. That is not my intent. The current project is a Billing Return Envelope. This is a 6 3/4 envelope, with three lines in the return address area, and our name company in Freesans 14/Bold, and the address in Freesans/12 type. Of course I need to print in the landscape mode, as that is how the printer will print via its feed tray. (Samsung Laser/Fax/Printer) How do I set up this document. Using the envelope method does not seem to work. I have all the dimensions. What I did with Wordstar is to create the image on an 8x11 page, then feed the envelope into the center with the feed tray. That has been working fine for about 25 years. tia, John -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Tom Davies wrote on 01-10-14 16:33: This is exactly why most normal users would call the Fresh branch unstable. Which again is ill-informed, because there is no principle difference between Still and Fresh. But thanks, no need to repeat all this :) -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 9:25 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 14:47, Tanstaafl wrote: I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Have you tested the daily build which included the patch committed on 2014-8-17? Irrelevant. I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. The bug was filed in March. It took 5 MONTHS to get the patch implemented, and as has been pointed out, it is still not backported. To the one who suggested that it is on us users to 'prod the devs to do the back-porting'... seriously? Really? PLONK -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 9:36 AM, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we should rename Still to Eggs and change Fresh to Omelette. Both have advantages. trying to say that Omelette is really unbroken eggs seems daft to me. I'm a steak guy, so I prefer: 'Still' Sirloin 'Fresh' Tenderloin (or chopped, depending on whether or not you use some critical feature that is currently broken)... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 17:03, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/1/2014 9:25 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 14:47, Tanstaafl wrote: I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Have you tested the daily build which included the patch committed on 2014-8-17? Irrelevant. ??? What you are responsible for 60+ PC's and you are not willing to test on a test PC a potential fix to a problem which is serious to you? Sorry I don't understand you. I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. The bug was filed in March. It took 5 MONTHS to get the patch implemented, and as has been pointed out, it is still not backported. Agreed, would be nicer if it took less time - but this is software and that problem of time has nothing to do with OpenSource, the same problem exists with Commercial software. To the one who suggested that it is on us users to 'prod the devs to do the back-porting'... seriously? Really? PLONK I guess that is your reaction to someone not agreeing with you, or did I use incorrect language I wasn't aware off as English is not my first language. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] insert empty (check) box: bound to a key
At 12:38 01/10/2014 +0200, Uwe Brauer wrote: I insert a check box, ... What - just the shape of a box? And into a text document? ... by using insert-symbol and then I select the symbol in question. Er, is that what I see as Insert | Special Character...? Can I bind this to a key, say shift+insert inserts already the check box. Not that I know of. There are a few alternative tricks: o Copy your first check box and paste the new one where you want it. o Type some otherwise unused character combination where you need the boxes and use Find Replace to convert these to boxes when you have finished your main text entry in the document. o (Best) + Enter one box. + Select it. + Go to Tools | AutoCorrect Options... | Replace. Notice that your box already appears in the With: field. + Enter a suitable code - perhaps ## or cb ? - in the Replace: field. + Click New and OK. + Now just type the code in place of the box. Or do you mean a proper check box in an XML Form Document? If so: o Go to Tools | Customise... | Keyboard. o Under Category, select Controls. o Under Function, select Check Box. o Under Shortcut keys, select a suitable unused key combination. o Click Modify and OK. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] insert empty (check) box: bound to a key
At 12:38 01/10/2014 +0200, Uwe Brauer wrote: I insert a check box, ... Can I bind this to a key, ... Oh, here's another: o Enter one box. o Select it. o Go to Edit | AutoText... . o Probably select My AutoText. o Type a name for your entry. o Modify the shortcut if preferred. o Under AutoText select New. o Click Close. To use this, type the shortcut and press F3. I trust this also helps. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Attempt merging spreadsheet data between two files leads to blank screen in libre office? Help please?
Spreadsheet being used as a database. Simply of name, address, email address, notes. etc 7 different vertical to large large large number of horizontal data. However this is my test run and only used a smaller part of the spreadsheet. maybe 10 horizontal rows? I have attempted numerous times with different files of a large collection to test merging the data into 1 large file. Read as much information as can find but still none the wiser as to why the screen of libreoffice is just blank and not seeming to merge anything! Ive tried compare approach as well as merge but that just mixes up the data and is incorrect. At a loss as to whether this is possible or If am going to have to input massive amount of data manually. Any thoughts, help tips appreciated! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Attempt-merging-spreadsheet-data-between-two-files-leads-to-blank-screen-in-libre-office-Help-please-tp4124447.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Attempt merging spreadsheet data between two files leads to blank screen in libre office? Help please?
