[USMA:11311] Mass or weight
John Tauxe wrote in USMA 11306: I guess to be more precise, we could say that the grain elevators infer the mass by measuring the weight. It's hard (impossible?) to measure mass directly. - John Tauxe At 15:09 2001-02-26 -0400, you wrote: Greg Peterson in USMA 11296 mentioned that saskatchewan farmers still talk about bushels. The Canadian bushel is 36,369 L and the American dry bushel is 35,239 L. In practice the discrepancy is rssolved by adopting the same nominal figure for the mass of a bushel for each of the several grains of commerce. Grain elevators do not measure the volume of the grain delivered to them, they measure the mass. Joseph B. Reid If I had written "the weight of a bushel" some of our SI purists would have rebuked me for writing "weight" when I should nave written "mass". A balance measures mass by comparing standard masses with the unknown. Toledo Scales have the motto "Honest weight, no springs". They should say "Honest mass". Spring scales meassure weight but are calibrated for the local acceleration of gravity to read mass. Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:11316] Units of Measure
But, we win some! The [Toronto] Globe Mail, in a petroleum-related story today, employed (millions of) cubic metres. No sign of Oil [ Gas] Patch bbls, Bbls, mmbbls, MMbbls, MMBbls etc. Duncan
[USMA:11317] Swatch Internet Time
FYI : The 24 hour time format is much better as there is no need to use AM/PM. But the time is not complete unless the time zone is given. With internet and globalization there is a need to specify time zone as well. Swatch (Swiss Watch company) has come with a new concept of time called Internet Time. * Here a day is split into 1000 ".beats" (.beat is just a unit) with each unit equivalent to 86.4 seconds. * Each day starts with @000 .beats and ends with @999 .beats. * To get further precision a .beat is divided into 100 decimal points. * Time is always prefixed with "@" symbol. So we can say that the time is @450 .beats or @450.37 .beats to be precise. * The most imporatant feature of this system is that there is only one time zone and the day starts with the day in midnight BMT (Biel Mean Time) and Biel is a place in Switzerland. In short it eliminates the need for time zone, hours, minutes, seconds AM/PM. It follows the same concept as metric system, where there is only one unit for every measure. For ex - meter for distance, liter - volume, gram - mass, etc. The company is selling watches with both Internet time and conventional time. Goto http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php?bg=ffticker=yezhaupt=langunter=intjs= and click on Internet Time link at the left bottom. This concept is way ahead of time. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[USMA:11319] Fw: Units of Measure
-Original Message- From: Time Letters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Duncan Bath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 27, 2001 12:44 Subject: Re: Units of Measure TIME Feb 19, Pg. 23 - "How much is under the tundra?" It seems to me that, in writing to the general public (not just the Oil [ Gas] Patch), TIME would use cubic metres rather than 'bbls' with which to express volume. Furthermore, fuel USAGE is expressed in litres per hundred kilometres (L/100 km). Duncan DT Bath, 861 Kensington Dr., Peterborough ON K9J 6J8 (705)743-4297 Dear Mr. Bath: Generally, we do try to use metric measures as well as others, but in referring to petroleum reserves, barrels is the standard unit of measurement. TIME letters
[USMA:11320] Mass or weight 11311 11306
11311 113062001-2-27
So we find it hard to separate mass and weight. Since when is this new?
We need to get this figured out. We need a linguist or somebody with brains
to invent a word , a verb both transitive and intransitive, parallel
to "weigh" to give the set:
weigh weight
mass
Then we will have:
"That box weighs 7067 newtons."
"That box es 721 kilograms."
"Weigh that box."
"Xxxx that box."
"The weight of that box is 7067 newtons."
"The mass of that box is 721 kilograms."
The verb and the noun can have different roots.
Does any language have such a word?
Some have said the verb is "mass" which gives:
"That box masses 721 kilograms."
"Mass that box."
Hey, everybody, what is the word?
