[USMA:9378] FW: Re: Statute miles vs. nautical
The temperature is broadcast to pilots in the USA in Celsius. To announce the temp in ifp it is necessary to convert from Celsius. Baron Carter -Original Message- From: Jim Gottlieb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 23 November, 2000 12:43 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9314] Re: Statute miles vs. nautical On 2000-11-23 at 10:31, kilopascal ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I wonder how many people think a nautical mile and land mile are one and the same On one airline flight I was on, they announced that "members of our frequent flier program will receive XXX nautical miles for this flight". Whoa!, I thought. I never realized they use _nautical_ miles for frequent flier points. What a sneaky way to give less points. Now I wonder if all airlines use nautical miles for their FFPs, and how many people realize that. On another recent flight, the pilot gave the weather only in Celsius (this was a U.S. domestic flight). Something like, "Dallas has partly cloudy skies, with a temperature of 17 degrees." I was happy to hear him not give the conversion.
[USMA:9381] [Fwd: Metal and alloy spec sheets]
The abbreviations on this page were terrible! I couldn't help myself but had to comment -- politely, of course. Jim "James R. Frysinger" wrote: Webmaster, Revere Copper Products, Inc. Dear Patrick, I happened upon your specification sheets, such as http://www.revereplate.com/brass.htm and noticed that you have some non-standard abbreviations in use. The standard symbols are more universally recognized and easily implemented on web pages. Instead of "Gm/CuCm", you should use "g/cm3" (where the 3 is in superscript position -- using the sup and /sup tags). If it is absolutely impossible for you to superscript the 3, the symbol "g/cm3" without a superscripted 3 is still vastly preferred over what you have on your pages. The symbol for gram is not Gm. The symbol for cubic centimeter is not CuCm (nor is it cc!). regards, James R. Frysinger -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:9382] Re: Poor fella!
The lengths some people go to avoid the metric system are really amazing. Maybe they equate it with the Ebola virus, which should be avoided at all cost indeed. He could have solved his problem simply by getting and using metric recipes. On the Internet anybody can find lots ad lots of them! Han Quoten "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Here's a guy who is working hard to solve the problem he has with brass balance weights being hard to find in ounces avoirdupois! http://www.hbd.org/brewery/library/ScaleW0296.html Jim -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:9383] Re: Poor fella!
In a message dated Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:18:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here's a guy who is working hard to solve the problem he has with brass balance weights being hard to find in ounces avoirdupois! http://www.hbd.org/brewery/library/ScaleW0296.html Jim Maybe he should convert his RECIPES instead. Carleton
[USMA:9384] Re: Poor fella!
The really funny thing is that he had to start with the average weight (i.e., mass) of a hops pellet in grams and then convert that to ounces! Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The lengths some people go to avoid the metric system are really amazing. Maybe they equate it with the Ebola virus, which should be avoided at all cost indeed. He could have solved his problem simply by getting and using metric recipes. On the Internet anybody can find lots ad lots of them! Han Quoten "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Here's a guy who is working hard to solve the problem he has with brass balance weights being hard to find in ounces avoirdupois! http://www.hbd.org/brewery/library/ScaleW0296.html Jim -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789 -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:9385] American's knowledge of SI vs. WOMBAT
In case anyone is interested, here are the other detailed results of the test we gave to all our students and faculty in 1998. The numbers are the percentage of respondents who knew the CORRECT answer. The first number is students (grades 7-12, but mostly 9 through 12), and the second number is faculty. (All but two of our faculty were native Americans; those two were young Canadians, who scored poorly on both the SI and WOMBAT questions). The questions are shortened. In the original wording on the actual test, most of the conversion-factor questions were phrased as fill-ins so they couldn't guess. The others were multiple choice. For the wombat units with odd or decimal conversions, we accepted as "correct" any answer that was remotely close to the actual value (e.g., for gallon, we accepted any value from 225 to 250 cubic inches; for bushel, any