[USMA:9475] (off topic) Re: Canadian General Election
No recounts? No lawsuits? No lengthy debates over chads? Why can't the US have a system like that? - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Reid" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "U.S. Metric Association" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 06:02 Subject: [USMA:9406] Canadian General Election I must apologize for this very off-topic posting. However, I think some other persons have been as quilty as I in this regard. Yesterday Canada had a general election. The old-fashioned paper ballots were marked with lead pencils. There were no exit polls. All ballolts were hand counted - no machinery. The result was known by 22:15 EST, and the Leader of the Opposition made his concession speech at 23:15 EST. The Globe and Mail this morning printed the results from the the 301 constituencies, including three arctic constituencies. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
[USMA:9477] Re: Figures of speech remain!!
In a message dated 2000-11-30 18:11:33 Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Milestone. We need to get Microsoft Project and the Project Management Institute to change that also. Baron Also our local big-box shopping center in Germantown, Maryland, just north of here, so I can go to Petsmart, Home Depot, Target and Mega Lo Mart at the Kilometerstone Center. Carleton
[USMA:9479] Swatch Time editorial
There was an editorial in my local paper today, the Rochester Democrat Chronicle. It was an anti-swatch time editorial but there was a hidden pro metric message. The article was against swatch time arguing that the 24 hr clock was based on scientific principles and does not lends itself to a logical division by 10. "Time doesn't fit nicely into division of 10 the way that measuring distance or weight does. Scientist had their reasons for choosing 24 hours and 60 minutes , and they still hold" I may write and ask them, if measuring by 10's is so simple why does the paper insist on measuring everything in 12's (ie inches/feet). Howard Ressel, Metric Manager New York State Department of Transportation, Region 4
[USMA:9480] new teasers are posted
Valerie and Lorelle, There are some additional upgrades to post at some time, but instead of waiting for those I just uploaded the MT page with the latest teasers. Receive my 5 copies of MT in the mail yesterday. Don
[USMA:9481] RE: Babylonian units
Newspaper editors are so incredibly ignorant about measurement. "Scientists" didn't have any "reason" to divide days into 24 hours and hours into 60 minutes and minutes into 60 seconds. It was the ancient Babylonians who invented hours, for superstitious astrological reasons (12 zodiac constellations = 12 hours). The Babylonians, who had a complicated non-decimal number system, also gave us those clumsy sexagesimal subdivisions, "first minúte parts" [minutes] and "second minúte parts" [seconds] that still plague us in several different angle and time units (especially in astronomy and geography). "Scientists" tried to introduce decimal time along with the original metric system, but it failed because the old units were too entrenched. And I understand that in the middle ages, hours were divided decimally for a while. The second of time is one of the major weaknesses of SI, but it's too late to change now. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Howard Ressel Sent: 2000 December 1 Friday 06:17 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9479] Swatch Time editorial There was an editorial in my local paper today, the Rochester Democrat Chronicle. It was an anti-swatch time editorial but there was a hidden pro metric message. The article was against swatch time arguing that the 24 hr clock was based on scientific principles and does not lends itself to a logical division by 10. "Time doesn't fit nicely into division of 10 the way that measuring distance or weight does. Scientist had their reasons for choosing 24 hours and 60 minutes , and they still hold" I may write and ask them, if measuring by 10's is so simple why does the paper insist on measuring everything in 12's (ie inches/feet). Howard Ressel, Metric Manager New York State Department of Transportation, Region 4
[USMA:9482] Re: Babylonian units
On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:00:29Dennis Brownridge wrote: ...The second of time is one of the major weaknesses of SI, but it's too late to change now. ... While I agreed with nearly everything you said in this post, I unfortunately cannot on this one above. I still honestly and sincerely do not think that it's too late for a change there. True, the best solution to fix this might be to redefine the second to a .864 fraction of the current one, i.e. to make it "faster" (this would evidently entail changes in a host of other time-related units, I know... But I'm focusing on this from a theoretical point of view). But I'd be happy to also consider keeping the second as is while changing time's framework from a 24-60-60 one to some "near" decimal alternative. In that regard I consider the "swatch time" proposal a rather interesting one. I'm rooting for it to... "hold" or be successful. Who knows if we might eventually "switch" to using a "beat" as an official unit of time (I know, I know, it would wreak havoc just the same, but this is at least a proposal which is on the table and that may have a better chance to "succeed" at fixing some "time woes" than to consider the redefinition of time as .864 of the "old" second. BTW, who knows if this may not trigger CGPM to reconsider meddling into this affair of time... again, "for the first time", and finally come up with an SI version 2.0... :-) ). Marcus Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
[USMA:9484] SI is English!