Robert Bushnell
[USMA:11322] metric gasoline to attract Canadians
This is an old news story from CBC New Brunswick 2000-03-14, but I thought it might be of interest to the group. greg === Border-crossing for cheaper gas ST. STEPHEN - The price of gasoline has many motorists shopping around for the best deal. Right now that appears to be across the U.S. border. At an Irving station in Calais, Maine, the dealer is listing the Canadian price for his New Brunswick customers at 61.6 cents a litre. Station owner Phil Phee says he takes the time to do the metric and currency conversions to attract Canadian motorists. "We try to figure it out in the litres and the gallons for them and everything," he says. "They're still saving quite a bit by getting it on the American side," Phee says. The low U.S. price makes things tough for an Irving station in St. Stephen that is selling gas for 15 cents a litre more. Doug Bartlett, owner of the Red Rooster Restaurant and gas bar, says the only thing keeping his customers at home is his friendly service and the argument that motorists are getting a better quality product when they buy Canadian gas. "The only thing I keep telling my customers is we do get better gas mileage," he says. "They save a few dollars by going over there but I don't think they save in the long run." There are predictions the price in the U.S. could go as high as $2 a gallon, but people along the border can take some comfort in knowing that works out to just 77 cents a litre.
[USMA:11323] Mass Easily Measured
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, John Tauxe wrote: ... we could say that the grain elevators infer the mass by measuring the weight. It's hard (impossible?) to measure mass directly. Please explain the difficulty, John. Mass is *very easily measured directly* by an equal-arm balance, and even by an unequal-arm balance (including a system of multiple low friction levers) for the direct mass measurement of truckloads of grain. Gene.
[USMA:11324] Re: m2 not hectare
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Duncan Bath wrote: When I was growing up out in grain country, they did, indeed, measure mass; they used a balance beam scale. It would have worked just the same on the moon as in Standard (yes, STANDARD) Alberta! Now, with new-fangled load cells, that might be a different kettle of fish. Duncan, Even load cells must be calibrated by standard masses at the particular location they are to be used. Gene.
[USMA:11326] RE: Free ITU-D, R, T Recommendations
Thanks, Mike. It's definitely worthwhile.
I have the entire 1988 printed set ("Blue Books") of the V and X series
Recommendations, plus the Terms and Definitions document. It's nice to know
I can get three freebies if and when I need access to some of the newer
stuff.
Bill Potts, CMS
San Jose, CA
http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of mojo
Sent: February 27, 2001 06:17
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:11312] Free ITU-D, R, T Recommendations
FWIW, the ITU is permitting free download of up to three ITU-D,
ITU-R, and
ITU-T
recommendations during 2001; see the following URL:
http://www.itu.int/publications/bookshop/how-to-buy.html
Mike Jenkins
[USMA:11327] Mass NOT Easily Measured
Well, my note about not being able to measure mass generated some discussion, alsmost all of it identifying the balance as a way of measuring mass. I still disagree. At 13:11 2001-02-27 -0600, Gene Mechtly wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, John Tauxe wrote: ... we could say that the grain elevators infer the mass by measuring the weight. It's hard (impossible?) to measure mass directly. Please explain the difficulty, John. Mass is *very easily measured directly* by an equal-arm balance, and even by an unequal-arm balance (including a system of multiple low friction levers) for the direct mass measurement of truckloads of grain. Gene. No, here still, you are just comparing two weights. The only way to "weigh" mass is under the influence of a force, such as gravity, as is done with the balance. Now, given the nature of a balance in a constant gravity field, you could be said to be comparing masses, but again, you are really using their weight to do the comparison. I contend that mass can only be inferred by adjusting the weight by the force of local gravity. On the balance, you are comparing weights in the same gravity field, so the gravity field for both cancels out, and you can in effect compare the masses directly. Of course, the comparison must be made to a standard mass. And how was that standard mass arrived at without weighing it in a gravity field? Ah - the 1000 cm3 volume of pure water. But again, there you are measuring a volume, not a mass. Show me a device that can measure mass under zero gravity and I'll admit that mass can be measured. - John _ John Tauxe, PhD, PEvoice: 505.662.0707 ext 15 Neptune and Company fax: 505.662.0500 1505 15th St. Suite B mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Los Alamos, NM 87544-3063 LANL mailstop M969 ___ http://www.neptuneandco.com/~jtauxe _
[USMA:11328] Re: Mass or weight
Gene Mechtly wrote:
And thanks, Joe, for your "here here" ...