value from 2000 to 2500 cubic inches; for nautical mile, any value between 6000 and 6100 feet; for acre, any value from 43 000 to 44 000 square feet; for troy ounces in a pound, any value from 14 to 15). But they still got them wrong. Using a ruler 1. measure a specified line to nearest millimeter with a metric ruler: 65% 83% 2. measure a specified line to nearest 1/16" with an inch ruler: 20% 73% SI questions 3. kilo = thousand or 1000: 65% 67% 4. milli = 0.001 or 1/1000:69% 73% 5. mega = million:62% 67% 6. liter (L) = 1000 milliliters (mL):64%73% 7. gram (g) = 1000 milligrams (mg): 61% 67% 8. kilogram (kg) = 1000 grams (g): 54%70% 9. kilometer (km) = 1000 meters (m): 56% 57% 10. cubic meter (m³) = 1000 liters (L):19% 20% 11. meter (m) = 100 centimeters (cm): 60%77% WOMBAT questions 12. mile (statute or land) = 5280 feet: 31% 63% 13. pound (avoirdupois) = 16 ounces: 49% 13% 14. cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches: 14%37% 15. nautical mile = 6076 feet (approximately): 0% 0% 16. U.S. quart = 32 fluid ounces: 6%50% 17. U.S. gallon = 231 cubic inches: 0%0% 18. acre = 43 560 square feet (approximately): 0% 0% 19. ton (short) = 2000 pounds: 33%53% 20. U.S. bushel = 2150 cubic inches (approximately): 0% 0% 21. pound (avoirdupois) = 14.6 troy ounces (approximately):0% 0% Understanding quantities; a sense of scale (both SI and wombat) 22. the quantity of matter is called mass: 64% 67% 23. the kilogram is a unit of mass:22%37% 24. the liter measures volume: 79% 77% 25. a typical adult man is about 75 kg: 56% 63% 26. the distance to Phoenix (an hour's drive) is about 100 km:50% 77% 27. the temperature of freezing water is 0 °C:70% 80% 28. the temperature of freezing water is 32 °F:56% 87% 29. 1 liter of water is 1 kilogram: 18% 17% 30. a U.S. gallon of water is about 8.3 pounds:0%3%
[USMA:9387] Re: American's knowledge of SI vs. WOMBAT
??? Is this for real, Dennis? If it is, I c-a-n-n-o-t b-e-l-i-e-v-e the education of our future generations is in such poor hands!... :-( The only consolation I can find from this survey is that *American* people fared better in SI than they did in their own system! He, he, he... Had the public known about this and probably they'd have some second thoughts about adopting the SI after all (I hope...)... Marcus On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:35:12 Dennis Brownridge wrote: In case anyone is interested, here are the other detailed results of the test we gave to all our students and faculty in 1998. The numbers are the percentage of respondents who knew the CORRECT answer. The first number is students (grades 7-12, but mostly 9 through 12), and the second number is faculty. (All but two of our faculty were native Americans; those two were young Canadians, who scored poorly on both the SI and WOMBAT questions). The questions are shortened. In the original wording on the actual test, most of the conversion-factor questions were phrased as fill-ins so they couldn't guess. The others were multiple choice. For the wombat units with odd or decimal conversions, we accepted as "correct" any answer that was remotely close to the actual value (e.g., for gallon, we accepted any value from 225 to 250 cubic inches; for bushel, any value from 2000 to 2500 cubic inches; for nautical mile, any value between 6000 and 6100 feet; for acre, any value from 43 000 to 44 000 square feet; for troy ounces in a pound, any value from 14 to 15). But they still got them wrong. Using a ruler 1. measure a specified line to nearest millimeter with a metric ruler: 65% 83% 2. measure a specified line to nearest 1/16" with an inch ruler: 20% 73% SI questions 3. kilo = thousand or 1000: 65% 67% 4. milli = 0.001 or 1/1000:69% 73% 5. mega = million:62% 67% 6. liter (L) = 1000 milliliters (mL):64%73% 7. gram (g) = 1000 milligrams (mg): 61% 67% 8. kilogram (kg) = 1000 grams (g): 54%70% 9. kilometer (km) = 1000 meters (m): 56% 57% 10. cubic meter (m3) = 1000 liters (L):19% 20% 11. meter (m) = 100 centimeters (cm): 60%77% WOMBAT questions 12. mile (statute or land) = 5280 feet: 31% 63% 13. pound (avoirdupois) = 16 ounces: 49% 13% 14. cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches: 14%37% 15. nautical mile = 6076 feet (approximately): 0% 0% 16. U.S. quart = 32 fluid ounces: 6%50% 17. U.S. gallon = 231 cubic inches: 0%0% 18. acre = 43 560 square feet (approximately): 0% 0% 19. ton (short) = 2000 pounds: 33%53% 20. U.S. bushel = 2150 cubic inches (approximately): 0% 0% 21. pound (avoirdupois) = 14.6 troy ounces (approximately):0% 0% Understanding quantities; a sense of scale (both SI and wombat) 22. the quantity of matter is called mass: 64% 67% 23. the kilogram is a unit of mass:22%37% 24. the liter measures volume: 79% 77% 25. a typical adult man is about 75 kg: 56% 63% 26. the distance to Phoenix (an hour's drive) is about 100 km:50% 77% 27. the temperature of freezing water is 0 0C:70% 80% 28. the temperature of freezing water is 32 0F:56% 87% 29. 1 liter of water is 1 kilogram: 18% 17% 30. a U.S. gallon of water is about 8.3 pounds:0%3% Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
