[USMA:17887] Fw: [ISO8601] ODP Listing Update and Nominations.
A lot of pages and sites about dates in general and ISO 8601, Han - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ISO 8601 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 2002-02-02 00:10 Subject: [ISO8601] ODP Listing Update and Nominations. [2002-Feb-01] The ISO 8601 listings on the Open Directory Project are as up to date as I can possibly make them. If I have missed a useful site, then please use the submission form to notify me of extra things to include. The Section has a 'Cool Site'. Currently this is noted as the Markus Kuhn site. However, there are several newer sites that I feel are very good sites. If no one here objects, or suggests anything better, then I propose to mark two sites as 'Cool Sites' to replace the site written by Markus Kuhn. The two nominations are: - The Best of Dates, The Worst of Dates - Gilbert Healton - The Mathematics of the ISO 8601 Calendar - R.H van Gent These sites deserve the award not just for being very well written documents, with plenty of useful links to further resources, but for also being written by authors who have been very pro-active in updating the information and the links to keep it fresh and up to date. Has anyone else found any useful links, or have any other nominations? Remember, to qualify as a 'Cool Site' the site has to give good information, be up to date, have a good layout, not contain broken HTML or scripts, and have links that are working. The site should be the best in its class. As ODP editor there is leeway to have either one or two 'Cool Sites' at any time, but no more than two. Visit: http://dmoz.org/Science/Reference/Standards/Individual_Standards/ISO_8601/ to see the complete list of sites, and to submit others. Cheers, Ian. mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.qsl.net/g1smd/ http://home.freeuk.net/g1smd/ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dstrange/y2k.htm http://dmoz.org/Science/Reference/Standards/Individual_Standards/ISO_8601/ ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/ham/misc/g1smd.zip ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/ [2002-02-01] .end
[USMA:17888] Re: Olympic Web Sites
Spam prevention. You should see the junk that builds up in my spamfilter kill file these days. Nat Just perused these sites, and I cannot find one e-mail address to the sports announcers. If someone can locate an address or addresses, please post to the group. Thanks! Gene Mechtly wrote: My local newspaper has published addresses of the following Web Sites for information on the 2002 Winter Olympics: www.saltlake2002.com (the official site) www.nbcolympics.com (NBC news and features) www.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/Olympics/2002 (Sports Illustrated CNN) www.sportsline.com/u/olympics/2002 (CBS reporting) www.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/index (ESPN reporting) www.sltrib.com (Salt Lake Tribune) www.wintersports2002.com (Desert News and KSL TV-radio) Let's find the names and e-mail addresses of sports commentators at each of these sites, and persuade them to use *SI Only* (or at least SI First)! Gene. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:17889] Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
James Freysinger wrote in USMA 17885: Joseph B. Reid wrote: James Freysinger wrote in USMA 17873: My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary gives 1892 as the date it [micron] was first used and interestingly it was one year later that the Mendenhall Order was published. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary dates birth of the micron as 1892 That's not terribly common for these dictionaries to agree on dates of word origins. I suppose then that the term micron was coined at some meeting, perhaps a CGPM meeting. Jim The first CGPM was in 1889 and the third meeting was in 1901. I think it is more likely than the micron was defined at a meeting of the CIPM (Comité International des Poids et Mesures). Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 TEL. 416-486-6071
[USMA:17890] HP Deskjet
Had a little fun purchasing an HP deskjet printer yesterday. I needed the cheapest thing for home, since most of the time I just read things off the screen anyway. A friend advised me to go one step up, and get a model with a larger print cartridge so I'm not constantly paying for new print cartridges. Stopping by the local Office Depot on a busy Saturday morning I noticed a bunch of 845C printers all specifying, in fine print, a 25 ml print cartridge. Did I ever have fun drilling the salesman, in a loud voice, which model took the 25 ml cartridge and which step-up model took the 50 ml cartridge! Finally purchased a 940C. Nat
[USMA:17891] Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
Joseph B. Reid wrote: James Freysinger wrote in USMA 17885: Joseph B. Reid wrote: James Freysinger wrote in USMA 17873: My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary gives 1892 as the date it [micron] was first used and interestingly it was one year later that the Mendenhall Order was published. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary dates birth of the micron as 1892 That's not terribly common for these dictionaries to agree on dates of word origins. I suppose then that the term micron was coined at some meeting, perhaps a CGPM meeting. Jim The first CGPM was in 1889 and the third meeting was in 1901. I think it is more likely than the micron was defined at a meeting of the CIPM (Comit International des Poids et Mesures). I think that you are probably right, Joe. That makes excellent sense. Thanks! Jim -- Metric Methods(SM) Don't be late to metricate! James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:17892] Re: HP Deskjet