Which should, of course, have been "hear hear."
I'm amazed at how many well-educated people get that one wrong. (And you and
Joe are definitely well-educated.)
("Here here" is, of course, what you say to your dog. g)
Bill Potts, CMS
San Jose, CA
http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
[USMA:11330] Re: Fwd: Symbols for SI Prefixes (fwd)
There is a support for da or D for deca, h or H for hecto, and k or K for kilo, for at least a trial period, Why not they give a lower case English letter for micro instead of "". This will complete the cycle with upper case letters for more than 1 and lower case letters for less than 1. International Standard ISO 2955 recommends "u" when the Greek mu is not available. Why not use u all the time for micro-? Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:11329] Re: Fwd: Re: use of kgf rather than kN [Russia does NOT usemiles (link)]
Gregpry Peterson wrote in USMA 11313: Subject: Re: use of kgf rather than kN [[USMA:11297] Russia does NOT use miles (link)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Very interesting web site. I was concerned with the use of "kgf" for measuring thrust rather than kilonewtons. Is this standard practice in metric engineering to use "kgf" in place of "lbf" and newtons? I tracked down the kgf in http://www.airlaunch.ru/english/project/specifications.htm I was surprised. The kgf has been obsolete since 1960 when SI was introduced. Evidently that Russian company would reply "But we have always used kilogram-force". By the way, if NASA had used kilogram-force instead of newton, the Mars Climate Orbiter would not have crashed on the back side of Mars, but would have have carried on in straighter course into outer space. (Lochheed-Martin used pound-force in designing the ORBITER.) Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:11331] Re: Mass or weight 11311 11306
Bob, In the context of metrology, the verb "to weigh" means to balance forces for the purpose of measuring the mass of an object. The gerund form "weighing" is the process of balancing forces. The nound form "weight" (w = m . g) is the "force of gravity". These are already well defined terms (cf. CGPM declarations and ISO definitions); however frequently violated by nonconformists. ... On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... We need...to invent a word , a verb both transitive and intransitive, parallel to "weigh" to give the set: weigh weight mass ... Bob, Mass is easy to measure by standard masses in the process of weighing. Force is more difficult to measure. The set should be: To weigh (by balancing forces) with standard masses easily measures the mass of an unknown object. To calibrate an elastic device (spring or load cell) in units of force (including weight), in newtons, is a more difficult process. Gene.
[USMA:11332] Re: Mass or weight
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bill Potts wrote: Gene Mechtly wrote: And thanks, Joe, for your "here here" ... Which should, of course, have been "hear hear." Blame that error on me, Bill. Joe might have written the correct "hear hear" and I failed to quote his spelling accurately. My only excuse is that the phonetics are the same for both spellings. (not true for French "metre" and U.S. "meter" of course) Gene.
[USMA:11333] Re: Mass or weight
Gene: It was Joe's error, which you reproduced. I refrained from commenting until I saw it being propagated. g George Bernard Shaw would probably have excused both of you. He hated the inconsistencies of English spelling. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gene Mechtly Sent: February 27, 2001 12:29 To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:11332] Re: Mass or weight On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bill Potts wrote: Gene Mechtly wrote: And thanks, Joe, for your "here here" ... Which should, of course, have been "hear hear." Blame that error on me, Bill. Joe might have written the correct "hear hear" and I failed to quote his spelling accurately. My only excuse is that the phonetics are the same for both spellings. (not true for French "metre" and U.S. "meter" of course) Gene.
[USMA:11334] Re: Fwd: Symbols for SI Prefixes (fwd)
I concur. I would propose that the CGPM adopt u as at least an alternate symbol for micro. There would still remain the problem (on Latin keyboards) with the symbol for ohm, however. To solve that problem, I propose Oh. If Ohm is adopted as a symbol, it would be the only three letter symbol; Om runs the risk of being mistaken for zero meters (though context should clearly prevent that). Jim "Joseph B. Reid" wrote: There is a support for da or D for deca, h or H for hecto, and k or K for kilo, for at least a trial period, Why not they give a lower case English letter for micro instead of "". This will complete the cycle with upper case letters for more than 1 and lower case letters for less than 1. International Standard ISO 2955 recommends "u" when the Greek mu is not available. Why not use u all the time for micro-? Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071 -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:11336] Symbols for SI Prefixes (fwd)
Jim, I hope you pass your recommendation on to Barry Taylor with a request that it be placed on the CCU agenda for 2001 April 19 and 20. Gene. .. On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, James R. Frysinger wrote: I concur. I would propose that the CGPM adopt u as at least an alternate symbol for micro. There would still remain the problem (on Latin keyboards) with the symbol for ohm, however. To solve that problem, I propose Oh. If Ohm is adopted as a symbol, it would be the only three letter symbol; Om runs the risk of being mistaken for zero meters (though context should clearly prevent that). ...
[USMA:11337] Re: measuring mass
At 11:59 2/27/01 -0700, you wrote: I guess to be more precise, we could say that the grain elevators infer the mass by measuring the weight. It's hard (impossible?) to measure mass directly. You spin the unknown mass around a point at a set speed, and the centripetal force needed to make the unknown mass follow the curved path is a measure of the mass. A balance beam also measures mass by comparing it with a known mass.
[USMA:11338] Re: Mass NOT Easily Measured
John Tauxe wrote in USMA 11327: Well, my note about not being able to measure mass generated some discussion, alsmost all of it identifying the balance as a way of measuring mass. I still disagree. At 13:11 2001-02-27 -0600, Gene Mechtly wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, John Tauxe wrote: I contend that mass can only be inferred by adjusting the weight by the force of local gravity. On the balance, you are comparing weights in the same gravity field, so the gravity field for both cancels out, and you can in effect compare the masses directly. Of course, the comparison must be made to a standard mass. And how was that standard mass arrived at without weighing it in a gravity field? Ah - the 1000 cm3 volume of pure water. But again, there you are measuring a volume, not a mass. Show me a device that can measure mass under zero gravity and I'll admit that mass can be measured. - John _ John Tauxe, PhD, PEvoice: 505.662.0707 ext 15 Neptune and Company fax: 505.662.0500 1505 15th St. Suite B mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Los Alamos, NM 87544-3063 LANL mailstop M969 ___ http://www.neptuneandco.com/~jtauxe _ Our standard of mass is the master Kilogram, which is preserved with all precautions. It was constructed to have the mass of one decimetre cubed atwater at 4C. All other kilogram standards have been prepared by comparison with the master (or prototype) Kilogram. The comparison could theoretically be made anywhere: at sea level, on Mount Everest, on the moon. You are right that the weights of the two standards are being compared, but if the weights on the balance are equal, then the masses are equal, even though the ratio between mass and weight depends on the local acceleration due to gravity. The mass of an object is constant, the weight varies with location. Under zero gravity the only test of mass would be the measurement of the acceleration produced by a standard force, a most difficult procedure. It also raises the problem of standardizing the force. I think you suffer from the engineering tradition of considering the pound-force as a basic unit. An engineer wrote to the Globe and Mail that in going metric Canada was changing from using a system based on weight to one based on mass. He admitted that he would expect to get more butter in a pound in Denver than he would in Toronto, although the difference would be negible. Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:11340] Re: Off Topic
Yes, G.B.S. asked 'how does one pronounce ghoti?' Duncan -Original Message- From: Bill Potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 27, 2001 16:03 Subject: [USMA:11333] Re: Mass or weight Gene: It was Joe's error, which you reproduced. I refrained from commenting until I saw it being propagated. g George Bernard Shaw would probably have excused both of you. He hated the inconsistencies of English spelling. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gene Mechtly Sent: February 27, 2001 12:29 To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:11332] Re: Mass or weight On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bill Potts wrote: Gene Mechtly wrote: And thanks, Joe, for your "here here" ... Which should, of course, have been "hear hear." Blame that error on me, Bill. Joe might have written the correct "hear hear" and I failed to quote his spelling accurately. My only excuse is that the phonetics are the same for both spellings. (not true for French "metre" and U.S. "meter" of course) Gene.