I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogramFrom chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain second the second division of the hour, latin secundus ampere French physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvin English (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin molenamed by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radian named by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newton English mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascal French mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule wattBritish engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb voltItalian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree Celsius Swedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel grayBritish physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin 10 English/British 6 German 4 French 4 American2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. Since this is non-HTML the columns may get messed up in transit. Cheers, Scott C
[USMA:9485] Re: SI is English!
At 11:07 -0800 00/12/1, Scott Clauss wrote: Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? the curie, from Marie Curie (1867-1934), a great French scientist of Polish origin. A pity that her name was not retained for a SI unit... Louis
[USMA:9487] Re: SI is English!
OK, I give up. What's a talbot? The only thing I can find within 2 min is "Talbot", an English dog that may have been the predecessor for the bloodhound. And while you're at it, how many Sverdrup Janskies per Dobson Unit is that? ;-) Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Scott Clauss wrote: I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogram From chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain secondthe second division of the hour, latin secundus ampereFrench physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvinEnglish (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin mole named by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radiannamed by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newtonEnglish mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascalFrench mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule watt British engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb volt Italian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree CelsiusSwedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel gray British physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin10 English/British 6 German4 French4 American 2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. Since this is non-HTML the columns may get messed up in transit. Cheers, Scott C -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:9488] Re: SI is English!
Henry Fox Talbot. Check this reference: http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Talbot.html. I made a quick visit, myself, and noticed a glaring error (Wiltshire misspelled Whiltshire). No other obvious errors though. You might try using the Google search engine (http://google.com). The above URL was from the ninth hit. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James R.Frysinger Sent: December 01, 2000 14:04 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9487] Re: SI is English! OK, I give up. What's a talbot? The only thing I can find within 2 min is "Talbot", an English dog that may have been the predecessor for the bloodhound. And while you're at it, how many Sverdrup Janskies per Dobson Unit is that? ;-) Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Scott Clauss wrote: I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogramFrom chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain second the second division of the hour, latin secundus ampere French physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvin English (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin molenamed by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radian named by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newton English mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascal French mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule wattBritish engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb voltItalian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree Celsius Swedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel grayBritish physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin 10 English/British 6 German 4 French 4 American2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. Since this is non-HTML the columns may get messed up in transit. Cheers, Scott C -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:9489] Re: Australia not fully converted yet
I'm not sure what an international unit is vis a vis SI, but it is not backward. It is a correct expression of a concentration, sayeth this apothecary. "Carter, Baron" wrote: Australia not fully converted yet. Its Quarantine and Inspection Service still quotes vaccination doses in IU/ml http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf Name: Boomerang.gif Boomerang.gifType: GIF Image (image/gif) Encoding: base64 -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] "No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the finding of a modified barium swallow." --Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist "Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9490] Re: Australia not fully converted yet
Some vitamin and vaccine doses are measured by their biological activity, which, in turn, does not directly relate to the mass of a discrete compound per unit volume (concentration), so it is impossible to give a exact concentration for them in any metric units (or FFUs for that matter). International Units (IU) are used instead. These are based on an internationally agreed on biologicall effect or response. I don't know what organizations do this agreeing. Vitamins A, D and E are examples of this. There are various forms of these vitamins with which the body can "do its thing." Each has a different molecular weight so to get the same effect would require different concentrations of each form. The vitamins you buy are most likely mixtures of various forms. Vaccines are sometimes made of busted up bits of viruses or bacteria. Some of these bits can evoke an immune response, but trying to get a precise mass and therefore a precise concentration based on which bits cause a immune response while discounting those that do not would not be useful. In short I think that dispensing vaccine by IU/mL does not disqualify Australia from the fully converted side of the isle. Scott C -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Trusten Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 2:33 PM To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9489] Re: Australia not fully converted yet I'm not sure what an international unit is vis a vis SI, but it is not backward. It is a correct expression of a concentration, sayeth this apothecary. "Carter, Baron" wrote: Australia not fully converted yet. Its Quarantine and Inspection Service still quotes vaccination doses in IU/ml http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf Name: Boomerang.gif Boomerang.gifType: GIF Image (image/gif) Encoding: base64 -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] "No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the finding of a modified barium swallow." --Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist "Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9491] FW: SI is English!