At 09:20 01/10/2014 -0700, Nobody Noname wrote: Spreadsheet being used as a database. Simply of name, ... How does it cope with people like you - who have no plausible name? 7 different vertical to large large large number of horizontal data. Er, is that seven columns and many rows? I have attempted numerous times with different files of a large collection to test merging the data into 1 large file. Read as much information as can find but still none the wiser as to why the screen of libreoffice is just blank and not seeming to merge anything! So you are going to keep everyone in the dark about exactly what you've tried? I've tried compare approach as well as merge but that just mixes up the data and is incorrect. At a loss as to whether this is possible or If am going to have to input massive amount of data manually. No, of course not. o Open both spreadsheets. o Select the required material in one spreadsheet. o Copy it and paste it into the other. Or: o Open one spreadsheet. o Go to Insert | Sheet from File... . o Select the required sheet and where to insert it. o If required, copy material from the new sheet to existing sheets. The merge and compare facilities are intended to deal with differently modified versions of the same file, which is not what you have here. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, /me read this thread to this point and I have to say as a developer (not in the LibO code base): As a non developer (which Charles is) you easily underestimate the effort needed. I am advertising for Collabora now (there are others as well) https://libreoffice-from-collabora.com/product/ and https://libreoffice-from-collabora.com/l3-support/ L3 Support means Fixing bugs on the code 9 bugs for 30k €. That is a fair price... Continuing reading the thread now... PS: If a volunteer does not tackle your pet bug, you should get someone to fix it (search for libreoffice L3 support for other service provider... Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 01.10.2014 um 15:47 schrieb Werner werner...@gmx.ch: On 10/1/2014 15:02, Tanstaafl wrote: Not to mention this one: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65205 I would not categorize that as a regression for LO, it existed in OO assuming the comments are correct. I also find the exchange not efficient - why can't reporters and persons commenting stick to facts, keep personal attacks out of it. The OP (Charles) thinks it is easy to fix but comment 13 on the OO ticket seems not to come to that conclusion. He has 50 seats of LO, has he maybe considered contacting a LO support company and tried to get a quote on how much it would cost to fix this 'showstopper' (maybe it would be less then a 50 seat license for this other product). Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) Yes, we should re-educate the entire world before trying to get LibreOffice out there! It'd be better than trying to doing something that makes immediate sense to everyone intuitively! Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 16:02, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Tom Davies wrote on 01-10-14 16:33: This is exactly why most normal users would call the Fresh branch unstable. Which again is ill-informed, because there is no principle difference between Still and Fresh. But thanks, no need to repeat all this :) -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, You can find daily builds here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 01.10.2014 um 16:12 schrieb Werner werner...@gmx.ch: On 10/1/2014 16:01, Cor Nouws wrote: ... Now of course it's nasty that Taanstafls bug isn't yet fixed. According to the issue there is a patch and it has been committed some time ago and should be in daily builds. BUT has the patch fixed the problem - who knows! Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Creating Envelope Forms
Hi :) yw :) I hope something useful is in there. I'm fairly sure it is but haven't checked for certain. There is also an Faq in the wiki but it's the guides that are most likely to help; https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 15:38, John R. Sowden jsow...@americansentry.net wrote: Thanks, I'll chase these down. John On 10/01/2014 07:04 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) You might find the Published Guides more useful than the Help; https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Even though you probably need to get into Templates for this sort of thing you'll probably find that it's more important to get to grips with Styles for LibreOffice in a general way. You can use LibreOffice without having the slightest clue about styles but unlike with Word (where they seem to be an encumbrance) they are hugely useful in LibreOffice. Errr, you might find that someone has already done some templates for what you need; http://templates.libreoffice.org/ or on the OpenOffice templates site but it might be easier to just try to re-do them yourself to a) learn about how to do templates and b) to save time from distractions while searching around On the other hand it can't hurt to have a quick look! ;) Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 06:51, John R. Sowden jsow...@americansentry.net wrote: I am starting the long trek from WordStar/DOS to Libre Office/Ubuntu. I have many forms to create, about 6 are envelopes. Since our Dell Laser printer does not like to print envelopes en masse, I'm giving LO a go. Problem is in 'help', I am directed to 'insert envelope'. By insert, I assume that it is creating an envelope for a document. That is not my intent. The current project is a Billing Return Envelope. This is a 6 3/4 envelope, with three lines in the return address area, and our name company in Freesans 14/Bold, and the address in Freesans/12 type. Of course I need to print in the landscape mode, as that is how the printer will print via its feed tray. (Samsung Laser/Fax/Printer) How do I set up this document. Using the envelope method does not seem to work. I have all the dimensions. What I did with Wordstar is to create the image on an 8x11 page, then feed the envelope into the center with the feed tray. That has been working fine for about 25 years. tia, John -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Attempt merging spreadsheet data between two files leads to blank screen in libre office? Help please?