[USMA:11344] Re: Public Law Ex. Order (fwd)
In my first reply, I should have mentioned that the 1998 Federal Register entry on SI is, indeed, available at http://metric1.org/dldocs.htm. It actually resides on the NIST Physics site, but that's transparent to the SI Navigator user. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gene Mechtly Sent: February 27, 2001 13:59 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:11339] Re: Public Law Ex. Order (fwd) -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:57:58 -0600 (CST) From: Gene Mechtly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andy Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Public Law Ex. Order Andy, I'll first see if documentation of the Law Exec. Order are linked from Bill Pott's Web Site www.metric1.org. If they are posted in PDF format, they should be easy to download and print. I'm almost certain they are posted in the Federal Register. Please expect to hear more from me if not from us (USMA). Gene. ... On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Andy Johnson wrote: Sure, Gene, load me up. Tell me what to do. I'll give it a try. Many of Jebs pals listen to my show each day. I might be able to light a fire under some of his buddies. Thanks. Andy --- Gene Mechtly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy, An Executive Order by President Bush (the elder) directs departments in the Executive Branch to implement the U.S. Public Law favoring SI for trade and commerce in the U.S. Do you have copies of the Law, and the Order? If not, I'll dig out Web sources for you. Jeb Bush might be able to persuade President Bush (the younger) to see that his father's Executive Order is enforced, or to issue his own presidential order which could be even more favorable for metrication. This might be an issue for you to raise with all the candidates for the next governship of Florida. Are you interested? Gene Mechtly cc: U.S. Metric Association.
[USMA:11345] Inertial balance (Re: Re: measuring mass)
One can also make an inertial balance. One design would be a pan supported by two hacksaw blades standing on edge and thus parallel to each other. One end of the pair of blades is clamped to an "immovable" object and the other end of the pair is clamped to the pan, with one blade on each end of the pan and overhanging a table edge (for example). Known masses are placed in the pan and the period of oscillation is measured for each. A calibration curve allows determination of other masses in that range. Keeping the blades rigidly clamped at each end forces each to assume an "ess" shape in one direction and then the other, so the pan does not rotate as it sways from side to side. It's a lot of fun to watch and is, perhaps, more cute than elegant. Nonetheless, this is not unlike the construction of some oscillators used for timing and frequency calibrations. Jim On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Karl G. Ruling wrote: At 11:59 2/27/01 -0700, you wrote: I guess to be more precise, we could say that the grain elevators infer the mass by measuring the weight. It's hard (impossible?) to measure mass directly. You spin the unknown mass around a point at a set speed, and the centripetal force needed to make the unknown mass follow the curved path is a measure of the mass. A balance beam also measures mass by comparing it with a known mass. -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:11346] Re: Public Law Ex. Order (fwd)
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bill Potts wrote: ... That particular document isn't currently in the Downloadable Documents section (http://metric1.org/dldocs.htm), Bill, my IE browser could not even locate metric1 a few minutes ago, so I am going directly to the Federal Register for 1988 in a search for Public Law 100-418. I'll give you the URL as soon as I know it. (By the way, the possessive of Bill Potts is Bill Potts', Bill Pott's is the possessive of Bill Pott.) That, definitely was my error, Bill. I do know the correct form Potts' for the possessive form. Thank you for continuing to promote SI Navigator. You are welcome, but why is IE unable to find it? Gene.