2002-02-03 I wonder how many of the luddites out there would refer to these as 1 and 2 ounces. I know 50 mL is not 2 ounces exactly, but to the luddites, it doesn't matter. Just like Alcoholic beverages. The common FFU names don't equal the SI sizes either. Did the salesman have the urge to call them by something in FFU? I find it interesting when some people ask questions that require a dimensional answer, and I answer in metric. The usual response is What's that in FFU? Where FFU is a variety of terms used to describe English units. And my response is always: I don't know. Then these people go through all kinds of contortions trying to figure out the FFU equivalent of what I said. They even ask me if the answer they came up with is right, to which again I respond: I don't know. Some will even ask if I went to school in the US, and I answer yes, but inform them I flunked the English system. I further tell them when I went to Engineering School I was taught the metric system and for the first time understood measurements and have no problem with measurements now. I have isolated myself from FFU, and don't know it. Sometimes I will rub salt into the wound by inferring that those who claim to know FFU really don't and only parrot the unit names. Or, I will say I will not be like the masses and pretend to know FFU when I really don't. Most don't respond, but the look on their face speaks a thousand words. I don't need to be like Han, speaking FFU in FFU countries and metric elsewhere. That is not spreading the gospel. Plus, the 2 countries that Han visits (Britain and Ireland) are suppose to be metric. So he should never have to use FFU, even on their soil. You have to take a stand somewhere. John - Original Message - From: Nat Hager III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 11:10 Subject: [USMA:17890] HP Deskjet Had a little fun purchasing an HP deskjet printer yesterday. I needed the cheapest thing for home, since most of the time I just read things off the screen anyway. A friend advised me to go one step up, and get a model with a larger print cartridge so I'm not constantly paying for new print cartridges. Stopping by the local Office Depot on a busy Saturday morning I noticed a bunch of 845C printers all specifying, in fine print, a 25 ml print cartridge. Did I ever have fun drilling the salesman, in a loud voice, which model took the 25 ml cartridge and which step-up model took the 50 ml cartridge! Finally purchased a 940C. Nat
[USMA:17893] RE: HP Deskjet
Did the salesman have the urge to call them by something in FFU? No. I was the buyer and he was the seller. Money talks. I have isolated myself from FFU, and don't know it. I'm fairly isolated too. Between the physics courses I occassionally teach (where textbooks are all metric), research proposals I constantly write (where submission rules specify SI even though not always enforced), or products that I purchase which are hard SI (few but growing), I always look for a convenient excuse to hide behind and then use hard SI. If questioned I act dumb, and don't make a big deal out of it. Nat
[USMA:17894] the coming SI healthcare incident
kilopascal wrote: Sometimes I will rub salt into the wound by inferring that those who claim to know FFU really don't and only parrot the unit names. A classic WOMBAT instance of this is the teaspoonful or the tablespoonful.. God knows what the parents of America use to measure their children's liquid medication in response to directions of giving one teaspoonful or one tablespoonful! It could be a souvenir coffee spoon from Texas, or it could be a soup ladle. Healthcare is now in the spotlight for accuracy, and medication errors are the hottest topic in healthcare these past few years, but no one in officialdom has yet dealt with the elimination of non-metric units in healthcare. I suppose this is so because, in terms of publicity, there hasn't been a healthcare equivalent of the Mars Orbiter disaster. I have never asked the question of an individual, but if you were drill someone on how much a teaspoonful contains, the subject with realize that (s)he has never thought of such a measurement in exact terms, and without a basic understanding of SI, would not be able to point to mL . This may not be critical when measuring an oral suspension of amoxicillin, but it would be critical in measuring a liquid such as digoxin oral solution for a pediatric cardiac problem. True, that product comes with its own calibrated dropper (actually calibrated in milligrams), but some pharmacy somewhere will err and dispense it without the dropper and an eighth of a teaspoonful instruction, which is very unlikely, but not impossible. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:17895] Re: the coming SI healthcare incident
2002-02-03 Paul, Last Tuesday, our parent company's insurance Manager came to visit us and to discuss changes to our insurance policy. The letter sent out ahead of time listed a variety of reasons why our insurance costs have increased 60 % over the past year and why all our co-payments and deductibles must increase, while our coverage must decrease. I couldn't help think after reading your posting how much of those increases are caused by paying off lawsuits brought on by wrongful deaths or injury pertaining to mis-applied drug dosages. It seems the government will do nothing to intervene and demand consistency in measurements and standards because of the perceived idea that it will be interfering in the industries right to manage their own business. And as long as the public doesn't seem to mind the loss of a loved one, or paying more out of their pockets for medical care the situation will never change. Or is it the lawyers who make millions on such cases telling the government not to change anything? A pharmacist should resist the temptation to use teaspoons and tablespoons to describe dosages and strictly use millilitres. Even if the public claims not to know it. If someone uses a teaspoon or tablespoon and overdoses, then the pharmacist is responsible for the error. If the pharmacist gives the patient a dosage and even a cheap calibrated container to administer that dose, and the patient chooses to use something else, then they are responsible. I'm tired of paying more for health care and getting less. And fearful that someday I might go to a hospital for care or be given a prescription for a drug that is wrong and end up permanently injured or dead. I don't want it to be me. But, I'm just one person fighting a nation of luddites. Where do we go from here? John - Original Message - From: Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 12:32 Subject: [USMA:17894] the coming SI healthcare incident kilopascal wrote: Sometimes I will rub salt into the wound by inferring that those who claim to know FFU really don't and only parrot the unit names. A classic WOMBAT instance of this is the teaspoonful or the tablespoonful.. God knows what the parents of America use to measure their children's liquid medication in response to directions of giving one teaspoonful or one tablespoonful! It could be a souvenir coffee spoon from Texas, or it could be a soup ladle. Healthcare is now in the spotlight for accuracy, and medication errors are the hottest topic in healthcare these past few years, but no one in officialdom has yet dealt with the elimination of non-metric units in healthcare. I suppose this is so because, in terms of publicity, there hasn't been a healthcare equivalent of the Mars Orbiter disaster. I have never asked the question of an individual, but if you were drill someone on how much a teaspoonful contains, the subject with realize that (s)he has never thought of such a measurement in exact terms, and without a basic understanding of SI, would not be able to point to mL . This may not be critical when measuring an oral suspension of amoxicillin, but it would be critical in measuring a liquid such as digoxin oral solution for a pediatric cardiac problem. True, that product comes with its own calibrated dropper (actually calibrated in milligrams), but some pharmacy somewhere will err and dispense it without the dropper and an eighth of a teaspoonful instruction, which is very unlikely, but not impossible. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:17897] Measurement in America
Dear All, I'm not too sure my question has its place on this list but I would like to know how the Indians of America used to measure, dimensions, wood, land ... before the European came into America ? Anyone could help me ? Best regards from Paris and many thanks Marie-Ange Cotteret
[USMA:17898] Re: Democracy and metrication
At 01:51 PM 2/2/2002 +1100, Pat Naughtin wrote: Could you elaborate on the 'financial benefit (s) in a reasonable time' that were relevant to your particular business. I wish I could answer this with lots of wonderful pro-metrication ammunition, but I cannot. In fact, I have been asked on a couple of occasions to write an article for Metric Today about my company's metrication efforts, but I have not done so because I am not sure I can say much that will help the effort. There are numerous reasons why my company's metrication effort is not particularly useful for showing the benefits of metrication. (1) We started metricating when we were a very small company (about five employees, perhaps $800k of sales or 2,500 units in a year). This means that we did not have a huge amount of training to do (three of the five were technical employees), we did not have a huge inventory of parts and drawings and specifications that needed conversion (hard or soft), and we did not have a large customer base that we would irritate by changing product specs. (2) We started metricating at a time we were switching from one product line to another, and the older (non-metric) product line died within a couple of years. (3) Our products are not particularly dimensional, in the sense of lumber or pipe or steel or fasteners. Where dimensions are critical (connectors), they are not within the purview of the user. When one of our terminals is mounted in an instrument panel, it is always a made-to-order hole, and we provide the mounting hardware. (4) Where dimensions do come into play (in the internal mechanics of our products), most of it is entirely internal to QSI. It matters not to the customer whether we mount a display with metric or colloquial fasteners, since they neither see nor use the fasteners. (5) The electronics industry has always been somewhat more metric than older industries, and has always been entirely metric in its fundamental measures (e.g., volt, watt, amp, ohm). While many of the mechanical aspects of electronic components has been colloquial (e.g., the ubiquitous 0.1 pin spacing), it is a very global industry, and metric mechanicals started creeping into electronic design at least 15 years ago. Today component and connector pin spacings are commonly metric (1 mm, 0.5 mm, etc.). Example: the D connector used on PCs is a horrendous connector (0.109 x 0.112 pin spacings, if memory serves), whereas the more recent USB connector was designed to hard metric dimensions (although the platings are still specified in microinches). In summary, I cannot point to substantial short-term savings by converting to metric. There were no substantial costs, either, but QSI is not a good example of where metricating saved us a lot of money. Jim Elwell
[USMA:17899] Re: the coming SI healthcare incident
If someone uses a teaspoon or tablespoon andoverdoses, then the pharmacist is responsible for the error. That would be an historic legal case, John, as to who is at fault in such an incident, and I'm sure the plaintiff would sue both the pharmacist and the doctor. The persistence of WOMBAT units in healthcare is pure habit, and, who knows? A landmark legal case (and, I'm sorry to say, it would take such a case to enact change) would change the prescribing and dispensing habits in the US, and thus change all those label directions to SI. A pharmacist should resist the temptation to use "teaspoons" and"tablespoons" to describe dosages and strictly use millilitres. You're quite correct. Part of that resistance would mean to use 5 mL as the volume, but to get into the hands of the caregiver a utensil to measure that 5 mL is a practice that has not yet become common, much less universal. Some pharmacy chains began to give out free medication spoons (those tubes which are calibrated in both millilitres and WOMBAT volume), but I don't know if they still do (I don't hunt in that jungle anymore GRIN). And as long as the public doesn't seemto mind the loss of a loved one, or paying more out of their pockets formedical care the situation will never change. Of course, if it happens, then we mourn. But we don't "mourn ahead of time". There always seems to be a US limit for the amount of preparedness we seek. We usually don't juxtapose measurement and tragedy, as was the case with that NASA spacecraft. So, it may take a high-profile legal case, like the one you suggested above. kilopascal wrote: 007001c1acdd$64f963a0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]"> 2002-02-03Paul,Last Tuesday, our parent company's insurance Manager came to visit us and todiscuss changes to our insurance policy. The letter sent out ahead of timelisted a variety of reasons why our insurance costs have increased 60 % overthe past year and why all our co-payments and deductibles must increase,while our coverage must decrease.I couldn't help think after reading your posting how much of those increasesare caused by paying off lawsuits brought on by wrongful deaths or injurypertaining to mis-applied drug dosages. It seems the government will donothing to intervene and demand consistency in measurements and standardsbecause of the perceived idea that it will be interfering in the industriesright to manage their own business. And as long as the public doesn't seemto mind the loss of a loved one, or paying more out of their pockets formedical care the situation will nev er change. Or is it the lawyers who makemillions on such cases telling the government not to change anything?A pharmacist should resist the temptation to use "teaspoons" and"tablespoons" to describe dosages and strictly use millilitres. Even if thepublic claims not to know it. If someone uses a teaspoon or tablespoon andoverdoses, then the pharmacist is responsible for the error. If thepharmacist gives the patient a dosage and even a cheap calibrated containerto administer that dose, and the patient chooses to use something else, thenthey are responsible.I'm tired of paying more for health care and getting less. And fearful thatsomeday I might go to a hospital for care or be given a prescription for adrug that is wrong and end up permanently injured or dead. I don't want itto be me. But, I'm just one person fighting a nation of luddites.Where do we go from here?John- Original Me ssage -From: "Paul Trusten" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "U.S. Metric Association" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 12:32Subject: [USMA:17894] the coming SI healthcare incident kilopascal wrote: Sometimes I will rub salt into the wound by inferring that those who claim to know FFU really don't and only parrot the unit names. A classic WOMBAT instance of this is the teaspoonful or the tablespoonful.. God knows what the parents of America use to measure their children'sliquid medication in response to directions of giving "one teaspoonful"or "one tablespoonful"! It could be a souvenir coffee spoon from Texas,or it could be a soup ladle. Healthcare is now in the spotlight foraccuracy, and medication errors are the hottest topic in healthcarethese past few years, but no one in officialdom has yet dealt with theelimination of non-metric units in healthcare. I suppose this is sobecause, in terms of publicity, there hasn't been a healthcareequivalent of the Mars Orbiter disaster.I have never asked the question of an individual, but if you were drillsomeone on "how much" a teaspoonful contains, the subject with realizethat
[USMA:17900] Re: Measurement in America
Bonjour, Marie-Ange! I have done a small amount of research into Native American astronomy and during that I encountered no indications of how quantities were specified. I suspect that they either did not bother to be very quantitative or that this is hard for us to find since their languages only rarely were written down. Native Americans had a very extensive trading system and elaborate trade routes, but their trading was probably done entirely face-to-face. What you see is what you get. Perhaps local units were developed, but there was almost certainly no standardization. I suspect that their counting systems were much like the pre-historic peoples of the Fertile Crescent and not very extensive. Their calendars were often fairly sophisticated however and rivaled first millenium in Europe, sometimes being even better. But even here, one would rarely have to count much past a few hundred. I have seen an explanation of the counting system of one of the Mesoamerican peoples and I don't recall it going past one thousand, if that far. Jim Marie-Ange Cotteret wrote: Dear All, I'm not too sure my question has its place on this list but I would like to know how the Indians of America used to measure, dimensions, wood, land ... before the European came into America ? Anyone could help me ? Best regards from Paris and many thanks Marie-Ange Cotteret -- Metric Methods(SM) Don't be late to metricate! James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:17901] Re: the coming SI healthcare incident
2002-02-03 I should have been more elaborate. What I meant to say is if the pharmacist's directions call for a "teaspoon", and the person administering the drug uses the wrong sized teaspoon causing a mis-dosage, the pharmacist can be held responsible. By being vague, the pharmacist puts himself at fault. If the pharmacist is specific in the dosage, but the user chooses to ignore the pharmacist, the pharmacist can not be held responsible. Of course, the user can sue anyway, but if the pharmacist has all his ducks in a row, then either his lawyers can get the case thrown out, or counter-sue the user for causing his own overdose by not following the instructions. The point is, the pharmacist can reduce blame on him/herself by being specific when stating doses. And as for dual labelled tubes, how easy would it be if the user read the wrong side and administered the wrong dose? This is also unacceptable. I don't even think a high profile legal case will bring about change. The dead can't sue to bring their life back. It is the victim's relatives that sue and they are satisfied with a financial settlement. I doubt anyone would sue to have laws passed to insist on measurement standards to prevent further deaths. If that were the case we would have such laws by now. And, you would also run the risk that opposers of standards would argue that there is no proof that such burdensome laws would prevent accidents anyway. Or, if we do have to standardise, why not on units the masses claim to understand, thus forcing the entire medical industry to use FFU entirely. That can happen too. So Paul, how do you help our cause when using measurements in front of your customers? John - Original Message - From: Paul Trusten To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 13:36 Subject: [USMA:17899] Re: the coming SI healthcare incident If someone uses a teaspoon or tablespoon andoverdoses, then the pharmacist is responsible for the error. That would be an historic legal case, John, as to who is at fault in such an incident, and I'm sure the plaintiff would sue both the pharmacist and the doctor. The persistence of WOMBAT units in healthcare is pure habit, and, who knows? A landmark legal case (and, I'm sorry to say, it would take such a case to enact change) would change the prescribing and dispensing habits in the US, and thus change all those label directions to SI. A pharmacist should resist the temptation to use "teaspoons" and"tablespoons" to describe dosages and strictly use millilitres. You're quite correct. Part of that resistance would mean to use 5 mL as the volume, but to get into the hands of the caregiver a utensil to measure that 5 mL is a practice that has not yet become common, much less universal. Some pharmacy chains began to give out free medication spoons (those tubes which are calibrated in both millilitres and WOMBAT volume), but I don't know if they still do (I don't hunt in that jungle anymore GRIN). And as long as the public doesn't seemto mind the loss of a loved one, or paying more out of their pockets formedical care the situation will never change. Of course, if it happens, then we mourn. But we don't "mourn ahead of time". There always seems to be a US limit for the amount of preparedness we seek. We usually don't juxtapose measurement and tragedy, as was the case with that NASA spacecraft. So, it may take a high-profile legal case, like the one you suggested above.