[USMA:9388] Re: American vs. Foreign
I suspect this is because they (the Americans) were immersed in metric and had no choice but to learn it. After that is usually quite clear which is the more practical and simpler system. This is the reason why the US must make one swift and total conversion to metric at the first possible opportunity. I'm sure our Australian friends on the List will agree with this approach. Most Canadians have ample opportunity to continue to use Imperial or American units (such as in the lumber industry) and thus have never bothered to even try to learn or use metric. Many of our young have converted to using Imperial/American simply because there is no opportunity to use metric. Our height, weight/mass, lumber, and home furnishings, are still Imperial. Our farms, businesses, and industries are still mostly Imerial. Many of our elders still speak only in Imperial. In my opinion, it is much easier to get by using nothing but Imperial units than exclusively metric units in Canada. Sure you have some confusion when buying gasoline or prepackaged goods, but heck, most people don't even bother reading the quantities they buy, just the price. Most of this is because we didn't complete our metrication efforts in the 1980s. greg "Han Maenen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2000-11-25 01:50:38 I met some of them some years ago in Ireland. There was no better country in the world than the USA and what the heck, why do they use that irrational Celsius scale in Europe? I stated that the USA was a decent democracy, but that she was no better or worse than other Western democracies. I also said that I far preferred Celsius to Fahrenheit. If I had let loose about ifp, telling them what I thought of it, they would probably have exploded. There is also another side to it. In 1972 a brother of mine married. Another brother had taken an American girl home who lived in Amsterdam. She was very different. And when she expressed a measurement she used metric. She said to me: "Metric is easier than English count". I now wonder whether she was a member of the USMA. I have met more pro-metric Americans in Erope. Han 6:04 Subject: [USMA:9310] American vs. Foreign 2000-11-23 Even though this sounds like a good idea, I doubt the US will ever adopt it. For one reason, it is a foreign idea snip
[USMA:9389] RE: [Fwd: Metal and alloy spec sheets]
gigameters per copper curium? One would think that people manufacturing copper and brass products would be more careful how and where they use the Cu symbol. Brass = 0.1 Zn/Cu (w/w) give or take. Scott C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James R. Frysinger Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 8:38 AM To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9381] [Fwd: Metal and alloy spec sheets] The abbreviations on this page were terrible! I couldn't help myself but had to comment -- politely, of course. Jim "James R. Frysinger" wrote: Webmaster, Revere Copper Products, Inc. Dear Patrick, I happened upon your specification sheets, such as http://www.revereplate.com/brass.htm and noticed that you have some non-standard abbreviations in use. The standard symbols are more universally recognized and easily implemented on web pages. Instead of "Gm/CuCm", you should use "g/cm3" (where the 3 is in superscript position -- using the sup and /sup tags). If it is absolutely impossible for you to superscript the 3, the symbol "g/cm3" without a superscripted 3 is still vastly preferred over what you have on your pages. The symbol for gram is not Gm. The symbol for cubic centimeter is not CuCm (nor is it cc!). regards, James R. Frysinger -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:9390] Re: Americans' famiiliarity with WOMBAT
If this is the case then why do I see on American products (in Canada) the following: 1 lb. (16 oz.) 454 g and 1 quart (2 pints, 32 fl. oz.) 946 mL It's obvious that if every American knew how many ounces in a pound, pint, quart, gallon, etc. then marketers wouldn't put this ridiculous string of measurements on their products. Just put "500 g" and "1 L" on the products and be done with it. Since they don't know WOMBAT then what is the big deal if they don't know metric quantities either. greg Saskatoon SK Canada Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2000-11-26 17:45:59 I am in the process of refuting the Almanac article point by point. One of the statements made therein was: . "we're quite smart enough to fiture out that there are 16 ounces in a pound, thank you--just ask any American 10-year-old." -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
[USMA:9392] Wanna go back to shillings and pence?