[USMA:11347] Need help (Re: Russian Air Launch web site)
Hello All, I am having difficulties with the Russian Air Launch web site. I tried to open this page on it (http://www.airlaunch.ru/english/news/news.htm), but all I got was a blank white screen with the word "Done" indicated on the task bar at the bottom of the screen. Could someone e-mail me each of the English pages on the site (sending the page itself rather than just the page link)? Besides the "News Media" page, none of the other pages on the Air Launch web site will open for me. We may be able to support Air Launch launches at the Poker Flat Research Range here in Alaska (An-124 aircraft have landed at the nearby Fairbanks International Airport, so we can accomodate this huge aircraft). Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Jason
[USMA:11350] Fw: [ukma] New Website
- Original Message - From: "Luke Nicolaides" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Ukma (E-mail)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 2001-02-27 04:18 Subject: [ukma] New Website I've just put together a website. It can be found at www.bigfoot.com/~metric_maverick. I'm trying to register it with search engines, I've filled in a form at Download.com, but I'm not quiet sure how this is going. On the subject of going to Paris to see the weights, I'm certainly interested, especially if we can make it a day out (i.e. travel on Eurostar and have lunch somewhere nice). By the way, Michael Fish said Scotland will have 18cm of snow today and didn't give any Farenheight temps. I think a few e-mails congratulating him are called for. Luke
[USMA:11348] Fw: Tell us a little little story. [Yahoo! Clubs: Metric America]
- Original Message - From: "downtobusiness" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 2001-02-27 00:35 Subject: Tell us a little little story. [Yahoo! Clubs: Metric America] Find some little success and tell us about it. Find one site on the internet, persuade them to do weather in C. Find one weather guy somewhere and persaude him to mention metric. Tell us about little successes, even very tiny little successes. We need to keep on inching forward--oops. You know what we mean. - DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! - You have chosen to receive messages from "Metric America" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/metricamerica/bbsfrp?action=rtid=metricamerica sid=12177109mid=980 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/metricamerica/config/change_mb_list Return to "Metric America": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/metricamerica -- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=millitesla.g roupID=metricamerica.groupType=.code=kqkKEmys7C
[USMA:11352] measuring mass - impossible?
You all are missing my point. Let's see, how can I make myself more clear...? Mass itself cannot be measured directly, it can only be inferred by the behavior of a mass undergoing acceleration. None of the schemes proposed here (the balance, the calibrated oscillation -- though that is clever and would work in zero gravity) measure the mass directly. The balance compares the weights of two (or more) objects. If they exhibit the same weight, then they must have the same mass. Still the mass itself has not been measured, it has only been compared to a standard. (And whether that standard was water or an alloy is irrelevant to this discussion.) The oscillator (essentially a mass on a spring) also does not measure mass directly. What is measured is the period of the oscillation. Again, this can be compared to a standard, but the mass is not being measured. I think it's kind of neat that mass cannot be measured. No one need be defensive about this! - John P.S. I'll have to retract my statement "Show me a device that can measure mass under zero gravity and I'll admit that mass can be measured.", since the oscillator works, though still does not measure the mass.
[USMA:11351] RE: Mass or weight
The word is "mass that box." It's been used in American textbooks for many
years, though some traditionalists don't like it.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So we find it hard to separate mass and weight. Since when is this new?
We need to get this figured out. We need a linguist or somebody
with brains
to invent a word , a verb both transitive and intransitive, parallel
to "weigh" to give the set:
weigh weight
mass
Then we will have:
"That box weighs 7067 newtons."
"That box es 721 kilograms."
"Weigh that box."
"Xxxx that box."
"The weight of that box is 7067 newtons."
"The mass of that box is 721 kilograms."
The verb and the noun can have different roots.
Does any language have such a word?
Some have said the verb is "mass" which gives:
"That box masses 721 kilograms."
"Mass that box."
Hey, everybody, what is the word?
Robert Bushnell
[USMA:11349] Re: Public Law Ex. Order (fwd)
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Bill Potts wrote: That particular document isn't currently in the Downloadable Documents section (http://metric1.org/dldocs.htm), but I can add it if anyone can give me the URL. Bill and Andy, The postings of the Federal Register range from 1996 through 2001, so the Public Law we seek is not yet posted at the FR Web Site. However, the Law is recorded in the FR on paper, I'm certain, as "The Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of August 1988 [Public Law (PL) 100-418." This citation is from NIST SP 811, Guide for the Use of SI. I'll photocopy the actual document from our Reference Library and Fax it to you Andy, if you do not have the FR in Jacksonville. Do you have easy access to the Federal Register in Jacksonville? I'll do the same for the Executive Order 12770 by President Bush (the elder) issued in July 1991, if necessary. Gene.
[USMA:11353] Re: Public Law Ex. Order (fwd)
I wrote: Thank you for continuing to promote SI Navigator. Gene Mechtly replied: You are welcome, but why is IE unable to find it? My own IE finds it every time. Either form (http://metric1.org [preferred form] or www.metric1.org) should bring it up with no trouble. Since I established my account with Verio, there may have been a couple of outages on the server, but they are extremely rare. If you are talking about finding it, using a search engine, I have recently resubmitted the URL to the major search engines. The lead time for them to add it to their database can run into weeks. Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
[USMA:11354] Re: measuring mass - impossible?