[USMA:17902] RE: Quantity
Those correspond, respectively, to the English amount and quantity, as I have always understood them. Grandeur (and, presumably, grootheid) can also be translated as size (although an almost equally common French term for size is taille). I guess the precise (or literal) French translation of grootheid would be grosseur (which is also a synonym for taille and grandeur). Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Han Maenen Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 05:47 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:17896] Quantity In the Netherlands we have the same distinction as in French, splitting the meaning of the English term 'quantity'. 1. French is 'grandeur', Dutch is 'grootheid'. The 'grootheid' of length is measured by the meter. 2. 'Quantité' in French, 'hoeveelheid' in Dutch. A 'hoeveelheid' of 100 L. Han
[USMA:17903] Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
Dear Jim and All, To add to Jim's scholarship on the matter of micron (mikron or mikrom?). I looked up my 1971 edition of 'The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary On Historical Principles'. It had two relevant entries 'mikrom' and 'micron, mikron' Mikrom 1898 Lord Kelvin 'Nature' 17 Nov 57/1 'Langley, fourteen years ago used ... the word 'mikron' to denote the millionth of a metre. The letter n has no place in the metrical system, and I venture to suggest a change of spelling to 'mikrom'. Micron, mikron 1892 Barker 'Physics' 15 Divided into thousandths of a millimetre; i.e. into microns 1898 Lord Kelvin in Rep. Brit. Assoc. 783 Measured wavelengths as great as 15 mikrons as radiant heat 1905 Brit. Med. Jrnl. 25 Feb 404 The lymphocytes showed all variation in size, from the smallest to some which were 15 microns in diameter. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS - Certified Advanced Metrication Specialist - United States Metric Association ASM - Accredited Speaking Member - National Speakers Association of Australia Member, International Federation for Professional Speakers -- on 2002/02/03 03.05, James R. Frysinger at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duncan Bath wrote: -Original Message- From: Pat Naughtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is a micron a nickname for micronewtons, mirolitres, micrometres, or micrograms? Good question. It answers mine! On second thought - does it? The micron was specific to length, was it not?. Yes, in 1948 the 9th CGPM declared, in Resolution 7, the micron's symbol to be the lowercase Greek letter mu, but the micron existed before then as a unit of length (not of mass, volume, or any other quantity). I do not find in the brochure a note on when the micron was first defined. The table accompanying the 1866 Act of Congress in the U.S. does not include the micron (the length table ranges from myriameter* down to millimeter) so that probably puts an early bound on its inception. My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary gives 1892 as the date it was first used and interestingly it was one year later that the Mendenhall Order was published. Jim * myriameter = 10 km = 10 000 m; myria was an old metric prefix for 10 000.
[USMA:17904] Re: Measurement in America
You'll find a lot of material in : Histoire universelle des chiffres (1994) de Georges Ifrah or in english : The Universal History of Numbers : From Prehistory to the Invention of the Computer -- Georges Ifrah, et al; Hardcover * The Universal History of Computing: From the Abacus to the Quantum Computer -- Georges Ifrah, E. F. Harding (Translator); Paperback * Universal History of Numbers : From Prehistory to the Invention of the Computer -- Georges Ifrah, David Bellos (Translator); Paperback Best regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com
[USMA:17906] FW: Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
Dear Jim, Joe, and All, I am resending this message as I have just noted that Lord Kelvin's suggestion of changing the spelling of mikron to mikrom includes a reference to 'Langley, fourteen years ago', which implies a creation date for mikron of about 1884. Who was Langley? I imagine that the dictionary writers would have tried to trace Lord Kelvin's reference. Cheers, Pat Naughtin Geelong, Australia -- Forwarded Message From: Pat Naughtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:31:18 +1100 To: James R. Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED], U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [USMA:17873] Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI) Dear Jim and All, To add to Jim's scholarship on the matter of micron (mikron or mikrom?). I looked up my 1971 edition of 'The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary On Historical Principles'. It had two relevant entries 'mikrom' and 'micron, mikron' Mikrom 1898 Lord Kelvin 'Nature' 17 Nov 57/1 'Langley, fourteen years ago used ... the word 'mikron' to denote the millionth of a metre. The letter n has no place in the metrical system, and I venture to suggest a change of spelling to 'mikrom'. Micron, mikron 1892 Barker 'Physics' 15 Divided into thousandths of a millimetre; i.e. into microns 1898 Lord Kelvin in Rep. Brit. Assoc. 783 Measured wavelengths as great as 15 mikrons as radiant heat 1905 Brit. Med. Jrnl. 25 Feb 404 The lymphocytes showed all variation in size, from the smallest to some which were 15 microns in diameter. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS - Certified Advanced Metrication Specialist - United States Metric Association ASM - Accredited Speaking Member - National Speakers Association of Australia Member, International Federation for Professional Speakers -- on 2002/02/03 03.05, James R. Frysinger at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duncan Bath wrote: -Original Message- From: Pat Naughtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is a micron a nickname for micronewtons, mirolitres, micrometres, or micrograms? Good question. It answers mine! On second thought - does it? The micron was specific to length, was it not?. Yes, in 1948 the 9th CGPM declared, in Resolution 7, the micron's symbol to be the lowercase Greek letter mu, but the micron existed before then as a unit of length (not of mass, volume, or any other quantity). I do not find in the brochure a note on when the micron was first defined. The table accompanying the 1866 Act of Congress in the U.S. does not include the micron (the length table ranges from myriameter* down to millimeter) so that probably puts an early bound on its inception. My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary gives 1892 as the date it was first used and interestingly it was one year later that the Mendenhall Order was published. Jim * myriameter = 10 km = 10 000 m; myria was an old metric prefix for 10 000. -- End of Forwarded Message
[USMA:17905] Re: Pat's new invention : 'Jadic'
Dear Paul and All, Yes, I'm sure that it has been done many times using many different names. I based my Jadic parody on one based on a Burgeson ( Jeremy W. Burgeson), but Smoot sounds nice too. Independently, and some time earlier, some of my friends mocked me (and my metric interests) in the mid 1970s by devising the patric system to parallel the metric system that I was heavily involved in disseminating at that time. The patric system seemed to be based on me personally, and it seemed that the basis of all comparisons were vulgar fractions that had the most arcane fractions possible - these usually included many prime numbers. For example a friend, Barry, claimed that his height was 23/19ths of a patric, but that his weight was only 13/17ths of a patric, and so on. I don't think that they ever canvassed the issue of time units however. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS - Certified Advanced Metrication Specialist - United States Metric Association ASM - Accredited Speaking Member - National Speakers Association of Australia Member, International Federation for Professional Speakers -- on 2002/02/03 08.26, Paul Trusten at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wasn't this done already, at MIT? The fellow's name was Smoot.
[USMA:17908] Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
Pat Naughtin wrote: Dear Jim and All, To add to Jim's scholarship on the matter of micron (mikron or mikrom?). I looked up my 1971 edition of 'The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary On Historical Principles'. It had two relevant entries 'mikrom' and 'micron, mikron' Mikrom 1898 Lord Kelvin 'Nature' 17 Nov 57/1 'Langley, fourteen years ago used ... the word 'mikron' to denote the millionth of a metre. The letter n has no place in the metrical system, and I venture to suggest a change of spelling to 'mikrom'. What is it about this citation that tickles me so? Where on Earth did Lord Kelvin (William Thompson, 1824/1907) come up with the notion that n has no place in the metrical system? Of course, nano had not yet been assigned. On the other hand, this is a possible link to micrometer, which is possibly why Lord Kelvin stated a preference for microm over micron, taking the last letter to be the symbol for meter. This then raised the question in my mind about micro as a prefix. Now that I have finished writing an interesting test for my students to enjoy taking tomorrow, I've spent a few minutes and have dug a little deeper. Here is what I have learned from Le Système Métrique by Henri Noreau (Chiron, Paris, 1975). I'll put the French first then my rough translation. This is from Tableau 6, Préfixes SI, footnote 2 and in case µ does not reproduce on your browser, it is the lowercase Greek letter mu: [quote:] Les préfixes méga et micro étaient déjà employés vers 1870 par les électriciens; ils furent officiellement adoptés en France par le décret sur les unités de mesure du 26 juillet 1919. Les mot micron (symbole µ), proposé en 1870-1872, fut adopté par le C.I.P.M. en 1879 pour désigner le millième de millimètre. Dupuis 1967, l'unité micron est supprimée; le symbole µ est réservé pour le préfixe micro et le millième de millimètre est maintenant désigné par micromètre, symbole µm. [end quote] [translation:] The prefixes mega and micro first came into being around 1870 for [the field of] electricity; they were officially adopted in France for multiples of the units of measure on 1919 July 26. The word micron (symbol µ), proposed in 1870/72, was adopted by the CIPM in 1879 as a designation for the thousandth part of a millimeter. Since 1967, the unit micron has been superseded; the symbol µ is reserved for the prefix micro and a thousandth of a millimeter is now named micrometer, symbol µ. [end translation, with my apologies to the people of France*] Jim * caveat: I refused -- as an exercise -- to let myself use a dictionary or translation program. -- Metric Methods(SM) Don't be late to metricate! James R. Frysinger, CAMS http://www.metricmethods.com/ 10 Captiva Row e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charleston, SC 29407 phone/FAX: 843.225.6789
[USMA:17909] I'm not crying for Argentina...