I could sympathize a tiny bit with Mr. May's perceptions ("convenience",
nationalism, etc.), but when he got to the point of using WOMBAT idiom
with metric conversions (the 568 ml thing, similar to "give him 2.54 cm
and he'll take 1.6 km"), then I'd prefer to walk away. Such a style of
criticism of falls on deaf and impatient ears.
Mr. May, wherever you are in the UK: what we are trying to do is
MEASURE, not ROMANTICIZE. I understand your concern with the loss of
days of yore, but, speaking for myself, I can't run after the ice cream
man's bell any more (would look fine for an 8-year-old, but pretty funny
for a 48-year-old, to do it). The duodecimal units of measurement were
for a former time, while the International System of Units is for our
time, for the age of the internet, of space travel, and of a scientific
culture. Still, halves and quarters will not be prohibited by SI, so
please feel free to step up to the bar and order a half litre of your
favorite brew.
I don't believe that a national identity can be threatened in any way by
the adoption of a global system of measurement. Metres and grams will
not dim the colors of either the Union Jack or Old Glory, will not
diminish the grandeur Trafalgar Square or Times Square, and will not
alter our legacies to the world except, perhaps, to better them, by
showing that we want to enable our citizens to share in the benefits of
a simple standard of measurement.
What I would cherish from Mr. May is his answer to this question: do you
want to change your decimal Pound Sterling back to the
pounds/shillings/pence system?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I thought I'd forward a message I've just received. Your comments are
welcome!
As a 19 year old student, I am baffled by the ridiculous way in which the country is
being forced into metrication. Why are we changing when it is quite obvious that the
vast majority of people in this country (72%) are opposed to it.
Why is there such an urge to 'come into line' with other countries, when to many
people
our national identity is defined by our difference to others. When will it stop?
People
who 'have made several complaints to my local TSD about store signs displaying milk
prices...in pints', will be in the front line once again when it comes to forcing
the
British public to drive on the wrong side of the road. Why should we change. In an
extreme
view, why can't other countries change to our system. It is about time that Britain
was
left to make some of its own decisions. If a referendum were held, then the public
would
not choose any of the changes that you have proposed in your pages.
You say 96% of the world's population already use the metric system? Really? Surely
America
and Britain make up over 4% of the world's population, and both use Inches, Pounds
etc.
One of the members of my family is a midwife, and finds herself forced by
legislation to tell
the mothers their baby's weight in metric, invariably meeting with a request for lb
and oz.
Imperial numeracy is more convenient, when using inches etc. 12 can be divided into
by 1,2,3,4 6,
whereas 10 has a meagre 1,2 and 5.
You say that it is ridiculous that we use miles, when we buy petrol in litres, but
you appear
not to have considered changing the volume rather than the road system. The
government pushes
the public into these situations by changing one thing, and then attempting to
justify other
changes in relation to that first one. Rather Domino-esque.
I am not trying to advocate the abolition of Metrication for business purposes. I
think that
the public should be able to make a decision without being pressured into changing.
Also, from a student's point of view, how are we supposed to order beer in your
future. 'Can I
have a 568ml glass of your finest brew please Landlord' A pint is the perfect size.
Not too much,
and not too small.
Yours Perplexedly,
Tim May
--
Chris KEENAN
UK Metrication Association: http://www.metric.org.uk
Pro-metric mailing list now available.
--
Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122
Midland TX 79707-2872 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the
finding of a modified barium swallow."
--Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist
"Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9393] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: US industry metrication]]
2000-11-27 I think someone needs to contact him and explain what has been delayed and what hasn't. He probably thinks either SI and FFU can be used. He needs to have it explained to him, the delay only applies to the use of supplemental unit declarations. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Louis JOURDAN Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 02:40 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9377] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: US industry metrication]] At 22:50 -0500 00/11/26, Mike wrote: I got this email recently (see below). When last I "spoke" with this guy, I wasn't really able to guess his angle on all of this, including whether he was pro- or anti- metrication (he's British, but that doesn't really mean much). If you want to respond to his request, please do it directly to him at mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I won't be replying to him, nor will I be forwarding to him mail sent to the list, or to me directly (note that my email address is no longer the one listed below). Mike Jenkins Laurel MD Subject: Re: US industry metrication Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:46:58 +0100 From: "Tony Steinmetz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Mike and Joan, We now have the 10 year delay of the implementation of metric-only in Europe. We worry that metrication is now no longer an issue until 2010, when a new delay in the EU will be asked by the US. In Orgalime, the European Associations of electrotechnicaland mechanical Industry associations we have asked European industries active in the US to use their influence and we have also asked Orgalime to discuss the issue with NEMA. Is there anything you would advise us to do here from Europe? We do hope that metric only will at least be allowed inthe US in 2010. Regards, Tony Steinmetz. I used to work with ORGALIME when I was in Brussels. As far as I know, they always had a rather pro-metric stance within UNICE, the Industry Association of Europe (the European part of the TABD). I think we can trust them. Louis
[USMA:9394] RE: American's knowledge of SI vs. WOMBAT
2000-11-27 This information should be sent to the guy who made the statement about the 10 year olds. But, again, he wouldn't believe it. He would tell you it is anti-American, communist devised, foreign propaganda. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dennis Brownridge Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 12:35 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9385] American's knowledge of SI vs. WOMBAT In case anyone is interested, here are the other detailed results of the test we gave to all our students and faculty in 1998. The numbers are the percentage of respondents who knew the CORRECT answer. The first number is students (grades 7-12, but mostly 9 through 12), and the second number is faculty. (All but two of our faculty were native Americans; those two were young Canadians, who scored poorly on both the SI and WOMBAT questions). The questions are shortened. In the original wording on the actual test, most of the conversion-factor questions were phrased as fill-ins so they couldn't guess. The others were multiple choice. For the wombat units with odd or decimal conversions, we accepted as "correct" any answer that was remotely close to the actual value (e.g., for gallon, we accepted any value from 225 to 250 cubic inches; for bushel, any value from 2000 to 2500 cubic inches; for nautical mile, any value between 6000 and 6100 feet; for acre, any value from 43 000 to 44 000 square feet; for troy ounces in a pound, any value from 14 to 15). But they still got them wrong. Using a ruler 1. measure a specified line to nearest millimeter with a metric ruler: 65% 83% 2. measure a specified line to nearest 1/16" with an inch ruler: 20% 73% SI questions 3. kilo = thousand or 1000: 65% 67% 4. milli = 0.001 or 1/1000:69% 73% 5. mega = million:62% 67% 6. liter (L) = 1000 milliliters (mL):64%73% 7. gram (g) = 1000 milligrams (mg): 61% 67% 8. kilogram (kg) = 1000 grams (g): 54%70% 9. kilometer (km) = 1000 meters (m): 56% 57% 10. cubic meter (m³) = 1000 liters (L):19% 20% 11. meter (m) = 100 centimeters (cm): 60%77% WOMBAT questions 12. mile (statute or land) = 5280 feet: 31% 63% 13. pound (avoirdupois) = 16 ounces: 49% 13% 14. cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches: 14%37% 15. nautical mile = 6076 feet (approximately): 0% 0% 16. U.S. quart = 32 fluid ounces: 6%50% 17. U.S. gallon = 231 cubic inches: 0%0% 18. acre = 43 560 square feet (approximately): 0% 0% 19. ton (short) = 2000 pounds: 33%53% 20. U.S. bushel = 2150 cubic inches (approximately): 0% 0% 21. pound (avoirdupois) = 14.6 troy ounces (approximately):0% 0% Understanding quantities; a sense of scale (both SI and wombat) 22. the quantity of matter is called mass: 64% 67% 23. the kilogram is a unit of mass:22%37% 24. the liter measures volume: 79% 77% 25. a typical adult man is about 75 kg: 56% 63% 26. the distance to Phoenix (an hour's drive) is about 100 km:50% 77% 27. the temperature of freezing water is 0 °C:70% 80% 28. the temperature of freezing water is 32 °F:56% 87% 29. 1 liter of water is 1 kilogram: 18% 17% 30. a U.S. gallon of water is about 8.3 pounds:0%3%
