[USMA:11526] Re: NPT vs. PG
On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:28:33 -0500 , Adrian Jadic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This refers to electrical pipe and not industrial plumbing pipe. I beleive it is a lot easier to change the standard for electrical installations, as these ones are usually either installed new or just removed and never have to be partially replaced because they leak. The electrical industry is already dominated by IEC standards as they have proven to be superior to the NEMA ones. They must be moving "to the next level" by upgrading the standard. Plumbing is different though. Maintenance work would become a nightmare of adaptors etc. As much as I would like to see a replacement I doubt there would be one. The only way, would be to invent a totally new plumbing system with different sizes and/or attachments which is superior to the existing one. If the UK can convert to a metric pipe system, I don't see why other countries (including European) should have so much difficulty. -- Chris KEENAN UK Metrication Association: http://www.metric.org.uk/ UK Correspondent, US Metric Association
[USMA:11527] In(ch)decency by the Japanese comp. AIWA
To-day I was in a shop where TV's are sold and I saw the TV-SE2130 from the Japanese company AIWA. On the box the diameter of the screen was expressed as 21 inches (Dutch and English), pouces, pollici, pulgadas and Zoll. NO metric in sight. A sticker on the TV screen said 21", again with NO metric at all. *#@$+%^@*!!! Japan is supposedly a metric nation and what do her companies do? They stab us in the back! This is the kind of thing that is being reported to the BWMA. However, and this would always be omitted by the BWMA: the shop had stuck information to the TV too and there was the diameter of the screen in cm, *without* inches. I am going to find the AIWA website for an e-mail address. Then I will send them a protest message see below). Of course, if the metric-only directive had been in force, AIWA could not have indulged in such antics. This abuse is one more reason to refuse ANY further extension in the future. I wonder whether AIWA was part of the coalition, I think they were. Han Sir, To-day I was in a TV-shop in the Dutch city of Nijmegen and I saw one of your TV's on sale, an SE2130. On the box the diameter of the screen was expressed as 21 inches (Dutch and English), pollici, pulgadas, pouces and Zoll. A sticker on the screen also said 21". The shop had also information stuck to that TV but they gave the screen size in the units we really use for measuring TV screens, in centimeters only. Please, explain to me why AIWA wants Europeans and other non-American peoples to adopt American measuring units. Isn't Japan, where your company comes from, a metric nation? I have never understood why any screen size should be expressed in this medieval unit called 'inch' anyway. Most English speaking nations have adopted the metric system by now. Please metricate your boxes, stickers and instructions, by replacing the inches in English by the diameter in cm with inches in brackets, like 54 cm (21") and in all the other languages by metric sizes only. No-one wants inches here. Yours sincerely, Han Maenen The Netherlands [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:11529] pressure on NASA to go all SI
The message title "NASA SI pressure" sounded wonderful, as if there was pressure being applied to NASA to use SI only! But, alas, it was only a missive involving the use of SI units OF pressure at NASA. Darn. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA (915)-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:11530] Re: USMA digest 482
It's called S-A-L-E-S, and has nothing to do with S-I. "U.S. Metric Association" wrote: USMA Digest 482 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: NASA SI pressure by Gene Mechtly [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) CNN leads with metric on ship sizes by "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Fwd: CNN leads with metric on ship sizes by "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Lehrer News Hour, 2001/03/10 @ 6 minutes after the hour by "Norman Werling" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: NPT vs. PG by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) In(ch)decency by the Japanese comp. AIWA by "Han Maenen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: NPT vs. PG by "Han Maenen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:11522] Re: NASA SI pressure Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:21:13 -0600 (CST) From: Gene Mechtly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Metric Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... shown on NASA TV. I saw the crew going back into the air lock. Pressure in the suits and air lock was in psi. As 7 psi, 9 psi, 14.7 psi. As you seem to have found a path to NASA, perhaps you could bring this disgraceful and, I say, illegal use to their attention. Bob, Responding to your nudge, I downgraded psi *indirectly* in my recent e-mail to NASA's Chief Engineer. Let's hope he acts according to U.S. Law and NASA Policy by actively promoting SI and limiting waivers. Gene. Subject: [USMA:11523] CNN leads with metric on ship sizes Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:07:21 -0500 From: "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attached is a gif image provided by CNN at http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/sub.collision/session1.html regarding the Greenville/Ehime Maru collision. The image is only a bit over 10 kiB in size so most people should have no trouble displaying it inside Netscape or the like. The image shows the relative sizes of the two ships and gives their length over all (LOA) in meters and then in feet. Jim -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789 Subject: [USMA:11524] Fwd: CNN leads with metric on ship sizes Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:23:18 -0500 From: "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] This time, I'll actually attach the file. (Sorry, I've been doing 10 rounds with my ISP people and I must have gotten distracted.) Jim -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: CNN leads with metric on ship sizes Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:07:21 -0500 From: "James R. Frysinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "U.S. Metric Association" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attached is a gif image provided by CNN at http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/sub.collision/session1.html regarding the Greenville/Ehime Maru collision. The image is only a bit over 10 kiB in size so most people should have no trouble displaying it inside Netscape or the like. The image shows the relative sizes of the two ships and gives their length over all (LOA) in meters and then in feet. Jim -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789 --- -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644 Name: popup.greenville.size.gif popup.greenville.size.gifType: GIF Image (image/gif) Encoding: base64 Subject: [USMA:11525] Lehrer News Hour, 2001/03/10 @ 6 minutes after the hour Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:33:23 -0500 From: "Norman Werling" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: "US Metric Assn." [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lehrer News Hour: This evening at about 6 or 7 minutes after the hour, a reporter kept on referring to a 3-mile zone in Kosovo. I cannot believe for a
[USMA:11531] Re: BWMA distortions. Was: Re: Re: NPT vs. PG
At 11:32 +0100 01/03/9, Han Maenen wrote: (Re: USMA 11514 by me and 11515 by Louis) John, Louis and all, I got this stuff from their Yardstick about the trash-ditional units supposed to be used in France: http://members.aol.com/footrule/ystwob.htm The Yardstick, Number 2 (April 1996) -- Part B TRADITIONAL MEASURES ABROAD France Here is a partial list of non-metric measures still used in France, sent to us by Alan Harrison, to whom many thanks. Knot (noeud) for speed of boats Yes , planes km/h is more and more used and wind never ; always km/h Nautical mile (mille marin) yes Nautical league (lieue marine), i.e. 3 nautical miles never Hand (paume) for the height of a horse ** Is it 7.5 or 10 cm, by chance? never heard, but I am not fond of horse races... Carat (carat) **This is the metric carat. yes - only for jewelry ***The standard railway gauge is still referred to in feet and inches by railway engineers, never ** The French use centimeters more than they use millimeters, but I have usually seen this gauge expressed as 1435 mm. Engineers use the millimeter anyway. lay people usually say "1 meter 435" Degree of angle. Grades exist (1 right angle = 100 grades) but they are used much less frequently than degrees. right League (lieue). The newspaper "La Charente Libre" on Friday 22.2.96 described a village as being less than two leagues from the nearest town: "Le village d'Antezant-la-Chapelle est ... moins de deux lieues de St. Jean d'Angly." "lieue" is sometimes used by writers, to give a feeling of ancient time. Nobody actually knows the value of a "lieue" Handmade leather gloves. The leather is measured for cutting out, using a foot ruler marked in inches, at a factory near Limoges (quoted on TV channel 3 on Saturday, 24 February). ** In this case they are right. The leather trade uses feet and inches. not totally right. I know this factory near Limoges (in fact these factories, in Saint Junien, a small city some 40 km south of Limoges, which produce about 40 % of the world production of handmade gloves - this is the cradle of my wife's family). Right, some "traditional" gloves, replicas of gloves made in 17/18th century, are made using rules marked with "pouces". All other gloves are based on forms measured in millimeters. It is also right that glove sizes use a strange systems (my wife always orders the "7 1/2" size). It could well be linked to "pouces". I will try to get more information. Louis
[USMA:11532] NASA ft ft/s
2001 March 10 NASA has done it again. The shuttle docked to the space station last night. They used feet and feet per second. No metric. The crews talked in feet. The public announcer used feet. The digital display in the control room of the approach showed feet:distance and speed: 402.5 and -5.13 with no units shown. The public announcer added the units in reading the numbers. Pity the poor Russian crew. NASA serves them badly. It seems that when NASA says they use SI they mean that somewhere in NASA they may use SI but they do not mean they use no inch-pound. Maybe we should have less talk of "Use SI" and instead say "Never use inch-pound." Or go another way. Say "Always use SI". Perhaps Congress should stop saying "SI is preferred" and say "Always use SI". Robert Bushnell
[USMA:11533] Re: NASA ft ft/s
NASA's "reason" (i.e., excuse) for this is that the STS program was designed in "English", before the big 1988 almost-conversion of the government. They claim it would be too costly to change all the software and training manuals to SI. Actually, to some extent, I'm sympathetic. I've been involved in detailed operating procedure revisions and test plan revisions for the Naval Nuclear Propulsion program and it really IS a tedious and error-risking event to change the way something is measured. Unless one has been involved in something of this scale, the magnitude of the job cannot be appreciated. I reckon that the scope of the STS program design and U.S. nuclear submarine design are comparable in extent and complexity. What really frosts my cake though is the adamant refusal of the PAOs at JSC to express all the units in SI in their press releases. There is absolutely no mission risk involved in doing that. That's one of the points I am making in the letter I'm about to reproduce and distribute, in response to the NASA IG's letter and NASA Administration's response. I'm sure they have filters at the JSC PAO office by now that automatically transfer my emails to the trash. Robert, please blow off steam at them about not -- at least -- converting those arcane units to SI so we can all understand them. A pointed question for them. If they use "statute [survey] miles" instead of "regular miles", then do they use "survey feet" (= [1200/3937] m) instead of "normal feet" (= 0.3048 m)? Sometimes they use nautical miles. How many nautical feet is that? ;-) Jim On Saturday 10 March 2001 1633, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2001 March 10 NASA has done it again. The shuttle docked to the space station last night. They used feet and feet per second. No metric. The crews talked in feet. The public announcer used feet. The digital display in the control room of the approach showed feet:distance and speed: 402.5 and -5.13 with no units shown. The public announcer added the units in reading the numbers. Pity the poor Russian crew. NASA serves them badly. It seems that when NASA says they use SI they mean that somewhere in NASA they may use SI but they do not mean they use no inch-pound. Maybe we should have less talk of "Use SI" and instead say "Never use inch-pound." Or go another way. Say "Always use SI". Perhaps Congress should stop saying "SI is preferred" and say "Always use SI". Robert Bushnell -- James R. Frysinger University/College of Charleston 10 Captiva Row Dept. of Physics and Astronomy Charleston, SC 2940766 George Street 843.225.0805Charleston, SC 29424 http://www.cofc.edu/~frysingj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cert. Adv. Metrication Specialist 843.953.7644
[USMA:11535] Re: NASA ft ft/s -- Off topic!
Yep! Flat and located half a meter below my navigator's knees, which may require arthroscopy and treatment someday. Jim Bill Potts wrote: Jim Frysinger wrote: Sometimes they use nautical miles. How many nautical feet is that? Do you get nautical feet when you finally get your sea legs? Bill Potts, CMS San Jose, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -- Metric Methods(SM) "Don't be late to metricate!" James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:11536] Re: NASA ft ft/s
In a message dated 2001-03-10 16:34:45 Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe we should have less talk of "Use SI" and instead say "Never use inch-pound." Or go another way. Say "Always use SI". Perhaps Congress should stop saying "SI is preferred" and say "Always use SI". Robert Bushnell Unfortunately, probably not this Congress, nor this President. I hope I am wrong. Carleton MacDonald
[USMA:11538] Re: Language barrier broken!
Dear Jim and All, I have interspersed some remarks. on 2001-02-23 00.12, James R. Frysinger at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great stuff, Pat. Thanks! Let me comment on a couple of things here, not meaning to detract from the material, but taking the occasion raised by the notes below. I am delighted that you have taken the trouble to do so. One of the strengths of the USMA list is the support we get here from our colleagues before we sally forth to attack our backward thinking neighbours. A pace to the Romans was two steps. This is what Joe Reid referred to as a "double pace", a "pace" to him (and you) being one step. Thus one thousand paces (= 2000 steps) in Latin evolved to the word "mile". I have responded to this issue elsewhere. In your temperature chart you include phase transitions for water. I would like to remind those on the list that those are no longer defining points. Pure water freezes very, very close to 0 and boils at normal atmospheric pressure very, very close to 100 on the Celsius scale, but the scale is defined based on the triple point of water and the size of the kelvin (thus on the zero point of the thermodynamic scale). You are right of course - it was sloppy writing on my part. Perhaps these are better words that make the point without the nuisance (to technophobes) of any technical qualifications. Some common temperatures are: The lowest air temperature ever recorded was 89 C Water freezes at about 0 C A normal human internal body temperature is about 37 C The highest air temperature ever recorded was 58 C Water boils at about 100 C That's a new version of the temperature ditty. I've been toying with "forty is scorchy" as a new line at the top of the old one, but then I end up with an odd number of lines. I, too, have played with this rhyme. I think I took the essence of it - the first four lines - from a posting by Dennis Brownridge. However, I had to add the last two lines to suit Australian conditions - it is often above 40C during summer, and sometimes (rarely) above 50C. Since I sent my last version to you, I have asked my wife, a professional musician, to look at it. After muttering strange words, like scansion and metre, she reduced it to this: Temperatures in degrees Celsius Zero's freezing, 10 is not, 20 pleasing 30 hot, 40 frying, 50 dying. I have recited this several times now and it is the most pleasing, rhythmically, of the versions that I have seen, and heard. Like all kids, I am inclined to overact outrageously when I get to '50 dying'.
[USMA:11537] Re: Deprecated hectare
Dear Joe and All, I have added some thoughts, below. on 2001-02-22 05.40, Joseph B. Reid at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gene Mechtly wrote in USMA 11065: On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Joseph B. Reid wrote: ... I predict a long life for the nautical mile, knot, and hectare. Your prediction might be realized, Joe, but I advocate meter squared (m2 as the simplified symbol) for the US, not hectare. Gene. Here it is not a question of symbols, but of numerical values; 1 ha = 10 000 m2. Increasing the number of digits in the area of a farm by 4 non-significant digits is not good practice, as well as being inconvenient. Further to the above, do you think you can persuade a farmer who has a quarter section to say that he has a farm of 647 000 m2? You won't have to convince them - they'll convince themselves when they come to know how easy it is to figure the cost of fertiliser or spray at x grams per square metre. It is so much easier than trying to calculate the amounts you need from x ozs. per square yard or even x lbs. per acre. The Australian experience was that farmers moved to metric measures surprisingly rapidly. The leading farmers realised the advantages of the new ways and they were well supported, largely by the sales staff from the supply companies. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia
[USMA:11539] RE: Language barrier broken!
Dear Joe, Paul, and All, I have interspersed some notes: on 2001-02-22 05.40, Joseph B. Reid at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Fardig wrote in USMA 11155: We need to work with NIST to create an alternative to those conversion cards, one that would be SI only and experientially based, eg "one meter is about one long step," etc. That is a bad example. Who can walk a kilometre in 1000 paces? The British army pace is 30 inches, or 5 feet for a double pace. That was the Roman army's pace also. 1000 double paces made the the miglia, or mile. Queen Elizabeth I lengthend the mile to 5280 feet to fit the Saxon furlong, 8 furlongs to the mile. Defence force personnel are trained to march with 750 millimetre paces at 120 beats per minute. This means that armies march at 90 metres per minute or 5.4 kilometres per hour. No doubt, experience has taught army officers that the army can only march at the pace of its slowest (smallest?) soldier. Curiously, most of us walk faster than an army can march. Most people walk at about 100 metres per minute. This means that you can go 1 kilometre in 10 minutes. It also means that you walk at about 6 kilometres per hour. Although your normal walking pace on a good road or footpath is about 100 m/min or 6 km/h you wont be able to keep this pace up in rough conditions. To work out the distance you can walk allow 4 km/h without a pack and reduce this to 2 km/h if you have a heavy pack. Without a pack, a fit walker should be able to easily walk 30 km in a day or about 15 km if you carry a pack thats about a quarter of your body mass. If youre walking without a pack in hilly country, experienced bush walkers suggest that you allow 20 minutes per kilometre plus 10 minutes for each 100 m rise in altitude. A better standard for the metre is the metric salute. Stretch out the right army fully and place the left hand against the left ear. The metre is the distance from the right finger tips and the left hand. One of the curiosities that I have found in investigating measurement systems is the useful ness of the old Babylonian and Egyptian cubit - the length from your elbow to the tip of your longest finger. I measure my cubit by placing my elbow on a table top and use a carpenter's rule to measure to the tip of my middle finger. For me my cubit measures about 495 mm, which I round to 500 mm for practical use - if necessary I allow for the odd 5 mm. My wife's cubit is about 450 mm so she has to allow for a greater error if she uses this approximation. A convenient measure for me is to place the tips of my two longest fingers together with my elbows pointing out to either side. My elbows are then one metre apart and I can, for example, use them to measure whether a piece of furniture will fit into a particular space. My wife allows for a space of 100 mm between her fingertips when she wants to estimate a distance of one metre. As a complete digression from the topic, I must tell you an associated story about this technique. Over dinner I explained the convenience of my two cubits equals one metre technique for furniture, to an opera singer friend who was about to move from one home to another. He was delighted with the technique and insisted that we supply him with a rule to measure his own cubit; there and then at the dining table. The following day we were passing a news stand that was adorned with magazines that featured young women in various degrees of undress. One of them had strategically placed her two hands to cover a portion of her generous chest. 'Ooh look,' said my friend, 'there's a lady measuring a metre!' Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia