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, John Tauxe wrote: ... Mass itself cannot be measured directly, it can only be inferred by the behavior of a mass undergoing acceleration. John, Would you be satisfied with electrodeposition (transfer of mass by a calibrated electrochemical process) as "direct measurement of mass"? At least tell us what would satisfy you as the necessary and sufficient requirements for qualification as a "direct measurement" of mass or of any physical quantity if not comparison with a standard for that particular quantity. Gene.
[USMA:11355] RE: Fw: [ukma] New Website
John: Someone needs to tell Luke that a bar is not SI (in addition to correcting his definition of it). Also, his spelling of Fahrenheit needs a little work. g Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of kilopascal Sent: February 27, 2001 14:56 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:11350] Fw: [ukma] New Website - Original Message - From: "Luke Nicolaides" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Ukma (E-mail)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 2001-02-27 04:18 Subject: [ukma] New Website I've just put together a website. It can be found at www.bigfoot.com/~metric_maverick. I'm trying to register it with search engines, I've filled in a form at Download.com, but I'm not quiet sure how this is going. On the subject of going to Paris to see the weights, I'm certainly interested, especially if we can make it a day out (i.e. travel on Eurostar and have lunch somewhere nice). By the way, Michael Fish said Scotland will have 18cm of snow today and didn't give any Farenheight temps. I think a few e-mails congratulating him are called for. Luke
[USMA:11356] Re: Mass Easily Measured
At 15:17 2001-02-27 -0600, Gene Mechtly wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, John Tauxe wrote: ... I contend that mass can only be inferred by adjusting the weight by the force of local gravity. ... By what *procedure* do you "adjust the weight by the force of local gravity"? F=MA, or, rather, M = F/A -- dividing by A (gravity) gives you the mass. Do you mean "Place various combinations of standard masses on the balance pan until equilibrium is attained?" No. All you have done is demonstrated that the weights (and therefore the masses, assuming that gravity is locally constant) are equal. You have not measured the mass. On the balance, you are comparing weights in the same gravity field, so the gravity field for both cancels out, and you can in effect compare the masses directly. Of course, the comparison must be made to a standard mass. If you change the words "comparing weights" to "comparing masses" we are in agreement, since standard masses are physical objects, but "weights" are forces of gravity which can not be seen or touched. Weights are perhaps not seen, but definitely touched, and certainly measured. Mass is an intrinsic property of an object. Do you accept SI as defined by CGPM declarations and ISO definitions? If so, "weights" are forces; not physical objects. Right. Weights are forces, not intrisic properties of objects. And how was that standard mass arrived at without weighing it in a gravity field? Ah - the 1000 cm3 volume of pure water. But again, there you are measuring a volume, not a mass. The international prototype of the kilogram is a cylinder of platinum-iridium alloy which was constructed to approximate the mass of 1000 cm3 of pure water as a convenient relationship. Subsequently, the cylinder itself became and still is today the standard of mass in SI, not 1000 cm3 of pure water at a specified temperature. Yes, yes. I've been to Sveres to visit the holy shrine, too. No matter what the standard actually is - the point is that we are only comparing masses to the standard by comparing their weights. - John
[USMA:11359] RE: Mass or weight
I'm one of those people who object to "mass" as a verb. However, English is a language in continual transition, so it may become more acceptable in the future. Jim On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Dennis Brownridge wrote: The word is "mass that box." It's been used in American textbooks for many years, though some traditionalists don't like it. -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:11361] twips
Visual Basic, I learned, does not use SI units of length. It uses a twip, which is one twentieth of one point. There being 72 points to an inch, a twip is 1/20 of 1/72 of 25.4 mm, or 17.64 um. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA (915)-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:11364] Re: measuring mass - impossible?
John Tauxe wrote in USMA 11352: Still the mass itself has not been measured, it has only been compared to a standard. What is measurement? Is it not comparison with a standard? Joseph B. Reid 17 Glebe Road West TorontoM5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:11365] Fw: Italy-news February 27-01
Italy news is using SI in all languages. Since you guys wrote them I have not seen non-SI on their page. ITALY-NEWS NEWSLETTER 27 FEBBRAIO 2001 http://www.italy-news.net L'AGENZIA TURISTICA " KOKI VIAGGI "in collaborazione con Italy-news organizza per voi un favoloso Tour riservato ai nostri lettori in alcune citt pi caratteristiche del Bel Paese: Milano, Firenze, Venezia, Torino e altre ancora. Clicca qui sotto http://www.italy-news.net/Promozione/index.html KOKI TRAVELS, specializing in land tours of Italy, in collaboration with Italy-news, has organized a special trip for readers of our newsletters and visitors to our site. It is a fabulous tour in the most characteristic cities of northern Italy: Milan, Florence, Venice, Turin and more.Click here below http://www.italy-news.net/Promozione_english/index.html Caro lettore, se vuoi modificare la lingua e il formato del testo che ricevi, clicca qui sotto http://www.italy-news.net/form/add.php3 Dear Reader: To change the language of the text or the format in which you receive it, click here http://www.italy-news.net/form_eng/add.php3 Querido lector,elige aqu leer el boletn de noticias directamente en su correo electronico o en el website y tambien el lenguaje http://www.italy-news.net/form_esp/add.php3 == Leitor brasileiro, voc encontrar a pgima em portugus em http://www.italy-news.net/SpecialeNews/Newsletter_port27.php3 == ITALIANO http://www.italy-news.net MASSACRO NOVI,MAURO: ERIKA MI HA COSTRETTO "Erika mi ha puntato un coltello alla gola e mi ha detto, dammi una prova d' amore, accoltella mia madre".Questa la ricostruzione della tragica sera di mercoled scorso fatta da Mauro che ha, inoltre, precisato: "Ho dato una sola coltellata".Il ragazzo ha permesso il ritrovamento del secondo coltello: era in un campo a un centinaio di metri dalla casa della famiglia De Nardo. Il Gip Castellani ha intanto convalidato il fermo per i due giovani, che restano quindi in carcere, anche se con libert di colloqui. Erika non potr incontrare il padre. ESPANOL http://www.italy-news.net/index_esp.php3 MASACRE EN NOVI LIGURE. DICE MAURO: ERIKA ME OBLIG "Erika me puso un cuchillo en la garganta y me dijo dme una prueba de amor, acuchilla a mi madre". Esta es la reconstruccin de la trgica noche del pasado mircoles hecha por Mauro que adems precis: "Le di una sola cuchillada". El muchacho permiti hallar el segundo cuchillo, que estaba en un campo retirado unos cien metros de la casa de la familia De Nardo. El Gip Castellani confirm la detencin de los dos jvenes en la crcel, aunque con libertad de coloquios. Erika no podr entrevistarse con su padre. ENGLISH http://www.italy-news.net/index_eng.php3 OF NOVI LIGURE MASSACRE MAURO SAYS: ERIKA FORCED ME TO DO IT. "Erika aimed the knife at my throat and told me to give her proof of my love. She demanded, "Stab my mother!" This is the reconstruction of the tragical night of last Wednesday made by Erika's boyfriend Mauro, who also pointed out, "I stabbed her only once". The young man's admission allowed the recovery of the second knife; it was found in a field 100 meters from De Nardo family home. Preliminary Judge Castellani confirmed the arrest of the two teens, who remain in prison, with the freedom of meeting. Erika is prohibited from seeing her father. http://www.italy-news.net/form/unsign.php3 Per cancellarti http://www.italy-news.net/form_eng/unsign.php3 To unsubscribe http://www.italy-news.net/form_esp/unsign.php3 Para borrarse http://www.italy-news.net
[USMA:11366] RE: Fw: [ukma] New Website
Yes. Even though Fahrenheit is wrong, let's spell it right. Duncan -Original Message- From: Bill Potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 27, 2001 18:29 Subject: [USMA:11355] RE: Fw: [ukma] New Website John: Also, his spelling of Fahrenheit needs a little work. g Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