[USMA:9396] Re: Americans' famiiliarity with WOMBAT
2000-11-27 I asked that question a long time ago, and the response I got was that the labeling laws require it. I guess the all knowing Congress knew that Americans would forget the FFU, so this is a constant reminder of how things go together. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gregory Peterson Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 16:49 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9390] Re: Americans' famiiliarity with WOMBAT If this is the case then why do I see on American products (in Canada) the following: 1 lb. (16 oz.) 454 g and 1 quart (2 pints, 32 fl. oz.) 946 mL It's obvious that if every American knew how many ounces in a pound, pint, quart, gallon, etc. then marketers wouldn't put this ridiculous string of measurements on their products. Just put "500 g" and "1 L" on the products and be done with it. Since they don't know WOMBAT then what is the big deal if they don't know metric quantities either. greg Saskatoon SK Canada Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2000-11-26 17:45:59 I am in the process of refuting the Almanac article point by point. One of the statements made therein was: . "we're quite smart enough to fiture out that there are 16 ounces in a pound, thank you--just ask any American 10-year-old." -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
[USMA:9395] RE: The 2001 Almanac for Farmers and CityFolk, pp.115-116
2000-11-27 Greg, I don't know. I guess if the propaganda machine constantly pumps out the "we are better than everyone else" slogan, you believe it right or wrong. The masses are like sheep following the shepherd without question. The shepherd being the perpetrators of the propaganda. Or you can associate it to a religious belief. America is a God, to be worshipped and adored. The old time religions are fading away. They don't hold the power they once did. So, people replace the old god with a new one. America is the new god. John -Original Message- From: Gregory Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 13:23 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [USMA:9330] RE: The 2001 Almanac for Farmers and CityFolk, pp.115-116 Hi John, What do you think is the source of this feeling in the United States? Is it the fact that the country forcibly removed itself from the British Empire? Could it be that it is because the US is both a military and an economic power? Might it have to do with the fact that the US is quite isolated from the rest of the world, having to share a terrestrial border only with Canada and Mexico: both quite similar to the US in many respects, but no where near as influential on the world stage? Pierre Trudeau had a good analogy of the Canada/US relationship. Living so close to the US is like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly the elephant is, you still worry about the elephant rolling over in it's sleep. When the US rolled over on metric, I'm quite suprised that Canada's metrication efforts went as far as they did. After all we are each other's largest trading partners. greg "kilopascal" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2000-11-24 13:24:48 2000-11-24 Well Bill, it isn't a matter of reading minds. In this case, we all know how Americans in general feel about themselves as a nation and the how they fit in with the rest of the world. There is a strong feeling of arrogance and superiority in this country. You know it as well as I do. If you don't, then you are either very isolated or have chosen to block or filter it out. I have not met one fellow countryman who does not feel to some degree that the US is above everyone else, and the world should be following the US and the US the world. I do travel a lot on business, and have been all over the country, and the beliefs are basically the same no matter what the region. So, when I say everyone, American and other, on this list knows I right, I mean it. Unless I am shown differently by many experiences that this has changed, I will not change how I feel on this subject. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bill Potts Sent: Friday, 2000-11-24 13:21 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9329] RE: The 2001 Almanac for Farmers and City Folk, pp.115-116 John Schweisthal wrote: The truth is everyone on this list knows I'm right and are afraid to admit it, even to themselves. Gee, John, I'm so impressed that you can read everyone's mind. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
[USMA:9398] RE: Wanna go back to shillings and pence?
2000-11-27
I can't. This sounds too much like BWMA and UKIP propaganda.
John
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Paul Trusten
Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 18:08
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:9392] Wanna go back to shillings and pence?
I could sympathize a tiny bit with Mr. May's perceptions ("convenience",
nationalism, etc.), but when he got to the point of using WOMBAT idiom
with metric conversions (the 568 ml thing, similar to "give him 2.54 cm
and he'll take 1.6 km"), then I'd prefer to walk away. Such a style of
criticism of falls on deaf and impatient ears.