Thank you for the ideas and your comment! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Attempt-merging-spreadsheet-data-between-two-files-leads-to-blank-screen-in-libre-office-Help-please-tp4124447p4124454.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 1, 2014 8:03:05 AM PDT, Tanstaafl wrote: Irrelevant. I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. What you do is once a week install and test a daily build, verifying that issues that affect your organization have been fixed, or if not, what did not work correctly. The ideal is for you to construct a system to automtically download, install, run, and test the daily builds everyday, verifying what is fixed, determining what is still broken, and finding out what is newly broken. jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 1, 2014 9:54:43 AM PDT, Florian Reisinger wrote: L3 Support means Fixing bugs on the code Do those bug fixes get rolled back into LibreOffice? [ Assuming all the caveats about code acceptance by LibO are met. ] jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Attempt merging spreadsheet data between two files leads to blank screen in libre office? Help please?
Hi :) Maybe something worth getting into databases to do? Is there a memory issue? What size are the files? It might be good to go to Tools - Options - Memory and just radically increase most of those settings. I kinda dropped the number of undo steps to try to save a little space but on modern machines the amount of Ram tends to be wy more than is anticipated in the default settings. Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 17:46, Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com wrote: At 09:20 01/10/2014 -0700, Nobody Noname wrote: Spreadsheet being used as a database. Simply of name, ... How does it cope with people like you - who have no plausible name? 7 different vertical to large large large number of horizontal data. Er, is that seven columns and many rows? I have attempted numerous times with different files of a large collection to test merging the data into 1 large file. Read as much information as can find but still none the wiser as to why the screen of libreoffice is just blank and not seeming to merge anything! So you are going to keep everyone in the dark about exactly what you've tried? I've tried compare approach as well as merge but that just mixes up the data and is incorrect. At a loss as to whether this is possible or If am going to have to input massive amount of data manually. No, of course not. o Open both spreadsheets. o Select the required material in one spreadsheet. o Copy it and paste it into the other. Or: o Open one spreadsheet. o Go to Insert | Sheet from File... . o Select the required sheet and where to insert it. o If required, copy material from the new sheet to existing sheets. The merge and compare facilities are intended to deal with differently modified versions of the same file, which is not what you have here. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] How to handle regressions
Hi :) I think probably the best way to handle it is to arrange a meeting with your boss. Make sure it's a proper meeting rather than just trying to catch him/her on the fly while he/she is busy dealing with other stuff. Apologise profusely for having tried to save the company x amount of money! That you did so by trying to avoid the needed upgrade to MS Office 2013/365. Explain that you have put tons of your own time into saving the company money in this way. Let him/her know that the office workers are now demanding that the company buy in MS Office 2013/365 at a cost of x. Let him/her know that MS products typically run into many problems when they are first released but that most of those have probably been fixed by now. Let him/her know that by delaying the cost you have ensured that the company should run into far fewer problems with their purchase than they would have done if they had just spent the money back when MS Office 2013/365 was initially released. Maybe point out that there still will be problems because each version of MS Office has problems reading some files from any previous versions and that will continue to be a problem as each new version of MS Office needs to be bought. Maybe follow-up by saying that converting documents to LibreOffice only suffers that problem the one time and that future versions of LibreOffice are built to ensure that old files can be read Maybe say that the whole exercise to save the company x amount seems to have created tensions with colleagues and been disheartening and taken up a lot of your own time and that for those reasons you would rather not be involved with installing MS Office 2013/365. Basically wash your hands of it and point out that your motives were good but that it was tooo much of an uphill fight that you are not happy to continue with. It would help to know the licensing cost, x. For 2013 i've heard around $500/machine for the version with Access in it or for 365 it's probably a monthly figure. Companies can often get a discount and get a volume license. DON'T offer to share your research on this! Just make it sound like you have heard a rumour that it costs roughly x. Picking the right version of MS Office is notoriously difficult and likely to run into problems. Whichever version you (or anyone else) choose is likely to be the wrong one and incurr extra, hidden costs = if it's you that did the choosing or recommending then they might think it was you deliberately sabotaging the project so make sure it's someone else that is highly visibly to blame. Similarly with installing it. it's likely to be a lot more of a struggle than they probably realise and is likely to over-run both in time taken and costs. So, again make sure you are visibly distanced from it. Try not to help in any way to avoid getting the blame when they make mistakes! If they need information then deliver it to your boss for your boss to hand on to whoever is doing the installs. Hopefully they'll need to get some external consultants in to do it, and as is typical in the Window world those consultants will be tooo arrogant to ask for any information or help. Maybe at the end of the exercise arrange another meeting with your boss to talk about talking back routine administration of the MS Office systems and just express amazement at just how high the costs were, that you had been trying to save the company from! It might be worth asking a lawyer's advice about refusing to do certain parts of what might be in your employment contract = there might be justifiable excuses. Perhaps time to take a holiday? Sorry this is not particularly useful! I know you have worked hard at this and now find yourself in an untenable situation so i hope you are able to work out a way of freeeing yourself and maybe gain a lot of respect from your boss and maybe from the other workers too. Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 13:04, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi Werner, This regression has already been discussed here, with essentially the same result (fix it yourself, pay someone else to fix it, or shut up about it)... On 10/1/2014 7:13 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi Tanstaalf, In the thread LibreOffice Still you made a very important point, however it has absolutely nothing to do with the main point of the discussion on how to name versions and I just by chance noted it. You then might have a chance of having it dealt with. Werner P.S. Just a LO user who sometimes reads this list but just about every time get frustrated with it due to the misuse of threads! On 10/1/2014 12:27, Tanstaafl wrote: rant Charles, fyi, in our office, we are stuck on 4.1.6 because of a major regression introduced in 4.2 that is still there today. When our first user reported this after I started updating everyone (at about 4.2.4), so I had to revert them all (I'd gotten maybe 20 workstations updated that
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Tom Davies wrote on 01-10-14 18:02: Yes, we should re-educate the entire world before trying to get LibreOffice out there! It'd be better than trying to doing something that makes immediate sense to everyone intuitively! We need to explain how it works for LibreOffice. Did already someone suggest that? Did someone already spent some of the precious time for that? It would be a trap to offer people something that they 'intuitively' think to understand, which is wrong in our special situation. Sorry I can't make it any easier :) Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) This is exactly why most normal users would call the Fresh branch unstable. If Fresh is 'sold' (ie described in marketing (such as on the website's download page)) as being the only one available or 'sold' as anything other than what it is then those users will say that it's the whole of LibreOffice that is unstable. It's not fair but that is the way it is. [shrugs] Of course most people wont even consider touching an MS product until after the Service Pack 1 is released. It's so well known that there are likely to be significant problems before that. Sometimes MS does tricks to try to get a minor update released quite quickly and call that Sp1 or they say Sp1 is included in the original release but that usually seems to prove wrong. So some places wont touch an MS product until after Sp2 now. Many individuals like to risk it and become early adopters. Many Systems Administrators and people who write articles for magazines or do YouTube videos like to get extremely early releases of things so that they can be ahead of the game and be prepared. Maybe we could say that x.x.2 is our Sp1 and x.x.4 is Sp2. It is not quite the same thing and the models are different but it would give people something more familiar that they could understand more easily Regards from Tom :) On 1 October 2014 15:01, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: snip / It's always been that new versions come with new bugs. snip / -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, From Collabora and other serious providers IMHO YES, unless the customer demands otherwise (which would be not very wise, as it costs much much more), Does that answer your question? Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 01.10.2014 um 19:47 schrieb jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com: On October 1, 2014 9:54:43 AM PDT, Florian Reisinger wrote: L3 Support means Fixing bugs on the code Do those bug fixes get rolled back into LibreOffice? [ Assuming all the caveats about code acceptance by LibO are met. ] jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Base Forms - and subforms
Hi :) And a little good news ... Someone gives hints on how they converted an Access database to Base and thus been able to completely free themselves from Windows. Peter Goggin is one of the people working on the Base Handbook that is making it's way to https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) On 29 September 2014 18:09, Peter Goggin *hidden* wrote: On 30/09/14 01:11, Mark Stanton wrote: Have you checked the contacts table directly? I wouldn't mind betting that you *have* been able to add contacts, but they don't have the people primary key. I think you'll need to do some extra work manually (ie programming, not literally by hand) to get that to work. This is based on a distant memory though, so I may be wrong. Regards Mark The data in the two tables, people and contacts are the same as in my Access base. In the Access forms I can add contacts in the contact subform. In the Base forms when I change the person the contacts subform changes to match the person. When I checked the table definitions in Base I found that the primary key could not be made auto if there was data in the table. I deleted all of the data in the contacts table, changed the primary key definition and re-imported data. Now my forms work correctly. One other thing, I found that if the spreadsheet format for date was not -MM-DD the import failed. I now have a fully functional database which does all that I require and so can now drop virtualbox, windows XP and OfficeXP from this machine. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Impress: Example presentations showing off our feature set?