John, you're obviously a very intelligent fellow, but once again, we are polarizing Metric (and SI) into an issue of US patriotism vs. anti-Americanism. How we handle the Argentine economic crisiis, *if* we should we handle it, and, indeed, the USA's politcal track record overall are not germain to a +++metric+++ discussion list. I'm also a little tired, frankly, of the assertion by a number of us that our crass failure to metricate is part of an American agendum of global disobedience and nationalist spite. This is as idiotic as those trogs who believe that SI is a plot to destroy our identity as USAmericans...in fact, it's the same absurdity played backward. (Anyway, that's my 2 centimetres' worth) Randi
[USMA:17910] Re: USMA 17543
The USMA Newsleter (now Metric Today) was A4 size until the 1980 Nov-Dec issue, which was 8-1/2 x 11. No explanation was given... It's *not* a small issue to me... If we can't lead by example, we're hypocrites. If we use 216x279mm paper i/o ISO-A4, we're playing the same you first game as everyone else. Randi
[USMA:17911] Metric in american Industry
2002-02-03 About a week ago,I reported some findings on the use of metric in Texas. Also, I mentioned about my neighbour who works at Ford Motor company and claims metric is not used there. Pat Naughtin responded about metric in the auto plants in Australia. But, I want to know from anybody who has some contact with people, average Americans who work for any of the automobile companies in the US. And that would include companies like John Deere and Caterpillar who also are said to be metric. I want to know how Joe Six-pack, average American who has no clue as to what any of the metric units are is able to function is a supposed metric environment. How does my neighbour function in a supposed metric environment and yet claim they don't use metric where he is at? Is it the situation I experienced in Texas, where metric is everywhere and people manage to ignore it? I think one of the reasons there hasn't been much of a push to go metric is because it might be seen as decreasing American efficiency and increasing costs and aggravation. There may be cost savings in going metric, but many American's will see it as wasteful, especially if they have to waste time constantly converting every metric value back to FFU. I doubt they will ever try to learn and understand metric. Any answers? John
[USMA:17912] Re: metric in Texas
Hi, John, I'm resubscribed now, probably in honor of the Patriots (can't look!!), the other lost cause. Just came back to see how SI was doing, and, now being a Texan, Paul, Speaking of lost causes, maybe you've just had a good lesson in keeping the faith. g Nat Sun 22.05 ET
[USMA:17913] Re: FW: Re: Un-define non-SI (was RE: Voting for SI)
Pat Naughtin asked in USMA 17873: I am resending this message as I have just noted that Lord Kelvin's suggestion of changing the spelling of mikron to mikrom includes a reference to 'Langley, fourteen years ago', which implies a creation date for mikron of about 1884. Who was Langley? I imagine that the dictionary writers would have tried to trace Lord Kelvin's reference. There was a scientist by the name of langley at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington who spent years making a thoroughly scientific study of the problem of flight. He got as far as getting an airplane airborne, but not in free flight because it was running along a guide wire. Two bicycle mechanics in Akron, Ohio, were interested in the problem. They had no university education, and worked in inches and binary fractions therof, but they had very sound instincts. They built a wind tunnel to test their model airplanes and determined the horsepower that they needed and what was the maximum weight they could accept. They could find no motor manufacturer who would attempt to meet their specifications, so they built the motor themselves. They realized that they needed three axis-control, which Langley did not. They took their airplane to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, where there was a nice beach. They made they made the first free flight on December 17, 1903. The press was skeptical, but they had photographs to prove their claim. Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 TEL. 416-486-6071
[USMA:17915] Re: I'm not crying for Argentina..
Vectorsnrasterss wrote in USMA 17909: John, you're obviously a very intelligent fellow, but once again, we are polarizing Metric (and SI) into an issue of US patriotism vs. anti-Americanism. How we handle the Argentine economic crisiis, *if* we should we handle it, and, indeed, the USA's politcal track record overall are not germain to a +++metric+++ discussion list. I'm also a little tired, frankly, of the assertion by a number of us that our crass failure to metricate is part of an American agendum of global disobedience and nationalist spite. This is as idiotic as those trogs who believe that SI is a plot to destroy our identity as USAmericans...in fact, it's the same absurdity played backward. (Anyway, that's my 2 centimetres' worth) Randi Well said, Randi! Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 TEL. 416-486-6071
[USMA:17917] When and how to accommodate. Was: Re: Re: HP Deskjet
This is not the first time I have attempted to explain my position, which involves using ifp every now and then. I simply think that when I am a guest in another country I have to respect the customs of the people living there, even if that is FFU or ifp. Secondly I do not believe that antagonizing people in their own environment will help to spread the gospel, because the other way round I am antagonized when someone comes at me with FFU in my own or any other metric country. Why should the British react differently when I, a foreigner from a mainland European country, ask somebody in Harwich how far London is in kilometers? Yes, they are supposed to be metric, but in reality they are still not there, Britain being less metric than Ireland is. The 'Eurosceptic' atmosphere in Britain makes it even worse. Thirdly, I use what metric has really taken over, for instance the Celsius scale. I have never had to use the other scale there. More, if I am in one of these countries and somebody wants to know a distance in