Mr. May, wherever you are in the UK: what we are trying to do is
MEASURE, not ROMANTICIZE. I understand your concern with the loss of
days of yore, but, speaking for myself, I can't run after the ice cream
man's bell any more (would look fine for an 8-year-old, but pretty funny
for a 48-year-old, to do it). The duodecimal units of measurement were
for a former time, while the International System of Units is for our
time, for the age of the internet, of space travel, and of a scientific
culture. Still, halves and quarters will not be prohibited by SI, so
please feel free to step up to the bar and order a half litre of your
favorite brew.
I don't believe that a national identity can be threatened in any way by
the adoption of a global system of measurement. Metres and grams will
not dim the colors of either the Union Jack or Old Glory, will not
diminish the grandeur Trafalgar Square or Times Square, and will not
alter our legacies to the world except, perhaps, to better them, by
showing that we want to enable our citizens to share in the benefits of
a simple standard of measurement.
What I would cherish from Mr. May is his answer to this question: do you
want to change your decimal Pound Sterling back to the
pounds/shillings/pence system?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I thought I'd forward a message I've just received. Your comments are
welcome!
As a 19 year old student, I am baffled by the ridiculous way in
which the country is
being forced into metrication. Why are we changing when it is
quite obvious that the
vast majority of people in this country (72%) are opposed to it.
Why is there such an urge to 'come into line' with other
countries, when to many people
our national identity is defined by our difference to others.
When will it stop? People
who 'have made several complaints to my local TSD about store
signs displaying milk
prices...in pints', will be in the front line once again when
it comes to forcing the
British public to drive on the wrong side of the road. Why
should we change. In an extreme
view, why can't other countries change to our system. It is
about time that Britain was
left to make some of its own decisions. If a referendum were
held, then the public would
not choose any of the changes that you have proposed in your pages.
You say 96% of the world's population already use the metric
system? Really? Surely America
and Britain make up over 4% of the world's population, and both
use Inches, Pounds etc.
One of the members of my family is a midwife, and finds herself
forced by legislation to tell
the mothers their baby's weight in metric, invariably meeting
with a request for lb and oz.
Imperial numeracy is more convenient, when using inches etc. 12
can be divided into by 1,2,3,4 6,
whereas 10 has a meagre 1,2 and 5.
You say that it is ridiculous that we use miles, when we buy
petrol in litres, but you appear
not to have considered changing the volume rather than the
road system. The government pushes
the public into these situations by changing one thing, and
then attempting to justify other
changes in relation to that first one. Rather Domino-esque.
I am not trying to advocate the abolition of Metrication for
business purposes. I think that
the public should be able to make a decision without being
pressured into changing.
Also, from a student's point of view, how are we supposed to
order beer in your future. 'Can I
have a 568ml glass of your finest brew please Landlord' A pint
is the perfect size. Not too much,
and not too small.
Yours Perplexedly,
Tim May
--
Chris KEENAN
UK Metrication Association: http://www.metric.org.uk
Pro-metric mailing list now available.
--
Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122
Midland TX 79707-2872 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the
finding of a modified barium swallow."
--Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist
"Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9397] RE: (fwd) Metrication...Why?
2000-11-27 This sounds like BWMA and UKIP babble and propaganda. Either this kid is active in those movements or he is regurgitating their propaganda to see how you respond. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 17:34 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9391] (fwd) Metrication...Why? I thought I'd forward a message I've just received. Your comments are welcome! As a 19 year old student, I am baffled by the ridiculous way in which the country is being forced into metrication. Why are we changing when it is quite obvious that the vast majority of people in this country (72%) are opposed to it. Why is there such an urge to 'come into line' with other countries, when to many people our national identity is defined by our difference to others. When will it stop? People who 'have made several complaints to my local TSD about store signs displaying milk prices...in pints', will be in the front line once again when it comes to forcing the British public to drive on the wrong side of the road. Why should we change. In an extreme view, why can't other countries change to our system. It is about time that Britain was left to make some of its own decisions. If a referendum were held, then the public would not choose any of the changes that you have proposed in your pages. You say 96% of the world's population already use the metric system? Really? Surely America and Britain make up over 4% of the world's population, and both use Inches, Pounds etc. One of the members of my family is a midwife, and finds herself forced by legislation to tell the mothers their baby's weight in metric, invariably meeting with a request for lb and oz. Imperial numeracy is more convenient, when using inches etc. 12 can be divided into by 1,2,3,4 6, whereas 10 has a meagre 1,2 and 5. You say that it is ridiculous that we use miles, when we buy petrol in litres, but you appear not to have considered changing the volume rather than the road system. The government pushes the public into these situations by changing one thing, and then attempting to justify other changes in relation to that first one. Rather Domino-esque. I am not trying to advocate the abolition of Metrication for business purposes. I think that the public should be able to make a decision without being pressured into changing. Also, from a student's point of view, how are we supposed to order beer in your future. 'Can I have a 568ml glass of your finest brew please Landlord' A pint is the perfect size. Not too much, and not too small. Yours Perplexedly, Tim May -- Chris KEENAN UK Metrication Association: http://www.metric.org.uk Pro-metric mailing list now available.