Hi :) Robinson Tryon has done tons of work for LibreOffice and is just asking for a couple of slides to help his presentation look better. Does anyone have or know of anything that might help him? Please contact him directly if you have as i'm not sure if he is on this mailing list Thanks and regards from Tom :) On 30 September 2014 23:36, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: Hiya, I'm giving a talk on Thursday, and just got an invitation to *also* give a mini-presentation showing off some of the neat features we have available in Impress. Does anyone have a presentation or two that shows off some of our advanced features? Or perhaps has a couple of cool slides or nifty techniques that you used when making your last talk? Best, --R -- Robinson Tryon QA Engineer - The Document Foundation LibreOffice Community Outreach Herald qu...@libreoffice.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 12:54 PM, Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: 9 bugs for 30k €. That is a fair price... Continuing reading the thread now... PS: If a volunteer does not tackle your pet bug, you should get someone to fix it (search for libreoffice L3 support for other service provider... Let's see... Pay you extortion in the amount of $4,200 (assuming I can get just one bug fixed for 1/9th the quoted price, which I suspect is unlikely) to fix a *regression* caused by someone arbitrarily deciding to *replace* (as opposed to providing the new feature, but allow users to fall back to the old functionality) a feature that has been working fine for 10? years with a 'new improved' version (not knocking the feature itself, just that it doesn't work properly in that it lacks a very fundamental and necessary capability), or... Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). Let me think about it for a while - and please feel free to hold your breathe while I do... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 1, 2014 10:41:07 AM PDT, Tom Davies wrote: Blimey! Normal users need to do coding work? The OP is complaining about a regression caused bug. What I was describing was how to catch such critters _before_ they bevome a problem, and vetify the bug fixes do fix the bug in question. Also with most programs it's possible for most people to just use the software without having to get so involved. What I describe is what any sysadmin worth their salt wold do, with _all_ of the FLOSS an, where an when available, non-FLOSS, that is deployed throughout the organization they work for. jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 1, 2014 11:04:46 AM PDT, Florian Reisinger wrote: which would be not very wise, That sounds a lot like the knight claiming to only have suffered from a flesh wound. Does that answer your question? Yes, dankie. jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
I understand your problem. Accidentally, both links were to the same 32 bit connector because I became confused by the naming Nabble used for the two files. (I uploaded teh same file twice.) Here is the 32 bit connector for others if they want to test it: nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt Here is the 64 bit connector (which is the one you really needed): nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a And a very special thanks to you for what you have done. Dan On 10/01/2014 08:41 PM, Alan B wrote: fyi - I tried to install the 64-bit connector in LO 4.2.6.3 on 64-bit Ubuntu 14.04 and install failed. Message was The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com mailto:elderdanle...@gmail.com wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Alan Boba CISSP, CCENT, ITIL v3 Foundations 2011 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, You are a big company and you would buy MS Office for 100$ per year each. (500 seat it was? - 50 000$ per year. And with LibO you can get a free product. If this is not enough you can 1) Do it yourself 2) Let it fix @MS you cannot do that easily (1) and I do not know if MS fixes a bug for a 60 seat company With LibreOffice you can choose which company should fix the bug, which keeps prices fair and low! I am sorry if the following sounds a bit sharp: do not rant. That won't help! If you want to have this bug fixes, pay for the fix. (Or test if works on master I guess this bug should be fixed relatively quick. Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 01.10.2014 um 22:21 schrieb Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org: On 10/1/2014 12:54 PM, Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: 9 bugs for 30k €. That is a fair price... Continuing reading the thread now... PS: If a volunteer does not tackle your pet bug, you should get someone to fix it (search for libreoffice L3 support for other service provider... Let's see... Pay you extortion in the amount of $4,200 (assuming I can get just one bug fixed for 1/9th the quoted price, which I suspect is unlikely) to fix a *regression* caused by someone arbitrarily deciding to *replace* (as opposed to providing the new feature, but allow users to fall back to the old functionality) a feature that has been working fine for 10? years with a 'new improved' version (not knocking the feature itself, just that it doesn't work properly in that it lacks a very fundamental and necessary capability), or... Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). Let me think about it for a while - and please feel free to hold your breathe while I do... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