mainland Europe I give it in kilometers and explain the reason why. Whenever the opportunity arises I talk about metric and so try to spread the gospel. I try to make converts in my own way and I have made hits with it. This is also the reason why I respect the Wunderground weathersite (USA) and loathe and despise the Maporama travel site (France), although both have the same defaults and have to be personalized to get data in metric units. As long as I NEVER accommodate ifp users in any metric country I do not feel that I am harming the metric cause. I have adhered to these principles for many years. In 1974 I got my English teacher from the wrong track as I convinced her that the equasion English = ifp is wrong. She had expressed a distance in my own area in miles. English speaking people must spread the message in English speaking countries in the first place, we must hold the front in our own countries, but try to make converts where and whenever the opportunity arises, Han - Original Message - From: kilopascal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 18:01 Subject: [USMA:17892] Re: HP Deskjet 2002-02-03 snip I don't need to be like Han, speaking FFU in FFU countries and metric elsewhere. That is not spreading the gospel. Plus, the 2 countries that Han visits (Britain and Ireland) are suppose to be metric. So he should never have to use FFU, even on their soil. You have to take a stand somewhere. John - Original Message - From: Nat Hager III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 2002-02-03 11:10 Subject: [USMA:17890] HP Deskjet Had a little fun purchasing an HP deskjet printer yesterday. I needed the cheapest thing for home, since most of the time I just read things off the screen anyway. A friend advised me to go one step up, and get a model with a larger print cartridge so I'm not constantly paying for new print cartridges. Stopping by the local Office Depot on a busy Saturday morning I noticed a bunch of 845C printers all specifying, in fine print, a 25 ml print cartridge. Did I ever have fun drilling the salesman, in a loud voice, which model took the 25 ml cartridge and which step-up model took the 50 ml cartridge! Finally purchased a 940C. Nat
[USMA:17919] still a lot of ifp in Ireland
Although Ireland is supposed to be a metric country, fallen snow is still measured in inches and windspeeds are still measured in miles per hour. See below, Han Further wind and rain on the way today By Declan Fahy, Elaine Keogh and Anne Lucey Further strong winds and widespread rain are forecast by Met Éireann for many areas of the country today - with the possibility of further flooding. Drivers were last night urged by gardaí to be cautious, as severe frost was predicted for many areas last night. A period of heavy snowfall early yesterday morning - up to two inches on higher ground - made driving difficult in the west, the south, and in the midlands as what forecasters called a mini-depression crossed the country. A 34-year-old man died in a road accident near Ballinasloe, Co Galway, early yesterday morning. Gardaí say there was severe rain at the time. The man, named as Mr Sean Tully, Moylough, Ballinasloe, died in a head-on collision between two cars on the Moylough to Tuam Road at 3 a.m. Several sporting events were cancelled at the weekend. Punchestown racing was called off on Saturday and Sunday. All but one National Football League Division One GAA games were cancelled. Winds of between 60 and 75 m.p.h. are forecast for this morning, but conditions will generally not be as stormy as in recent days, said Met Éireann. Thundery showers were expected in the west. Weather conditions began to deteriorate at about 7 a.m. yesterday, with snow and sleet falling over a large area stretching from Kerry to the Cavan-Fermanagh Border. Difficult driving conditions were also experienced in Co Longford, Co Galway, Co Cavan, and parts of Co Roscommon, said AA Roadwatch. The snow had stopped by lunchtime, but roads remained wet as snow turned to slush. Parts of Co Galway and Co Clare also experienced snowfalls and localised flooding. Some roads in Dublin remained wet, but were suitable for driving, said AA Roadwatch. The ESB says power was returned to customers on Saturday night, but it is monitoring the situation, as high winds have been predicted. A spokesman for Dublin City Council said the city's major emergency plan, invoked on Friday, has been scaled down. Efforts are now concentrated on cleaning up and providing advice for people affected by the flood. Advice centres have been set up on Thorncastle Street, Ringsend, and at St Mary's Community College, East Wall. The city council urged people, especially residents of Stella Gardens, Ringsend, to return to their homes, as the ESB had to reconnect power. Roads around Killarney were dangerous and the Conor Pass between Tralee and Dingle was impassable early yesterday. The weekend flooding in Baltray, Co Louth, was the worst experienced in over 70 years, according to local residents. Ten elderly people were evacuated from their homes adjacent to the Boyne River at Baltray because of the rising waters. They were all accommodated at the Baltray Golf Club. Drogheda River Rescue, working at the request of the Irish Coastguard, and Drogheda Fire Brigade carried out the bulk of the evacuations using boats and a cruiser to ferry people away from the Boyne and Irish Sea as the flooding reached five feet in places. The Boyne is tidal and although the high winds and spring tide experienced on Friday were not repeated over the weekend, all the emergency services were on standby. The combination of wind and high tide swelled the river, resulting in flooding along the banks and of the Obelisk Bridge near the Battle of the Boyne site. In Drogheda, the major emergency action plan was activated on Friday because of the extent of the flooding, which came within inches of topping the main bridge in the town. Met Éireann's three-day forecast predicts a cool and breezy Monday night, with clear spells and showers. Tuesday will be cold and windy with bright spells and showers, some with hail or thunder. Wednesday will be another windy, showery day. It will be a lot colder though, with many of the showers turning wintry. © The Irish Times