[USMA:9399] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: US industry metrication]]
2000-11-27 FFU = Fred Flintstone Units. It is the term I use for what others call wombat. It refers to all non-SI units and mocks them by indicating their "stone-age", thus out-dated, origins. John -Original Message- From: Paul Trusten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 19:00 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [USMA:9393] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: US industry metrication]] John, what is FFU? I must have been away when that was first used. kilopascal wrote: 2000-11-27 I think someone needs to contact him and explain what has been delayed and what hasn't. He probably thinks either SI and FFU can be used. He needs to have it explained to him, the delay only applies to the use of supplemental unit declarations. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Louis JOURDAN Sent: Monday, 2000-11-27 02:40 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9377] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: US industry metrication]] At 22:50 -0500 00/11/26, Mike wrote: I got this email recently (see below). When last I "spoke" with this guy, I wasn't really able to guess his angle on all of this, including whether he was pro- or anti- metrication (he's British, but that doesn't really mean much). If you want to respond to his request, please do it directly to him at mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I won't be replying to him, nor will I be forwarding to him mail sent to the list, or to me directly (note that my email address is no longer the one listed below). Mike Jenkins Laurel MD Subject: Re: US industry metrication Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:46:58 +0100 From: "Tony Steinmetz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Mike and Joan, We now have the 10 year delay of the implementation of metric-only in Europe. We worry that metrication is now no longer an issue until 2010, when a new delay in the EU will be asked by the US. In Orgalime, the European Associations of electrotechnicaland mechanical Industry associations we have asked European industries active in the US to use their influence and we have also asked Orgalime to discuss the issue with NEMA. Is there anything you would advise us to do here from Europe? We do hope that metric only will at least be allowed inthe US in 2010. Regards, Tony Steinmetz. I used to work with ORGALIME when I was in Brussels. As far as I know, they always had a rather pro-metric stance within UNICE, the Industry Association of Europe (the European part of the TABD). I think we can trust them. Louis -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] "No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the finding of a modified barium swallow." --Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist "Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9404] RE: Little 'drop' at the USPS and a non-USA rate question
Here is a copy and paste of the rate info from the Latvian Post. You can see the increments there. Don't mind other numbers, they represent the actual rates. For more info, you can refer to http://www.post.lv 7.2.1. Lidz 20 g 0,15 0,30 0,40 7.2.2. No 20 lidz 100 g 0,50 0,50 0,80 7.2.3. No 100 lidz 250 g 1,40 1,40 2,00 7.2.4. No 250 lidz 500 g 2,80 2,80 4,00 7.2.5. No 500 lidz 1000 g 3,75 3,75 5,00 7.2.6. No 1000 lidz 2000 g 7,50 7,50 10,00 Cheers, Nick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael G. Koerner Sent: 27 November 2000 20.17 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9403] Little 'drop' at the USPS and a non-USA rate question I had to go to the local Post Office a few days ago to buy a USPS money order. Recently, they installed new cashier equipment, including a new automatic money order security printer. As I was looking over the MO and its attached receipt, I noticed that the date on the document was in the latest ISO '-MM-DD' format. Another, albeit small, 'drip'. :-) Also, how do non-USA postal authorities figure letter/package rates (rate/mass units)? I assume that most, if not all, are by certain blocks of grams (ie, rate/25 g). -- Regards, Michael G. Koerner Appleton, WI