Meant to send this to the list, but it went to James F. only--oops. SC -Original Message- From: Scott Clauss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [USMA:9484] SI is English! The talbot is a unit of luminous (light) energy. One talbot is the energy carried by a light flux of one lumen in one second, that is, the talbot is the same as the lumen second (lm·s). For light of wavelength 555 nanometers (nm), the wavelength to which the eye is most sensitive, the talbot equals 1.464 millijoule. For other wavelengths l, the talbot equals 1.464·V(l) millijoules, where V(l) is the "luminous efficiency," a factor representing the relative sensitivity of the eye at wavelength l. Although the talbot is compatible with the SI, it has not been accepted as part of the International System; the symbol T would not be acceptable since it duplicates the symbol for the tesla. The unit, previously called the lumberg, is now named for the British physicist W.H. Fox Talbot (1800-1877). Above stolen from : http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictT.html I don't think you could convert talbots to Sverdrup(m3/s) Janskies(W/m2Hz) per Dobson Unit(m) without extreme difficulty and much hand waving, but Sverdrup was Norwegian, Jansky was American and Dobson was (is?) British--none is French. SC -Original Message- From: James R.Frysinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 2:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Scott Clauss; U.S. Metric Association Subject: Re: [USMA:9484] SI is English! OK, I give up. What's a talbot? The only thing I can find within 2 min is "Talbot", an English dog that may have been the predecessor for the bloodhound. And while you're at it, how many Sverdrup Janskies per Dobson Unit is that? ;-) Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Scott Clauss wrote: I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogramFrom chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain second the second division of the hour, latin secundus ampere French physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvin English (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin molenamed by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radian named by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newton English mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascal French mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule wattBritish engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb voltItalian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree Celsius Swedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel grayBritish physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin 10 English/British 6 German 4 French 4 American2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I
[USMA:9492] Re: SI is English!
Thanks to Bill and Scott, on the talbot. As I said, I had not taken the time to do an internet keyword search. I appreciate you two for doing that for me. I'll have to add that to my unwritten list of arcane, guild-craft terminology, along with the Sverdrup, Jansky, Dobson Unit, Kilpatrick, etc. Gee, and scientists wonder why beginning students think we make things complicated! Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Bill Potts wrote: Henry Fox Talbot. Check this reference: http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Talbot.html. I made a quick visit, myself, and noticed a glaring error (Wiltshire misspelled Whiltshire). No other obvious errors though. You might try using the Google search engine (http://google.com). The above URL was from the ninth hit. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James R.Frysinger Sent: December 01, 2000 14:04 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9487] Re: SI is English! OK, I give up. What's a talbot? The only thing I can find within 2 min is "Talbot", an English dog that may have been the predecessor for the bloodhound. And while you're at it, how many Sverdrup Janskies per Dobson Unit is that? ;-) Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Scott Clauss wrote: I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogram From chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain secondthe second division of the hour, latin secundus ampereFrench physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvinEnglish (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin mole named by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radiannamed by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newtonEnglish mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascalFrench mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule watt British engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb volt Italian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree CelsiusSwedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel gray British physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin10 English/British 6 German4 French4 American 2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. Since this is non-HTML the columns may get messed up in transit. Cheers, Scott C -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805
[USMA:9493] Re: SI is English!
Scott Clauss wrote in USMA 9484: If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. I suspect the talbot has something to do with William Henry Fox Talbot (1800-1877) who was one of the pioneers of photography. Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? I suggest the curie, nanmed after the Poliah Marie Curie, née Sklodowska. And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. I suppose the term British would be appropriate for events after 1707 when the Scottish parliament was abolished and Scotland started to send MPs to the parliament of Westminster.
[USMA:9494] RE: SI is English!
Scott has made a very important point, which I have often tried to pound into editors and textbook authors, to no avail: SI is really more "English" than "French." Of the 30 SI units, the great majority were either named by or for Anglo-American scientists, or are longstanding "English" units--usually with no competitors--that people don't realize are metric (second, hertz, volt, ampere, ohm, candle, lumen, lux, radian, mole, etc.), or were developed under the leadership of British or Americans (BAAS in 1870s, Chicago electrical conference in 1880s), or at the very least have long been familiar on all sorts of household products (L, mm, g). It is truly an international system. Everyone contributed. There are really very few SI units that most Americans have a "discomfort level" with (kg, km, cm, m, °C) and shun in favor of WOMBAT. Ironically, the major defects of SI were inherited either from traditional Babylo-English-Euro units (the second) or from the original French metric system (the irregularity of the kilogram, size of the meter, non-coherence of liter, prefix names, names with too many syllables, etc.). One could even argue--with all due respect to the French--that SI would be a much better and more coherent system if it hadn't been based on the metric system! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Scott Clauss Sent: 2000 December 1 Friday 12:07 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9484] SI is English! I have gotten tired of hearing the British and Americans say that SI is French, and isn't their system. This morning while looking at torque wrenches it stuck me as odd that they advertize them as using "English and metric" units, but the metric units were newton-meters. I thought is was silly saying Newton wasn't English, so I made this little table. Appears SI is more UK than anything else. What did I miss, and did I get anything wrong? meter From the Latin metrum and the Greek metron, both meaning "measure." kilogram From chilioi, the Greek word for a thousand + the Latin gramma, which was a small weight similar to the English grain secondthe second division of the hour, latin secundus ampereFrench physicist André-Marie Ampère kelvinEnglish (Scottish?) mathematician and physicist William Thomson, later Lord Kelvin mole named by W. Ostwald, a German Chemist, from MOLekulargewicht. candela From the Latin word for "candle." radiannamed by James Thomson, brother of Lord Kelvin, latin radius. steradian from the Greek stereos, solid + radian hertz German physicist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz newtonEnglish mathematician, and physicist Isaac Newton pascalFrench mathematician Blaise Pascal joule British physicist James Prescott Joule watt British engineer James Watt coulomb French physicist, Charles-Augustin de Coulomb volt Italian scientist Count Alessandro Volta farad British physicist Michael Faraday ohm German physicist Georg Simon Ohm siemens German electrical engineer Werner von Siemens weber German physicist Wilhelm Eduard Weber tesla (Croatian- (or Serbian-?))American electrical engineer Nikola Tesla henry American physicist Joseph Henry degree CelsiusSwedish astronomer and physicist Anders Celsius lumen from Latin for light lux from Latin for light becquerel French physicist, Antoine-Henri Becquerel gray British physician L. H. Gray sievert Swedish physicist Rolf Sievert katal From "catalyst"? Totals: Non-proper name origin10 English/British 6 German4 French4 American 2 Swedish 2 Italian 1 If you add the quasi-SI units of talbot, bel and neper you pick up two more Brits and another American. After spending some time doing this I found a nice web page that has a similar list with pictures of the men (yes they're all men) involved. http://indykfi.atomki.hu/indyKFI/MT/orig_si.htm Quick what metric derived, but not SI, unit is named after a woman? And on a off topic, what is the difference between British and English? I suppose they used to swing swords at each other because of the distinction, but in America at least in modern times the distinction has faded. Since this is non-HTML the columns may get messed up in transit. Cheers, Scott C
[USMA:9495] RE: time units
We can lament that the decimal time introduced by the French never caught on, and that Gauss and later scientists chose the second as the base unit for a coherent system. But we're stuck with it now. Without the second, SI would cease to exist. We can't avoid the natural time units, day and year, so people must learn that d = 86.4 ks and a = 31.6 Ms and do clumsy conversions. We can, however, avoid expressing quantities with the artificial hours and minutes (e.g., use m/s or L/s, not km/h or L/min), except or course when dealing with the time of day. Time is the first quantity that children learn to measure--in pre-school, even before length. It takes them years to master the ridiculous Babylonian system and analog clock, which are much more difficult than feet and inches or ounces and pounds. We could, I suppose, express the time of day in das, hs, or ks. But the Babylonian system is so engrained and universal that I don't think we'll ever root it out. My international students, who are justifiably amused by our irrational American units, nonetheless see nothing irrational or inconvenient about our time units--even when you ask them to add 6 d 3 h 18 min 43 s + 5 d 18 h 29 min 17 s and it takes them half a period to do it! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ma Be Sent: 2000 December 1 Friday 09:57 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9482] Re: Babylonian units On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:00:29Dennis Brownridge wrote: ...The second of time is one of the major weaknesses of SI, but it's too late to change now. ... While I agreed with nearly everything you said in this post, I unfortunately cannot on this one above. I still honestly and sincerely do not think that it's too late for a change there. True, the best solution to fix this might be to redefine the second to a .864 fraction of the current one, i.e. to make it "faster" (this would evidently entail changes in a host of other time-related units, I know... But I'm focusing on this from a theoretical point of view). But I'd be happy to also consider keeping the second as is while changing time's framework from a 24-60-60 one to some "near" decimal alternative. In that regard I consider the "swatch time" proposal a rather interesting one. I'm rooting for it to... "hold" or be successful. Who knows if we might eventually "switch" to using a "beat" as an official unit of time (I know, I know, it would wreak havoc just the same, but this is at least a proposal which is on the table and that may have a better chance to "succeed" at fixing some "time woes" than to consider the redefinition of time as .864 of the "old" second. BTW, who knows if this may not trigger CGPM to reconsider meddling into this affair of time... again, "for the first time", and finally come up with an SI version 2.0... :-) ). Marcus Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
[USMA:9496] RE: International Unit
I can understand that different substances, virus fragments, etc., have different relative physiological effect. This is a problem with some of the SI physiological units too, notably the sievert, which measures J/kg of radiation dose multiplied by some inscrutable "quality factor" that varies with the substance. But at some point in the manufacturing process, the medical industry has to measure the stuff somehow, regardless of what is in it, and they presumably do it by mass. Surely they are not counting out the molecules or virus fragments in every pill or dose. So couldn't we say that the IU is indirectly a measure of mass, with various mysterious "quality factors" multiplied in? -Original Message- From: Scott Clauss Some vitamin and vaccine doses are measured by their biological activity, which, in turn, does not directly relate to the mass of a discrete compound per unit volume (concentration), so it is impossible to give a exact concentration for them in any metric units (or FFUs for that matter). International Units (IU) are used instead. These are based on an internationally agreed on biologicall effect or response. I don't know what organizations do this agreeing. Vitamins A, D and E are examples of this. There are various forms of these vitamins with which the body can "do its thing." Each has a different molecular weight so to get the same effect would require different concentrations of each form. The vitamins you buy are most likely mixtures of various forms. Vaccines are sometimes made of busted up bits of viruses or bacteria. Some of these bits can evoke an immune response, but trying to get a precise mass and therefore a precise concentration based on which bits cause a immune response while discounting those that do not would not be useful. In short I think that dispensing vaccine by IU/mL does not disqualify Australia from the fully converted side of the isle. Scott C -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Trusten Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 2:33 PM To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9489] Re: Australia not fully converted yet I'm not sure what an international unit is vis a vis SI, but it is not backward. It is a correct expression of a concentration, sayeth this apothecary. "Carter, Baron" wrote: Australia not fully converted yet. Its Quarantine and Inspection Service still quotes vaccination doses in IU/ml http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf Name: Boomerang.gif Boomerang.gifType: GIF Image (image/gif) Encoding: base64 -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] "No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the finding of a modified barium swallow." --Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist "Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry
[USMA:9497] RE: International Unit
As I understand it, the problem is that a medication may be formulated in more than one manner. For example, in the case of vitamins, at least some of them are actually presented as precursors, I believe, and not the vitamin itself (because the vitamin would be destroyed by digestion prior to absorption). Those precursors might vary from one brand to another, so standard trials are used to empirically quantify the effects of the dose. I'm sure that Paul Trusten can tell us a lot more about this. Jim On Fri, 01 Dec 2000, Dennis Brownridge wrote: I can understand that different substances, virus fragments, etc., have different relative physiological effect. This is a problem with some of the SI physiological units too, notably the sievert, which measures J/kg of radiation dose multiplied by some inscrutable "quality factor" that varies with the substance. But at some point in the manufacturing process, the medical industry has to measure the stuff somehow, regardless of what is in it, and they presumably do it by mass. Surely they are not counting out the molecules or virus fragments in every pill or dose. So couldn't we say that the IU is indirectly a measure of mass, with various mysterious "quality factors" multiplied in? -Original Message- From: Scott Clauss Some vitamin and vaccine doses are measured by their biological activity, which, in turn, does not directly relate to the mass of a discrete compound per unit volume (concentration), so it is impossible to give a exact concentration for them in any metric units (or FFUs for that matter). International Units (IU) are used instead. These are based on an internationally agreed on biologicall effect or response. I don't know what organizations do this agreeing. Vitamins A, D and E are examples of this. There are various forms of these vitamins with which the body can "do its thing." Each has a different molecular weight so to get the same effect would require different concentrations of each form. The vitamins you buy are most likely mixtures of various forms. Vaccines are sometimes made of busted up bits of viruses or bacteria. Some of these bits can evoke an immune response, but trying to get a precise mass and therefore a precise concentration based on which bits cause a immune response while discounting those that do not would not be useful. In short I think that dispensing vaccine by IU/mL does not disqualify Australia from the fully converted side of the isle. Scott C -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Trusten Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 2:33 PM To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:9489] Re: Australia not fully converted yet I'm not sure what an international unit is vis a vis SI, but it is not backward. It is a correct expression of a concentration, sayeth this apothecary. "Carter, Baron" wrote: Australia not fully converted yet. Its Quarantine and Inspection Service still quotes vaccination doses in IU/ml http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf http://www.aqis.gov.au/docs/anpolicy/dogcatapplication.pdf Name: Boomerang.gif Boomerang.gifType: GIF Image (image/gif) Encoding: base64 -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] "No one from the Audubon Society has yet documented the finding of a modified barium swallow." --Byrd Ona Wyng, Forensic Ornithologist "Free Billy Rubin!" ---Medical Technologists' protest cry -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:9499] Re: Figures of speech remain!!
Dear Gustaf, I have interspersed some comments. on 02.12.2000 03.02, Gustaf Sjöberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat Naughtin wrote: on 31.10.2000 02.27, Howard Ressel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Howard and All, I received a call a few moments ago to say that an article of mine in a national editorial journal 'Stylewise', had been taken up by the Brisbane Courier-Mail. snip interesting! I have some questions about Australia and metric: When were speedlimits changed and was it done in an overnight-manner? During the early part of 1975 signs were erected all over the country with the hard metric speed limits and the hard metric distances, and, as soon as they were built, all these signs were covered. On a planned date - I seem to recall it was a Sunday in mid winter - all of the covers were removed and on the following days the old imperial signs were taken away. The whole operation probably took a year, but it all seemed to happen on one day. Within a month or so almost all Australians had accepted the new system. How do you say km/h? K per hour? This varies widely from person to person and on the formality of the occasion. You might here the full expression 'kilometres per hour', the shortened form 'kilometres', or the abbreviated form 'kays'; but none of these have an absolute preference. Is the word "klick" used for km in everyday speech? (I read about "klicksticks".) No this is not common. It seems to me that this term originated in rural areas and while you might here it in a city it seems to be regarded as having a sort of country hick feel about it. What other pet-names or quasi-metric units are used? Do you have 50 cL metric pints? No, the pints - as in a pint of milk for example - was converted to 600 mL and these are still available along with 1 L, 2 L and 4 L containers. Beer in other nations has been a strong repository of the word pint, but here the pint has been commonly used in only one state, New South Wales. Other states, and in NSW for other sizes glasses of beer, have always had pet names that have little meaning outside Australia. Some of the beer glasses are called butcher, glass, pot, pony, and schooner; these have a fixed size within any one state but the size can vary widely as soon as you cross a state border. For take away containers the bottles and cans of beer are called cans, tinnies, stubbies, or Darwin stubbies. The Darwin stubby is notable in that it holds a little over 2.2 litres of beer. Are mL used exclusively? Yes, for all soft drinks, beer, spirits, milk and so on. For larger volumes and capacities, refrigerators are measured in litres (L), and water storages are measured in kilolitres (kL), megalitres (ML), and gigalitres (GL). In contrast to this, building volumes are measured in cubic metres (m3) for air conditioning calculations. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia
